I don't want to get into religious discussions here (and all the semantics about what the prophet meant or not) but it's definitely not a dictate (ie required by the religious laws such as the Dastar). The Koran requires 'modesty' and gives guidance as to what modesty is. Nowhere does it say women HAVE to wear the hijab (or other more 'covering' apparel). Women (or the women's men) choose to interpret it that way. Which is absolutely fine. There have been a number of cases of women suing their employer for same reason but each time lost as it was not deemed to discriminate on religious grounds as it is not a specific religious requirement/law.
That's nonsense. The most eminent Islamic scholars for centuries have maintained that it is a religious requirement, and provided ample evidence using the Qur'an and hadith. The way you say that 'some choose to interpret it that way' while making your interpretation absolute and surely the correct one speaks volumes as to the knowledge you lack in Islamic law.
I also am not aware of any cases raised by hijabi women in Shari`ah courts that lost due to it not being a religious requirement. Perhaps you can shed some light for us.
I also am not aware of any cases raised by hijabi women in Shari`ah courts that lost due to it not being a religious requirement. Perhaps you can shed some light for us.
Since this thread is about a non-muslim country I was under the impression we were talking about the legal system of such country (eg US or even similar countries such as UK, France, etc.) Sharia courts will usually deal with civil cases only - within the community. They would not have any impact on lawsuits such as this one or the ones I have referred to.
Big fuckin deal !! who cares what hijab is...she should find her self a job that lets her where her ..hijab
and I don't want to hear about "it's religious thing" over half the people on this forum have stated that they don't believe a cross should be displayed on public property but wearing a ..jihab is o.k :? I'm calling bullshit !
with all the non believers on here that blame everything on religion all the sudden this jihab crap is o.k ? :problem:
Godfather.
Hmm...
A few thoughts:
1. You begin your post by basically declaring that you have no interest in learning where the grievance of someone else might stem from, and would rather speak from a position of ignorance as regards the topic of hijab.
2. You take a stance against her, but then make it incredibly apparent (so much so, I almost thought you were joking) that your opinion is completely reactionary, and stems from people's disagreement with public property displaying of the cross.
3. By not defending the analogy, it appears that you're speaking from a position of emotion rather than reason, which hurts your overall point.
4. It's "hijab" not "jihab." You spelled it correctly earlier in your post, but as it appears you are speaking from a position of rage, you seemed to have forgotten its correct spelling only a sentence or two below it. Misspelling something once can be a typo, twice is a clear disregard for accuracy, and considering that it is a five-letter word and the subject of what the dispute is about, I would hope you'd strive to at least try to gain some insight into the topic.
nice post fuck...very well worded and great attention to detail but as you said there is....some rage involved
because I as a guy that was born here I have to read and hear about people coming here and demanding this and that...it's real simple ..if they can't adjust their lives to a country they chose to come to for what ever reason then maybe they should just go back home, IT'S NOT UP TO ME/US TO HAVE TO ADJUST TO THEM..
they came here, learn the rules learn the language or go home.
....they don't believe a cross should be displayed ..
Taking this cross thing in this context, the discrimation cases (that I know of) brought against employers who 'banned' employees wearing a cross were lost by said employees. The courts deemed this banning was part of the dress code/uniform (eg. no jewellery except wedding band, only plain stud earrings, etc.) and not discriminating against one's religion. They also deemed that the dress code was part of the contract, signed by both parties, with the employees agreeing to the terms and conditions.
I'm going to side with Disney on ths one.
She was given all sorts of alternative options, to which she declined. Like, she can still wear the scarf... under the big Minnie Mouse head, right?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Big fuckin deal !! who cares what hijab is...she should find her self a job that lets her where her ..hijab
and I don't want to hear about "it's religious thing" over half the people on this forum have stated that they don't believe a cross should be displayed on public property but wearing a ..jihab is o.k :? I'm calling bullshit !
with all the non believers on here that blame everything on religion all the sudden this jihab crap is o.k ? :problem:
Godfather.
Hmm...
A few thoughts:
1. You begin your post by basically declaring that you have no interest in learning where the grievance of someone else might stem from, and would rather speak from a position of ignorance as regards the topic of hijab.
2. You take a stance against her, but then make it incredibly apparent (so much so, I almost thought you were joking) that your opinion is completely reactionary, and stems from people's disagreement with public property displaying of the cross.
3. By not defending the analogy, it appears that you're speaking from a position of emotion rather than reason, which hurts your overall point.
4. It's "hijab" not "jihab." You spelled it correctly earlier in your post, but as it appears you are speaking from a position of rage, you seemed to have forgotten its correct spelling only a sentence or two below it. Misspelling something once can be a typo, twice is a clear disregard for accuracy, and considering that it is a five-letter word and the subject of what the dispute is about, I would hope you'd strive to at least try to gain some insight into the topic.
nice post fuck...very well worded and great attention to detail but as you said there is....some rage involved
because I as a guy that was born here I have to read and hear about people coming here and demanding this and that...it's real simple ..if they can't adjust their lives to a country they chose to come to for what ever reason then maybe they should just go back home, IT'S NOT UP TO ME/US TO HAVE TO ADJUST TO THEM..
they came here, learn the rules learn the language or go home.
Godfather.
I completely agree. It seems more and more we seem to defend other people's traditions while our own gets washed down the drain. I'm all for equal rights, but i think its better to help people adjust to our society, not our society adjust for them
Didn't the Borgata and some other casinos get around their weight restrictions for cocktail servers by hiring them as "entertainers?" I think the Borgata suit settled out of court. I would imagine that Disney characters would or could fall into the same category.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Didn't the Borgata and some other casinos get around their weight restrictions for cocktail servers by hiring them as "entertainers?" I think the Borgata suit settled out of court. I would imagine that Disney characters would or could fall into the same category.
...
She was given the option of wearing one of those bonnets over her traditional head scarf... she declined. She was given the opportunity to work behind the scenes, in which case, she could wear the head scarf... she declined.
She went in looking for a fight.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Didn't the Borgata and some other casinos get around their weight restrictions for cocktail servers by hiring them as "entertainers?" I think the Borgata suit settled out of court. I would imagine that Disney characters would or could fall into the same category.
...
She was given the option of wearing one of those bonnets over her traditional head scarf... she declined. She was given the opportunity to work behind the scenes, in which case, she could wear the head scarf... she declined.
She went in looking for a fight.
I'm not arguing that, but I would imagine if she was hired as a character, Disney could classify her as an entertainer and get around whatever legal protections there may be.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
...
She was given the option of wearing one of those bonnets over her traditional head scarf... she declined. She was given the opportunity to work behind the scenes, in which case, she could wear the head scarf... she declined.
She went in looking for a fight.
I'm not arguing that, but I would imagine if she was hired as a character, Disney could classify her as an entertainer and get around whatever legal protections there may be.
...
You are absolutely right. I can't go to Disneyland and apply for the job as Snow White, then claim discrimination for them not hiring me. They can offer me the job as Goofy (which is more fitting) and if I decline, it is my choice.
As for this gal, she was working 'on stage'. Even the people working the shops on Main Street have to dress as if they were in the late 1800s/early 1900s (except there was clean running water and washing machines). If she workd behind the scenes, like on the recieving docks, parking lot, kitchen... out of view of the paying public... she could wear her head scarf with the company supplied uniform.
It really sounds like she has a beef with Disney, in general, and is trying to make it about race/culture.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
She was given the option of wearing one of those bonnets over her traditional head scarf... she declined. She was given the opportunity to work behind the scenes, in which case, she could wear the head scarf... she declined.
She went in looking for a fight.
I'm not arguing that, but I would imagine if she was hired as a character, Disney could classify her as an entertainer and get around whatever legal protections there may be.
...
You are absolutely right. I can't go to Disneyland and apply for the job as Snow White, then claim discrimination for them not hiring me. They can offer me the job as Goofy (which is more fitting) and if I decline, it is my choice.
As for this gal, she was working 'on stage'. Even the people working the shops on Main Street have to dress as if they were in the late 1800s/early 1900s (except there was clean running water and washing machines). If she workd behind the scenes, like on the recieving docks, parking lot, kitchen... out of view of the paying public... she could wear her head scarf with the company supplied uniform.
It really sounds like she has a beef with Disney, in general, and is trying to make it about race/culture.
Yep - if you're applying for the role of a character, you have to fit the role of the character. It would be a whole different story if she were working in some other capacity. It sounds like they tried to make accommodations, I would hope with similar pay and hours. I would be fantastic in the role of one of the 7 dwarves btw
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Some of this shit in this country is mind boggling. It truly is to me. :fp:
And to me. I love how people have no problem beating there chests and screaming about freedoms of the constitution. All gung-ho war pigs, but the first minute an American citizen (who happens to look different then you) decides to use it, you guys come shitting down on them. It's like that quote some singer once said. "everyone in America has the right to freedom of speech, until they decide to use it." Or in this case, freedom of religion/religious expression. Not all Muslims are bad, Jesus, what's the point of laughing at or poking fun of this story? Maybe some of the people in America need to step outside there own eyes and see the world through the eyes of someone else. We should stop this holier than thou persona. All empires fall, look back at Rome & Egypt. What's wrong with peace love and understanding.....I'm not bashing anyone directly cause most people on the forum are genuinely awesome folks. The shit you people do for strangers in here is incredible, mind boggling at times. Makes me proud to be a member.....now let's turn and do for people outside the forum.
If I had a face tatoo I can't reasonably expect to work at Disney either. Disney is a business. If you don;t conform to their standards...move on. A person has the right to choose their own employment.
isn't this discriminating against her? what's next disney will ban people wearing anything linked with a religion.. it's madness. she has got a case and would probably win.
So wrong and it's funny actually.
Lets break it down to simple terms...you apply to Burger King. Burger King requires you for the job to wear a Burger King hat. You choose to wear your religious head dress instead...that's great...go for it and do it. Don't expect Burker King to change their policy or business model for you. You have the freedom here to go seek employment where ever you want.
I'm assuming you're not muslim.. you would be outraged if your employer told you couldn't go to church on sunday's as you have to work.. or restricted your religion somehow? so why not put yourself in her shoes.. she is being discriminated against based on her religion pure and simple..
My beliefs are I should be able to sleep in on Saturdays. Unfortunately my job doesn't allow that. I am free however to seek other employment that doesn't require working on Saturdays. :fp:
isn't this discriminating against her? what's next disney will ban people wearing anything linked with a religion.. it's madness.
No it's not. If it is clearly a requirement of the job and serves a purpose. It is her choice. They have strict dress codes (including how you can have your hair done) in order to agree to work there. They aren't the only ones. And it makes sense.
Are you one of the people that are going to sue Hooters so that dudes can be waiters there?
I wouldn't sue anyone for almost anything so no.. but hooters is kinda discriminating there also
...and yet the people that work there don;t have to work there...and the people that go there don't have to go there.
you have some pretty good points there I won't argue it any further but I think unless they prove her job is unsafe wearing this she will win..
Yeah, I disagree. I think their willingness to accommodate a different "costume" (the hat) for her, the willingness to accommodate her in a different role "behind stage", and the long history of Disney enforcing these policies with everyone in order to protect their product and their brand....all that and I think it's a slam dunk for Disney.
Why wasn't this addressed when she was interviewed / hired?
Either she should've made it known it was a requirement for her (assume she went to the interview with it on or at the very least mentioned its importance?), or they should've made their stance clear.
Pretty much spelled out in the article.
"Boudlal had worked at the resort for two and a half years, but only realized she could wear her hijab to work after studying for her U.S. citizenship exam.
She became a citizen in June 2010, and decided to challenge the Disney dress code a couple months later, on August 15."
I think I'll wear crotchless pants to work tomorrow. It wasn't spelled out in my interview. I believe it's my right to wear them.
Comments
I also am not aware of any cases raised by hijabi women in Shari`ah courts that lost due to it not being a religious requirement. Perhaps you can shed some light for us.
because I as a guy that was born here I have to read and hear about people coming here and demanding this and that...it's real simple ..if they can't adjust their lives to a country they chose to come to for what ever reason then maybe they should just go back home, IT'S NOT UP TO ME/US TO HAVE TO ADJUST TO THEM..
they came here, learn the rules learn the language or go home.
Godfather.
Taking this cross thing in this context, the discrimation cases (that I know of) brought against employers who 'banned' employees wearing a cross were lost by said employees. The courts deemed this banning was part of the dress code/uniform (eg. no jewellery except wedding band, only plain stud earrings, etc.) and not discriminating against one's religion. They also deemed that the dress code was part of the contract, signed by both parties, with the employees agreeing to the terms and conditions.
I would have thought this case would be similar.
She was given all sorts of alternative options, to which she declined. Like, she can still wear the scarf... under the big Minnie Mouse head, right?
Hail, Hail!!!
I completely agree. It seems more and more we seem to defend other people's traditions while our own gets washed down the drain. I'm all for equal rights, but i think its better to help people adjust to our society, not our society adjust for them
Godfather.
I think I just stumbled upon a great T-shirt idea.
Godfather.
You should market those shirts to the people in Afghanistan and Iraq. You'd have a hit... seriously.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yeah, man, xenophobia rules! Holla!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
She was given the option of wearing one of those bonnets over her traditional head scarf... she declined. She was given the opportunity to work behind the scenes, in which case, she could wear the head scarf... she declined.
She went in looking for a fight.
Hail, Hail!!!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
You are absolutely right. I can't go to Disneyland and apply for the job as Snow White, then claim discrimination for them not hiring me. They can offer me the job as Goofy (which is more fitting) and if I decline, it is my choice.
As for this gal, she was working 'on stage'. Even the people working the shops on Main Street have to dress as if they were in the late 1800s/early 1900s (except there was clean running water and washing machines). If she workd behind the scenes, like on the recieving docks, parking lot, kitchen... out of view of the paying public... she could wear her head scarf with the company supplied uniform.
It really sounds like she has a beef with Disney, in general, and is trying to make it about race/culture.
Hail, Hail!!!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Giddyup!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
If I had a face tatoo I can't reasonably expect to work at Disney either.
Lets break it down to simple terms...you apply to Burger King. Burger King requires you for the job to wear a Burger King hat. You choose to wear your religious head dress instead...that's great...go for it and do it. Don't expect Burker King to change their policy or business model for you. You have the freedom here to go seek employment where ever you want.
My beliefs are I should be able to sleep in on Saturdays. Unfortunately my job doesn't allow that. I am free however to seek other employment that doesn't require working on Saturdays.
...and yet the people that work there don;t have to work there...and the people that go there don't have to go there.
+1
Pretty much spelled out in the article.
"Boudlal had worked at the resort for two and a half years, but only realized she could wear her hijab to work after studying for her U.S. citizenship exam.
She became a citizen in June 2010, and decided to challenge the Disney dress code a couple months later, on August 15."
I think I'll wear crotchless pants to work tomorrow. It wasn't spelled out in my interview. I believe it's my right to wear them.
Really
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Cutting as I type this!
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Holla !
Godfather.