Interesting Article - Norway/Taxes/Hard Work

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  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    That's crazy taing people that much, even crazier is people think the government has your best interest at heart.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,305
    polaris_x wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    You can't control the logistics of where ancient plant life and dinosaurs decided to reside. ;)

    I'll start warming the drilling rigs up ... we need to build the infrastructure first to allow this uber-society to begin. 8-)

    remember - you gotta do that while reducing your greenhouse gases to 30% below 1990 levels and power your country with 50% renewables ... ;)
    The downside is that when the US goes from importing 55% of its required oil to exporting an amount equal to 25% of its GDP, the price of oil will plummet to historic lows. The entire world economy would crumble. Countries like Norway would be financially wiped out and suffer record unemployment and austerity measures.

    It would be bad ... human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Easy, no one has any money to go out to eat, so no one drives anywhere. DONE!!! :lol:

    haha ... i just got back from sweden where shit is expensive (relatively) but the swedes don't care if you're a tourist and can't afford it ... they all have a high standard of living and are comfortable ... the swedes tell me norway is twice as expensive ... :o ... either way - i'm pretty sure not too many of them would want to swap with america or canada for that matter ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    The downside is that when the US goes from importing 55% of its required oil to exporting an amount equal to 25% of its GDP, the price of oil will plummet to historic lows. The entire world economy would crumble. Countries like Norway would be financially wiped out and suffer record unemployment and austerity measures.

    It would be bad ... human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

    :lol:
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,836
    polaris_x wrote:
    either way - i'm pretty sure not too many of them would want to swap with america or canada for that matter ...


    That's just their stupid nationalistic pride getting in the way of common sense!!! :lol:
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,836
    To tell you the truth, I wish it was easy to live a few lifetimes in different places and really see what is the best for ME. That's the thing, people are so different, I'm not sure why we argue what is the best situation, cause it varies so greatly per person.

    Some people can't live without sunshine and a beach. Others like the mountains and snow....same goes for political and economical setups.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    To tell you the truth, I wish it was easy to live a few lifetimes in different places and really see what is the best for ME. That's the thing, people are so different, I'm not sure why we argue what is the best situation, cause it varies so greatly per person.

    Some people can't live without sunshine and a beach. Others like the mountains and snow....same goes for political and economical setups.

    your capitalized portion says it all ... why america fails is because everyone is only out for themselves ... the difference in these other countries is that there is a far greater social collective in belief and values ... whatever system is implemented - it will have a far greater chance of success if everyone buys into it ... america is divided in so many ways now - it's pretty crazy that a country can't bring itself to believe in like one or two things ... pretty much every issue that has global implications is divisive in america ...
  • MotoDC
    MotoDC Posts: 947
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Traveling has nothing to do with it in the case of this article. He's talking about taxes and economics. Although he mentions the happy factor, he can't get past the taxes they pay which to me, screams an American capitalist bent on individual status and achievement.
    Quite a bit of the "article" is about the culture vis a vis the happiness level of Norwegian. It's far from scientific, to say the least, but in this sense I think it has a lot to do with the travel concept from other threads.

    I notice no one has responded to mikepegg's post. Everyone likes to point to Norwegian's model as proof that socialism works, but relying on being the 3rd biggest oil exporter to support that model is quite a fucking caveat.

    Of course some of us oppose socialistic concepts on philosophical grounds, not just practical, but that's not what this thread is about.
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    I have no interest in living in a country in which I have to surrender that much of my pay to the government. I thought Canadian taxes were bad...that's out and out and ridiculous...but if their happy and believe their interest are taken care of good for them.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    polaris_x wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    To tell you the truth, I wish it was easy to live a few lifetimes in different places and really see what is the best for ME. That's the thing, people are so different, I'm not sure why we argue what is the best situation, cause it varies so greatly per person.

    Some people can't live without sunshine and a beach. Others like the mountains and snow....same goes for political and economical setups.

    your capitalized portion says it all ... why america fails is because everyone is only out for themselves ... the difference in these other countries is that there is a far greater social collective in belief and values ... whatever system is implemented - it will have a far greater chance of success if everyone buys into it ... america is divided in so many ways now - it's pretty crazy that a country can't bring itself to believe in like one or two things ... pretty much every issue that has global implications is divisive in america ...

    America doesn't fail...it is still a great place to live

    What happens when Norway runs out of oil?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • MotoDC
    MotoDC Posts: 947
    polaris_x wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    To tell you the truth, I wish it was easy to live a few lifetimes in different places and really see what is the best for ME. That's the thing, people are so different, I'm not sure why we argue what is the best situation, cause it varies so greatly per person.

    Some people can't live without sunshine and a beach. Others like the mountains and snow....same goes for political and economical setups.

    your capitalized portion says it all ... why america fails is because everyone is only out for themselves ... the difference in these other countries is that there is a far greater social collective in belief and values ..
    Sigh. It should be obvious, but I'll post a counter-link anyway:
    http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/americ ... eaves.html

    That article shouldn't be news to anyone; I think it's pretty common knowledge. However it seems even common knowledge is sometimes overlooked.

    In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    America doesn't fail...it is still a great place to live

    What happens when Norway runs out of oil?

    america is a great place to live if you ignore the conditions by which it got there ...

    Norway knows that oil is a dying resource ... but you're talking about looong term planning here ... they are diversifying their economy but at the end of the day - we're talking 50+ years from now ... who can predict what's gonna happen 2 years from now ...

    at the end of the day ... places like norway succeed because they act as a collective ... they played the cards that were dealt them and that's really it ..
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    MotoDC wrote:
    Sigh. It should be obvious, but I'll post a counter-link anyway:
    http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/americ ... eaves.html

    That article shouldn't be news to anyone; I think it's pretty common knowledge. However it seems even common knowledge is sometimes overlooked.

    In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.

    uhhh ... where do i say their giving is morally superior!?

    norway does have a choice - they are democratic society ... norway has right wing parties like any other country that would cut taxes, cut services and privatize institutions ... in fact, centre-right gov'ts have been in place in the past decades ... the difference is where the centre is in the political spectrum ...
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    MotoDC wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Traveling has nothing to do with it in the case of this article. He's talking about taxes and economics. Although he mentions the happy factor, he can't get past the taxes they pay which to me, screams an American capitalist bent on individual status and achievement.
    Quite a bit of the "article" is about the culture vis a vis the happiness level of Norwegian. It's far from scientific, to say the least, but in this sense I think it has a lot to do with the travel concept from other threads.

    I notice no one has responded to mikepegg's post. Everyone likes to point to Norwegian's model as proof that socialism works, but relying on being the 3rd biggest oil exporter to support that model is quite a fucking caveat.

    Of course some of us oppose socialistic concepts on philosophical grounds, not just practical, but that's not what this thread is about.

    I don't know enough about Norway's oil situation to comment. I have to wonder though, if they're far ahead of the U.S. when it comes to renewables though, since Europe in general are far ahead....

    Actually, this thread is about your last sentence. The author can't get away from his individualistic attitude about Norway, and that's why he doesn't have much good to say about them. He clearly has issues with socialism.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    MotoDC wrote:

    In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.

    Everyone has a choice in where they choose to live, unless they are being held captive...
  • MotoDC
    MotoDC Posts: 947
    polaris_x wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    America doesn't fail...it is still a great place to live

    What happens when Norway runs out of oil?

    america is a great place to live if you ignore the conditions by which it got there ...
    Causation is a tricky beast. So...what exactly are the conditions that got us where we are? And did you just say that america is a great place to live? Or was that just a convenient excuse to juxtapose it with something from our past?
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Jeanwah wrote:
    MotoDC wrote:

    In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.

    Everyone has a choice in where they choose to live, unless they are being held captive...

    I really doubt the vast majority can just pick up and move to another country.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,305
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Everyone has a choice in where they choose to live, unless they are being held captive...
    Not really. Most top-tier countries have strict rules and limits on a length of stay. Some are very oppressive and hard or impossible to visit.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • MotoDC
    MotoDC Posts: 947
    Jeanwah wrote:
    MotoDC wrote:

    In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.

    Everyone has a choice in where they choose to live, unless they are being held captive...
    As I noted in the post you quoted, obviously expatriation is an option. While of course it does happen, how realistic an option is that? We're not talking about moving from NY to NJ, we're talking about ripping up family roots, learning a new language, culture, professional environment. It falls in the category of "choice", but to discuss it as if it's as simple as picking your socks in the morning isn't very sincere.

    The point is that, given the other barriers to expatriation, I don't think a choice not to expatriate is tantamount to "choosing" to continue paying into Norway's system.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    I was just thinking about how most American Indian communities were a lot like this- "socialist" in a way. Everyone had pretty much the same stuff. Everyone pretty much had their roll, their job. Most of them found places to live where the earth provided what they needed. Everyone was pretty much happy. Not all, but most. I think a big reason we in our society can't fathom these ideas is because our way of living allows us to work and plan and scheme to get more stuff. But does that "more stuff" make us happier? Don't get me wrong- I'm as addicted to this life style as everyone- we were born into it. But I certainly can imagine living differently.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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