To tell you the truth, I wish it was easy to live a few lifetimes in different places and really see what is the best for ME. That's the thing, people are so different, I'm not sure why we argue what is the best situation, cause it varies so greatly per person.
Some people can't live without sunshine and a beach. Others like the mountains and snow....same goes for political and economical setups.
your capitalized portion says it all ... why america fails is because everyone is only out for themselves ... the difference in these other countries is that there is a far greater social collective in belief and values ..
That article shouldn't be news to anyone; I think it's pretty common knowledge. However it seems even common knowledge is sometimes overlooked.
In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.
America doesn't fail...it is still a great place to live
What happens when Norway runs out of oil?
america is a great place to live if you ignore the conditions by which it got there ...
Norway knows that oil is a dying resource ... but you're talking about looong term planning here ... they are diversifying their economy but at the end of the day - we're talking 50+ years from now ... who can predict what's gonna happen 2 years from now ...
at the end of the day ... places like norway succeed because they act as a collective ... they played the cards that were dealt them and that's really it ..
That article shouldn't be news to anyone; I think it's pretty common knowledge. However it seems even common knowledge is sometimes overlooked.
In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.
uhhh ... where do i say their giving is morally superior!?
norway does have a choice - they are democratic society ... norway has right wing parties like any other country that would cut taxes, cut services and privatize institutions ... in fact, centre-right gov'ts have been in place in the past decades ... the difference is where the centre is in the political spectrum ...
Traveling has nothing to do with it in the case of this article. He's talking about taxes and economics. Although he mentions the happy factor, he can't get past the taxes they pay which to me, screams an American capitalist bent on individual status and achievement.
Quite a bit of the "article" is about the culture vis a vis the happiness level of Norwegian. It's far from scientific, to say the least, but in this sense I think it has a lot to do with the travel concept from other threads.
I notice no one has responded to mikepegg's post. Everyone likes to point to Norwegian's model as proof that socialism works, but relying on being the 3rd biggest oil exporter to support that model is quite a fucking caveat.
Of course some of us oppose socialistic concepts on philosophical grounds, not just practical, but that's not what this thread is about.
I don't know enough about Norway's oil situation to comment. I have to wonder though, if they're far ahead of the U.S. when it comes to renewables though, since Europe in general are far ahead....
Actually, this thread is about your last sentence. The author can't get away from his individualistic attitude about Norway, and that's why he doesn't have much good to say about them. He clearly has issues with socialism.
In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.
Everyone has a choice in where they choose to live, unless they are being held captive...
America doesn't fail...it is still a great place to live
What happens when Norway runs out of oil?
america is a great place to live if you ignore the conditions by which it got there ...
Causation is a tricky beast. So...what exactly are the conditions that got us where we are? And did you just say that america is a great place to live? Or was that just a convenient excuse to juxtapose it with something from our past?
In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.
Everyone has a choice in where they choose to live, unless they are being held captive...
I really doubt the vast majority can just pick up and move to another country.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.
Everyone has a choice in where they choose to live, unless they are being held captive...
As I noted in the post you quoted, obviously expatriation is an option. While of course it does happen, how realistic an option is that? We're not talking about moving from NY to NJ, we're talking about ripping up family roots, learning a new language, culture, professional environment. It falls in the category of "choice", but to discuss it as if it's as simple as picking your socks in the morning isn't very sincere.
The point is that, given the other barriers to expatriation, I don't think a choice not to expatriate is tantamount to "choosing" to continue paying into Norway's system.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,423
I was just thinking about how most American Indian communities were a lot like this- "socialist" in a way. Everyone had pretty much the same stuff. Everyone pretty much had their roll, their job. Most of them found places to live where the earth provided what they needed. Everyone was pretty much happy. Not all, but most. I think a big reason we in our society can't fathom these ideas is because our way of living allows us to work and plan and scheme to get more stuff. But does that "more stuff" make us happier? Don't get me wrong- I'm as addicted to this life style as everyone- we were born into it. But I certainly can imagine living differently.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Causation is a tricky beast. So...what exactly are the conditions that got us where we are? And did you just say that america is a great place to live? Or was that just a convenient excuse to juxtapose it with something from our past?
great is subjective ... i simply responded to someone else belief that it is great ...
do i think it's great!? ... not really ... some spots are indeed great but overall - i think no ... but that's me ...
are people really saying that norwegians are living in some kind of trap and that they really don't want to live in a socialist state and the only reason they do so is because they are forced to!???
are people really saying that norwegians are living in some kind of trap and that they really don't want to live in a socialist state and the only reason they do so is because they are forced to!???
don't know about whether the norwegians want to leave or not...but the vast majority of the people in this world can not pick up and go. they are essentially forced to live within the system they are born. What I want to know is what gives politicians the right to determine our path? is their really any true democracies left in this world? and I don't consider voting every four years a democracy? that's voting a dictator in every 4 years!!!
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Speaking as someone who has family that live in Norway... aunts, uncles and many cousins... and as someone who visited Norway last year, including Bergen, where this article was written from...
Norway IS a paradise, except for the weather part of it But the weather I could deal with. The summers there are actually ideal. It is orderly, peaceful, and all of the buildings there are aesthetically charming. Bergen in particular is one of the most beautiful cities I've seen. I hope to own an apartment there someday, no matter how small.
I did unfortunately see some creeping Americanism in the city of Kristiansand, which is on the south coast of Norway. There was a McDonald's built into an old bank. Still better than the ugly ass McDonalds that litter the American landscape. Funny thing is there are very few restaurants in Norway. They all have huge freezers and walk in refrigerated pantries. They eat very well there and don't waste much food.
Shops do tend to close early in Norway. They like to spend time at home with their families. Silly Norwegians... :roll:
Every day I see happy faces from Norway in my Facebook feed.... they never bitch about anything, unlike a lot of my fellow Americans I'm connected with. My family would not have the same quality of life in they lived here in America. They aren't rich, and they don't need to be to have a great life, unlike here. I plan to spend my golden years there, and be buried in the land my mother was born in.... or perhaps have my body burned in a Viking funeral pyre.
I was just thinking about how most American Indian communities were a lot like this- "socialist" in a way. Everyone had pretty much the same stuff. Everyone pretty much had their roll, their job. Most of them found places to live where the earth provided what they needed. Everyone was pretty much happy. Not all, but most. I think a big reason we in our society can't fathom these ideas is because our way of living allows us to work and plan and scheme to get more stuff. But does that "more stuff" make us happier? Don't get me wrong- I'm as addicted to this life style as everyone- we were born into it. But I certainly can imagine living differently.
I did a sociology paper a while ago about the "American Dream" and happiness. (And no, happiness does not come owning "stuff") What I found was an interview with Danish teenagers and a question asked of them: Why is Denmark the happiest of countries? What can Americans do to increase their happiness? One kid answered simply, Expect less and you'd be more happy. That's it in a nutshell.
are people really saying that norwegians are living in some kind of trap and that they really don't want to live in a socialist state and the only reason they do so is because they are forced to!???
don't know about whether the norwegians want to leave or not...but the vast majority of the people in this world can not pick up and go. they are essentially forced to live within the system they are born. What I want to know is what gives politicians the right to determine our path? is their really any true democracies left in this world? and I don't consider voting every four years a democracy? that's voting a dictator in every 4 years!!!
See, I don't agree with this. As Nate Fisher, Jr. said: "I'm just saying, you only get one life. There's...no rules, no judgements except for those you accept or create for yourself, and once it's over, it's over. Dreamless sleep forever and ever. So why not be happy while you're here, really, why not?"
No one is being kept in their country by force unless they live as a slave to dictatorship or they're in jail. We all have choices, and we all create our own rules to live by. If you don't like Norway, leave. No one in Norway is forced to live within their system last time I checked.
are people really saying that norwegians are living in some kind of trap and that they really don't want to live in a socialist state and the only reason they do so is because they are forced to!???
don't know about whether the norwegians want to leave or not...but the vast majority of the people in this world can not pick up and go. they are essentially forced to live within the system they are born. What I want to know is what gives politicians the right to determine our path? is their really any true democracies left in this world? and I don't consider voting every four years a democracy? that's voting a dictator in every 4 years!!!
See, I don't agree with this. As Nate Fisher, Jr. said: "I'm just saying, you only get one life. There's...no rules, no judgements except for those you accept or create for yourself, and once it's over, it's over. Dreamless sleep forever and ever. So why not be happy while you're here, really, why not?"
No one is being kept in their country by force unless they live as a slave to dictatorship or they're in jail. We all have choices, and we all create our own rules to live by. If you don't like Norway, leave. No one in Norway is forced to live within their system last time I checked.
Are people under the impression that you can just load your crap in a U-Haul and move to another country?
To tell you the truth, I wish it was easy to live a few lifetimes in different places and really see what is the best for ME. That's the thing, people are so different, I'm not sure why we argue what is the best situation, cause it varies so greatly per person.
Some people can't live without sunshine and a beach. Others like the mountains and snow....same goes for political and economical setups.
your capitalized portion says it all ... why america fails is because everyone is only out for themselves ... the difference in these other countries is that there is a far greater social collective in belief and values ... whatever system is implemented - it will have a far greater chance of success if everyone buys into it ... america is divided in so many ways now - it's pretty crazy that a country can't bring itself to believe in like one or two things ... pretty much every issue that has global implications is divisive in america ...
Ah, so you disagree that people are different then and want different things? Or you just think everyone should think like you?
Ah, so you disagree that people are different then and want different things? Or you just think everyone should think like you?
ok ... let me try another way ...
if you are playing a team sport - which team will have more success? ... one that is full of individuals with individual goals and priorities or one that is working towards a common objective?
Ah, so you disagree that people are different then and want different things? Or you just think everyone should think like you?
ok ... let me try another way ...
if you are playing a team sport - which team will have more success? ... one that is full of individuals with individual goals and priorities or one that is working towards a common objective?
Depends on the talent level. Also depends on the goal/reward.
don't know about whether the norwegians want to leave or not...but the vast majority of the people in this world can not pick up and go. they are essentially forced to live within the system they are born. What I want to know is what gives politicians the right to determine our path? is their really any true democracies left in this world? and I don't consider voting every four years a democracy? that's voting a dictator in every 4 years!!!
See, I don't agree with this. As Nate Fisher, Jr. said: "I'm just saying, you only get one life. There's...no rules, no judgements except for those you accept or create for yourself, and once it's over, it's over. Dreamless sleep forever and ever. So why not be happy while you're here, really, why not?"
No one is being kept in their country by force unless they live as a slave to dictatorship or they're in jail. We all have choices, and we all create our own rules to live by. If you don't like Norway, leave. No one in Norway is forced to live within their system last time I checked.
Are people under the impression that you can just load your crap in a U-Haul and move to another country?
Apparently some people think that's all you need to do.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Ah, so you disagree that people are different then and want different things? Or you just think everyone should think like you?
ok ... let me try another way ...
if you are playing a team sport - which team will have more success? ... one that is full of individuals with individual goals and priorities or one that is working towards a common objective?
As far as I'm concerned socialism will only work if the extreme vast majority is committed to the concept...that includes all sectors of society, ie. medical professionals, politicians, teachers, business people etc., etc..
I doubt in NA that you can get enough people committed to the concept to make it work. Heck the 1 big socialist program we got, health care is crumbling as I type this...so I see no evidence that socialism works. I used to be a big supporter of our health care, I'll never say another positive thing about it. I had to dig into my own pockets to pay for for surgery because I didn't want to wait another 6-9 months for the surgery after waiting 6 months just to see a surgeon...the shame of it is the fact that premier dad introduced a health care tax 9 years to improve health care...didn't happen...all that money that has been stolen off my pay I could have used for my treatment...so I see no evidence of socialism working when we can't even get decent socialist health care.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
are people really saying that norwegians are living in some kind of trap and that they really don't want to live in a socialist state and the only reason they do so is because they are forced to!???
don't know about whether the norwegians want to leave or not...but the vast majority of the people in this world can not pick up and go. they are essentially forced to live within the system they are born. What I want to know is what gives politicians the right to determine our path? is their really any true democracies left in this world? and I don't consider voting every four years a democracy? that's voting a dictator in every 4 years!!!
Referendums...how can anyone trust politicians to make major decisions for the country, province or municipality thinking that they have the people's best interest at heart? The right to recall! We should be able to recall politicians. Term limits 6 years. Elections every 3 years.
I have no problem with politicians running the day to day business of the country...but all major decisions like trade, pipelines, raising taxes etc..should go to the people.
I feel term limits and elections might held politicians more accoutable. I realize this would cost more but maybe less in the long run.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Speaking as someone who has family that live in Norway... aunts, uncles and many cousins... and as someone who visited Norway last year, including Bergen, where this article was written from...
Norway IS a paradise, except for the weather part of it But the weather I could deal with. The summers there are actually ideal. It is orderly, peaceful, and all of the buildings there are aesthetically charming. Bergen in particular is one of the most beautiful cities I've seen. I hope to own an apartment there someday, no matter how small.
I did unfortunately see some creeping Americanism in the city of Kristiansand, which is on the south coast of Norway. There was a McDonald's built into an old bank. Still better than the ugly ass McDonalds that litter the American landscape. Funny thing is there are very few restaurants in Norway. They all have huge freezers and walk in refrigerated pantries. They eat very well there and don't waste much food.
Shops do tend to close early in Norway. They like to spend time at home with their families. Silly Norwegians... :roll:
Every day I see happy faces from Norway in my Facebook feed.... they never bitch about anything, unlike a lot of my fellow Americans I'm connected with. My family would not have the same quality of life in they lived here in America. They aren't rich, and they don't need to be to have a great life, unlike here. I plan to spend my golden years there, and be buried in the land my mother was born in.... or perhaps have my body burned in a Viking funeral pyre.
Thanks for this post and the little bit of insight into what life is like in Norway.
Edit. It's to bad it has been largely ignored here
As far as I'm concerned socialism will only work if the extreme vast majority is committed to the concept...that includes all sectors of society, ie. medical professionals, politicians, teachers, business people etc., etc..
I doubt in NA that you can get enough people committed to the concept to make it work. Heck the 1 big socialist program we got, health care is crumbling as I type this...so I see no evidence that socialism works. I used to be a big supporter of our health care, I'll never say another positive thing about it. I had to dig into my own pockets to pay for for surgery because I didn't want to wait another 6-9 months for the surgery after waiting 6 months just to see a surgeon...the shame of it is the fact that premier dad introduced a health care tax 9 years to improve health care...didn't happen...all that money that has been stolen off my pay I could have used for my treatment...so I see no evidence of socialism working when we can't even get decent socialist health care.
universal health care is a concept ... you can't say it doesn't work because you had to pay for surgery ... it's like any other program ... if it's properly managed and funded - it will work ... it seems to be working ok in norway and sweden ...
if i create a program and then have shit people manage it and underfund it ... of course it's gonna look like shit ...
Referendums...how can anyone trust politicians to make major decisions for the country, province or municipality thinking that they have the people's best interest at heart? The right to recall! We should be able to recall politicians. Term limits 6 years. Elections every 3 years.
I have no problem with politicians running the day to day business of the country...but all major decisions like trade, pipelines, raising taxes etc..should go to the people.
I feel term limits and elections might held politicians more accoutable. I realize this would cost more but maybe less in the long run.
I totally agree with term limits.....but I do have a problem with referendums.
Speaking as someone who has family that live in Norway... aunts, uncles and many cousins... and as someone who visited Norway last year, including Bergen, where this article was written from...
Norway IS a paradise, except for the weather part of it But the weather I could deal with. The summers there are actually ideal. It is orderly, peaceful, and all of the buildings there are aesthetically charming. Bergen in particular is one of the most beautiful cities I've seen. I hope to own an apartment there someday, no matter how small.
I did unfortunately see some creeping Americanism in the city of Kristiansand, which is on the south coast of Norway. There was a McDonald's built into an old bank. Still better than the ugly ass McDonalds that litter the American landscape. Funny thing is there are very few restaurants in Norway. They all have huge freezers and walk in refrigerated pantries. They eat very well there and don't waste much food.
Shops do tend to close early in Norway. They like to spend time at home with their families. Silly Norwegians... :roll:
Every day I see happy faces from Norway in my Facebook feed.... they never bitch about anything, unlike a lot of my fellow Americans I'm connected with. My family would not have the same quality of life in they lived here in America. They aren't rich, and they don't need to be to have a great life, unlike here. I plan to spend my golden years there, and be buried in the land my mother was born in.... or perhaps have my body burned in a Viking funeral pyre.
Kenny -- thanks for some 1st-person perspective (or as near as we're going to get here on AMT). It's sad that McD's = America to you, though I can understand why. Truth is we have some of the best restaurants in the world in the US, but of course those kinds of restaurants can't really be exported.
Ah, so you disagree that people are different then and want different things? Or you just think everyone should think like you?
ok ... let me try another way ...
if you are playing a team sport - which team will have more success? ... one that is full of individuals with individual goals and priorities or one that is working towards a common objective?
Who defines the common objective? It's pretty easy in your simplified analogy -- the goal is to win the game. Not so clear when it comes to central-planning a society of 100s of millions of people.
As far as I'm concerned socialism will only work if the extreme vast majority is committed to the concept...that includes all sectors of society, ie. medical professionals, politicians, teachers, business people etc., etc..
I doubt in NA that you can get enough people committed to the concept to make it work. Heck the 1 big socialist program we got, health care is crumbling as I type this...so I see no evidence that socialism works. I used to be a big supporter of our health care, I'll never say another positive thing about it. I had to dig into my own pockets to pay for for surgery because I didn't want to wait another 6-9 months for the surgery after waiting 6 months just to see a surgeon...the shame of it is the fact that premier dad introduced a health care tax 9 years to improve health care...didn't happen...all that money that has been stolen off my pay I could have used for my treatment...so I see no evidence of socialism working when we can't even get decent socialist health care.
universal health care is a concept ... you can't say it doesn't work because you had to pay for surgery ... it's like any other program ... if it's properly managed and funded - it will work ... it seems to be working ok in norway and sweden ...
if i create a program and then have shit people manage it and underfund it ... of course it's gonna look like shit ...
Personally I don't know if it working in those countries...what are their wait times like, are their plenty of family doctors, etc..
I know it's not working in Canada...how much more money needs to be funnelled into the system to make it work right? Everyone has an opinion, my Doctor says theirs not enough Doctors, a neighbour of mine who works at a hospital says they the OR's are under utilized and the back log could be leaded if the surgeons were allowed more OR time.
My point really was that we were charged a health care tax on top of paying pretty generous taxes to the government and we are still waiting over a year for procedure's or do as I did and go outside the system. So for anyone to tell me that the government is better off with my money than me is full of it.
I don't know enough about those other countries system to know if they work or not. I am pretty confident in saying our system is fucked and will only get worse.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/americ ... eaves.html
That article shouldn't be news to anyone; I think it's pretty common knowledge. However it seems even common knowledge is sometimes overlooked.
In those "other countries", the people don't have a choice, short of leaving. The gov't forces them to have a "greater social collective" attitude, as you put it, regardless of whether they believe it or not. They don't "choose" to do good and give to others, the gov't says, we'll take your income, give it to who we think needs it, and you'll like it. Maybe they do like it, I don't know. But it's interesting that you see "giving" via coercion as morally superior to giving voluntarily.
america is a great place to live if you ignore the conditions by which it got there ...
Norway knows that oil is a dying resource ... but you're talking about looong term planning here ... they are diversifying their economy but at the end of the day - we're talking 50+ years from now ... who can predict what's gonna happen 2 years from now ...
at the end of the day ... places like norway succeed because they act as a collective ... they played the cards that were dealt them and that's really it ..
uhhh ... where do i say their giving is morally superior!?
norway does have a choice - they are democratic society ... norway has right wing parties like any other country that would cut taxes, cut services and privatize institutions ... in fact, centre-right gov'ts have been in place in the past decades ... the difference is where the centre is in the political spectrum ...
I don't know enough about Norway's oil situation to comment. I have to wonder though, if they're far ahead of the U.S. when it comes to renewables though, since Europe in general are far ahead....
Actually, this thread is about your last sentence. The author can't get away from his individualistic attitude about Norway, and that's why he doesn't have much good to say about them. He clearly has issues with socialism.
Everyone has a choice in where they choose to live, unless they are being held captive...
I really doubt the vast majority can just pick up and move to another country.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The point is that, given the other barriers to expatriation, I don't think a choice not to expatriate is tantamount to "choosing" to continue paying into Norway's system.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
great is subjective ... i simply responded to someone else belief that it is great ...
do i think it's great!? ... not really ... some spots are indeed great but overall - i think no ... but that's me ...
don't know about whether the norwegians want to leave or not...but the vast majority of the people in this world can not pick up and go. they are essentially forced to live within the system they are born. What I want to know is what gives politicians the right to determine our path? is their really any true democracies left in this world? and I don't consider voting every four years a democracy? that's voting a dictator in every 4 years!!!
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Norway IS a paradise, except for the weather part of it
I did unfortunately see some creeping Americanism in the city of Kristiansand, which is on the south coast of Norway. There was a McDonald's built into an old bank. Still better than the ugly ass McDonalds that litter the American landscape. Funny thing is there are very few restaurants in Norway. They all have huge freezers and walk in refrigerated pantries. They eat very well there and don't waste much food.
Shops do tend to close early in Norway. They like to spend time at home with their families. Silly Norwegians... :roll:
Every day I see happy faces from Norway in my Facebook feed.... they never bitch about anything, unlike a lot of my fellow Americans I'm connected with. My family would not have the same quality of life in they lived here in America. They aren't rich, and they don't need to be to have a great life, unlike here. I plan to spend my golden years there, and be buried in the land my mother was born in.... or perhaps have my body burned in a Viking funeral pyre.
I did a sociology paper a while ago about the "American Dream" and happiness. (And no, happiness does not come owning "stuff") What I found was an interview with Danish teenagers and a question asked of them: Why is Denmark the happiest of countries? What can Americans do to increase their happiness? One kid answered simply, Expect less and you'd be more happy. That's it in a nutshell.
See, I don't agree with this. As Nate Fisher, Jr. said: "I'm just saying, you only get one life. There's...no rules, no judgements except for those you accept or create for yourself, and once it's over, it's over. Dreamless sleep forever and ever. So why not be happy while you're here, really, why not?"
No one is being kept in their country by force unless they live as a slave to dictatorship or they're in jail. We all have choices, and we all create our own rules to live by. If you don't like Norway, leave. No one in Norway is forced to live within their system last time I checked.
Are people under the impression that you can just load your crap in a U-Haul and move to another country?
Ah, so you disagree that people are different then and want different things? Or you just think everyone should think like you?
ok ... let me try another way ...
if you are playing a team sport - which team will have more success? ... one that is full of individuals with individual goals and priorities or one that is working towards a common objective?
Depends on the talent level.
Apparently some people think that's all you need to do.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
As far as I'm concerned socialism will only work if the extreme vast majority is committed to the concept...that includes all sectors of society, ie. medical professionals, politicians, teachers, business people etc., etc..
I doubt in NA that you can get enough people committed to the concept to make it work. Heck the 1 big socialist program we got, health care is crumbling as I type this...so I see no evidence that socialism works. I used to be a big supporter of our health care, I'll never say another positive thing about it. I had to dig into my own pockets to pay for for surgery because I didn't want to wait another 6-9 months for the surgery after waiting 6 months just to see a surgeon...the shame of it is the fact that premier dad introduced a health care tax 9 years to improve health care...didn't happen...all that money that has been stolen off my pay I could have used for my treatment...so I see no evidence of socialism working when we can't even get decent socialist health care.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
so what do you consider a democracy then?
I have no problem with politicians running the day to day business of the country...but all major decisions like trade, pipelines, raising taxes etc..should go to the people.
I feel term limits and elections might held politicians more accoutable. I realize this would cost more but maybe less in the long run.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Thanks for this post and the little bit of insight into what life is like in Norway.
Edit. It's to bad it has been largely ignored here
universal health care is a concept ... you can't say it doesn't work because you had to pay for surgery ... it's like any other program ... if it's properly managed and funded - it will work ... it seems to be working ok in norway and sweden ...
if i create a program and then have shit people manage it and underfund it ... of course it's gonna look like shit ...
I totally agree with term limits.....but I do have a problem with referendums.
Personally I don't know if it working in those countries...what are their wait times like, are their plenty of family doctors, etc..
I know it's not working in Canada...how much more money needs to be funnelled into the system to make it work right? Everyone has an opinion, my Doctor says theirs not enough Doctors, a neighbour of mine who works at a hospital says they the OR's are under utilized and the back log could be leaded if the surgeons were allowed more OR time.
My point really was that we were charged a health care tax on top of paying pretty generous taxes to the government and we are still waiting over a year for procedure's or do as I did and go outside the system. So for anyone to tell me that the government is better off with my money than me is full of it.
I don't know enough about those other countries system to know if they work or not. I am pretty confident in saying our system is fucked and will only get worse.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon