Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

comebackgirl · July 2012

pandora wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I do hope that understanding the black place this young man's acts came from can provide insight as to the why - not just for this situation but perhaps to also provide warning signs down the road for others.

But in the end, does it matter if he's mentally ill or just a sick fuck? Or some of both?

Had I lost someone in that bloodbath, I don't think it would mean anything for me to see further into his mind.

It would make all the difference to me knowing mental illness.
But again sadness that there was no help for him before he played this out.

I'm also interested in knowing if a mental illness is part of this.
It does seem like at least some help would have been available to him. I went on the university website to check out the counseling services and they expressly name that they provide counseling services for schizophrenia. They could be the link to hospitalization or a higher level of care. From what I heard, he was in a class of 6 students, 35 total in the program. They're all linked to a faculty mentor and they pay close attention to students that are struggling in any manner. The DPT program at my college is like that and they will immediately refer students if there is even a hint of concern and at times have requested mental health evals to determine if they can continue in the program. The shooter's school is not disclosing any information at this point, so we're all left to wonder.

riotgrl · July 2012

blueandwhite wrote:

AzWicker wrote:

LikeAnOcean wrote:

I'm still for the right to bear arms, I just don't feel the need to own a gun.

Thats how I feel, I had many guns when I was younger, never an AR-15, mostly Browning 9mm and Wicnchestor Police Defenders. As I got older, I just don't feel the need to carry one or own one. Thankfully I never carried a gun in my car, I would have been a road rage statistic waiting to happen. I just don't want to live my life feeling I need to carry a gun everwhere I go, that would suck, for me at least.

Well said.

Gun ownership isn't an issue; responsible gun ownership with reasonable limits on the other hand is a serious issue in the US. As far as I can tell, no individual needs that kind of firepower to protect themselves. This extreme paranoia over the state oppressing gun owners is absolutely ridiculous. Most free and democratically elected governments allow for gun ownership with some reasonable restrictions.

Why is a ban on assault rifles like the one used by this shooter so strongly opposed? I have never heard of a person defending themselves with such a weapon.

This is exactly how I feel. Why are the rights of gun owners so much more important than anyone else's rights? I have to wonder about someone that feels the need to protect themselves with an AR-15 which was developed for the armed forces. I wold prefer to live in a world with no guns but if I'm willing to make sure that guns owners have their 2nd amendment right, isn't it feasible to have some restrictions?

catefrances · July 2012

riotgrl wrote:

..Why are the rights of gun owners so much more important than anyone else's rights? ...

cause its in the bill of rights.

pandora · July 2012

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I do hope that understanding the black place this young man's acts came from can provide insight as to the why - not just for this situation but perhaps to also provide warning signs down the road for others.

But in the end, does it matter if he's mentally ill or just a sick fuck? Or some of both?

Had I lost someone in that bloodbath, I don't think it would mean anything for me to see further into his mind.

It would make all the difference to me knowing mental illness.
But again sadness that there was no help for him before he played this out.

I'm also interested in knowing if a mental illness is part of this.
It does seem like at least some help would have been available to him. I went on the university website to check out the counseling services and they expressly name that they provide counseling services for schizophrenia. They could be the link to hospitalization or a higher level of care. From what I heard, he was in a class of 6 students, 35 total in the program. They're all linked to a faculty mentor and they pay close attention to students that are struggling in any manner. The DPT program at my college is like that and they will immediately refer students if there is even a hint of concern and at times have requested mental health evals to determine if they can continue in the program. The shooter's school is not disclosing any information at this point, so we're all left to wonder.

You work in the field so you must know the nature of the illness prevents those
from seeking help. There is no rational being inside their head. Gone with a purpose
that is nothing like theirs before the onset.

The gun range owner had a slim chance to alert someone before this happened.
I do not fault him of course. He had his wits about him to not allow
him near the gun range until he met with him in person.
This young man's answering machine message so very disturbing.

There were signs warnings but none heeded. People afraid to get involved,
people afraid to step on another's rights. Family who suspect but without means.

This man so intrigued with the brain, ironic it took him down.
Perhaps there is a clue there as well.

chadwick · July 2012

pandora wrote:

my my what to say ...
have you thought this more than once and been wrong?
Sounds familiar. It is rather insulting when one is committed to their beliefs
and not compromised, again answer in the first line.

For me there is evil and there is ill.

Killing for personal gratification, greed, lust, revenge, joy, fun is entirely
different than killing from a place of loss of reality insanity.

Because I know loss of reality insanity, I must forgive those who are ill
even if I were the victim of loss. I would have no choice and that is based in logic
not empathy.

horse doodoo
you have all the choices in the world

sure forgiveness they say weighs heavy not allowing healing
screw it aint forgiving shit if someone burst into a theater and killed a dozen people one being my brother, mom, dad, girlfriend, whichever.

i'd have to lock myself up to avoid blowing that person's head off which would put me in prison possibly. but i am not going to forgive anyone for killing my people. i will refuse to understand them

pandora · July 2012

chadwick wrote:

pandora wrote:

my my what to say ...
have you thought this more than once and been wrong?
Sounds familiar. It is rather insulting when one is committed to their beliefs
and not compromised, again answer in the first line.

For me there is evil and there is ill.

Killing for personal gratification, greed, lust, revenge, joy, fun is entirely
different than killing from a place of loss of reality insanity.

Because I know loss of reality insanity, I must forgive those who are ill
even if I were the victim of loss. I would have no choice and that is based in logic
not empathy.

horse doodoo
you have all the choices in the world

sure forgiveness they say weighs heavy not allowing healing
screw it aint forgiving shit if someone burst into a theater and killed a dozen people one being my brother, mom, dad, girlfriend, whichever.

i'd have to lock myself up to avoid blowing that person's head off which would put me in prison possibly. but i am not going to forgive anyone for killing my people. i will refuse to understand them

I see that ...

chadwick · July 2012

pandora wrote:

chadwick wrote:

pandora wrote:

my my what to say ...
have you thought this more than once and been wrong?
Sounds familiar. It is rather insulting when one is committed to their beliefs
and not compromised, again answer in the first line.

For me there is evil and there is ill.

Killing for personal gratification, greed, lust, revenge, joy, fun is entirely
different than killing from a place of loss of reality insanity.

Because I know loss of reality insanity, I must forgive those who are ill
even if I were the victim of loss. I would have no choice and that is based in logic
not empathy.

horse doodoo
you have all the choices in the world

sure forgiveness they say weighs heavy not allowing healing
screw it aint forgiving shit if someone burst into a theater and killed a dozen people one being my brother, mom, dad, girlfriend, whichever.

i'd have to lock myself up to avoid blowing that person's head off which would put me in prison possibly. but i am not going to forgive anyone for killing my people. i will refuse to understand them

I see that ...

pandora,
they just murdered my wife and son. why the hell would i forgive that monster? illness made him do it! says the doctors. i do not give a shit what they have to say. less than a week after the event i aint ready to forgive and may never ever forgive and understand their cruelty which ruined my life

chadwick · July 2012

this happened friday night saturday morning, right?

it is tuesday a couple days later and you're forgiving him already. he didn't even make it a week on your shit list.

Godfather. · July 2012

catefrances wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

it's just that that question always comes up on topics like this one, honestly if were my child or other family member I would want blood brains and balls but in a court of law relatives and friends and even people that have been affected by violance get weeded out of the jury process and that's why killers get life or 1 to 20 years or even walk on a murder charge,mabye not very often but it does happen.

Godfather.

perhaps then we should call for a life for a life. now before you get all vengeancy and start baying for blood, you know i dont support the death penalty.. so for every life a killer takes he/she should serve a life sentence... a real life sentence.. not one that is valued at 25 years or whatever the going rate is now. that way no killer will ever be let loose on the streets again.

to be honest with you cate I don't want anybody dead ...that's my anger for the crime commited, I don't really have it in me to deside the death of anyone but I am a little pissed that tax payers have to foot the bill for a wacko like the movie house killer or any killer for that matter, it really angers me that a person can needlessly take a life and know that they will just go to prision for 7 to 25 years or even walk away on the charges.

Godfather.

chadwick · July 2012

i am sorry if i anger any of you. i am sorry if you are bothered by my comments. please forgive me. you have hugest heart in world

pandora · July 2012

chadwick wrote:

this happened friday night saturday morning, right?

it is tuesday a couple days later and you're forgiving him already. he didn't even make it a week on your shit list.

shit list? ... forgiving?

I believe he is mentally ill and I know I can not blame someone for what they did
that an illness caused.

Would you blame a victim if they offed him?

pandora · July 2012

chadwick wrote:

pandora wrote:

I see that ...

pandora,
they just murdered my wife and son. why the hell would i forgive that monster? illness made him do it! says the doctors. i do not give a shit what they have to say. less than a week after the event i aint ready to forgive and may never ever forgive and understand their cruelty which ruined my life

And if you found it was not cruelty?

Nothing personal, not like those who kill for lust, joy, greed,revenge, fun.

Jason P · July 2012

How is it decided he is mentally ill? Seems like a sharp cookie to me. A coward, but sharp.

Mentally ill people to not take months to plan and stockpile for an event like this. They don't wear body armor and attack the weak and then give up when confronted by an armed response without even a fight. They don't rig sophisticated traps.

Dude is stone-cold evil.

And it's odd to see him get more pity then Joe Pa.

mikepegg44 · July 2012

riotgrl wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

AzWicker wrote:

Thats how I feel, I had many guns when I was younger, never an AR-15, mostly Browning 9mm and Wicnchestor Police Defenders. As I got older, I just don't feel the need to carry one or own one. Thankfully I never carried a gun in my car, I would have been a road rage statistic waiting to happen. I just don't want to live my life feeling I need to carry a gun everwhere I go, that would suck, for me at least.

Well said.

Gun ownership isn't an issue; responsible gun ownership with reasonable limits on the other hand is a serious issue in the US. As far as I can tell, no individual needs that kind of firepower to protect themselves. This extreme paranoia over the state oppressing gun owners is absolutely ridiculous. Most free and democratically elected governments allow for gun ownership with some reasonable restrictions.

Why is a ban on assault rifles like the one used by this shooter so strongly opposed? I have never heard of a person defending themselves with such a weapon.

This is exactly how I feel. Why are the rights of gun owners so much more important than anyone else's rights? I have to wonder about someone that feels the need to protect themselves with an AR-15 which was developed for the armed forces. I wold prefer to live in a world with no guns but if I'm willing to make sure that guns owners have their 2nd amendment right, isn't it feasible to have some restrictions?

which rights are you talking about? This is going to sound antagonistic, but I don't mean it that way...I don't see legal gun owners illegally searching and seizing private property, I don't see gun owners restricting free speech, I don't see gun owners forcing army soldiers to be quartered at your houses, I don't see gun owners forcing you to testify against yourself, I don't see gun owners restricting your access to a speedy and public trial, I don't see gun owners stopping you from a jury trial in civil court...etc etc etc...I realize all of our inalienable human rights aren't enumerated in the constitution as stated in the 9th, so again I must ask, which right do legal gun owners trump with enumerated right to bear arms?

One of the largest mass murders in US history was carried out with legally purchased chemicals...another one was carried out with gasoline...guns aren't first on the list when I think of problems in the country...

catefrances · July 2012

Jason P wrote:

How is it decided he is mentally ill? Seems like a sharp cookie to me. A coward, but sharp.

Mentally ill people to not take months to plan and stockpile for an event like this. They don't wear body armor and attack the weak and then give up when confronted by an armed response without even a fight. They don't rig sophisticated traps.

Dude is stone-cold evil.

And it's odd to see him get more pity then Joe Pa.

why a coward?

Jason P · July 2012

catefrances wrote:

why a coward?

He attacked those who couldn't fight back and gave up when the police confronted him.

It's like the difference of being brave (and evil) enough to kicking a cat versus kicking a pitbull.

catefrances · July 2012

Jason P wrote:

catefrances wrote:

why a coward?

He attacked those who couldn't fight back and gave up when the police confronted him.

It's like the difference of being brave (and evil) enough to kicking a cat versus kicking a pitbull.

giving up when confronted by police seems to me to be more smart than cowardly.

MotoDC · July 2012

catefrances wrote:

Jason P wrote:

catefrances wrote:

why a coward?

He attacked those who couldn't fight back and gave up when the police confronted him.

It's like the difference of being brave (and evil) enough to kicking a cat versus kicking a pitbull.

giving up when confronted by police seems to me to be more smart than cowardly.

I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. And frankly it doesn't take much "smart" to give up when faced with overwhelming odds. It's more base survival instinct, which, imo, is additional evidence that he is not in fact insane.

Jason P · July 2012

catefrances wrote:

Jason P wrote:

catefrances wrote:

why a coward?

He attacked those who couldn't fight back and gave up when the police confronted him.

It's like the difference of being brave (and evil) enough to kicking a cat versus kicking a pitbull.

giving up when confronted by police seems to me to be more smart than cowardly.

It is smart. It demonstrates good cognitive skills and the ability to understand the consequence of actions.

Maybe coward isn't the best description. Smart and evil is better.

The tactics of his plan were unprecedented. It a small miracle that the majority of the casualties survived.

edit:

No. He is a coward. Shooting a six year old ... :(

JonnyPistachio · July 2012

Cosmo wrote:

unsung wrote:

Cosmo, first of all do you honestly think that this guy would have tried to commit this if he knew that people were encouraged to concealed carry in the theatre? I'm guessing he would have thought better of it. Ever hear of a mass shooting at a gun show?

And if you think for one second that wearing all of those clothes would cause bullets to just bounce of off him like Superman, well, I think you are smarter than that.

...
Sorry.. and please, don't take this wrong... because I know you are a smart guy... but, that really sounded like something that would have come out of Sarah Palin's mouth... not Ron Paul's. It really did.
...
I mean, you know this guy was fucking nuts, right? At the same time, he was fucking smart. Maybe... he would have devised a plan to consider those concealed weapons... maybe bought a conversion kit for his AR-15 (from a Good Samaritan at the Gun Show)... and brought more than one gas canister. Uparmoured his vest to military grade... really studied kill zones and firing patterns... shut down the exits by spraying them with fire to send peole back towards the seats. He wasn't a 'Call Of Duty' dumb fuck... he was a PhD candidate and was planning this for a while.
You CAN'T be serious in thinking that having more guns creating deadly cross fire in that small, confined area with tear gas in the air would have saved lives, instead of creating more casualties. Right?
...
And yeah... working closely with military folks, I understand how fucking GREAT Kevlar works. Ever see those guys from that North Hollywood bank heist? Yeah... cop bullets were bouncing off of them like they were Superman. Your solution would work if average citizens were prepared for this type of attack. That means they would have to bring long guns to movie houses. How does THAT promote 'Family Night Out'?

Exactly.
The creep had the element of surprise when people's attention was focused on a screen showing a movie. I'm amazed that people think or dream up the idea that more bullets would be the answer. Recall the Az shooting of Giffords? There was a man nearby, an innocent mall patron, who had a gun. He said he couldnt even identify the shooter in all the chaos, so he didnt fire. Plus, had the police showed up a minute later and he was firing his weapon, the police might have shot at him.

I think as long as a psychopath has access to an AR-15 rifle like colorado, we are asking for trouble. Hell, if anyone has access to an AR-15, we're in trouble. Its just unnecessary. My opinion is, that to quell this type of problem, we limit the access of these types of weapons...perhaps combined with magazine capacity reductions. True, the shooting might still happen, but it might be less violent with less victims. Then, we have to look harder at certain signs in behavior of folks who might do this kind of thing.

Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

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