you shouldn't need dedication or initiative, for more than 22 seconds, to try to buy tickets to any type of concert ever.
Sounds like you'll go far in life.
LOL at those that have missed out on 10C tickets. I'm not the only example that proves that with dedication and initiative you can get 10C tickets 100% of the time. It's the perfect system, putting tickets in to the hands of those who want them the most and are willing to put in the effort.
Please explain the initiative to you being successful in a presale and someone being unsuccessful in a presale.
As I see it, if a presale starts at 5pm everyone who wants tickets logs on a few minutes before and then attempts to buy said tickets. Pretty quickly (within seconds) the system jams and people end up refreshing trying to get the system to work. Now whether you get tickets in the 1st second, 1st minute, 1st 10 minutes or 1st hour isn't down to initiative its down to luck.
At the end day the system used for Prague & Berlin 2 and for the new EV tour is a hassle-free way of buying tickets. And that has to be a good thing.
The initiative in question refers to ensuring one's browser is optimized to perform as quickly as possible. It's all rather simple, actually. With that initiative you certainly help your browser do what it needs to do a little better, but by no means are you increasing your chances and/or improving your odds.
It has always been a case of first come, first serve while supplies last.
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
you shouldn't need dedication or initiative, for more than 22 seconds, to try to buy tickets to any type of concert ever.
Sounds like you'll go far in life.
LOL at those that have missed out on 10C tickets. I'm not the only example that proves that with dedication and initiative you can get 10C tickets 100% of the time. It's the perfect system, putting tickets in to the hands of those who want them the most and are willing to put in the effort.
i've gotten 10C tickets 99% of the time i try. i don't always try, because i could care less if i have 10C tickets. but i'm approaching triple digit pearl jam shows.
as far as getting far in life, i did pretty good. i see about 120 concerts a year all over because I get to travel the country regularly and get paid well to do so. all i was saying in this day and age, its ridiculous to have to put extra effort into making an online purchase.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: The only proof he needed for the existence of God was music." KV Jr.
when we both pay the same 50$ for the big tv,the one should get it is the one wins the draw,and not the ones lives in a more big city,or have fancier car.
as for my country,was an exable,,ill be in the venue to see pj,even if i need tio hit f5 for the rest of my life..
but again,im not talking about myself..about what is fair in general
You pay $50 for a club membership, that $50 gives you equal access to the current ticket system. In the TV analogy, it's your Sam's club membership. It gets you in the door, but it doesn't buy you the TV.
You are so worried about fair for everyone. That is why Greece is in the current economic mess that it is. Life is not fair (in terms outcomes), and shouldn’t be. Life should only be fair in terms of opportunities, and everyone who pays their 10C dues has an equal opportunity at tickets in the current system. I’d prefer to make my own luck, and not have a system, or government, or lottery make it for me.
Please explain the initiative to you being successful in a presale and someone being unsuccessful in a presale.
As I see it, if a presale starts at 5pm everyone who wants tickets logs on a few minutes before and then attempts to buy said tickets. Pretty quickly (within seconds) the system jams and people end up refreshing trying to get the system to work. Now whether you get tickets in the 1st second, 1st minute, 1st 10 minutes or 1st hour isn't down to initiative it’s down to luck.
At the end day the system used for Prague & Berlin 2 and for the new EV tour is a hassle-free way of buying tickets. And that has to be a good thing.
Well, this was touched on a few times in this thread, so you might want to read the entire thing. But there is a lot of effort put in to ensuring I get 10C tickets. It's much more than just browswer optimization. There is planning... Moving appointments, enlisting friends, family, people who work for me to help. It might involve taking vacation. There is practice... understanding the system you are up against. Doing research on how the site works, and optimizing your chances. Lots of people have posted some of the tips, but not all are public knowledge. There is persistence... people start complaining that they can't get tickets, while some keep on working. I've gotten tickets HOURS after they went onsale. There is a lot that goes in to my 100% success rate, not just showing up at the right time and getting lucky. I am successful because I work hard to get what I want. That may not sound that hard, but I have a demanding career, family and friends, and other hobbies to balance.
Going on welfare is a hassle free way to live your life, so it has to be a good thing? What if everyone did that, who would pay for the welfare? (Think what is happening in Greece) Society needs people who have goals and want to work hard to achieve them.
all i was saying in this day and age, its ridiculous to have to put extra effort into making an online purchase.
The people who really want to go, put in the extra effort to get the tickets. Those are exactly the people that should be getting those tickets. It's simply perfect!
when we both pay the same 50$ for the big tv,the one should get it is the one wins the draw,and not the ones lives in a more big city,or have fancier car.
as for my country,was an exable,,ill be in the venue to see pj,even if i need tio hit f5 for the rest of my life..
but again,im not talking about myself..about what is fair in general
You pay $50 for a club membership, that $50 gives you equal access to the current ticket system. In the TV analogy, it's your Sam's club membership. It gets you in the door, but it doesn't buy you the TV.
You are so worried about fair for everyone. That is why Greece is in the current economic mess that it is. Life is not fair (in terms outcomes), and shouldn’t be. Life should only be fair in terms of opportunities, and everyone who pays their 10C dues has an equal opportunity at tickets in the current system. I’d prefer to make my own luck, and not have a system, or government, or lottery make it for me.
Please explain the initiative to you being successful in a presale and someone being unsuccessful in a presale.
As I see it, if a presale starts at 5pm everyone who wants tickets logs on a few minutes before and then attempts to buy said tickets. Pretty quickly (within seconds) the system jams and people end up refreshing trying to get the system to work. Now whether you get tickets in the 1st second, 1st minute, 1st 10 minutes or 1st hour isn't down to initiative it’s down to luck.
At the end day the system used for Prague & Berlin 2 and for the new EV tour is a hassle-free way of buying tickets. And that has to be a good thing.
Well, this was touched on a few times in this thread, so you might want to read the entire thing. But there is a lot of effort put in to ensuring I get 10C tickets. It's much more than just browswer optimization. There is planning... Moving appointments, enlisting friends, family, people who work for me to help. It might involve taking vacation. There is practice... understanding the system you are up against. Doing research on how the site works, and optimizing your chances. Lots of people have posted some of the tips, but not all are public knowledge. There is persistence... people start complaining that they can't get tickets, while some keep on working. I've gotten tickets HOURS after they went onsale. There is a lot that goes in to my 100% success rate, not just showing up at the right time and getting lucky. I am successful because I work hard to get what I want. That may not sound that hard, but I have a demanding career, family and friends, and other hobbies to balance.
Going on welfare is a hassle free way to live your life, so it has to be a good thing? What if everyone did that, who would pay for the welfare? (Think what is happening in Greece) Society needs people who have goals and want to work hard to achieve them.
all i was saying in this day and age, its ridiculous to have to put extra effort into making an online purchase.
The people who really want to go, put in the extra effort to get the tickets. Those are exactly the people that should be getting those tickets. It's simply perfect!
when we both pay the same 50$ for the big tv,the one should get it is the one wins the draw,and not the ones lives in a more big city,or have fancier car.
as for my country,was an exable,,ill be in the venue to see pj,even if i need tio hit f5 for the rest of my life..
but again,im not talking about myself..about what is fair in general
You pay $50 for a club membership, that $50 gives you equal access to the current ticket system. In the TV analogy, it's your Sam's club membership. It gets you in the door, but it doesn't buy you the TV.
You are so worried about fair for everyone. That is why Greece is in the current economic mess that it is. Life is not fair (in terms outcomes), and shouldn’t be. Life should only be fair in terms of opportunities, and everyone who pays their 10C dues has an equal opportunity at tickets in the current system. I’d prefer to make my own luck, and not have a system, or government, or lottery make it for me.
Please explain the initiative to you being successful in a presale and someone being unsuccessful in a presale.
As I see it, if a presale starts at 5pm everyone who wants tickets logs on a few minutes before and then attempts to buy said tickets. Pretty quickly (within seconds) the system jams and people end up refreshing trying to get the system to work. Now whether you get tickets in the 1st second, 1st minute, 1st 10 minutes or 1st hour isn't down to initiative it’s down to luck.
At the end day the system used for Prague & Berlin 2 and for the new EV tour is a hassle-free way of buying tickets. And that has to be a good thing.
Well, this was touched on a few times in this thread, so you might want to read the entire thing. But there is a lot of effort put in to ensuring I get 10C tickets. It's much more than just browswer optimization. There is planning... Moving appointments, enlisting friends, family, people who work for me to help. It might involve taking vacation. There is practice... understanding the system you are up against. Doing research on how the site works, and optimizing your chances. Lots of people have posted some of the tips, but not all are public knowledge. There is persistence... people start complaining that they can't get tickets, while some keep on working. I've gotten tickets HOURS after they went onsale. There is a lot that goes in to my 100% success rate, not just showing up at the right time and getting lucky. I am successful because I work hard to get what I want. That may not sound that hard, but I have a demanding career, family and friends, and other hobbies to balance.
Going on welfare is a hassle free way to live your life, so it has to be a good thing? What if everyone did that, who would pay for the welfare? (Think what is happening in Greece) Society needs people who have goals and want to work hard to achieve them.
all i was saying in this day and age, its ridiculous to have to put extra effort into making an online purchase.
The people who really want to go, put in the extra effort to get the tickets. Those are exactly the people that should be getting those tickets. It's simply perfect!
+1
+2 very well said MG79478
i am batting a 99% success rate with the old system
and the 1% my loss was in my hands, not someone elses
seems you dont get it..
im NOT talking about me...
i can have internet fast connection..
i can stay in front of pc 365 days in the row when it comes to pj...
trust me...if you dont believe me,ask around..
BUT..the problem is we talking about fair system for all..cos you score in the previouis system,as i did too
doesnt mean is fair..
was a torture..and unfair..lottery is easy,fast and more fair..and seems 10c get it..they run things..not me or you..
i would love to see this system stays..
How is it fair to punish those with initiative and reward those who lack it?
People without the initiative always want rewarded. They think they deserve whatever they want without putting in any effort.I would want this system to stay in place too if i got everything i wanted all the time. If i want to play the lottery i'll play state lottery. Concert tickets should be first come first serve. If you miss out that's the breaks. Life is a bitch sometimes. Well for some people anyway.
The people who really want to go, put in the extra effort to get the tickets. Those are exactly the people that should be getting those tickets. It's simply perfect!
So by your theory, anyone who works outside or somewhere that doesn't have computer access at 2PM on a Wednesday aren't real fans and don't deserve to go to shows, but office dwellers(which I am) who sit on their asses all day who are the fans that put the extra effort when tickets go on sale and are the ones who deserve to go?
The people who really want to go, put in the extra effort to get the tickets. Those are exactly the people that should be getting those tickets. It's simply perfect!
So by your theory, anyone who works outside or somewhere that doesn't have computer access at 2PM on a Wednesday aren't real fans and don't deserve to go to shows, but office dwellers(which I am) who sit on their asses all day who are the fans that put the extra effort when tickets go on sale and are the ones who deserve to go?
i believe what he suggested is that said people should burn a vacation day or have a friend or family member waste hours of time on their behalf trying to obtain tickets throught a faulty system as opposed to using an effortless and stress free system because he's had luck with the aforementioned faulty system, and does not want to chance - god forbid - not getting 10C tickets and having to *gasp* get tickets through ticketmaster. because at the end of the day, opposition to the lottery really only boils down to peoples fears about not getting into the show - there is no logical or plausible reason to be against a lottery other than that.
and i believe he is making it into an anology for hard work and getting far in life. the people who work outside obviously didn't take life very seriously and didn't get far.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: The only proof he needed for the existence of God was music." KV Jr.
WOW, all I'd like to say is that I like the lottery system to some extent because I too work 6 days a week, all different hours, mostly afternoons and evenings and this was so easy. and yes, I'm stoked cuz I scored tickets to my first EV fan club show! Sweet! so Thanks!!
WOW, all I'd like to say is that I like the lottery system to some extent because I too work 6 days a week, all different hours, mostly afternoons and evenings and this was so easy. and yes, I'm stoked cuz I got tickets to my first EV fan club show! Sweet!
And this is why the lottery is a superior system.
Good for you! Eddie solo is amazing! You are going to have a GREAT time!
now i heard it all...i want a system to be fair for fan club tix ,and i worry to much,thats why Greek economy is in a mess..
that was the argument,really make me realise lottery isnt good and previous system was better..
ok,now i dont have arguments back..only,10c choose the lottery for second presale in the row,means they see its better..i dont have more to say..ill be in the venue if i want,no matter the presale method..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Lottery is the fairest way for 10c tix and all that persistence, hard work, career advancements, vacation days, help from friends and family that they naysayers speak of will work just as well in a ticketmaster sale.
I honestly don't think it will be an issue for 90% of the PJ shows and who knows if they'll use it, but when it's needed there is just no logical explanation why it would be a bad thing.
People without the initiative always want rewarded. They think they deserve whatever they want without putting in any effort.I would want this system to stay in place too if i got everything i wanted all the time. If i want to play the lottery i'll play state lottery. Concert tickets should be first come first serve. If you miss out that's the breaks. Life is a bitch sometimes. Well for some people anyway.
Exactly! The current system is just like the good old days of waiting in line all night for tickets. Kids these days are just so spoiled. They'd rather miss out on tickets than have to put forth any effort.
So by your theory, anyone who works outside or somewhere that doesn't have computer access at 2PM on a Wednesday aren't real fans and don't deserve to go to shows, but office dwellers(which I am) who sit on their asses all day who are the fans that put the extra effort when tickets go on sale and are the ones who deserve to go?
They should take vacation, arrange for someone else to get them tickets, or find a better job. Everything else is your own words.
now i heard it all...i want a system to be fair for fan club tix ,and i worry to much,thats why Greek economy is in a mess..
that was the argument,really make me realise lottery isnt good and previous system was better..
ok,now i dont have arguments back..only,10c choose the lottery for second presale in the row,means they see its better..i dont have more to say..ill be in the venue if i want,no matter the presale method..
????????????????????????????????????????
I’ve given up trying to translate your cryptic, and seemingly random posts.
The only comment I will make… If 10C goes to a permanent lottery, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a better system, it could only mean they have less bitching from all the people who don’t put in the effort to ensure they get tickets. It’s ironic that the lazy will actually put effort in to complaining.
Lottery is the least fair way for 10C tix. The current system gives all members equal access, and makes sure a higher % of tickets end up in the hands of those who really want them and are willing to put in the effort to get them.
all that persistence, hard work, career advancements, vacation days, help from friends and family that they naysayers speak of will work just as well in a ticketmaster sale.
True, that will help with ticketmaster to some extent, but it is also an incomplete point. The 10C system is different than Ticketmaster. There are other advantages one can gain that aren't possible with Ticketmaster.
Lottery is the least fair way for 10C tix. The current system gives all members equal access, and makes sure a higher % of tickets end up in the hands of those who really want them and are willing to put in the effort to get them.
all that persistence, hard work, career advancements, vacation days, help from friends and family that they naysayers speak of will work just as well in a ticketmaster sale.
True, that will help with ticketmaster to some extent, but it is also an incomplete point. The 10C system is different than Ticketmaster. There are other advantages one can gain that aren't possible with Ticketmaster.
How is lottery the least fair way? Everybody that "really wants them" signs up for it with the obligation to buy if they get drawn. I could see your point more if the lottery was for the chance to buy tix if your name was drawn but when you enter the lotto it's an obligation to buy, meaning the people that enter the drawing want the tix just as bad as you.
What are other advantages not possible with TM?
For alot of people there simply isn't the option to take a vacation/sick day or have a friend or relative buy the tickets. Nobody works 24 hours a day so the drawing guarantees them at least a chance to enter. If somebody that works 23 hours a day really wants tickets they'll make sure to take that 1 hour off and remember to come to the website and sign up.
You keep talking about the sytem being put in your hands, but that's the same system that has failed so many other people that thought they also had control.
I think people find your reasoning insulting is b/c you have a holier than thou attitude("I'm the biggest fan b/c I optimize my computer and have a good job that allows me to get tix") as if the whole reason you've tried to become successful in life was for PJ tickets and the implication that people have crummy jobs or lives b/c they can't get the time off or a friend to get tix.
So by your theory, anyone who works outside or somewhere that doesn't have computer access at 2PM on a Wednesday aren't real fans and don't deserve to go to shows, but office dwellers(which I am) who sit on their asses all day who are the fans that put the extra effort when tickets go on sale and are the ones who deserve to go?
They should take vacation, arrange for someone else to get them tickets, or find a better job. Everything else is your own words.
MG, you are a good example why todays society is as fucked up as it is...
RM22, your point is true, and can only be argued by ignorant people.
The new system is fair, everyone has the same chance.
That's how it should be.
An office worker should not be more privileged than a nurse, a teacher, a firefighter or whoever.
So by your theory, anyone who works outside or somewhere that doesn't have computer access at 2PM on a Wednesday aren't real fans and don't deserve to go to shows, but office dwellers(which I am) who sit on their asses all day who are the fans that put the extra effort when tickets go on sale and are the ones who deserve to go?
They should take vacation, arrange for someone else to get them tickets, or find a better job. Everything else is your own words.
MG, you are a good example why todays society is as fucked up as it is...
RM22, your point is true, and can only be argued by ignorant people.
The new system is fair, everyone has the same chance.
That's how it should be.
An office worker should not be more privileged than a nurse, a teacher, a firefighter or whoever.
Yes, I'm a good example of what is wrong with today's (You missed the apostrophe, but I’m ignorant?) society. Someone who works hard has a great career and family. Someone who thinks you shouldn’t get something for nothing. Someone who has never been handed anything. Someone who finds a way to get what they want, unlike RM22 who just complains about the obstacles in his way and makes excuses.
An office worker is not more privileged than a nurse, a teacher, or a firefighter. They have different obstacles to overcome. I’m an office worker and I have upwards of 10 meetings a day and lots of air travel, but I don’t complain about it, I find a way. Everyone has the same chance in the current system, and if you don’t want to take initiative, it’s basically a lottery anyway. But an actual lottery selfishly raises the chances of the lazy.
How is lottery the least fair way? Everybody that "really wants them" signs up for it with the obligation to buy if they get drawn. I could see your point more if the lottery was for the chance to buy tix if your name was drawn but when you enter the lotto it's an obligation to buy, meaning the people that enter the drawing want the tix just as bad as you.
What are other advantages not possible with TM?
For alot of people there simply isn't the option to take a vacation/sick day or have a friend or relative buy the tickets. Nobody works 24 hours a day so the drawing guarantees them at least a chance to enter. If somebody that works 23 hours a day really wants tickets they'll make sure to take that 1 hour off and remember to come to the website and sign up.
You keep talking about the sytem being put in your hands, but that's the same system that has failed so many other people that thought they also had control.
I think people find your reasoning insulting is b/c you have a holier than thou attitude("I'm the biggest fan b/c I optimize my computer and have a good job that allows me to get tix") as if the whole reason you've tried to become successful in life was for PJ tickets and the implication that people have crummy jobs or lives b/c they can't get the time off or a friend to get tix.
Running short on time, so here are some quick responses:
Already answered your first question as to why the lottery is not as fair as the current system a few times. If your definition of fair is promoting laziness by being randomly rewarded with no personal effort required, then yes a lottery is more “fair”. But my definition of fair is a system that gives all an equal opportunity (the current 10C system) to work hard and achieve their goal. Should my kid’s little league should hand out trophies based on a lottery next season, or to the team that worked the hardest and won? Some might think it is fairer to give trophies based on a lottery, but what behavior would that reinforce? Why should the kids practice hard next season if everyone has an equal shot at winning a trophy?
I’m not detailing the other advantages not possible with TM. But it is a different system, so it will have different exploits. Everyone had different obstacles to overcome, some complain, some just do it. Many people have agreed with me that the system is in our hands. Those that thought they had control just didn’t prepare enough.
Never once did I insinuate I am a bigger fan than anyone. The people (like 1 person) getting “insulted” must have some sort of complex about their fandom to infer such non-sense. I have lots of passions in life, PJ being only one of them. It’s all about personal priority, sometimes PJ is at the top of the list, sometimes not. I’m living proof that if you want 10C tickets bad enough in the current system, you can always get them with a little effort. I’m not the only person either! I just find it so depressing that there are people out there that would rather let their life up to the fate of a lottery, rather than put in a little effort.
I hope this new lottery system is kept for all Pearl Jam shows that the 10 Club offers seats for in the future. It is stress-free compared to the former system. No longer will people have to spend frustrating hours at their computers - that was insulting and such a pride-swallowing task.
The 10 Club membership offers its members the " * Access to Fan Club only Ticket pre-sales ". Now I think most would assume that it's implied that the access to tickets would be fair .... meaning everyone would have an equal opportunity to get access to the tickets.
Once members start debating the merits of internet connection speeds and computer power that help them gain a supposed advantage in securing 10 Club tickets through the former ticketing system, then the inferred fair access to Fan Club only Ticket pre-sales is jeopardized. Hence, I think the new lottery ticketing system the 10 Club has used recently is a huge improvement over the former system simply because it seems to have re-inserted 'fair' access to the opportunity for tickets and also drastically reduced fan frustration.
Running short on time, so here are some quick responses:
Already answered your first question as to why the lottery is not as fair as the current system a few times. If your definition of fair is promoting laziness by being randomly rewarded with no personal effort required, then yes a lottery is more “fair”. But my definition of fair is a system that gives all an equal opportunity (the current 10C system) to work hard and achieve their goal. Should my kid’s little league should hand out trophies based on a lottery next season, or to the team that worked the hardest and won? Some might think it is fairer to give trophies based on a lottery, but what behavior would that reinforce? Why should the kids practice hard next season if everyone has an equal shot at winning a trophy?
I’m not detailing the other advantages not possible with TM. But it is a different system, so it will have different exploits. Everyone had different obstacles to overcome, some complain, some just do it. Many people have agreed with me that the system is in our hands. Those that thought they had control just didn’t prepare enough.
Never once did I insinuate I am a bigger fan than anyone. The people (like 1 person) getting “insulted” must have some sort of complex about their fandom to infer such non-sense. I have lots of passions in life, PJ being only one of them. It’s all about personal priority, sometimes PJ is at the top of the list, sometimes not. I’m living proof that if you want 10C tickets bad enough in the current system, you can always get them with a little effort. I’m not the only person either! I just find it so depressing that there are people out there that would rather let their life up to the fate of a lottery, rather than put in a little effort.
It's not promoting laziness. There is the effort of coming to this website over the course of a few days and making sure you enter. Your little league analogy would work if half the time the little league team did put in the work and won the championship game, got the trophy, but before the team pic could be taken the trophies were taken away.
I'd probably agree with you more if PJ's servers were brought up to speed with the actual volume of the traffic during sales, but even with all the optimization and friends to get tix the only fair way to do it is the lottery.
And again, for the record. I think it's probably like 1/10 of their shows that we're talking about that actually need a lottery. Pretty often they either have the pull to get a higher percentage when needed or there are plenty of 10c tix to go around.
It's not promoting laziness. There is the effort of coming to this website over the course of a few days and making sure you enter. Your little league analogy would work if half the time the little league team did put in the work and won the championship game, got the trophy, but before the team pic could be taken the trophies were taken away.
I'd probably agree with you more if PJ's servers were brought up to speed with the actual volume of the traffic during sales, but even with all the optimization and friends to get tix the only fair way to do it is the lottery.
And again, for the record. I think it's probably like 1/10 of their shows that we're talking about that actually need a lottery. Pretty often they either have the pull to get a higher percentage when needed or there are plenty of 10c tix to go around.
It’s not promoting laziness; it’s reinforcing that behavior though. It reinforces that you can possibly get what you want with minimal effort. Wouldn’t it be better to reinforce that with enough honest effort, you can achieve anything you want?
You don’t have tickets until you have the confirmation. It’s like being up by 5 runs with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth. It sure looks like you’re going to win that trophy, but you can’t assume anything until the game is in the books.
So another thought had occured to me. For those who are for the 10C ticket lottery, what are your thoughts about seat distribution? I'm talking all 10C seats, not just the current (1,2,9,10) lottery seats. One must assume you are against seniority based seats... Why shouldn't everyone have equal chance to sit right up front? Wouldn't that be "fair"?
So another thought had occured to me. For those who are for the 10C ticket lottery, what are your thoughts about seat distribution? I'm talking all 10C seats, not just the current (1,2,9,10) lottery seats. One must assume you are against seniority based seats... Why shouldn't everyone have equal chance to sit right up front? Wouldn't that be "fair"?
Actuall this was brought up in another thread. Sems that if I live close to a venue i should get tickets before someone who lives in another state reguardless of my seniority. That was the thinking anyway. Even though I have a crappy number I think this would be a bad idea.
My fear is that when a WA show is played... I'll get boned. It always been a fear of mine living up here but I hope when there's a full PJ tour they do a regional lottery first, then open it up to everyone. This is how the old system should have been set up as well IMO
I scored one pair via the lottery, then bought the ones for other shows via TM or the venues site. Because of the delay in me finding out about extra shows, I still managed to get decent seats through public sale some 18 HOURS after they were on sale.
Manchester 04.06.00, Leeds 25.08.06, Wembley 18.06.07, Dusseldorf 21.06.07, Shepherds Bush 11.08.09, Manchester 17.08.09, Adelaide 17.11.09, Melbourne 20.11.09, Sydney 22.11.09, Brisbane 25.11.09, MSG1 20.05.10, MSG2 21.05.10, Dublin 22.06.10, Belfast 23.06.10, London 25.06.10, Long Beach 06.07.11 (EV), Los Angeles 08.07.11 (EV), Toronto 11.09.11, Toronto 12.09.11, Ottawa 14.09.11, Hamilton 14.09.11, Manchester 20.06.12, Manchester 21.06.12, Amsterdam 26.06.2012, Amsterdam 27.06.2012, Berlin 04.07.12, Berlin 05.07.12, Stockholm 07.07.12, Oslo 09.07.12, Copenhagen 10.07.12, Manchester 28.07.12 (EV), Brooklyn 18.10.13, Brooklyn 19.10.13, Philly 21.10.13, Philly 22.10.13, San Diego 21.11.13, LA 23.11.13, LA 24.11.13, Oakland 26.11.13, Portland 29.11.13, Spokane 30.11.13, Calgary 02.12.13, Vancouver 04.12.13, Seattle 06.12.13, Trieste 22.06.14, Vienna 25.06.14, Berlin 26.06.14, Stockholm 28.06.14, Leeds 08.07.14, Philly 28.04.16, Philly 28.04.16, MSG1 01.05.16, MSG2 02.05.16
There's been a lot on this topic, I'm not sure I can say anything new, but I don't think the lottery system is necessarily the best way to go for Pearl jam tickets. I concede it's absolutely the most "fair" way of doing things, but that's not how businesses stay afloat nor is it how you maintain your long term customer base. You can look at most any hotel chain, airline, or sports team to see this. The club needs to create a business model that keeps people paying in year after year, even when they are not touring the US (one aspect of this is seniority or "Season Tickets to Pearl Jam"). They need to maintain that fandom haze that keeps selling out the shows, buying up all the posters and shirts, and charging $20/$40 for what amounts to a scratch and win puts this at risk.
Let's not forget the lotto was run under what is basically the lowest bar test. Eddie touring the white parts of the southern half of the US does not generate the same demand as PJ playing in NYC, so the winner to entrant ratio for this run of the ticket lottery was really as good as it's ever going to get, meaning that since the lottery basically nullifies the barriers to entry when purchasing tickets, demand will skyrocket making success harder and even more frustrating. When PJ next plays MSG, the demand in the lottery will include everyone willing to fight the servers, people who take the 'I don't really want to go, but if I win the lotto I will since I don't want to deal with the shitty 10c servers", and the hoards of scalpers who now realize how joining the 10c and entering the lotto makes it easier to ply their trade on the fan club.
The net of this is that fans need to realize they are trading "fair" for vastly reduced chances at getting tickets and the chance that bad luck will screw you out of ever getting 10c tickets again, not matter how hard you try. (where in the old crappy-server system persistence was usually rewarded.) I am not opposed to the lotto system if that's really what the majority of the fan base wants, I just think people need to realize there are effects beyond just patting themselves on the back for being "fair".
There's been a lot on this topic, I'm not sure I can say anything new, but I don't think the lottery system is necessarily the best way to go for Pearl jam tickets. I concede it's absolutely the most "fair" way of doing things, but that's not how businesses stay afloat nor is it how you maintain your long term customer base. You can look at most any hotel chain, airline, or sports team to see this. The club needs to create a business model that keeps people paying in year after year, even when they are not touring the US (one aspect of this is seniority or "Season Tickets to Pearl Jam"). They need to maintain that fandom haze that keeps selling out the shows, buying up all the posters and shirts, and charging $20/$40 for what amounts to a scratch and win puts this at risk.
Let's not forget the lotto was run under what is basically the lowest bar test. Eddie touring the white parts of the southern half of the US does not generate the same demand as PJ playing in NYC, so the winner to entrant ratio for this run of the ticket lottery was really as good as it's ever going to get, meaning that since the lottery basically nullifies the barriers to entry when purchasing tickets, demand will skyrocket making success harder and even more frustrating. When PJ next plays MSG, the demand in the lottery will include everyone willing to fight the servers, people who take the 'I don't really want to go, but if I win the lotto I will since I don't want to deal with the shitty 10c servers", and the hoards of scalpers who now realize how joining the 10c and entering the lotto makes it easier to ply their trade on the fan club.
The net of this is that fans need to realize they are trading "fair" for vastly reduced chances at getting tickets and the chance that bad luck will screw you out of ever getting 10c tickets again, not matter how hard you try. (where in the old crappy-server system persistence was usually rewarded.) I am not opposed to the lotto system if that's really what the majority of the fan base wants, I just think people need to realize there are effects beyond just patting themselves on the back for being "fair".
So another thought had occured to me. For those who are for the 10C ticket lottery, what are your thoughts about seat distribution? I'm talking all 10C seats, not just the current (1,2,9,10) lottery seats. One must assume you are against seniority based seats... Why shouldn't everyone have equal chance to sit right up front? Wouldn't that be "fair"?
I'm still waiting on the lottery folks to weigh in on ticket distribution. They had been so quick to respond, but they've gone oddly silent!
I'm still waiting on the lottery folks to weigh in on ticket distribution. They had been so quick to respond, but they've gone oddly silent!
Can't speak for anyone else but I would be 100% OK if the seniority system went away. It was a wonderful idea in the beginning and I give the band all the credit in the world for instituting it. But...in recent years it does seem like it has become ugly in a way the band never intended. The entitlement, the arguments, we've all seen it. Personally, I think Eddie agrees and that is why his tours always feature random seating.
When PJ next plays MSG, the demand in the lottery will include everyone willing to fight the servers, people who take the 'I don't really want to go, but if I win the lotto I will since I don't want to deal with the shitty 10c servers", and the hoards of scalpers who now realize how joining the 10c and entering the lotto makes it easier to ply their trade on the fan club.
I don't see how the lottery gives the scalpers better chances.
Reading your arguments, it should be harder for the scalpers to get tickets with this system, not the other way around.
You said the demand will be higher because more people will try to score tickets with this 'easy' system, that would reduce the chances for scalpers (same supply - higher demand).
I think scalpers will have a harder time getting tickets with the new lottery.
More fans will have the chance to get tickets, since they don't have to be online at one special time (bad for non-office workers).
Plus, scalpers won't have the advantage of their professional equipment (fast internet access, multiple pc's) any more.
I could go either way. Personally, I'd open up arena floor to be GA and have seniority applied to the lower level. The GA shows are usually what make Europe and South America the better shows.
I'm with the band that most people up front are lame.
And for the record, I usually get very good 10C seats.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph: The only proof he needed for the existence of God was music." KV Jr.
Comments
The initiative in question refers to ensuring one's browser is optimized to perform as quickly as possible. It's all rather simple, actually. With that initiative you certainly help your browser do what it needs to do a little better, but by no means are you increasing your chances and/or improving your odds.
It has always been a case of first come, first serve while supplies last.
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
i've gotten 10C tickets 99% of the time i try. i don't always try, because i could care less if i have 10C tickets. but i'm approaching triple digit pearl jam shows.
as far as getting far in life, i did pretty good. i see about 120 concerts a year all over because I get to travel the country regularly and get paid well to do so. all i was saying in this day and age, its ridiculous to have to put extra effort into making an online purchase.
You pay $50 for a club membership, that $50 gives you equal access to the current ticket system. In the TV analogy, it's your Sam's club membership. It gets you in the door, but it doesn't buy you the TV.
You are so worried about fair for everyone. That is why Greece is in the current economic mess that it is. Life is not fair (in terms outcomes), and shouldn’t be. Life should only be fair in terms of opportunities, and everyone who pays their 10C dues has an equal opportunity at tickets in the current system. I’d prefer to make my own luck, and not have a system, or government, or lottery make it for me.
Well, this was touched on a few times in this thread, so you might want to read the entire thing. But there is a lot of effort put in to ensuring I get 10C tickets. It's much more than just browswer optimization. There is planning... Moving appointments, enlisting friends, family, people who work for me to help. It might involve taking vacation. There is practice... understanding the system you are up against. Doing research on how the site works, and optimizing your chances. Lots of people have posted some of the tips, but not all are public knowledge. There is persistence... people start complaining that they can't get tickets, while some keep on working. I've gotten tickets HOURS after they went onsale. There is a lot that goes in to my 100% success rate, not just showing up at the right time and getting lucky. I am successful because I work hard to get what I want. That may not sound that hard, but I have a demanding career, family and friends, and other hobbies to balance.
Going on welfare is a hassle free way to live your life, so it has to be a good thing? What if everyone did that, who would pay for the welfare? (Think what is happening in Greece) Society needs people who have goals and want to work hard to achieve them.
The people who really want to go, put in the extra effort to get the tickets. Those are exactly the people that should be getting those tickets. It's simply perfect!
+1
i am batting a 99% success rate with the old system
and the 1% my loss was in my hands, not someone elses
People without the initiative always want rewarded. They think they deserve whatever they want without putting in any effort.I would want this system to stay in place too if i got everything i wanted all the time. If i want to play the lottery i'll play state lottery. Concert tickets should be first come first serve. If you miss out that's the breaks. Life is a bitch sometimes. Well for some people anyway.
Alpine Valley Resort is etched in my brain!!!
So by your theory, anyone who works outside or somewhere that doesn't have computer access at 2PM on a Wednesday aren't real fans and don't deserve to go to shows, but office dwellers(which I am) who sit on their asses all day who are the fans that put the extra effort when tickets go on sale and are the ones who deserve to go?
8/15/92, 9/28/96, 8/28/98, 8/29/98, 9/18/98, 8/3/00, 8/9/00, 8/10/00, 8/23/00, 8/25/00, 9/1/00, 9/2/00, 4/28/03, 6/18/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 6/19/08, 10/27/09, 10/31/09, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/21/13
More to Come....
i believe what he suggested is that said people should burn a vacation day or have a friend or family member waste hours of time on their behalf trying to obtain tickets throught a faulty system as opposed to using an effortless and stress free system because he's had luck with the aforementioned faulty system, and does not want to chance - god forbid - not getting 10C tickets and having to *gasp* get tickets through ticketmaster. because at the end of the day, opposition to the lottery really only boils down to peoples fears about not getting into the show - there is no logical or plausible reason to be against a lottery other than that.
and i believe he is making it into an anology for hard work and getting far in life. the people who work outside obviously didn't take life very seriously and didn't get far.
And this is why the lottery is a superior system.
Good for you! Eddie solo is amazing! You are going to have a GREAT time!
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
that was the argument,really make me realise lottery isnt good and previous system was better..
ok,now i dont have arguments back..only,10c choose the lottery for second presale in the row,means they see its better..i dont have more to say..ill be in the venue if i want,no matter the presale method..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I honestly don't think it will be an issue for 90% of the PJ shows and who knows if they'll use it, but when it's needed there is just no logical explanation why it would be a bad thing.
Exactly! The current system is just like the good old days of waiting in line all night for tickets. Kids these days are just so spoiled. They'd rather miss out on tickets than have to put forth any effort.
They should take vacation, arrange for someone else to get them tickets, or find a better job. Everything else is your own words.
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I’ve given up trying to translate your cryptic, and seemingly random posts.
The only comment I will make… If 10C goes to a permanent lottery, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a better system, it could only mean they have less bitching from all the people who don’t put in the effort to ensure they get tickets. It’s ironic that the lazy will actually put effort in to complaining.
Lottery is the least fair way for 10C tix. The current system gives all members equal access, and makes sure a higher % of tickets end up in the hands of those who really want them and are willing to put in the effort to get them.
True, that will help with ticketmaster to some extent, but it is also an incomplete point. The 10C system is different than Ticketmaster. There are other advantages one can gain that aren't possible with Ticketmaster.
How is lottery the least fair way? Everybody that "really wants them" signs up for it with the obligation to buy if they get drawn. I could see your point more if the lottery was for the chance to buy tix if your name was drawn but when you enter the lotto it's an obligation to buy, meaning the people that enter the drawing want the tix just as bad as you.
What are other advantages not possible with TM?
For alot of people there simply isn't the option to take a vacation/sick day or have a friend or relative buy the tickets. Nobody works 24 hours a day so the drawing guarantees them at least a chance to enter. If somebody that works 23 hours a day really wants tickets they'll make sure to take that 1 hour off and remember to come to the website and sign up.
You keep talking about the sytem being put in your hands, but that's the same system that has failed so many other people that thought they also had control.
I think people find your reasoning insulting is b/c you have a holier than thou attitude("I'm the biggest fan b/c I optimize my computer and have a good job that allows me to get tix") as if the whole reason you've tried to become successful in life was for PJ tickets and the implication that people have crummy jobs or lives b/c they can't get the time off or a friend to get tix.
RM22, your point is true, and can only be argued by ignorant people.
The new system is fair, everyone has the same chance.
That's how it should be.
An office worker should not be more privileged than a nurse, a teacher, a firefighter or whoever.
Yes, I'm a good example of what is wrong with today's (You missed the apostrophe, but I’m ignorant?) society. Someone who works hard has a great career and family. Someone who thinks you shouldn’t get something for nothing. Someone who has never been handed anything. Someone who finds a way to get what they want, unlike RM22 who just complains about the obstacles in his way and makes excuses.
An office worker is not more privileged than a nurse, a teacher, or a firefighter. They have different obstacles to overcome. I’m an office worker and I have upwards of 10 meetings a day and lots of air travel, but I don’t complain about it, I find a way. Everyone has the same chance in the current system, and if you don’t want to take initiative, it’s basically a lottery anyway. But an actual lottery selfishly raises the chances of the lazy.
Running short on time, so here are some quick responses:
Already answered your first question as to why the lottery is not as fair as the current system a few times. If your definition of fair is promoting laziness by being randomly rewarded with no personal effort required, then yes a lottery is more “fair”. But my definition of fair is a system that gives all an equal opportunity (the current 10C system) to work hard and achieve their goal. Should my kid’s little league should hand out trophies based on a lottery next season, or to the team that worked the hardest and won? Some might think it is fairer to give trophies based on a lottery, but what behavior would that reinforce? Why should the kids practice hard next season if everyone has an equal shot at winning a trophy?
I’m not detailing the other advantages not possible with TM. But it is a different system, so it will have different exploits. Everyone had different obstacles to overcome, some complain, some just do it. Many people have agreed with me that the system is in our hands. Those that thought they had control just didn’t prepare enough.
Never once did I insinuate I am a bigger fan than anyone. The people (like 1 person) getting “insulted” must have some sort of complex about their fandom to infer such non-sense. I have lots of passions in life, PJ being only one of them. It’s all about personal priority, sometimes PJ is at the top of the list, sometimes not. I’m living proof that if you want 10C tickets bad enough in the current system, you can always get them with a little effort. I’m not the only person either! I just find it so depressing that there are people out there that would rather let their life up to the fate of a lottery, rather than put in a little effort.
The 10 Club membership offers its members the " * Access to Fan Club only Ticket pre-sales ". Now I think most would assume that it's implied that the access to tickets would be fair .... meaning everyone would have an equal opportunity to get access to the tickets.
Once members start debating the merits of internet connection speeds and computer power that help them gain a supposed advantage in securing 10 Club tickets through the former ticketing system, then the inferred fair access to Fan Club only Ticket pre-sales is jeopardized. Hence, I think the new lottery ticketing system the 10 Club has used recently is a huge improvement over the former system simply because it seems to have re-inserted 'fair' access to the opportunity for tickets and also drastically reduced fan frustration.
Have a good day.
It's not promoting laziness. There is the effort of coming to this website over the course of a few days and making sure you enter. Your little league analogy would work if half the time the little league team did put in the work and won the championship game, got the trophy, but before the team pic could be taken the trophies were taken away.
I'd probably agree with you more if PJ's servers were brought up to speed with the actual volume of the traffic during sales, but even with all the optimization and friends to get tix the only fair way to do it is the lottery.
And again, for the record. I think it's probably like 1/10 of their shows that we're talking about that actually need a lottery. Pretty often they either have the pull to get a higher percentage when needed or there are plenty of 10c tix to go around.
It’s not promoting laziness; it’s reinforcing that behavior though. It reinforces that you can possibly get what you want with minimal effort. Wouldn’t it be better to reinforce that with enough honest effort, you can achieve anything you want?
You don’t have tickets until you have the confirmation. It’s like being up by 5 runs with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth. It sure looks like you’re going to win that trophy, but you can’t assume anything until the game is in the books.
Actuall this was brought up in another thread. Sems that if I live close to a venue i should get tickets before someone who lives in another state reguardless of my seniority. That was the thinking anyway. Even though I have a crappy number I think this would be a bad idea.
This is the quote I was referring to.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=182498&start=105&hilit=lottery
My thoughts now remain the same.
Win, lose, or still have chance at TM. and no sweat lost.
(except for TM selling out instantly and then within 5 minutes of the second show. I've heard about some sweat lost then)
Let's not forget the lotto was run under what is basically the lowest bar test. Eddie touring the white parts of the southern half of the US does not generate the same demand as PJ playing in NYC, so the winner to entrant ratio for this run of the ticket lottery was really as good as it's ever going to get, meaning that since the lottery basically nullifies the barriers to entry when purchasing tickets, demand will skyrocket making success harder and even more frustrating. When PJ next plays MSG, the demand in the lottery will include everyone willing to fight the servers, people who take the 'I don't really want to go, but if I win the lotto I will since I don't want to deal with the shitty 10c servers", and the hoards of scalpers who now realize how joining the 10c and entering the lotto makes it easier to ply their trade on the fan club.
The net of this is that fans need to realize they are trading "fair" for vastly reduced chances at getting tickets and the chance that bad luck will screw you out of ever getting 10c tickets again, not matter how hard you try. (where in the old crappy-server system persistence was usually rewarded.) I am not opposed to the lotto system if that's really what the majority of the fan base wants, I just think people need to realize there are effects beyond just patting themselves on the back for being "fair".
Very well said!
I'm still waiting on the lottery folks to weigh in on ticket distribution. They had been so quick to respond, but they've gone oddly silent!
Im batting 1,000 for the F5 situation...
I lost a few years of my life through the PJ20 12 hour fiasco though.
Can't speak for anyone else but I would be 100% OK if the seniority system went away. It was a wonderful idea in the beginning and I give the band all the credit in the world for instituting it. But...in recent years it does seem like it has become ugly in a way the band never intended. The entitlement, the arguments, we've all seen it. Personally, I think Eddie agrees and that is why his tours always feature random seating.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Reading your arguments, it should be harder for the scalpers to get tickets with this system, not the other way around.
You said the demand will be higher because more people will try to score tickets with this 'easy' system, that would reduce the chances for scalpers (same supply - higher demand).
I think scalpers will have a harder time getting tickets with the new lottery.
More fans will have the chance to get tickets, since they don't have to be online at one special time (bad for non-office workers).
Plus, scalpers won't have the advantage of their professional equipment (fast internet access, multiple pc's) any more.
I could go either way. Personally, I'd open up arena floor to be GA and have seniority applied to the lower level. The GA shows are usually what make Europe and South America the better shows.
I'm with the band that most people up front are lame.
And for the record, I usually get very good 10C seats.