Feds: Religious employers must cover the pill

WaveRyder wrote:

_ wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

when i was covering the legislative session in my home state. this issue came up. the state tried mandating that employers offering health insurance cover contraceptives. One of the largest employers in the state is Catholic Hospital. The hospitals representatives stated that even with a mandate, they simply wouldnt do it. It goes against freedom of religion.

So this hospital doesn't receive a dime of public funds, then?

And is it not a major provider of health care for its population? If it is, how is it possibly right that a population's primary source of healthcare should be able to deny their patients the preventative care that their doctors say they need?

imposing someone elses beliefs on another should not be ok. and as far as the pharmacy goes, find a different pharmacy. if its a privately run firm, they can choose what products to offer and which ones they dont. Its called free enterprise.

But you're neglecting to recognize that someone is imposing his/her beliefs on another either way here. You're just deciding which person's beliefs get imposed. So since you believe the employer's beliefs should always trump the emploees' beliefs, then you believe pharmacists should be made to prescribe Plan B, etc even if it violates their own religious beliefs, right? So in that sense you agree with gimme?

Right now, every one has a choice. Under the new law, choice is limited.
ill error on the side of choice - pun intended

I disagree. I think you're confusing an ideal world with reality.

WaveRyder wrote:

_ wrote:

I disagree. I think you're confusing an ideal world with reality.

its not debatable. right now. everyone has a choice. you can choose to opt out of the insurance your employer offers. my employer offers a health plan but i found one individually for cheaper so i went that route. if i were a women and contraceptive coverage was important to me and my employers plan didnt cover it, i could also opt out and find my own plan.

What dont you understand about that. Choice is choice. look up the word in the dictionary and apply definition to "real world" and you'll see I am dead on accurate. you might not like it, but that is reality.

Choice is relative. For example, in some countries the government provides food for children who are starving & whose parents can't afford to feed them, but they'll only feed the children if the mother agrees to sterilization. Then, using logic & rhetoric like yours, they say it's the women's "choice" to get sterilized or not. But when your alternative is to let your kids die, there's really not much choice.

You say everything's fair because people can always choose to quit their jobs if they don't like something, but in reality, that's not a viable option for many people.

Again, I don't know why you have to be so condescending.

WaveRyder wrote:

"The society that puts equality before freedom will end up with neither. The society that puts freedom before equality will end up with a great measure of both." – Milton Friedman

i disagree with this assertion.

so if we are free to choose something or act in a specific way, and we choose to oppress others or force our views on them, we will end up with a greater measure of freedom and equality?? :? :?

with unlimited freedom comes a great amount of responsibility.

freedom, if abused, leads to bad things. and to me, people who would rather do things like ride a motorcycle 90 miles per hour down the highway without a helmet only because they are free to do so is just a case in point.

your position in this thread is just your vision of morality against mine and most others in this thread.

you conservatives who are against abortion and funding things like medicaid and assistance of the poor should possibly re-think your position on abortion and your position allowing pharmacies the freedom to either honor or ignore MD orders...

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

your position in this thread is just your vision of morality against mine and most others in this thread.

right, but you want to use govt as a vessel to support your morality.... i dont.

if i was prolife and an employer and was forced to enable something that goes against my religion, compromising MY morals, isnt that oppression of religion?

i happen to want you to be free to do what it is that you think is best in your life. I just ask for the same.

_ wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

No one in this country is being oppressed right now

:roll: explain yourself?

_ wrote:

I just think your interpretation of reality is so far off base that it's kind of comical.

you didnt explain anything.


But, to your post, i was thinking the same thing. What do you do for a living? What did you study in college?

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..
The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that.
Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections.


Thought id share this story.
(Ill respond to above posts after work)

WaveRyder wrote:

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..
The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that.
Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections.


Thought id share this story.
(Ill respond to above posts after work)

This spam email is a crock of shit. Obama is far from being a socialist. If he lived in Canada, Obama would be the leader of the conservative party.

I want so badly for Ron Paul to do well based on his foreign policy alone. But it's people like you that have no grasp of how a hybrid of socialism and capitalism can work. Do you really not think we have rich people in Canada of Germany because we have socialized heath care or higher tax rates on the wealthy???

You can study the constitution and American history all you want. But at some point you have to get past that and broaden your knowledge

I'm not saying any other society is a perfect one. But with the resources, wealth, and economy America has, it's a shame to see such a great nation going down the toilet.

WaveRyder wrote:

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..
The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that.
Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections.


Thought id share this story.
(Ill respond to above posts after work)

Funny, up here in Canada we have government health care and a strong social safety net, yet people still work hard. I believe this is the same in socialist countries.

A more apt analogy would be: Nobody would fail but those who do well would still receive a higher grade than those who do not.

Hmm..