Feds: Religious employers must cover the pill

WaveRyder

it depends how old you are I suppose. I didnt make that up, its a commonly used figure of speech.


and WHYGOHOME just admitted having no regard for the constitution. like it or not, that is the doctrine that is suppose to give our country some sort of direction. How can you disrespect something intended to protect YOUR rights as a human being?

whygohome

WaveRyder wrote:

it depends how old you are I suppose. I didnt make that up, its a commonly used figure of speech.


and WHYGOHOME just admitted having no regard for the constitution. like it or not, that is the doctrine that is suppose to give our country some sort of direction. How can you disrespect something intended to protect YOUR rights as a human being?

Yup. That's exactly what I did.

WaveRyder

and what is it about the Constitution and the bill of rights that is so outdated?

the right to due process
free speech
the right to vote
Congress having the power to declare war and not the president
The treasury charged with regulating currency
property rights
the right to bear arms
protection from unlawful search and seizure
the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial
the right to a speedy and fair trial
the right to state provided attorney
protection from cruel and unusual punishment

What is it about these principles that is so outdated? Please fill me in. Please

gimmesometruth27

i ask again....

so waveryder, are you saying that the liberals on here have no brain?

gimmesometruth27

WaveRyder wrote:

and what is it about the Constitution and the bill of rights that is so outdated?

the right to due process
free speech
the right to vote
Congress having the power to declare war and not the president
The treasury charged with regulating currency
property rights
the right to bear arms
protection from unlawful search and seizure
the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial
the right to a speedy and fair trial
the right to state provided attorney
protection from cruel and unusual punishment

What is it about these principles that is so outdated? Please fill me in. Please

let's see...here is what we have today...the constitution completely being abused and distorted...

the right to due process unless you are hispanic, black, or of middle eastern descent, in which case the odds are stacked against you. just look at the demographics in our nation's prisons..and look at all of the gitmo detainees who were never charged with anything...just held for years with no charges, no trials, and no hearing in front of a military tribunal....

free speech to a certain extent. hate speech from the tea party and those on the right seems to be acceptable, and it is possible to run an entire political campaign paid for by superpacs who base the entire campaign on making up shit and attacking the other guy and not having to prove the accusations, so in that regard free speech is being abused. and do not get me started on citizen's united where corporations are people and money is speech

the right to vote unless you live in the south where mandatory picture ids are being required to vote and as such people are being disenfrancised

Congress having the power to declare war and not the president funnily enough congress is the most dysfunctional it has ever been. it is so divided. congress would rather let the economy collapse rather than see obama succeed at anything. some people call that good policy, when in actuality it is nothing more than being a dick.

The treasury charged with regulating currency

property rights people have the right to acquire property. when this was written PEOPLE were considered property...

the right to bear arms this is outdated. the intent of the founding fathers with this was to allow people to protect themselves from the brits, such as when british soldiers were quarterd in american homes, which is completely irrelevent in today's reality..

protection from unlawful search and seizure LOL patriot act anyone? there is no equal protection under the law and you can be unreasonably searched for anything at all these days.

the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial coerced confessions anyone? this happens all the time. especially in cases of people who are in gitmo or were at other black site prisons...

the right to a speedy and fair trial people do get trials. most times they are not "speedy" (ie gitmo detainees) and most times, but not all times, they are fair.

the right to state provided attorney do people really want a public defender these days? if you want to get off or stay out of a long jail sentence you have to pay someone to get you off...

protection from cruel and unusual punishment death penalty is still legal, and we are still torturing people...

and that was just from the top of my head. if i really wanted to i could go through and find more examples. it does appear that this constitution has been shat upon. so how do ya suppose we clean up the mess??

_

WaveRyder wrote:

it depends how old you are I suppose. I didnt make that up, its a commonly used figure of speech.


and WHYGOHOME just admitted having no regard for the constitution. like it or not, that is the doctrine that is suppose to give our country some sort of direction. How can you disrespect something intended to protect YOUR rights as a human being?

He expressed neither disregard nor disrespect for the Constitution. What he expressed disregard & disrespect for are the people who think they have some kind of inside scoop on how the founding fathers would apply it to present times.

Regardless, having just won Ed solo tickets through both 10C and the radio today, I'm in way too good a mood to continue with this discussion.

WaveRyder

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

and what is it about the Constitution and the bill of rights that is so outdated?

the right to due process
free speech
the right to vote
Congress having the power to declare war and not the president
The treasury charged with regulating currency
property rights
the right to bear arms
protection from unlawful search and seizure
the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial
the right to a speedy and fair trial
the right to state provided attorney
protection from cruel and unusual punishment

What is it about these principles that is so outdated? Please fill me in. Please

let's see...here is what we have today...the constitution completely being abused and distorted...

the right to due process unless you are hispanic, black, or of middle eastern descent, in which case the odds are stacked against you. just look at the demographics in our nation's prisons..and look at all of the gitmo detainees who were never charged with anything...just held for years with no charges, no trials, and no hearing in front of a military tribunal....

free speech to a certain extent. hate speech from the tea party and those on the right seems to be acceptable, and it is possible to run an entire political campaign paid for by superpacs who base the entire campaign on making up shit and attacking the other guy and not having to prove the accusations, so in that regard free speech is being abused. and do not get me started on citizen's united where corporations are people and money is speech

the right to vote unless you live in the south where mandatory picture ids are being required to vote and as such people are being disenfrancised

Congress having the power to declare war and not the president funnily enough congress is the most dysfunctional it has ever been. it is so divided. congress would rather let the economy collapse rather than see obama succeed at anything. some people call that good policy, when in actuality it is nothing more than being a dick.

The treasury charged with regulating currency

property rights people have the right to acquire property. when this was written PEOPLE were considered property...

the right to bear arms this is outdated. the intent of the founding fathers with this was to allow people to protect themselves from the brits, such as when british soldiers were quarterd in american homes, which is completely irrelevent in today's reality..

protection from unlawful search and seizure LOL patriot act anyone? there is no equal protection under the law and you can be unreasonably searched for anything at all these days.

the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial coerced confessions anyone? this happens all the time. especially in cases of people who are in gitmo or were at other black site prisons...

the right to a speedy and fair trial people do get trials. most times they are not "speedy" (ie gitmo detainees) and most times, but not all times, they are fair.

the right to state provided attorney do people really want a public defender these days? if you want to get off or stay out of a long jail sentence you have to pay someone to get you off...

protection from cruel and unusual punishment death penalty is still legal, and we are still torturing people...

and that was just from the top of my head. if i really wanted to i could go through and find more examples. it does appear that this constitution has been shat upon. so how do ya suppose we clean up the mess??

im glad you realize just how badly the Constitution is being trampled on.... see where my frustration comes from?

my suggestion is to start strictly adhereing to it. we've allowed our elected officials to compromise its principles for too long. The original topic of this thread is another example. So it seems we agree?

WaveRyder

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

and what is it about the Constitution and the bill of rights that is so outdated?

the right to due process
free speech
the right to vote
Congress having the power to declare war and not the president
The treasury charged with regulating currency
property rights
the right to bear arms
protection from unlawful search and seizure
the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial
the right to a speedy and fair trial
the right to state provided attorney
protection from cruel and unusual punishment

What is it about these principles that is so outdated? Please fill me in. Please

let's see...here is what we have today...the constitution completely being abused and distorted...

the right to due process unless you are hispanic, black, or of middle eastern descent, in which case the odds are stacked against you. just look at the demographics in our nation's prisons..and look at all of the gitmo detainees who were never charged with anything...just held for years with no charges, no trials, and no hearing in front of a military tribunal....

free speech to a certain extent. hate speech from the tea party and those on the right seems to be acceptable, and it is possible to run an entire political campaign paid for by superpacs who base the entire campaign on making up shit and attacking the other guy and not having to prove the accusations, so in that regard free speech is being abused. and do not get me started on citizen's united where corporations are people and money is speech

the right to vote unless you live in the south where mandatory picture ids are being required to vote and as such people are being disenfrancised

Congress having the power to declare war and not the president funnily enough congress is the most dysfunctional it has ever been. it is so divided. congress would rather let the economy collapse rather than see obama succeed at anything. some people call that good policy, when in actuality it is nothing more than being a dick.

The treasury charged with regulating currency

property rights people have the right to acquire property. when this was written PEOPLE were considered property...

the right to bear arms this is outdated. the intent of the founding fathers with this was to allow people to protect themselves from the brits, such as when british soldiers were quarterd in american homes, which is completely irrelevent in today's reality..

protection from unlawful search and seizure LOL patriot act anyone? there is no equal protection under the law and you can be unreasonably searched for anything at all these days.

the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial coerced confessions anyone? this happens all the time. especially in cases of people who are in gitmo or were at other black site prisons...

the right to a speedy and fair trial people do get trials. most times they are not "speedy" (ie gitmo detainees) and most times, but not all times, they are fair.

the right to state provided attorney do people really want a public defender these days? if you want to get off or stay out of a long jail sentence you have to pay someone to get you off...

protection from cruel and unusual punishment death penalty is still legal, and we are still torturing people...

and that was just from the top of my head. if i really wanted to i could go through and find more examples. it does appear that this constitution has been shat upon. so how do ya suppose we clean up the mess??

you missed one

The treasury charged with regulating currency: Since 1911 or 1913 (cant remember right off hand) our currency has been regulated by a central bank - THE FED - not the government. Just another breach of the Constitution.

gimmesometruth27

WaveRyder wrote:

im glad you realize just how badly the Constitution is being trampled on.... see where my frustration comes from?

my suggestion is to start strictly adhereing to it. we've allowed our elected officials to compromise its principles for too long. The original topic of this thread is another example. So it seems we agree?

yes i agree with some of what you have said and i agree that it has been trampled upon. but the thing that people need to understand is that this all did not suddenly occur in january 2009 and it can not be fixed with the wave of a magic wand. do you know what it takes to ammend the constitution? do you know how difficult it is to change or alter an ammendment? in this climate it would take near universal approval between the house, senate, and state governments, and at this time there is no way any of them will agree to anything. we are screwed in this current climate.

the problem is everyone has accumulated more power since the constitution was ratified. the president has gained power given to gwb after 9/11. obama mentioned he was going to relinquish some of that power and he hasn't. nobody is going to give away power and weaken their position in government. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

and with the electorate the way it is, we have people still believing obama was born in kenya, so how does anyone think that this electorate if going to educate themselves on what the founders intended and what we have now and how to go about repairing it? unless glee becomes a civics lesson program and unless american idol would be for the presidency then this population will never have the attention span to grasp the things that you and ron paul are saying.

i don't know how we go about adhering to it now when it has become toilet paper for those in our government going back over 100 years. the ants are out of the anthill, and trying to fix things is like picking up all of the ants and putting them back in the anthill.

but as far as the thread topic, i am not buying the idea that an employer's freedom to decide what health care is provided is being trampled upon. to me, if you are going to provide something like health insurance, why half ass it? either they are in or they are out. we can't have employers sticking their toe in the water and pulling back. you are either in or you are out. and the other question is whose freedom is more important, the employer or the employee??

gimmesometruth27

WaveRyder wrote:

you missed one

The treasury charged with regulating currency: Since 1911 or 1913 (cant remember right off hand) our currency has been regulated by a central bank - THE FED - not the government. Just another breach of the Constitution.

yeah i missed one. i was going to look that up and add to it last night but i got distracted and forgot about it.

whygohome

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

and what is it about the Constitution and the bill of rights that is so outdated?

the right to due process
free speech
the right to vote
Congress having the power to declare war and not the president
The treasury charged with regulating currency
property rights
the right to bear arms
protection from unlawful search and seizure
the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial
the right to a speedy and fair trial
the right to state provided attorney
protection from cruel and unusual punishment

What is it about these principles that is so outdated? Please fill me in. Please

let's see...here is what we have today...the constitution completely being abused and distorted...

the right to due process unless you are hispanic, black, or of middle eastern descent, in which case the odds are stacked against you. just look at the demographics in our nation's prisons..and look at all of the gitmo detainees who were never charged with anything...just held for years with no charges, no trials, and no hearing in front of a military tribunal....

free speech to a certain extent. hate speech from the tea party and those on the right seems to be acceptable, and it is possible to run an entire political campaign paid for by superpacs who base the entire campaign on making up shit and attacking the other guy and not having to prove the accusations, so in that regard free speech is being abused. and do not get me started on citizen's united where corporations are people and money is speech

the right to vote unless you live in the south where mandatory picture ids are being required to vote and as such people are being disenfrancised

Congress having the power to declare war and not the president funnily enough congress is the most dysfunctional it has ever been. it is so divided. congress would rather let the economy collapse rather than see obama succeed at anything. some people call that good policy, when in actuality it is nothing more than being a dick.

The treasury charged with regulating currency

property rights people have the right to acquire property. when this was written PEOPLE were considered property...

the right to bear arms this is outdated. the intent of the founding fathers with this was to allow people to protect themselves from the brits, such as when british soldiers were quarterd in american homes, which is completely irrelevent in today's reality..

protection from unlawful search and seizure LOL patriot act anyone? there is no equal protection under the law and you can be unreasonably searched for anything at all these days.

the right to not incriminate yourself while on trial coerced confessions anyone? this happens all the time. especially in cases of people who are in gitmo or were at other black site prisons...

the right to a speedy and fair trial people do get trials. most times they are not "speedy" (ie gitmo detainees) and most times, but not all times, they are fair.

the right to state provided attorney do people really want a public defender these days? if you want to get off or stay out of a long jail sentence you have to pay someone to get you off...

protection from cruel and unusual punishment death penalty is still legal, and we are still torturing people...

and that was just from the top of my head. if i really wanted to i could go through and find more examples. it does appear that this constitution has been shat upon. so how do ya suppose we clean up the mess??

beat me to it, gimmie..............

whygohome

_ wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

it depends how old you are I suppose. I didnt make that up, its a commonly used figure of speech.


and WHYGOHOME just admitted having no regard for the constitution. like it or not, that is the doctrine that is suppose to give our country some sort of direction. How can you disrespect something intended to protect YOUR rights as a human being?

He expressed neither disregard nor disrespect for the Constitution. What he expressed disregard & disrespect for are the people who think they have some kind of inside scoop on how the founding fathers would apply it to present times.

Regardless, having just won Ed solo tickets through both 10C and the radio today, I'm in way too good a mood to continue with this discussion.

That's pretty much it. I thought it was obvious.
I'm just kind of tired of this hiding behind and quoting the founding fathers (slave owners) and Constitution shit.

MayDay Malone

whygohome wrote:

_ wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

it depends how old you are I suppose. I didnt make that up, its a commonly used figure of speech.


and WHYGOHOME just admitted having no regard for the constitution. like it or not, that is the doctrine that is suppose to give our country some sort of direction. How can you disrespect something intended to protect YOUR rights as a human being?

He expressed neither disregard nor disrespect for the Constitution. What he expressed disregard & disrespect for are the people who think they have some kind of inside scoop on how the founding fathers would apply it to present times.

Regardless, having just won Ed solo tickets through both 10C and the radio today, I'm in way too good a mood to continue with this discussion.

That's pretty much it. I thought it was obvious.
I'm just kind of tired of this hiding behind and quoting the founding fathers (slave owners) and Constitution shit.

What a forward thinker you are.

whygohome

MayDay Malone wrote:

whygohome wrote:

That's pretty much it. I thought it was obvious.
I'm just kind of tired of this hiding behind and quoting the founding fathers (slave owners) and Constitution shit.

What a forward thinker you are.

Thank you. What a backward thinker you are.

WaveRyder

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

but the thing that people need to understand is that this all did not suddenly occur in january 2009 and it can not be fixed with the wave of a magic wand.


the problem is everyone has accumulated more power since the constitution was ratified. the president has gained power given to gwb after 9/11. obama mentioned he was going to relinquish some of that power and he hasn't. nobody is going to give away power and weaken their position in government. absolute power corrupts absolutely.


unless glee becomes a civics lesson program and unless american idol would be for the presidency then this population will never have the attention span to grasp the things that you and ron paul are saying.

question is whose freedom is more important, the employer or the employee??

were just gooing in circles here.

three things i want to address from you post.
1. I never claimed Obama did any more trampling than Bush. I despised Bush's actions as president and every day that goes by I begin to despise Obama's actions as president more and more. I am not a partisan guy.

2. Im glad you mentioned Ron Paul. You say no one elected would ever give up any power...... thats the main reason I am so devoted to supporting Paul's ideas. And I would argue this "revolution" wont die with his campaign.

3. whose freedom is more important, the employer or the employee = BOTH! Under current law, freedom lies with both. (kind of.. the third party payer system is inherently broken and should be fixed. Employers shouldnt have a hand in individuals insurance. Insurance should go with the person, therefor if you lose your job you dont lose your insurance just because your unemployed.)

and with that, im tapping out of this consversation because, like i said, we're just going in circles here.

WaveRyder

“We need to surrender our attachments to government in every aspect of life. This goes for the right and the left. We need to give up our dependencies on the state, materially and spiritually. We should not look to the state to provide for us financially or psychologically… Let us understand that it is far better to live in an imperfect world than it is to live in a despotic world ruled by people who lord it over us through force and intimidation.” - Ron Paul


now im tapping out. sorry. good luck everybody and sorry if things got personal. I wish you all the best.

WaveRyder

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/1432320073001/

WaveRyder

To the point of the original post.....even left leaning editorial boards agree with me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/ed ... 52975796/1

The thumbnail nails it "We're sympathetic to the medical reasoning, but good intentions are not sufficient grounds to override the First Amendment."

The Times and Newsweek have run similar editorials.

"Few Americans of any political stripe would disagree with the simple proposition that the government should steer away from meddling in church affairs. Certainly, it should never try to force a religiously affiliated institution to violate a central tenet of its faith.

Yet in drawing up the rules that will govern health care reform, the Obama administration didn't just cross that line. It galloped over it, requiring employers affiliated with the Catholic Church to include free birth control in their health insurance plans. That's contrary to both Catholic doctrine and constitutional guarantees of religious freedom."

Not that I needed to read it to know i am right on this issue, this makes me feel so validated, and so sad for you guys.

_

WaveRyder wrote:

Not that I needed to read it to know i am right on this issue, this makes me feel so validated, and so sad for you guys.

Really? More ego & insults?? :roll:

WaveRyder

_ wrote:

WaveRyder wrote:

To the point of the original post.....even left leaning editorial boards agree with me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/ed ... 52975796/1

The Times and Newsweek have run similar editorials.

"Few Americans of any political stripe would disagree with the simple proposition that the government should steer away from meddling in church affairs. Certainly, it should never try to force a religiously affiliated institution to violate a central tenet of its faith.

Yet in drawing up the rules that will govern health care reform, the Obama administration didn't just cross that line. It galloped over it, requiring employers affiliated with the Catholic Church to include free birth control in their health insurance plans. That's contrary to both Catholic doctrine and constitutional guarantees of religious freedom."

Not that I needed to read it to know i am right on this issue, this makes me feel so validated, and so sad for you guys.

It's funny that I never noticed what a pompous ass you are until this thread. So sad for you.

i got revoked from the boards for two weeks for making insulting posts like this once. I hope Kat and the rest notice.

but to your post, you don't come back with an a point, just an insult.... very telling.