obama is a marxist?

Jason P wrote:

In theory, it sounds great. But no one in the U.S., be it a C.E.O. or a labor union, is willing (or could) adapt such a philosophy. Most large countries that have tried to force the philosophy have failed or are running behind the guise the the philosophy so they can control the masses with an iron fist (all while maintaining a capitalistic economy).

By the way, I'm not sure where I'm heading with these thoughts. :geek:

you're heading en route to a 6 - 1 blowout loss in your home building ...

most countries that adopt this philosophy are successful ... again ... look at all the indexes for living and you're routinely find socialist based countries ... places like germany, norway, etc ...

without derailing the thread even more ... it has long been my belief that the root of all evil is greed and in the US - greed is rewarded and commended ... that is why we are where we are ...

RW81233 wrote:

i do find it funny that people argue that socialism never works, when, if you cut through all our propaganda, you could make the same argument against capitalism - pretty convincingly as well.

the thing is - it isn't socialism vs. capitalism ... it's gonna be some hybrid ... obviously, no system is perfect as we are talking about integrating the ideals and objectives of a whack load of people ...

RW81233 wrote:

what are you afraid of? learning that maybe you didn't earn everything you got? that because your white straight and have dick you can walk around this country with unearned privileges? i don't think that means you hate yourself or your country it just makes you understand why you got what you got a little bit better. if you choose to be a straight up right wing capitalist then fine, but you gotta defend your position. i can show you my grading rubrics and exam questions - you can answer them in any way you wish. of course it's easier for you to offer gingrichian fear of indoctrination rather than actually know what you're talking about.

Every straight white guy has unearned privileges? What if at one point a white guy thinks he is gay and then determines he is straight? Is everything he earned restored to unearned? :ugeek:

How does hair color factor in as well? Do blondes have an advantage over redheads?

Also, it seems like there were quite a few white guys in the OWS encampments. Are they all gay?

MayDay Malone wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

what are you afraid of? learning that maybe you didn't earn everything you got? that because your white straight and have dick you can walk around this country with unearned privileges? i don't think that means you hate yourself or your country it just makes you understand why you got what you got a little bit better. if you choose to be a straight up right wing capitalist then fine, but you gotta defend your position. i can show you my grading rubrics and exam questions - you can answer them in any way you wish. of course it's easier for you to offer gingrichian fear of indoctrination rather than actually know what you're talking about.

You're a trip, Teach.

Sorry you're so ashamed that you're white. Maybe that guilt can help elect another half-black guy, if it makes you feel better.

Sounds like you spend a lot of time thinking about peoples color. Especially you're own.

I DO NOT.

not ashamed of anything i am who i am...i just want to understand why i like and value things i do, and why i don't like other things...seems to me you don't like to think.

when's the last time you got followed around while shopping b/c of the color of your skin, that you had to fight for the right to get married, that you had to endure a boss who demeaned you because of your gender, etc.? i think and do my friend...going to Dominican Republic next month to build houses and help families whose only opportunity in life is to play baseball because the U.S. has so thoroughly fucked their country over. of course that is probably some sort of socialism that you can't stand - we should just let them die because it's their choice... :roll:

RW81233 wrote:

you're not getting it. yes every white straight male has unearned privileges in a society that overvalues those traits. at the same time you can have privilege and screw up or not take advantage of them at the same level as others. just because you don't have unearned privilege doesn't mean you can't "make it" in America, it just means that maybe you have to work a little harder or make more connections. Why are you afraid to admit that you didn't get everything you got just because you "worked harder" for it than others, that maybe the breaks came your way partially because of things beyond your control, that people treat you differently because of the way you look? Your response is not as nuanced as most of your other ones...not sure why.

It's not as nuanced because I find your assertion somewhat insulting from a personal standpoint. My break in life was having a stable family to support and love me and instill hard-working ethics and I consider myself lucky in that regard. But I'm not going to feel guilty about it.

RW81233 wrote:

I'm not telling you to feel guilty about it...just recognize it (which you just did), and maybe realize that not everyone had what you had thereby dramatically altering the lives that they live. I got lucky to have a great family, and many other things go my way that got me here. Conversely, many of the people that Occupy or do things like sell drugs on the street corner didn't have the same breaks. I'm not going to look down at them, but rather understand the social structures that made that shit possible and try to change it. I think it's easier to believe that you got to where you got solely because you worked hard, but it's not true. As Marx once wrote 'history weighs like an alp on the minds and bodies of the present'.

Interesting thoughts..I was just having a conversation with my wife about a job she is applying for. She was considering putting just her first initial and her last name because if they were to see she was a woman, she has seen companies in her marketing field give better salaries to men that do the same jobs as her. Women with the name Samantha, aka "Sam" might just get out of the gates with a better advantage on paper.

I agree with you RW, and it seems like some people might have tried to put words in your mouth. I never got that you said anyone should feel guilty, but rather just to acknowledge that society allows for things to be easier if you fall in a certain criteria. There's no way to argue against that. And if you've got some money, you're even better off, of course. Ps - South Florida is filled with the kings and queens of inheritance, and its fucking ugly.

If you're just a DO-er, and you want to ignore how you got what you got, thats fine too, of course.