"Good on ya"...in the seventies, I lived & breathed a glorious band...it was all about Led Zeppelin. Cut to 1980, we had tickets to see them at the Pontiac Silverdome. Could of been level 1 at the 50 yard line, could of been holding kleenex to my nose..I DID NOT CARE...we were going to experience the most amazing night of our lives! Two weeks later...John Bonham was dead...fan devastation. Tickets useless. No more Zeppelin. Afterwards, through the years, I saw Plant, alone, with Page. I saw Page, with Plant, with other bands, all amazing but not the same, not ever again. And then, thinking the magic would never happen again...1991 (for me), along came Pearl Jam. A friend brought a tape to one of my infamous parties. I was hooked.
I may be a new paying member here, but I am not new to this site...many times over the years I have read the forums, I just could not post. While I always wanted to join, I never did, until this year. Getting tickets was an afterthought. I don't mind sitting up in the nether-regions...how fricken amazing to see the undulating masses below, to see the panorama of lighters glowing, to be a part of thousands singing along. I get the passion of wanting to catch a pick, or have Ed point at you. My inner self longs to be front & centre just once & I am insanely jealous of seeing how many concerts some are so lucky to have been a part of. Anyway, I'm am sorry for the dissappointments, gawd, life is so fuckin' full of them. My friend lost her stomach, spleen, small intestines etc to cancer, she couldn't eat for a couple of months. However, she saw Kid Rock not long ago, up in the nose-bleeds & was just happy to BE.
My reasons for being here now? My passion for this band, their music, & their commitment to the music, which has never wavered. Got my shirt, I like it...got my first PJ vinyl yesterday, lovely. Most importantly, I've got my music. We've still got Pearl Jam, after 20 years!! Still, making the music...give me more.
Already I have seen the generous people here, joined the Secret Santa group, met new friends, laughed my ass off at "why now you don't be bitching??", helped when I could, received e-mails, friend requests out of the blue etc.
So far, its been great & the next time, fingers crossed, Pearl Jam comes to Michigan (because I don't think Windsor is on their to-play list) hopefully I'll be up in the bleeder section, where I can just BE.
"Good on ya"...in the seventies, I lived & breathed a glorious band...it was all about Led Zeppelin. Cut to 1980, we had tickets to see them at the Pontiac Silverdome. Could of been level 1 at the 50 yard line, could of been holding kleenex to my nose..I DID NOT CARE...we were going to experience the most amazing night of our lives! Two weeks later...John Bonham was dead...fan devastation. Tickets useless. No more Zeppelin. Afterwards, through the years, I saw Plant, alone, with Page. I saw Page, with Plant, with other bands, all amazing but not the same, not ever again. And then, thinking the magic would never happen again...1991 (for me), along came Pearl Jam. A friend brought a tape to one of my infamous parties. I was hooked.
I may be a new paying member here, but I am not new to this site...many times over the years I have read the forums, I just could not post. While I always wanted to join, I never did, until this year. Getting tickets was an afterthought. I don't mind sitting up in the nether-regions...how fricken amazing to see the undulating masses below, to see the panorama of lighters glowing, to be a part of thousands singing along. I get the passion of wanting to catch a pick, or have Ed point at you. My inner self longs to be front & centre just once & I am insanely jealous of seeing how many concerts some are so lucky to have been a part of. Anyway, I'm am sorry for the dissappointments, gawd, life is so fuckin' full of them. My friend lost her stomach, spleen, small intestines etc to cancer, she couldn't eat for a couple of months. However, she saw Kid Rock not long ago, up in the nose-bleeds & was just happy to BE.
My reasons for being here now? My passion for this band, their music, & their commitment to the music, which has never wavered. Got my shirt, I like it...got my first PJ vinyl yesterday, lovely. Most importantly, I've got my music. We've still got Pearl Jam, after 20 years!! Still, making the music...give me more.
Already I have seen the generous people here, joined the Secret Santa group, met new friends, laughed my ass off at "why now you don't be bitching??", helped when I could, received e-mails, friend requests out of the blue etc.
So far, its been great & the next time, fingers crossed, Pearl Jam comes to Michigan (because I don't think Windsor is on their to-play list) hopefully I'll be up in the bleeder section, where I can just BE.
Hey, it could be, some of us just decided to express our love for one of the Beastie Boys' songs in a purely coincidental manner to when someone on some site chose to use a particular word on a posting.
Not me, I just did it to take the piss
115 bucks for half a haircut by a novice? I want my money back!
Honestly.. #1 reason to join 10C.. priority tickets.
I love the band and all.... showing my love is one thing... paying $25/year is something totally different.
In this day and age when we pay for something we want something for return unless we're giving to a charity but given the amount of money Pearl Jam makes... they're far from a charity.
So if they did way with ticketing... huge loss in revenue.. huge drop in membership numbers.
Again it has nothing to do with the love of the band. If they stopped doing 10C ticketing.. I wouldn't like the band less... but I certainly wouldn't pay to join their fanclub.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
You hold the ultimate power. You can just walk away and never write another check or swipe another card to the Ten Club.
This is like, the biggest factor here. It's not about the bitching. It's the entitlement issues. Since fans refuse to compromise their issues with entitlement, then they should recognize their choices here, because we've been complaining for years for better service with little being done. At this point, fans need to realize that they have two choices here:
a. Deal with it.
b. stop paying 10c your god damn money.
I don't like that mentality around here.... (no disrespect at all)
But.. you know folks around here keep saying "deal with it.." "if you don't like it then leave"
We just want to speak our minds here. And those should not be the only choices we have. I think if we all thought that way, 10C would have so much power they wouldn't need to care or be held accountable for anything.
Yeah there is a lot of bitching around here and some of it completely unnecessary... but I'm also seeing a lot of folks who are just ultra devoted and love the band and 10C unconditionally.
I think there are a lot of folks on here who think: "I don't care...do what you want 10C... I love you.. I'll never complain... you're perfect no matter what you do.... and if those complainers don't feel the same way.. then they can leave!"
If I was a business.. I would love all of my customers to be that way!!! It would make things REALLY easy. No accountability.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
Honestly.. #1 reason to join 10C.. priority tickets.
I love the band and all.... showing my love is one thing... paying $25/year is something totally different.
In this day and age when we pay for something we want something for return unless we're giving to a charity but given the amount of money Pearl Jam makes... they're far from a charity.
So if they did way with ticketing... huge loss in revenue.. huge drop in membership numbers.
Again it has nothing to do with the love of the band. If they stopped doing 10C ticketing.. I wouldn't like the band less... but I certainly wouldn't pay to join their fanclub.
When you sign up for the Ten Club all it states is you will have a chance for Ten Club tickets. On Tuesday, we did have a chance. It was a small crappy chance, but it was a chance. There are alot of other perks with the annual membership. I really think you over estimate how many fan club members would leave if the ticket presales were discontinued in my opinion.
I've said my piece on the ticket issue. I doubt it will do any good, but I doubt it will do any harm, either. No one needs to be told to "tread lightly". Speak your mind. 10C deserved all the criticism they received this week. If they yank our ticket benefits as a result then they will deserve even more.
PS -- I am in the club for the community, not the chance at tickets. This is membership #3 for me and I have a number in the 400 range. If the ticket benefit went away I would still want to be part of the community. It just shouldn't be taken away because didn't "tread lightly" on the message board.
You hold the ultimate power. You can just walk away and never write another check or swipe another card to the Ten Club.
This is like, the biggest factor here. It's not about the bitching. It's the entitlement issues. Since fans refuse to compromise their issues with entitlement, then they should recognize their choices here, because we've been complaining for years for better service with little being done. At this point, fans need to realize that they have two choices here:
a. Deal with it.
b. stop paying 10c your god damn money.
I don't like that mentality around here.... (no disrespect at all)
But.. you know folks around here keep saying "deal with it.." "if you don't like it then leave"
We just want to speak our minds here. And those should not be the only choices we have. I think if we all thought that way, 10C would have so much power they wouldn't need to care or be held accountable for anything.
Yeah there is a lot of bitching around here and some of it completely unnecessary... but I'm also seeing a lot of folks who are just ultra devoted and love the band and 10C unconditionally.
I think there are a lot of folks on here who think: "I don't care...do what you want 10C... I love you.. I'll never complain... you're perfect no matter what you do.... and if those complainers don't feel the same way.. then they can leave!"
If I was a business.. I would love all of my customers to be that way!!! It would make things REALLY easy. No accountability.
I'm all for voicing opinions. What I meant when I wrote that is that many people have been voicing their opinions about the business style and misgivings of the club for a long time now. It's clear that they don't care what we think. We cannot change the way 10c does business. Therefore we have those 2 choices I mentioned. They're not appealing, I know. But as fans, we're not entitled to anything here. We need to recognize and shift our perceptions of the organization to making the right choices for ourselves. They do not deserve unconditional love but the problems are not completely theirs when the fan base is too large to please everyone. I actually worry about fans who devote their undying love to 10c and/or the band. It's completely unhealthy. There's a real lack of the fans' potential to look at themselves as being part of the big picture problem here. If collectively we accepted that there cannot be a 10c ticket for everyone who wants one, the problem would be partially solved.
Well said in the original post DS1119. The dissatisfaction is justified because the last few pre-sales have been far from smooth but at the same time, all these people who act like the folks at the 10C are sitting in some dark lair, like evil villains enjoying the fact that we all aren't getting tickets are asinine. 10C is struggling for solutions right now, but "Believe You Me", they ARE looking for solutions. The people who throw out their "sure-fire" ways to fix everything don't know the details of what is going on or the limitations that the club might be up against so in essence, have no idea what they are talking about. I'm with you and have been here since the 90's. The ticket access is the biggest perk to the club but it is just that...A PERK, not an entitlement. Yes the pre-sales have gone poorly as of late, but vehemently attacking the 10C staff isn't helping anything or anyone.
I've said my piece on the ticket issue. I doubt it will do any good, but I doubt it will do any harm, either. No one needs to be told to "tread lightly". Speak your mind. 10C deserved all the criticism they received this week. If they yank our ticket benefits as a result then they will deserve even more.
PS -- I am in the club for the community, not the chance at tickets. This is membership #3 for me and I have a number in the 400 range. If the ticket benefit went away I would still want to be part of the community. It just shouldn't be taken away because didn't "tread lightly" on the message board.
By tread lightly I mean if people just keep bitching...the Club just might give up on the ticket thing and just concentrate on merchandise. Something realistically they are leaving quite a bit of money on the table with.
I posted this elsewhere but wanted to share my thoughts here also...
10C has me listed as a member since 2008 but I have actually been a member on and off (more on then off) since I was 12 years old, beginning in 1994, under my maiden name. I have the Christmas singles to prove it. I must say that I have always hoped to get tickets to the shows that I have attended through the 10C and this tour is the time it really paid off. I got tickets to Eddie's solo tour through 10C and the seats were not great. Seats in the past that I have gotten through 10C for West Palm Beach and Mansfield, MA were not great either. WITH THAT SAID, at least I got tickets. I am not a member of the 10C solely for ticket benefits. I am a member because Pearl Jam is the GREATEST BAND EVER! Their music and lyrics got me through my turmultous teenage years, and they have gotten me through many difficulties throughout my life. I feel a deep spiritual connection to their music, to their lyrics, as if they have been written just for me. And the 10C offers me the closest thing to a relationship with the band. This is about LOVE, people! LOVE of the MUSIC, LOVE of the BAND. FORTHELOVEOFPEARLJAM
Share the LOVE
September 15, 1998 Mansfield MA/ August 29, 2000 Mansfield, MA/ June 11, 2008 West Palm Beach, FL/ July 2, 2012 Prague, Czech Republic/ July 4, 2012 Berlin, Germany/ July 5, 2012 Berlin, Germany/ September 21, 2012 Pensacola, FL/ July 16, 2013 London, ON, Canada/ July 19, 2013 Chicago, IL/ October 12, 2013 Buffalo, NY/ October 25, 2013 Hartford, CT/ November 23, 2013 Los Angeles, CA/ November 24, 2013 Los Angeles, CA/ November 26, 2013 Oakland, CA/ November 29, 2013 Portland, OR/ November 30, 2013 Spokane, WA
I posted this elsewhere but wanted to share my thoughts here also...
10C has me listed as a member since 2008 but I have actually been a member on and off (more on then off) since I was 12 years old, beginning in 1994, under my maiden name. I have the Christmas singles to prove it. I must say that I have always hoped to get tickets to the shows that I have attended through the 10C and this tour is the time it really paid off. I got tickets to Eddie's solo tour through 10C and the seats were not great. Seats in the past that I have gotten through 10C for West Palm Beach and Mansfield, MA were not great either. WITH THAT SAID, at least I got tickets. I am not a member of the 10C solely for ticket benefits. I am a member because Pearl Jam is the GREATEST BAND EVER! Their music and lyrics got me through my turmultous teenage years, and they have gotten me through many difficulties throughout my life. I feel a deep spiritual connection to their music, to their lyrics, as if they have been written just for me. And the 10C offers me the closest thing to a relationship with the band. This is about LOVE, people! LOVE of the MUSIC, LOVE of the BAND. FORTHELOVEOFPEARLJAM
Share the LOVE
no presale will mean hardly any 10c especially as we've been getting less and less for our money outside the presales (an mp3 of live songs, content-free newsletter, both you never know if they'll even materialise! a forum that used to be free and that many if not most don't use, a radio that you can only access on the internet, sorry, love Rob but not the way I listen to radio, and the right to buy overpriced merch).
I would bet over 90% of those that are on the digital membership now would drop out (the ONLY thing I miss from the analog is the vinyl.. not worth $30 extra!)
it also will mean far less community as far less touring because trying to get multiple shows in general sales, let alone when it's in different countries with different languages, is a massive hassle, as we've just seen.
So lots of people will give up entirely on touring, which is the foundation of the community.
Frankly right now I think there's a lot of European members that are seriously thinking about dropping their membership anyway.. you can only get treated like 2nd class people for so long (it's not just the presale fuck up in itself but the utter contempt showed in the lack of communication).
and who knows how many tickets they sold via crowdsurge already? maybe they sold 80% already, but still 60% of people are complaining - who might not have been able to get tickets via crowdsurge anyway?
actually, I talked to Crowdsurge shortly before they pulled the plug and they said there was PLENTY left.
They even said more specifically 'not half the Manchester seats' (of which there was supposed to be only a small allocation as per 10c email) were gone yet.
So I'd be surprised if more than 30% (and possibly far less judging by the amount of my PJ friends that left empty handed) of tix were bought in the presale.
ticket pre sales are overrated. who cares if you get front row, or 74th, at a concert? you're seeing the same show. i would understand if the pre sales had tickets that allowed you to sit side stage.. now that would be worth fighting for.
actually you're not seeing the same show if you're 74th row (certainly not when you're under 6'), you're hearing the same show ;-)
I've said my piece on the ticket issue. I doubt it will do any good, but I doubt it will do any harm, either. No one needs to be told to "tread lightly". Speak your mind. 10C deserved all the criticism they received this week. If they yank our ticket benefits as a result then they will deserve even more.
PS -- I am in the club for the community, not the chance at tickets. This is membership #3 for me and I have a number in the 400 range. If the ticket benefit went away I would still want to be part of the community. It just shouldn't be taken away because didn't "tread lightly" on the message board.
I can't speak for the OP, but I don't necessarily think he's saying "Don't speak your mind". I think what he might be trying to say...or what I'M definitely trying to say is that demanding people's jobs within 10C be lost, requesting ridiculous solutions to problems that none of us know the full details or extent of, or demanding immediate and full responses to any and all questions and concerns is becoming way out of hand and really childish.
I've said my piece on the ticket issue. I doubt it will do any good, but I doubt it will do any harm, either. No one needs to be told to "tread lightly". Speak your mind. 10C deserved all the criticism they received this week. If they yank our ticket benefits as a result then they will deserve even more.
PS -- I am in the club for the community, not the chance at tickets. This is membership #3 for me and I have a number in the 400 range. If the ticket benefit went away I would still want to be part of the community. It just shouldn't be taken away because didn't "tread lightly" on the message board.
I can't speak for the OP, but I don't necessarily think he's saying "Don't speak your mind". I think what he might be trying to say...or what I'M definitely trying to say is that demanding people's jobs within 10C be lost, requesting ridiculous solutions to problems that none of us know the full details or extent of, or demanding immediate and full responses to any and all questions and concerns is becoming way out of hand and really childish.
I would be gutted if TC stopped offering tickets, it's certainly been the reason why I've been a member over the past 18 years and renewed without fail every year. I haven't always been able to get tickets and I;ve experience tying to get tickets for PJ20. I don't like what's happened here and for PJ20 but I'm not going to stop listening to PJ or cancel my membership. So yes I agee with you that some people are being totally OTT about this.
My PJ shows:
London 28/10/96, Las Vegas 11/7/98, London 29/5/00, Nurnburg 11/6/00, Prague 14/6/00, Salzburg 18/6/00, Verona 20/6/00, Milan 22/6/00, Zurich 23/6/00, New York 8-9/7/03, Boston 11/7/03, Reading Festival 27/8/06, Shepards Bush 11/8/09, Berlin 15/8/09, Manchester 17/8/09, London 18/8/09, Dublin 22/6/10, Belfast 23/6/10, London (HRC) 25/6/10, Alpine Valley (PJ20) 3-4/9/11, Manchester 20-21/6/12, Leeds 8/7/14, Milton Keynes 11/7/14 To be continued....
no presale will mean hardly any 10c especially as we've been getting less and less for our money outside the presales (an mp3 of live songs, content-free newsletter, both you never know if they'll even materialise! a forum that used to be free and that many if not most don't use, a radio that you can only access on the internet, sorry, love Rob but not the way I listen to radio, and the right to buy overpriced merch).
I would bet over 90% of those that are on the digital membership now would drop out (the ONLY thing I miss from the analog is the vinyl.. not worth $30 extra!)
it also will mean far less community as far less touring because trying to get multiple shows in general sales, let alone when it's in different countries with different languages, is a massive hassle, as we've just seen.
So lots of people will give up entirely on touring, which is the foundation of the community.
Frankly right now I think there's a lot of European members that are seriously thinking about dropping their membership anyway.. you can only get treated like 2nd class people for so long (it's not just the presale fuck up in itself but the utter contempt showed in the lack of communication).
and who knows how many tickets they sold via crowdsurge already? maybe they sold 80% already, but still 60% of people are complaining - who might not have been able to get tickets via crowdsurge anyway?
actually, I talked to Crowdsurge shortly before they pulled the plug and they said there was PLENTY left.
They even said more specifically 'not half the Manchester seats' (of which there was supposed to be only a small allocation as per 10c email) were gone yet.
So I'd be surprised if more than 30% (and possibly far less judging by the amount of my PJ friends that left empty handed) of tix were bought in the presale.
ticket pre sales are overrated. who cares if you get front row, or 74th, at a concert? you're seeing the same show. i would understand if the pre sales had tickets that allowed you to sit side stage.. now that would be worth fighting for.
actually you're not seeing the same show if you're 74th row (certainly not when you're under 6'), you're hearing the same show ;-)
I think you"re dramtically under estimating the loyalty of the fan base with regards to how many people would leave. Also, in regard to talking to CrowdSurge and them telling you there's pleanty of tickets available. What do you think they are going to tell you? They want you to go to their site and buy tickets. Do you think over the phone they would say to a buyer "no sir or mam, we have such a short supply of tickets left, if I were you I wouldn't waste my time"?
I've said my piece on the ticket issue. I doubt it will do any good, but I doubt it will do any harm, either. No one needs to be told to "tread lightly". Speak your mind. 10C deserved all the criticism they received this week. If they yank our ticket benefits as a result then they will deserve even more.
PS -- I am in the club for the community, not the chance at tickets. This is membership #3 for me and I have a number in the 400 range. If the ticket benefit went away I would still want to be part of the community. It just shouldn't be taken away because didn't "tread lightly" on the message board.
I can't speak for the OP, but I don't necessarily think he's saying "Don't speak your mind". I think what he might be trying to say...or what I'M definitely trying to say is that demanding people's jobs within 10C be lost, requesting ridiculous solutions to problems that none of us know the full details or extent of, or demanding immediate and full responses to any and all questions and concerns is becoming way out of hand and really childish.
I agree that the complaining has gotten completely out of hand, but I do think in this case it is warranted. If we were talking about the backpack or the BluRay or something similar it would be one thing, but we are not. In this case, given the long history of ticket sale issues and poor communication, I just can't see urging people to tread lightly.
But I do hear what both you and DS119 are saying. I just don't think we should let 10C off the hook this time. It's a shitty way to feel and I don't like it. I wish none of this had gone down the way that it did. But it has.
I definitely agree with what fortheloveofpearljam said! :thumbup:
I am not here mainly for the tickets either-I am here for the love of this incredible band and this community of fans. I just joined in May 2011, as I recently discovered PJ in 2010. When I first joined, I remember thinking that if I get tickets for concerts through 10c that's great, but if not, I'll find them elsewhere. If 10c does decide not to do pre-sale tickets anymore, I will still remain a member, as my first priority is my loyalty to PJ and loving being part of a community of fans who feel the same way!!
I agree that the complaining has gotten completely out of hand, but I do think in this case it is warranted. If we were talking about the backpack or the BluRay or something similar it would be one thing, but we are not. In this case, given the long history of ticket sale issues and poor communication, I just can't see urging people to tread lightly.
But I do hear what both you and DS119 are saying. I just don't think we should let 10C off the hook this time. It's a shitty way to feel and I don't like it. I wish none of this had gone down the way that it did. But it has.
No one here has the facts. I'm not even sure the Ten Club has all of the facts. I just find it strange that the Ten CLub has had issues with tickets for a year or so, and now they go to an outside reputable vendor and they have issues as well? Let's just let them figure out what happened before we maybe end up costing ourselves this privilege in the future.
I think you"re dramtically under estimating the loyalty of the fan base with regards to how many people would leave. Also, in regard to talking to CrowdSurge and them telling you there's plenty of tickets available. What do you think they are going to tell you? They want you to go to their site and buy tickets. Do you think over the phone they would say to a buyer "no sir or mam, we have such a short supply of tickets left, if I were you I wouldn't waste my time"?
And I think you're overestimating if you think the whole membership is like the few that post here (out of the 90000 registered paid members on the forum, 70000 have NEVER posted, and only 8000 have more than 10 posts).. so over 90% of the membership is no reflected here.
And the guy I talked to at crowdsurge wasn't a salesman and there was nothing in his tone or the way the conversation went to indicate he was bullshitting (they seemed peeved that the site wasn't working properly though); beside, it actually would have been in their interest at that point that less people hammered their site and then the rest might have been able to buy the remaining tickets..
I think you"re dramtically under estimating the loyalty of the fan base with regards to how many people would leave. Also, in regard to talking to CrowdSurge and them telling you there's plenty of tickets available. What do you think they are going to tell you? They want you to go to their site and buy tickets. Do you think over the phone they would say to a buyer "no sir or mam, we have such a short supply of tickets left, if I were you I wouldn't waste my time"?
And I think you're overestimating if you think the whole membership is like the few that post here (out of the 90000 registered paid members on the forum, 70000 have NEVER posted, and only 8000 have more than 10 posts).. so over 90% of the membership is no reflected here.
And the guy I talked to at crowdsurge wasn't a salesman and there was nothing in his tone or the way the conversation went to indicate he was bullshitting (they seemed peeved that the site wasn't working properly though); beside, it actually would have been in their interest at that point that less people hammered their site and then the rest might have been able to buy the remaining tickets..
Actually the Ten Club has gone on record stating the count on the site is incorrect. There's actually over 200,000 fan club members. Also, you mentioned the guy at CrowdSurge seemed peeved the site wasn't working. I guess that's the Ten CLub's fault? I guess I'll agree to disagree as we both can have our opinions. All I can say is if we keep bitching the fan club at some point may just say fucki it with the presale. ANd to the members who feel that would be the end of the club...you have seen the price of PJ merchandise on Ebay correct? They could just keep cranking out limited edition merchandise left and right and the masses would keep lining up.
I think we need to tread lightly or otherwise the ten club won't inform us when there is a show added before it goes on sale. Or before it's sold out. Oh wait...
At this point, I don't even care anymore. I have crossed oceans and done impossible things to follow this band around, but now I don't feel it's worth it anymore. I can't catch up with what is at best incompetence and at worst bad faith. Thinking that the band can't have enough oversight of its fan club to manage things with a minimum of decency makes being in Manchester and not being able to go to the second gig honestly a matter of indifference.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
I agree that the complaining has gotten completely out of hand, but I do think in this case it is warranted. If we were talking about the backpack or the BluRay or something similar it would be one thing, but we are not. In this case, given the long history of ticket sale issues and poor communication, I just can't see urging people to tread lightly.
But I do hear what both you and DS119 are saying. I just don't think we should let 10C off the hook this time. It's a shitty way to feel and I don't like it. I wish none of this had gone down the way that it did. But it has.
No one here has the facts. I'm not even sure the Ten Club has all of the facts. I just find it strange that the Ten CLub has had issues with tickets for a year or so, and now they go to an outside reputable vendor and they have issues as well? Let's just let them figure out what happened before we maybe end up costing ourselves this privilege in the future.
This is true -- we do not have all the facts. But given 10C's history of rarely releasing all the facts, I personally doubt we will ever know more about what happened with the sale than we already do. I would love it if 10C proved me wrong on that.
I just do not agree that if the ticket benefit goes away it will be the fault of anyone on this board, regardless of what is written. If 10C tries to frame it that way then more shame on them because it would be completely disingenuous to do so. As I said earlier, it is shitty feeling this way.
This is true -- we do not have all the facts. But given 10C's history of rarely releasing all the facts, I personally doubt we will ever know more about what happened with the sale than we already do. I would love it if 10C proved me wrong on that.
I just do not agree that if the ticket benefit goes away it will be the fault of anyone on this board, regardless of what is written. If 10C tries to frame it that way then more shame on them because it would be completely disingenuous to do so. As I said earlier, it is shitty feeling this way.
I hear you 100% and I don't want the presale to go away, believe me. It's just everything has it's breaking point. I know I personally have let some good employees go just because I couldn't and wouldn't listen to them bitch anymore. They just became not worth my time investment any longer. The members here recently are like two kids fighting over the same toy...evntually the parent steps in and just takes the toy from both of them. I just don't want it to get this way with the Ten Club and tickets is all.
I think 10c needs a major shake up, and it wouldn't hurt if the band actually started to get involved, I think it's shocking how detached the band is from their fan base, are they really this oblivious to how their representatives deal with their fans?
The number one biggest issue involved here is lack of communication, and 10c's complete refusal to accept any responsibility to their now numerous fuck-ups. I'm not saying they don't have good intentions, but they seem to be dropping the ball a lot lately. What business (and let's remember 10c is a busines), would ever treat their customers with such little consideration? They literally have us by the balls, throwing scraps from the table for us all to fight over, be it limited edition merchandise or pre-sale tickets. And let's look at the ticket situation.......I'm willing to bet that no server in the world would be able to handle the traffic a PJ pre-sale produces, certainly when the band choose to play so few shows. Now of course they have their personal reasons for playing tiny tours, and yes, plenty of other bands who have families too, manage to play much longer tours ( Foo Fighters anyone?) but that is their personal choice. But this all contributes to a lot of grief for a lot of people.
What they need to do with the pre-sales is what other bands do, and make it a ticket lottery, you give people a week to register for tickets, draw peoples names after that and give them a few days to buy the tickets, if they don't, you choose some more people - what's so difficult about that? No server crashes, no refreshing the page a million times, wasting hours, people taking days off work etc, nice and simple hassle free - and let's face it, it's a lottery whether you get tickets in the pre-sale anyway.
The announcement of a tour should be an exciting and happy time, and this has been nothing but stress and hassle. Oh and one last thing, thanks to the powers that be for announcing a second Manchester date now, really helpful when I've already booked my hotel and train etc.
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Actually work...
Not me, I just did it to take the piss
Work?? Yeah right.
Yeah that could very well be the way ...
I love the band and all.... showing my love is one thing... paying $25/year is something totally different.
In this day and age when we pay for something we want something for return unless we're giving to a charity but given the amount of money Pearl Jam makes... they're far from a charity.
So if they did way with ticketing... huge loss in revenue.. huge drop in membership numbers.
Again it has nothing to do with the love of the band. If they stopped doing 10C ticketing.. I wouldn't like the band less... but I certainly wouldn't pay to join their fanclub.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
I don't like that mentality around here.... (no disrespect at all)
But.. you know folks around here keep saying "deal with it.." "if you don't like it then leave"
We just want to speak our minds here. And those should not be the only choices we have. I think if we all thought that way, 10C would have so much power they wouldn't need to care or be held accountable for anything.
Yeah there is a lot of bitching around here and some of it completely unnecessary... but I'm also seeing a lot of folks who are just ultra devoted and love the band and 10C unconditionally.
I think there are a lot of folks on here who think: "I don't care...do what you want 10C... I love you.. I'll never complain... you're perfect no matter what you do.... and if those complainers don't feel the same way.. then they can leave!"
If I was a business.. I would love all of my customers to be that way!!! It would make things REALLY easy. No accountability.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
When you sign up for the Ten Club all it states is you will have a chance for Ten Club tickets. On Tuesday, we did have a chance. It was a small crappy chance, but it was a chance. There are alot of other perks with the annual membership. I really think you over estimate how many fan club members would leave if the ticket presales were discontinued in my opinion.
PS -- I am in the club for the community, not the chance at tickets. This is membership #3 for me and I have a number in the 400 range. If the ticket benefit went away I would still want to be part of the community. It just shouldn't be taken away because didn't "tread lightly" on the message board.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I'm all for voicing opinions. What I meant when I wrote that is that many people have been voicing their opinions about the business style and misgivings of the club for a long time now. It's clear that they don't care what we think. We cannot change the way 10c does business. Therefore we have those 2 choices I mentioned. They're not appealing, I know. But as fans, we're not entitled to anything here. We need to recognize and shift our perceptions of the organization to making the right choices for ourselves. They do not deserve unconditional love but the problems are not completely theirs when the fan base is too large to please everyone. I actually worry about fans who devote their undying love to 10c and/or the band. It's completely unhealthy. There's a real lack of the fans' potential to look at themselves as being part of the big picture problem here. If collectively we accepted that there cannot be a 10c ticket for everyone who wants one, the problem would be partially solved.
Yeah, Id fine some other way to dick around.
By tread lightly I mean if people just keep bitching...the Club just might give up on the ticket thing and just concentrate on merchandise. Something realistically they are leaving quite a bit of money on the table with.
10C has me listed as a member since 2008 but I have actually been a member on and off (more on then off) since I was 12 years old, beginning in 1994, under my maiden name. I have the Christmas singles to prove it. I must say that I have always hoped to get tickets to the shows that I have attended through the 10C and this tour is the time it really paid off. I got tickets to Eddie's solo tour through 10C and the seats were not great. Seats in the past that I have gotten through 10C for West Palm Beach and Mansfield, MA were not great either. WITH THAT SAID, at least I got tickets. I am not a member of the 10C solely for ticket benefits. I am a member because Pearl Jam is the GREATEST BAND EVER! Their music and lyrics got me through my turmultous teenage years, and they have gotten me through many difficulties throughout my life. I feel a deep spiritual connection to their music, to their lyrics, as if they have been written just for me. And the 10C offers me the closest thing to a relationship with the band. This is about LOVE, people! LOVE of the MUSIC, LOVE of the BAND. FORTHELOVEOFPEARLJAM
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I would bet over 90% of those that are on the digital membership now would drop out (the ONLY thing I miss from the analog is the vinyl.. not worth $30 extra!)
it also will mean far less community as far less touring because trying to get multiple shows in general sales, let alone when it's in different countries with different languages, is a massive hassle, as we've just seen.
So lots of people will give up entirely on touring, which is the foundation of the community.
Frankly right now I think there's a lot of European members that are seriously thinking about dropping their membership anyway.. you can only get treated like 2nd class people for so long (it's not just the presale fuck up in itself but the utter contempt showed in the lack of communication).
actually, I talked to Crowdsurge shortly before they pulled the plug and they said there was PLENTY left.
They even said more specifically 'not half the Manchester seats' (of which there was supposed to be only a small allocation as per 10c email) were gone yet.
So I'd be surprised if more than 30% (and possibly far less judging by the amount of my PJ friends that left empty handed) of tix were bought in the presale.
actually you're not seeing the same show if you're 74th row (certainly not when you're under 6'), you're hearing the same show ;-)
I can't speak for the OP, but I don't necessarily think he's saying "Don't speak your mind". I think what he might be trying to say...or what I'M definitely trying to say is that demanding people's jobs within 10C be lost, requesting ridiculous solutions to problems that none of us know the full details or extent of, or demanding immediate and full responses to any and all questions and concerns is becoming way out of hand and really childish.
I would be gutted if TC stopped offering tickets, it's certainly been the reason why I've been a member over the past 18 years and renewed without fail every year. I haven't always been able to get tickets and I;ve experience tying to get tickets for PJ20. I don't like what's happened here and for PJ20 but I'm not going to stop listening to PJ or cancel my membership. So yes I agee with you that some people are being totally OTT about this.
London 28/10/96, Las Vegas 11/7/98, London 29/5/00, Nurnburg 11/6/00, Prague 14/6/00, Salzburg 18/6/00, Verona 20/6/00, Milan 22/6/00, Zurich 23/6/00, New York 8-9/7/03, Boston 11/7/03, Reading Festival 27/8/06, Shepards Bush 11/8/09, Berlin 15/8/09, Manchester 17/8/09, London 18/8/09, Dublin 22/6/10, Belfast 23/6/10, London (HRC) 25/6/10, Alpine Valley (PJ20) 3-4/9/11, Manchester 20-21/6/12, Leeds 8/7/14, Milton Keynes 11/7/14 To be continued....
I think you"re dramtically under estimating the loyalty of the fan base with regards to how many people would leave. Also, in regard to talking to CrowdSurge and them telling you there's pleanty of tickets available. What do you think they are going to tell you? They want you to go to their site and buy tickets. Do you think over the phone they would say to a buyer "no sir or mam, we have such a short supply of tickets left, if I were you I wouldn't waste my time"?
I agree that the complaining has gotten completely out of hand, but I do think in this case it is warranted. If we were talking about the backpack or the BluRay or something similar it would be one thing, but we are not. In this case, given the long history of ticket sale issues and poor communication, I just can't see urging people to tread lightly.
But I do hear what both you and DS119 are saying. I just don't think we should let 10C off the hook this time. It's a shitty way to feel and I don't like it. I wish none of this had gone down the way that it did. But it has.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I am not here mainly for the tickets either-I am here for the love of this incredible band and this community of fans. I just joined in May 2011, as I recently discovered PJ in 2010. When I first joined, I remember thinking that if I get tickets for concerts through 10c that's great, but if not, I'll find them elsewhere. If 10c does decide not to do pre-sale tickets anymore, I will still remain a member, as my first priority is my loyalty to PJ and loving being part of a community of fans who feel the same way!!
No one here has the facts. I'm not even sure the Ten Club has all of the facts. I just find it strange that the Ten CLub has had issues with tickets for a year or so, and now they go to an outside reputable vendor and they have issues as well? Let's just let them figure out what happened before we maybe end up costing ourselves this privilege in the future.
And the guy I talked to at crowdsurge wasn't a salesman and there was nothing in his tone or the way the conversation went to indicate he was bullshitting (they seemed peeved that the site wasn't working properly though); beside, it actually would have been in their interest at that point that less people hammered their site and then the rest might have been able to buy the remaining tickets..
Actually the Ten Club has gone on record stating the count on the site is incorrect. There's actually over 200,000 fan club members. Also, you mentioned the guy at CrowdSurge seemed peeved the site wasn't working. I guess that's the Ten CLub's fault? I guess I'll agree to disagree as we both can have our opinions. All I can say is if we keep bitching the fan club at some point may just say fucki it with the presale. ANd to the members who feel that would be the end of the club...you have seen the price of PJ merchandise on Ebay correct? They could just keep cranking out limited edition merchandise left and right and the masses would keep lining up.
At this point, I don't even care anymore. I have crossed oceans and done impossible things to follow this band around, but now I don't feel it's worth it anymore. I can't catch up with what is at best incompetence and at worst bad faith. Thinking that the band can't have enough oversight of its fan club to manage things with a minimum of decency makes being in Manchester and not being able to go to the second gig honestly a matter of indifference.
This is true -- we do not have all the facts. But given 10C's history of rarely releasing all the facts, I personally doubt we will ever know more about what happened with the sale than we already do. I would love it if 10C proved me wrong on that.
I just do not agree that if the ticket benefit goes away it will be the fault of anyone on this board, regardless of what is written. If 10C tries to frame it that way then more shame on them because it would be completely disingenuous to do so. As I said earlier, it is shitty feeling this way.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I hear you 100% and I don't want the presale to go away, believe me. It's just everything has it's breaking point. I know I personally have let some good employees go just because I couldn't and wouldn't listen to them bitch anymore. They just became not worth my time investment any longer. The members here recently are like two kids fighting over the same toy...evntually the parent steps in and just takes the toy from both of them. I just don't want it to get this way with the Ten Club and tickets is all.
The number one biggest issue involved here is lack of communication, and 10c's complete refusal to accept any responsibility to their now numerous fuck-ups. I'm not saying they don't have good intentions, but they seem to be dropping the ball a lot lately. What business (and let's remember 10c is a busines), would ever treat their customers with such little consideration? They literally have us by the balls, throwing scraps from the table for us all to fight over, be it limited edition merchandise or pre-sale tickets. And let's look at the ticket situation.......I'm willing to bet that no server in the world would be able to handle the traffic a PJ pre-sale produces, certainly when the band choose to play so few shows. Now of course they have their personal reasons for playing tiny tours, and yes, plenty of other bands who have families too, manage to play much longer tours ( Foo Fighters anyone?) but that is their personal choice. But this all contributes to a lot of grief for a lot of people.
What they need to do with the pre-sales is what other bands do, and make it a ticket lottery, you give people a week to register for tickets, draw peoples names after that and give them a few days to buy the tickets, if they don't, you choose some more people - what's so difficult about that? No server crashes, no refreshing the page a million times, wasting hours, people taking days off work etc, nice and simple hassle free - and let's face it, it's a lottery whether you get tickets in the pre-sale anyway.
The announcement of a tour should be an exciting and happy time, and this has been nothing but stress and hassle. Oh and one last thing, thanks to the powers that be for announcing a second Manchester date now, really helpful when I've already booked my hotel and train etc.
Moan over :twisted: