cigarettes should be outlawed

drmrkelley · October 2011

There's no way cigarettes should be illegal. If you want to be an idiot and start something that's highly addictive and will likely eventually kill you, then that's your business. We could use the tax dollars anyway. However, if you choose to smoke, there are some rules that I think should be enforced. I don't think you should be allowed to smoke where there are children present, including inside your own vehicle. It should also be illegal to throw them out the window when driving. I also think people who smoke should be denied medicaid and food stamps.

And yes, that's me smoking a cigar in the picture. But there were no kids around!

London Bridge · October 2011

Juan Godoy wrote:

London Bridge wrote:

What about the rights of a child? Do they get a say in this matter?
It must be nice for them inside a smoke filled house or car :roll:

that depends on his parents

Probably the same kind of parents who would take their infant to a rock concert. I believe that occurred at Alpine Valley.

drmrkelley · October 2011

London Bridge wrote:

Juan Godoy wrote:

London Bridge wrote:

What about the rights of a child? Do they get a say in this matter?
It must be nice for them inside a smoke filled house or car :roll:

that depends on his parents

Probably the same kind of parents who would take their infant to a rock concert. I believe that occurred at Alpine Valley.

Yep, I saw them tailgating.

Juan Godoy · October 2011

London Bridge wrote:

Juan Godoy wrote:

London Bridge wrote:

What about the rights of a child? Do they get a say in this matter?
It must be nice for them inside a smoke filled house or car :roll:

that depends on his parents

Probably the same kind of parents who would take their infant to a rock concert. I believe that occurred at Alpine Valley.

yes, and that's terrific

Wobbie · October 2011

chadwick wrote:

the government is making a fortune off tobacco corporations.

well, there you go. ergo, it'll never happen.

cincybearcat · October 2011

CorduroyGirl wrote:

As for the business owner, that's pretty much their choice, if they want to take the risk... That doesn't make it all better for an employee who got cancer, of course, but the employee also knows second hand smoking may have consequences (who doesn't?) so that has to be taken under consideration when accepting a job.

Ok then, but so is working for a gas drilling company. And when there is an explosion and someone dies, should we all say...well, they knew it was dangerous?

How about working in a chemical plant? Lots of hazardous chemicals. Should the employer be responsible for keeping the employees safe or should we just say, hell, those employees knew those chemicals were hazardous when they took the job?

I have no idea why the known hazard of cig. smoke gets a pass in restaurants.

Jeanwah · October 2011

cincybearcat wrote:

CorduroyGirl wrote:

As for the business owner, that's pretty much their choice, if they want to take the risk... That doesn't make it all better for an employee who got cancer, of course, but the employee also knows second hand smoking may have consequences (who doesn't?) so that has to be taken under consideration when accepting a job.

Ok then, but so is working for a gas drilling company. And when there is an explosion and someone dies, should we all say...well, they knew it was dangerous?

How about working in a chemical plant? Lots of hazardous chemicals. Should the employer be responsible for keeping the employees safe or should we just say, hell, those employees knew those chemicals were hazardous when they took the job?

I have no idea why the known hazard of cig. smoke gets a pass in restaurants.

Coal mine employees have have to sign a liability waiver when they go to work understanding that they could die of black lung - a direct effect of working in coal mines - and they can't sue their employer. I'm sure this is common in other 'dangerous' jobs as well. Not that it's right, but that's how business owners get around responsibility.

cincybearcat · October 2011

Jeanwah wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

CorduroyGirl wrote:

As for the business owner, that's pretty much their choice, if they want to take the risk... That doesn't make it all better for an employee who got cancer, of course, but the employee also knows second hand smoking may have consequences (who doesn't?) so that has to be taken under consideration when accepting a job.

Ok then, but so is working for a gas drilling company. And when there is an explosion and someone dies, should we all say...well, they knew it was dangerous?

How about working in a chemical plant? Lots of hazardous chemicals. Should the employer be responsible for keeping the employees safe or should we just say, hell, those employees knew those chemicals were hazardous when they took the job?

I have no idea why the known hazard of cig. smoke gets a pass in restaurants.

Coal mine employees have have to sign a liability waiver when they go to work understanding that they could die of black lung - a direct effect of working in coal mines - and they can't sue their employer. I'm sure this is common in other 'dangerous' jobs as well. Not that it's right, but that's how business owners get around responsibility.

Really? How is that possible? Although that industry is protected by Mine safety and not OSHA. Companies all over are required to protect their employees form the hazards of the jobs and if something happens, guess who is on the hook for medical for life?? Yep, you guessed it, the employer.

I haven't heard this about miners before.

EdsonNascimento · October 2011

Here's the fallacy of those thining that the taxes are great:

These people's health care costs related to their smoking is far more than the taxes.

We should stop paying for treatments related to smokers...or....better yet...

Much like life insurance, health insurance carriers should be allowed to rate based on an exam of smoking/non-smoking, so they can pay for their own damn care either through premium or going broke with no coverage WHEN (it's not if) they get sick.

cincybearcat · October 2011

http://www.dol.gov/owcp/dcmwc/regs/comp ... benact.htm

Payment of Benefits
The last coal mine operator for whom the miner worked for a cumulative period of at least one year is usually responsible for the payment of benefits; however, the Black Lung Disability Trust Fund pays benefits when:
The miner's last coal mine employment was before January 1, 1970;
There is no liable coal mine operator; or
The miner's most recent employment of at least one year with an operator ended while the operator was authorized to self-insure, and such operator is no longer financially capable of securing benefit payments.
In 2001, the basic monthly benefit for a totally disabled miner or the surviving spouse of the miner is $500.50 per month. This may be increased to a maximum of $1001.00 per month for claimants with three or more qualified dependents. Because the Act links benefit rates to Federal employee salary rates, benefit levels are usually adjusted annually in accordance with changes in the Federal employee pay schedules.

CorduroyGirl · October 2011

cincybearcat wrote:

CorduroyGirl wrote:

As for the business owner, that's pretty much their choice, if they want to take the risk... That doesn't make it all better for an employee who got cancer, of course, but the employee also knows second hand smoking may have consequences (who doesn't?) so that has to be taken under consideration when accepting a job.

Ok then, but so is working for a gas drilling company. And when there is an explosion and someone dies, should we all say...well, they knew it was dangerous?

How about working in a chemical plant? Lots of hazardous chemicals. Should the employer be responsible for keeping the employees safe or should we just say, hell, those employees knew those chemicals were hazardous when they took the job?

I have no idea why the known hazard of cig. smoke gets a pass in restaurants.

The employer is always responsible for the employees well being during work time, that why I said the employer WILL BE taking a risk by not controlling some factor that can interfeer with the employees health. Same things apply to all those examples, if the employer decides to overlook security issues, he's risking a law suit but it's still his choice. As for the employees, again, the situations are parallel, I'm pretty sure people working on a chemical plant or on a gas drilling company KNOW they're job is much more dangerous than most and are still willing to take the chance.

About the restaurants issue there are almost no restaurants left in Portugal that will even have a smokers area... Smoking is outside in nearly every restaurant. And I agree it is wrong to smoke in a restaurant because it's almost impossible to avoid second hand smoke and even if you are a smoker it is not very pleasant to be surrounded by smoke while you're eating, that's why I never did it, even when it was allowed.

pandora · October 2011

Division of Coal Mine Workers' Compensation (DCMWC)

Highlights

Looks like there is a federal program...yes?

currently effective

HIPAA Notice
Black Lung

http://www.dol.gov/owcp/dcmwc/

About the Black Lung Program
The mission of the Division of Coal Mine Workers' Compensation, or Federal Black Lung Program, is to administer claims filed under the Black Lung Benefits Act. The Act provides compensation to coal miners who are totally disabled by pneumoconiosis arising out of coal mine employment, and to survivors of coal miners whose deaths are attributable to the disease. The Act also provides eligible miners with medical coverage for the treatment of lung diseases related to pneumoconiosis.

this all I know but hopefully they are not just out there on their own ... that would suck

Jeanwah · October 2011

Coal mining states are poor. The benefits due to the coal miners may be something, but these workers have no where else to work, so they defend the mining, as well as the polluted communities it creates and the illnesses the miners end up getting as a cause of their work. That means they defend their employers, even though their occupation makes them sick. These employers are not liable. Maybe its stated federally that they are regulated and that they do bear some responsibility, but the fossil fuel industry definitely gets around the rules and regulations... Just look at the BP spill. Regulations were in place, but not enforced.

And mine owners are powerful and extremely wealthy.

chadwick · October 2011

BabaBooey1979 wrote:

I don't think they should be outlawed but a non smoker should be able to slap around a smoker if they light up near kids.

yes please...slapping smokers whom are lighting up near a kid is a ass whoopin beggin to happen in some areas of this great land.

also, can a guy (let's say me :evil: for instance) kick a fucker square in the teeth for flicking their smoke butt on the ground? you stupid piece of shit! what the fuck is wrong with you?

these are some of my most unfavorite assholes on the planet. literally i feel my blood run either cold or hot, i can't describe the feeling of wanting to break their nose or arm or kick their ribs in with a $10,000.00 fine, first offense of course.

guess we're mean, dude :twisted:

chadwick · October 2011

he still stands wrote:

obesity kills a lot (more than cigs, I think) of people too. should we outlaw cheeseburgers and coca-cola?

what about car crashes? they kill so many people... should we all just walk around instead of using transportation of any kind, since people die?

but that's pretty dangerous, too. let's just put nerf padding on the entire world so everyone is "safe."

sheesh guys, the last thing we need is more people telling other people what to do. It sickens me.

smoke all you want, i do not give a shit. flick your smoke butts on the ground and you should be tortured

chadwick · October 2011

why can't smoke companies recycle the filters? why can't you smokers send in your butts?

laziness is 3/4 the problem.

chadwick · October 2011

i'm fucking sick and tired of seeing all the cigarette butts on the ground. sure i pick some of them up and toss them away for those who can't. cigarette butts are the most common type of litter on earth.

more cig butts are floating in the oceans than any other trash; and there's a fucking lot of it out there.

http://www.cigarettelitter.org/index.asp?PageName=Home
http://www.longwood.edu/cleanva/cigaret ... rhome.html

mikepegg44 · October 2011

chadwick wrote:

i'm fucking sick and tired of seeing all the cigarette butts on the ground. sure i pick some of them up and toss them away for those who can't. cigarette butts are the most common type of litter on earth.

more cig butts are floating in the oceans than any other trash; and there's a fucking lot of it out there.

http://www.cigarettelitter.org/index.asp?PageName=Home
http://www.longwood.edu/cleanva/cigaret ... rhome.html

I completely agree. In my younger days I was going to school for law enforcement, one of my main goals as a patrol officer was going to be pulling people over for littering when they flick their butts...it would have been epic. I could probably have raised enough money to higher 20 new police officers.

chadwick · October 2011

mikepegg44 wrote:

chadwick wrote:

i'm fucking sick and tired of seeing all the cigarette butts on the ground. sure i pick some of them up and toss them away for those who can't. cigarette butts are the most common type of litter on earth.

more cig butts are floating in the oceans than any other trash; and there's a fucking lot of it out there.

http://www.cigarettelitter.org/index.asp?PageName=Home
http://www.longwood.edu/cleanva/cigaret ... rhome.html

I completely agree. In my younger days I was going to school for law enforcement, one of my main goals as a patrol officer was going to be pulling people over for littering when they flick their butts...it would have been epic. I could probably have raised enough money to higher 20 new police officers.

that would have been epic indeed

he still stands · October 2011

chadwick wrote:

why can't smoke companies recycle the filters? why can't you smokers send in your butts?

laziness is 3/4 the problem.

Chadwick... you should have just started a "no littering" thread.... no one would have disagreed.

cigarettes should be outlawed

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