the death penalty

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  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    chadwick wrote:
    sure you have.
    you offed a piece of garbage.

    this helps people sleep better at night.

    So you believe (rightly so) that a murderer does not have the right to decide someone should die. What then makes you think that you have this right?

    And for the record, I have heard of cases murder victims' families who have said that, contrary to what they expected, the execution of the killer did not give them peace, or a sense of justice, or closure. Or allowed them to sleep any better at night.
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    chadwick wrote:
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    odd...
    when something evil is no longer breathing
    to me this is relief


    I can understand that you feel relief, we're just different, and that is fine of course.
    But let me ask you this, please answer:
    What kind of feeling do you get when you think of Ray Krone, who was exonerated from death row?
    or Cameron Todd Willingham who might be innocent?
    never heard of those two guys
    if they are innocent that is both good and bad
    system suck.
    now they can get on with their lives.
    What about Derek Bentley?
    Can he get on with his life? Dead. Innocent. And certainly not the only one.
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    wolfamongwolves wrote:
    Godfather wrote:
    it wasn't ever a killing of self defense for that nut case so yes his death was good thing.

    Godfather.

    Again, you are expressing nothing here other than your opinion. There is no logical connection from whether or not it was self-defence to whether there are specific postitive social outcomes to his murder. You are still not answering the question, or logically justifying your position.

    when you or chadwick base your support for the death penalty your (justifiable) revulsion at what these people have done, you are calling not for justice, but for vengeance, for retribution. No society that bases itself on retribution over justice can call itself a civilised society, in my book.

    And with regard to justifying the death penalty because jailed murderers have killed again, I think there are far more reasonable and intelligent responses to flaws in the system that enable murderers to kill again, than just killing them. At the end of the day, you've still got a broken system, and you still have dead people. You haven't achieved anything.

    if you kill these people(killers) you may save the lives of many more like some of the examples on the list I posted it's not a matter of revenge it all about protecting other people from these wackos.

    Godfather.
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nAfxZlu6AA
    richard ramirez
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    wolfamongwolves wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    sure you have.
    you offed a piece of garbage.

    this helps people sleep better at night.

    So you believe (rightly so) that a murderer does not have the right to decide someone should die. What then makes you think that you have this right?

    And for the record, I have heard of cases murder victims' families who have said that, contrary to what they expected, the execution of the killer did not give them peace, or a sense of justice, or closure. Or allowed them to sleep any better at night.
    it would not give me closure either
    it just stops evil from breathing; that i like a lot.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    Godfather. wrote:
    if you kill these people(killers) you may save the lives of many more like some of the examples on the list I posted it's not a matter of revenge it all about protecting other people from these wackos.

    Godfather.
    The operative word being "may". It is impossible to ever know, so you can never provide any evidence to illustrate that you were correct.

    They also may not have killed again.They also may have taken responsibility for their actions, they also may have had the opportunity to make some reparation for what they did. But you'll never know, because they're dead.
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    wolfamongwolves wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    if you kill these people(killers) you may save the lives of many more like some of the examples on the list I posted it's not a matter of revenge it all about protecting other people from these wackos.

    Godfather.
    The operative word being "may". It is impossible to ever know, so you can never provide any evidence to illustrate that you were correct.

    They also may not have killed again.They also may have taken responsibility for their actions, they also may have had the opportunity to make some reparation for what they did. But you'll never know, because they're dead.
    contact the the family's of the victims and ask them and how many chances do you gave a person to kill once they have been caught the first time and still show homicidal tendencies ?

    Godfather.
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Godfather. wrote:
    wolfamongwolves wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    if you kill these people(killers) you may save the lives of many more like some of the examples on the list I posted it's not a matter of revenge it all about protecting other people from these wackos.

    Godfather.
    The operative word being "may". It is impossible to ever know, so you can never provide any evidence to illustrate that you were correct.

    They also may not have killed again.They also may have taken responsibility for their actions, they also may have had the opportunity to make some reparation for what they did. But you'll never know, because they're dead.
    contact the the family's of the victims and ask them and how many chances do you gave a person to kill once they have been caught the first time and still show homicidal tendencies ?

    Godfather.

    If I was one of these families of these victims, my anger wouldnt be over the fact that the criminal in question wasnt murdered by the govt, but rather that the system to keep them incarcerated is flawed.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    Godfather. wrote:
    wolfamongwolves wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    if you kill these people(killers) you may save the lives of many more like some of the examples on the list I posted it's not a matter of revenge it all about protecting other people from these wackos.

    Godfather.
    The operative word being "may". It is impossible to ever know, so you can never provide any evidence to illustrate that you were correct.

    They also may not have killed again.They also may have taken responsibility for their actions, they also may have had the opportunity to make some reparation for what they did. But you'll never know, because they're dead.
    contact the the family's of the victims and ask them and how many chances do you gave a person to kill once they have been caught the first time and still show homicidal tendencies ?

    Godfather.
    Once again, sidestepping the issue. No one is talking about giving anyone another chance to kill. In fact what I've been saying is, if you don't want that to happen, the rational, responsible and effective response is to fix those gaps in the system that leave that danger open. That does not in any way necessitate killing people.

    While emotional reponses to this issue are legitimate and understandable, they should never be made the basis of policy. That way you end up with a dysfunctional system. And if there's one thing the US's criminal justice system is, particularly around the issue of capital punishment, it's dysfunctional.
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • Bronx Bombers
    Bronx Bombers Posts: 2,208
    Well it took a unbelievable 17 hours but the jury in the Cheshire home invasion trial did the right thing and sentenced Stephen Hayes to death. May he burn in hell for what he did.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    wolfamongwolves as I said to Truth I respect your opinion on this issue and I even understand where you are coming from on this (I think) but as you have said my stance on this issue is an opinion as is yours so there is no absolute right or wrong, you bring up the execution of a innocent person to stop the death penalty and I bring up the unrepairable minds of people convicted and the friends and family of victims left behind for my opinion and stance on the issue and both of our examples and opinions have merit so the end issue comes down to a vote on the death penalty by each state.

    Godfather.
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    Bronx Bombers wrote:
    Well it took a unbelievable 17 hours but the jury in the Cheshire home invasion trial did the right thing and sentenced Stephen Hayes to death. May he burn in hell for what he did.

    What he did was awful. But killing him is not the right thing. If killing by one person is bad, killing by another is also.
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Connecticut Killer Sentenced to Die for Family's Murder

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/08/ju ... ion-trial/

    Considering they have only carried out the death penalty once since 1960, I doubt he'll see it.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    Godfather. wrote:
    there is no absolute right or wrong.

    yes there is. killing another human being.
    Godfather. wrote:
    you bring up the execution of a innocent person to stop the death penalty and I bring up the unrepairable minds of people convicted and the friends and family of victims left behind for my opinion and stance on the issue and both of our examples and opinions have merit so the end issue comes down to a vote on the death penalty by each state.
    Godfather.

    the difference is, GF, we address your stance(s). You ignore ours. Why is that?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,320
    Connecticut has only put one person to death since 1960 so it think this is a win for both opponents and proponents of the death penalty. He has been sentenced to death but will probably die of boredom and natural causes before receiving his punishment.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    Godfather. wrote:
    wolfamongwolves as I said to Truth I respect your opinion on this issue and I even understand where you are coming from on this (I think) but as you have said my stance on this issue is an opinion as is yours so there is no absolute right or wrong, you bring up the execution of a innocent person to stop the death penalty and I bring up the unrepairable minds of people convicted and the friends and family of victims left behind for my opinion and stance on the issue and both of our examples and opinions have merit so the end issue comes down to a vote on the death penalty by each state.

    Godfather.
    GF, I respect what you're saying here, and of course you are entitled to your opinion. It does concern me, however, that often what supports that opinion is not objective evidence but more subjective opinion, which doesn't make your case any stronger. For example, it is not a valid assumption that the minds of all people convicted for murder are irreperable, and when you kill them you have stymied any possibility.

    That said, you're right in saying you know where I'm coming from on this, and I know where you are coming from. And maybe we'll never get anywhere.

    I would support a vote if I believed there was a possibility of objectively , factually informing the electorate on the issue. Unfortunately, I've seen what passes for "informing" the electorate in the US over the course of the mid-terms, and it's essentially partisan infantile fearmongering and slanderous propaganda, so I wouldn't have much confidence in that.
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Paul David wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    there is no absolute right or wrong.

    yes there is. killing another human being.
    Godfather. wrote:
    you bring up the execution of a innocent person to stop the death penalty and I bring up the unrepairable minds of people convicted and the friends and family of victims left behind for my opinion and stance on the issue and both of our examples and opinions have merit so the end issue comes down to a vote on the death penalty by each state.
    Godfather.

    the difference is, GF, we address your stance(s). You ignore ours. Why is that?

    you are looking for something that is not there I have addressed your opinion and as I have said it's not my opinion, it's your opinion that killing for any reason is wrong and my opinion is different than yours, I haven't avoided anything,on this issue you have no leg to stand on and neither do I sense we both base our vales on this issue on opinions, in this country alone I think a murder is committed every hour or so or less I think..not sure on the numbers but compare that to the amount of executions in this country.

    Godfather.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Paul just for the fun of it please explain why it's wrong (yes there is. killing another human being. )
    and I am not looking for the "nobody has that right" answer..who gave us that right ? and who gave the right to a killer to kill ? so there has to more to it than that.

    Godfather.
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    edited November 2010
    you have NEVER answered the question. answer this and I'll move on:

    -can you justify the killing of an innocent human being for the right to kill the guilty, and if so, how?

    Godfather. wrote:

    you are looking for something that is not there I have addressed your opinion and as I have said it's not my opinion, it's your opinion that killing for any reason is wrong and my opinion is different than yours, I haven't avoided anything,on this issue you have no leg to stand on and neither do I sense we both base our vales on this issue on opinions, in this country alone I think a murder is committed every hour or so or less I think..not sure on the numbers but compare that to the amount of executions in this country.

    Godfather.
    Post edited by Hugh Freaking Dillon on
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    Too much hate and anger involved here.

    I don't see how it can ever be justified to kill another human. It's barbaric. We should be evolved beyond such inhumane acts by now.
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