the death penalty

Hugh Freaking Dillon

first clarify the question. you ask "who gave us that right?". What right? To kill? NO ONE. I'm guessing you didn't word it the way you wanted it to sound.

Godfather. wrote:

Paul just for the fun of it please explain why it's wrong (yes there is. killing another human being. )
and I am not looking for the "nobody has that right" answer..who gave us that right ? and who gave the right to a killer to kill ? so there has to more to it than that.

Godfather.

wolfamongwolves

Godfather. wrote:

you are looking for something that is not there I have addressed your opinion and as I have said it's not my opinion, it's your opinion that killing for any reason is wrong and my opinion is different than yours, I haven't avoided anything,on this issue you have no leg to stand on and neither do I sense we both base our vales on this issue on opinions

I know you're talking to Paul David here, but let me just restate what i said in my last post, because I think it's key here, if you're suggesting this is only a matter of differing opinions.

wolfamongwolves wrote:

you are entitled to your opinion. It does concern me, however, that often what supports that opinion is not objective evidence but more subjective opinion, which doesn't make your case any stronger.

There are objective facts about this issue and they're important to discuss, but once we get stuck on just subjective opinions or feelings, we cease to have a meaningful discussion. And this is a discussion that needs to happen.

Godfather. wrote:

in this country alone I think a murder is committed every hour or so or less I think..not sure on the numbers but compare that to the amount of executions in this country.
Godfather.

An interesting side note here (though I know we haven't really been discussing the supposed deterrent effects of the death penalty here) is that, rather than deterring violent crime, there is a tendency for murder rates to increase in the immediate aftermath of an execution.

Godfather.

Paul David wrote:

you have NEVER answered the question. answer this and I'll move on:

-can you justify the killing of an innocent human being for the right to kill the guilty, and if so, how?

Godfather. wrote:

you are looking for something that is not there I have addressed your opinion and as I have said it's not my opinion, it's your opinion that killing for any reason is wrong and my opinion is different than yours, I haven't avoided anything,on this issue you have no leg to stand on and neither do I sense we both base our vales on this issue on opinions, in this country alone I think a murder is committed every hour or so or less I think..not sure on the numbers but compare that to the amount of executions in this country.

Godfather.

there is no justification for killing a innocent person and I never said there was but that does not mean a guilty person should skate,as Truth stated earlier the system needs repair but in my opinion that does not mean abolishing the death penalty it means fixing the court system.

Godfather.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

the statements "no justification for killing an innocent person" and "does not mean abolishing the death penalty" are completely contradictory. In my opinion, it is impossible to hold both opinions.

Godfather. wrote:

Paul David wrote:

-can you justify the killing of an innocent human being for the right to kill the guilty, and if so, how?

Godfather. wrote:

there is no justification for killing a innocent person and I never said there was but that does not mean a guilty person should skate,as Truth stated earlier the system needs repair but in my opinion that does not mean abolishing the death penalty it means fixing the court system.

Godfather.

JonnyPistachio

and there it is! If there is no justification for the death of innocents by the govt, then the system is a failure.

Paul David wrote:

the statements "no justification for killing an innocent person" and "does not mean abolishing the death penalty" are completely contradictory. In my opinion, it is impossible to hold both opinions.

Godfather. wrote:

there is no justification for killing a innocent person and I never said there was but that does not mean a guilty person should skate,as Truth stated earlier the system needs repair but in my opinion that does not mean abolishing the death penalty it means fixing the court system.

Godfather.

Godfather.

all these states have the death penalty and there are aproximently 46 murders a day in the us

Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky




Louisiana
Maryland
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon

Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Washington
Wyoming

ALSO
- U.S. Gov't
- U.S. Military

this is interseting.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions

Godfather.

Godfather.

JonnyPistachio wrote:

and there it is! If there is no justification for the death of innocents by the govt, then the system is a failure.

Paul David wrote:

the statements "no justification for killing an innocent person" and "does not mean abolishing the death penalty" are completely contradictory. In my opinion, it is impossible to hold both opinions.

Godfather. wrote:

there is no justification for killing a innocent person and I never said there was but that does not mean a guilty person should skate,as Truth stated earlier the system needs repair but in my opinion that does not mean abolishing the death penalty it means fixing the court system.

Godfather.

okidoki JP. :shock:

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

wolfamongwolves as I said to Truth I respect your opinion on this issue and I even understand where you are coming from on this (I think) but as you have said my stance on this issue is an opinion as is yours so there is no absolute right or wrong, you bring up the execution of a innocent person to stop the death penalty and I bring up the unrepairable minds of people convicted and the friends and family of victims left behind for my opinion and stance on the issue and both of our examples and opinions have merit so the end issue comes down to a vote on the death penalty by each state.

Godfather.

so are you advocating euthanasia? as if to ease the suffering of the convicted and prevent them from living with their "unrepairable minds". sounds pretty condescending to me, as if you think you would be doing them a favor or something....because euthanasia is illegal, then so should be the death penalty.

JonnyPistachio

Godfather. wrote:

this is interseting.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions

Godfather.

that is a great site. wow, I didnt know that 35 US states had the DP.

within that site:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocen ... th-penalty
and
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execute ... y-innocent

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

wolfamongwolves as I said to Truth I respect your opinion on this issue and I even understand where you are coming from on this (I think) but as you have said my stance on this issue is an opinion as is yours so there is no absolute right or wrong, you bring up the execution of a innocent person to stop the death penalty and I bring up the unrepairable minds of people convicted and the friends and family of victims left behind for my opinion and stance on the issue and both of our examples and opinions have merit so the end issue comes down to a vote on the death penalty by each state.

Godfather.

so are you advocating euthanasia? as if to ease the suffering of the convicted and prevent them from living with their "unrepairable minds". sounds pretty condescending to me, as if you think you would be doing them a favor or something....because euthanasia is illegal, then so should be the death penalty.

euthanasia? ....as long as they're dead who cares .

condescending...ohhhh really ?

your trying to add you own twist to my post, are you ready to throw up the white flag ?

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

wolfamongwolves as I said to Truth I respect your opinion on this issue and I even understand where you are coming from on this (I think) but as you have said my stance on this issue is an opinion as is yours so there is no absolute right or wrong, you bring up the execution of a innocent person to stop the death penalty and I bring up the unrepairable minds of people convicted and the friends and family of victims left behind for my opinion and stance on the issue and both of our examples and opinions have merit so the end issue comes down to a vote on the death penalty by each state.

Godfather.

so are you advocating euthanasia? as if to ease the suffering of the convicted and prevent them from living with their "unrepairable minds". sounds pretty condescending to me, as if you think you would be doing them a favor or something....because euthanasia is illegal, then so should be the death penalty.

euthanasia? ....as long as they're dead who cares .

condescending...ohhhh really ?

your trying to add you own twist to my post, are you ready to throw up the white flag ?

Godfather.

in case you have not read my posts and figured it out, I CARE.

it does not matter what someone does, i will never have anyone murdered in my name with my tax dollars. i will never accept it, whether it be war, covert ops, extraordinary rendition, or death penalty. it is unethical because the procedures are flawed, are sometimes botched, and innocent people are executed. even the most self righteous of us should be able to recognize that and say "wait a minute, something IS wrong, let's investigate and see if we can figure out what..." and when the UN is again investigating our human rights abuses i think it would go a long way to regain resepct from the rest of the world if we ended capital punishment like most of the civilized countries in this world. why can't we be a leader in the realm of human rights? we always trumpet how great we are in that regard, how about putting our collective money where our mouths are and show the world we are better than this?

chadwick

i guess its pick on Godfather week, yes/no?

Godfather.

Truth; look man I agree with you that the system is flawed,the bad guys get away all the time through loop holes and yes sometimes a innocent person gets convicted and I my self could never kill for crime or pleasure shit I don't even hunt anymore,I also agree killing a criminal will not bring the victim back or even give their family and friends much comfort from their loss but...if a person kills for the above reasons then all bets are off they have at that moment agreed to forfeit their lives for taking a life.
life in prison is not good enough it has to be equal in punishment for the crime of murder, some cases may be self defense or an accident that 's different but a needless Hainess crime of murder is in my opinion a capital punishment crime, if a person can't deal with that then they should re-think their actions.
again all this is my opinion.

Godfather.

Godfather.

chadwick wrote:

i guess its pick on Godfather week, yes/no?

I feel like a republican at a democratic orgy

Godfather.

chadwick

like the link i posted about richard ramirez
i do fully believe he works with evil/satan
no decent human being does those things
many around are just like that

so wipe that cruel shit away
no more pumping heart for them fuckers
it's the way it is

send them on their way

Hugh Freaking Dillon

we've ALL been in that position on the train, my friends.

Godfather. wrote:

chadwick wrote:

i guess its pick on Godfather week, yes/no?

I feel like a republican at a democratic orgy

Godfather.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

sometimes I get the feeling that this is more of a "people who believe in evil/Satan are for the death penalty" thing. they actually believe they are doing god's work by killing the devil. thoughts?

chadwick wrote:

like the link i posted about richard ramirez
i do fully believe he works with evil/satan
no decent human being does those things
many around are just like that

so wipe that cruel shit away
no more pumping heart for them fuckers
it's the way it is

send them on their way

chadwick

Paul David wrote:

sometimes I get the feeling that this is more of a "people who believe in evil/Satan are for the death penalty" thing. they actually believe they are doing god's work by killing the devil. thoughts?

chadwick wrote:

like the link i posted about richard ramirez
i do fully believe he works with evil/satan
no decent human being does those things
many around are just like that

so wipe that cruel shit away
no more pumping heart for them fuckers
it's the way it is

send them on their way

no...

i do believe in right/good & wrong/bad
why would i torture & rape a 87 year old grandmother; strangle her 90 year old sister with a phone cord,
and steal their diamonds while chomping on a apple i picked up from the kitchen counter?

nobody does that unless they are evil and or insane beyond what the fuckever......

was this a good act?
no

was it wrong?
yes

was it bad?
yes

was it right?
no

simple shit...
evil cruel mindless uselessness.
cold and calculated, or not...
either way it's fucked
and so is the maniac that did it

eyedclaar

Paul David wrote:

sometimes I get the feeling that this is more of a "people who believe in evil/Satan are for the death penalty" thing. they actually believe they are doing god's work by killing the devil. thoughts?

Maybe for some folks, although I'm not sure how any true follower of the Christian religion can believe that, what with the whole, "Though shall not kill" angle going on. I have never heard a good explanation of that one. Godfather, give that a shot for me.

I, on the other hand, don't believe in God or Devils, and as such certainly don't have a problem with offing genuinely dangerous assholes.

chadwick

for me there is good and there is evil
not hell underground on fire,,, no

not heaven in blue skies and fluffy white clouds? um no

there is a lot going on in and after this life
im for the better of myself & mankind
getting rid of living breathing foulness,,, probably not such a bad idea sometimes