Why wasn’t Avocado a bigger success?

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  • lukin14
    lukin14 Posts: 287
    12345AGNST1 wrote:
    it didnt do well because you basicaly answered your own question.

    kids like my chemical romance,rihana, and garbage....not pearl jam.


    Actually, I don't think Garbage is as popular as they were in the mid/late 90s..

    I don't think Pearl Jam is aiming for the success of being all over the place, having their popularity milked for all its worth. but honestly, if you're a band trying to survive you need to make some money and you need to sell some records, probably more than Binaural & Riot Act.. I'm fairly sure most bands make their money touring, but even that gets expensive and thankfully Pearl Jam does a hell of a job at it. But without record sales, no label will want to invest in getting your music out there. You need some sort of support from a label, be it solely for distribution because taking on the entire task by yourself can't be economically feasible. If you look at the artist-started labels, they tend to have distribution deals with labels and eventually sign on other acts because being a one man show cannot keep a shirt on your back for long.

    Even if Avocado wasn't a huge success like Vs, its a step above what the last few albums did and thats a step in the right direction to keeping in business. The sabotage of the mid 90s was a self calculated move by Pearl Jam to curb the rate of success expected of a band that shot off out the gates. Its a lot of pressure to handle and I'm sure with age they have gained the ability to better handle success.

    And as for Yield not being accessible, I usually recommend it overall the PJ albums as I consider it the most accessible by the tone of the album.
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    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • Porchsitter
    Porchsitter Loganville, GA Posts: 1,092
    It's funny, ya know. For me, albums like Binaural and Riot Act required some time for me to come around to them. Not that they were bad albums. They just felt different when you place them aside with Vitalogy and Yield. However, over time, I've come to enjoy these albums (Binaural moreso than Riot Act) as they have grown on me. Avocado, on the other hand, took the exact opposite approach. I was smitten with it initially but have grown tired of it over time. I'm not sure if it's my least favorite album, but I would say that it ranks somewhere close to the bottom.
    We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution.--Bill Hicks
  • Sexy2aFault
    Sexy2aFault Posts: 388
    Avacado is going on 800,000 sold, that is good nowadays. And Avacado just kicks too much ass for the average lame PJ fan, blah, blah you have heard it all before. "In my Tree, YaaaaY" "Comatose, Worldwide?, what is that garage dirty punk noise, ewww".

    Idiots.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Sexy2aFault wrote:
    Avacado is going on 800,000 sold, that is good nowadays. And Avacado just kicks too much ass for the average lame PJ fan, blah, blah you have heard it all before. "In my Tree, YaaaaY" "Comatose, Worldwide?, what is that garage dirty punk noise, ewww".

    Idiots.

    I really don't think you can criticise Avocado for being 'dirty punk noise'. Quite the opposite, actually. It should've been a lot noisier.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

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  • gobrowns19
    gobrowns19 Posts: 1,447
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    I really don't think you can criticise Avocado for being 'dirty punk noise'. Quite the opposite, actually. It should've been a lot noisier.

    I agree with this. I enjoy the album and absolutely loved it for about the first half year it was out, but listening to Life Wasted it could be so much trashier. In my opinon.
    Happiness is only real when shared
  • Stone Irons
    Stone Irons Posts: 430
    Sexy2aFault wrote:
    Avacado is going on 800,000 sold, that is good nowadays.

    It's more in the 600,000-700,000 range. It hasn't sold more than Binaural, and that album sold about 750,000 copies.
    Can't escape from the common rule...
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  • stoneg
    stoneg Posts: 1,941
    I feel the ablum said more to me then others did.
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  • pc_loadletter
    pc_loadletter Posts: 164
    12345AGNST1 wrote:
    it didnt do well because you basicaly answered your own question.

    kids like my chemical romance,rihana, and garbage....not pearl jam. in order nowadays for a band to top the charts it has to be popular to the teenager crowd, so MTV can bullshit it some more.

    not really. the foo fighters make great music and their sales are always over a million in the usa. pearl jam just dug themselves into such a hole in the mid 90s that its going to take them a long time to get out of it.... thats if their willing.

    but avocado was a moderate success. over 600,000 in the usa sold and over 1.5 million worldwide.
  • Igottago
    Igottago Posts: 483
    Pearl Jam will never sell the amount of records they did in the early 1990's. It was a trend at the time, CD sales are going down, and let's face it, they are older, and the younger generation doesn't feel attached to them like we do.

    Why do you think they tour so much now? Because they know at least they have a rabbid fanbase who would buy anything associated with the PJ name...so they milk it, and that's how they make most of their money now.

    Also, let's face it, Avocado was pretty much their worst album. It all sounded like stuff we've heard before..the first time i've felt that way about a Pearl Jam album. I think they lost focus on making good music and shifted to trying to get some press again, which was disappointing.
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    what are people really expecting at this point?
  • nowayimfaithfull
    nowayimfaithfull Posts: 2,051
    radiohead33 wrote:
    I think all of us here, felt PJ was doing something different with the album, prior to hearing it. We read the reports of that it was going to be a return to the rock of Vs, and we read Mike’s controversial at the time on the board at least, that the band was hoping for a commercial success with Avocado. It was rare indeed to have PJ talk about wanting to sell records. After all we all know they purposely sabotaged their own careers, by making records like No Code. According to Ed that was an attempt to steer back, to cause them to lose fans. And lets be honest Yield, Binaural and Riot Act aren’t exactly accessible records. They aren’t rock that’s on the radio, and weren’t largely.

    So then 2006 roles around, and PJ signs with a new label, Clive Davis talks about promoting the band and that he feels they are an important band and deserve success. In addition PJ make a return to SNL for the first time since the death of Kurt in 94. Eddie “forgives” Rolling Stone and does a cover story interview with them that’s arguably his most personal interview yet. The advance reviews trickle out, and its basically praise from all corners, Rolling Stone raves about the album and says they feel like fools for leaving Mike out of the top guitarists list issue, and they call the album “their best album in a decade” etc etc… They promote their album in the press rigorously, doing interviews, appearing on covers. I would say Avocado was the most promoted PJ album since Vs. They even do a corporate contest promotion for a cell phone company. They may or may not have licensed some overseas car company to use their song. They do an extensive tour and are praised in numerous magazines as one of the most important and best live bands out there.

    After all this, 2 years after the album was released, PJ is as obscure as they were in 2005 before the release of the record. Despite the Into the Wild success, Eddie isn’t going to be in the pages of People anytime soon and neither PJ or Eddie are going to be topping Billboard for 10 weeks straight. Avocado and the Into the Wild soundtrack aren’t huge sellers. Millions of new fans didn’t flock to the band. I don’t think kids who are 15 or 18 or whatever are raving to their friends about the anticipation they feel waiting for the follow up to Avocado. Kids these days are raving about My Chemical Romance or Rhianna or Modest Mouse.

    My question is why was it not a success? Avocado is indeed their best album in a long time, and their most accessible, so why did it fail so miserably at least in terms of J Records, Clive Davis and promotional standpoints. It’s a great album and a success in that respect, but it seems the band and the label were in agreement this time out, they wanted to sell records. Fact of the matter is, they didn’t.

    I appreciated your time writing this and it was enjoying to read and well thought out, but I agree with none of it.
    Some people have religion I have Pearl Jam.


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  • nowayimfaithfull
    nowayimfaithfull Posts: 2,051
    I thought Yield was a very radio friendly album
    they played the shit out of it and still do in philly.
    I thought it was cute that the band did some press for avocado, but noway did they go full ct press.
    They hit the scene with storytellars and a few magazine stints and your average rock band press but nothing super.
    They did 1 video.
    They went on the average standard for a rock band in their 15th year, and let the people know they were still rocking.
    They got what they wanted. To show everyone they were healthy.
    As far as into the wild that record did good, and as far as your people magazine comment, I see Eds picture in more magazines than you can shake a stick at.
    I think you are drawing comparisons to boy bands of the late 90s and pjs early success which just isnt going to happen unless you gear things to teenage and younger.
    Not to mention record sales dont mean shit anymore, and this is not just an opinion. Madonna and all the other pop icons are all putting there stock in touring, which everyone knows pearl jam is at the top and set the standards for the busness.
    Some people have religion I have Pearl Jam.


    no more shows
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    Pearl Jam is a LIVE band now.
  • ScottandPearlJam
    ScottandPearlJam Posts: 1,126
    Don't forget selling records now is nothing like it use to be.
    In todays market selling 1 million is a success. When these teenie bopper groups sell a million they treat them like gold. Back then PJ sold millions and they were on top of the world but when vitalogy came out and only sold 6 or 7 million some people thought that was a flop. Thats crazy.....just different these days.

    Scott
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  • HermanBloom
    HermanBloom Posts: 1,764
    PJammer4life wrote:
    There were many factors that "Avocado" didn't blow up huge like Green Day's American Idiot comeback or U2's How to Dismantle..

    PJ stayed true to their roots. They didn't do anything they had never done before..I mean the board had alot of people wanting them to release Come Back as a single on Adult Radio..

    They are in their mid 40's..they aren't cool to teens ..just as Aerosmith wasn't cool when I was 17-18..what sold for Aerosmith was Alicia Silverstone and Liv Tyler. PJ could have gone for sex in videos and sold more but didn't..it's not what they are about..the video for Life Wasted was not that good..

    WWS was a good radio hit..but no American Idiot or Verigo in terms of radio play..

    Face it..Pearl Jams sales now that they are in their 40's and approaching their 50's will be in the lines of their peers at that age..i.e. Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, Rolling Stones, and Bob Dylan..

    Pearl Jam will be like the Who, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Eagles, Beatles, etc. where kids buy Rearviewmirror based on critical praise of their catalog, or top 50 lists etc....and then maybe go back and buy the catalog..but not to the point where teens who have never heard of Pearl Jam say "Who is that and buy the album..the days of Eddie on Hungerstrike and Alive..and thinking..who is that guy with that great voice?" are done..too many wannabes who copied Ed's style..

    But Into the Wild was a great album..I know alot of people who really dug it..and are not PJ fans....

    As long as Pearl Jam keeps putting out relevant music and rocks the house live..it's good enough..we don't need to be "cool" cause we like Pearl Jam...
    great post
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  • DiRtyFranK38
    DiRtyFranK38 Posts: 3,131
    pearl jam isn't as obscure as it seems. i'm 16 and high school and every single person i've asked knows who they are and at least 3 songs. also, i'm only 16 but i'm just as big of a fan as anyone on here. they've been my favorite band since i was into music and definitely changed the way i lookat life. god bless em. they don't need huuuge success, but they definitely have enough under their belt to be recognized.
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  • LONGRD
    LONGRD Posts: 6,036
    It was a success because of the current state of music industry. It debut at #2 and sold somewhere between 500K-750K in U.S. and million plus worldwide.

    I actually thought it was a crappy album! Worst one from the boys. But it's good to see them get a lot of national attention from music critics.
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  • NeverNamed068
    NeverNamed068 Posts: 118
    12345AGNST1 wrote:
    it didnt do well because you basicaly answered your own question.

    kids like my chemical romance,rihana, and garbage....not pearl jam. in order nowadays for a band to top the charts it has to be popular to the teenager crowd, so MTV can bullshit it some more.

    avacado did not fail, not at all. whoever honestly expected teenagers to grab that album and absolutely love it, was thinking way too high.

    True, in my HS the ratio of this new shit type music lovers to grunge heads is sadly a very high one. I only know of a few people (all of which are my friends) that listen to PJ. It's a sad music scene today.
    "I wish I was the full moon... you kept your house keys on" - Wishlist (Melbourne '03)
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    Igottago wrote:
    Also, let's face it, Avocado was pretty much their worst album. It all sounded like stuff we've heard before...

    Parachutes
    Marker In The Sand
    Army Reserve
    Inside Job
    Come Back

    "all sounded like stuff we've heard before?"

    Hardly.

    Even songs that were more "true to their roots":
    Life Wasted
    Comatose
    and in particular, Severed Hand

    did NOT sound particularly like anything we have heard before.

    Unless of course you mean that, 15 some years later, Pearl Jam was in fact still Pearl Jam.

    To which my reply would be:
    Duh.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
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  • marker2727
    marker2727 Posts: 91
    nowayimfaithfull wrote:
    it did not suck.
    Define success? I thought the tour did well, and songs from the album did get played on the radio. Asong also made guitar hereo.
    These three credentials are about how to judge rock albums anymore.
    The only thing that matters is that it’s good music. I think it’s a big success . . . because it’s good music. Comatose and WWS are in my top 10 pj songs! There is a heck of a lot of good music out there that doesn’t sell millions of records.
    can't escape from the common rule
    if you hate something, don't you do it too...

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