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Why wasn’t Avocado a bigger success?

musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
edited April 2009 in The Porch
I think all of us here, felt PJ was doing something different with the album, prior to hearing it. We read the reports of that it was going to be a return to the rock of Vs, and we read Mike’s controversial at the time on the board at least, that the band was hoping for a commercial success with Avocado. It was rare indeed to have PJ talk about wanting to sell records. After all we all know they purposely sabotaged their own careers, by making records like No Code. According to Ed that was an attempt to steer back, to cause them to lose fans. And lets be honest Yield, Binaural and Riot Act aren’t exactly accessible records. They aren’t rock that’s on the radio, and weren’t largely.

So then 2006 roles around, and PJ signs with a new label, Clive Davis talks about promoting the band and that he feels they are an important band and deserve success. In addition PJ make a return to SNL for the first time since the death of Kurt in 94. Eddie “forgives” Rolling Stone and does a cover story interview with them that’s arguably his most personal interview yet. The advance reviews trickle out, and its basically praise from all corners, Rolling Stone raves about the album and says they feel like fools for leaving Mike out of the top guitarists list issue, and they call the album “their best album in a decade” etc etc… They promote their album in the press rigorously, doing interviews, appearing on covers. I would say Avocado was the most promoted PJ album since Vs. They even do a corporate contest promotion for a cell phone company. They may or may not have licensed some overseas car company to use their song. They do an extensive tour and are praised in numerous magazines as one of the most important and best live bands out there.

After all this, 2 years after the album was released, PJ is as obscure as they were in 2005 before the release of the record. Despite the Into the Wild success, Eddie isn’t going to be in the pages of People anytime soon and neither PJ or Eddie are going to be topping Billboard for 10 weeks straight. Avocado and the Into the Wild soundtrack aren’t huge sellers. Millions of new fans didn’t flock to the band. I don’t think kids who are 15 or 18 or whatever are raving to their friends about the anticipation they feel waiting for the follow up to Avocado. Kids these days are raving about My Chemical Romance or Rhianna or Modest Mouse.

My question is why was it not a success? Avocado is indeed their best album in a long time, and their most accessible, so why did it fail so miserably at least in terms of J Records, Clive Davis and promotional standpoints. It’s a great album and a success in that respect, but it seems the band and the label were in agreement this time out, they wanted to sell records. Fact of the matter is, they didn’t.
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Comments

  • Stephen FlowStephen Flow Posts: 3,327
    album sales in general were extremely dismal at the time of it's release.

    it actually did better than riot act and binaural... so that's not that bad.
  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    you may be right, but i didnt get the feeling pearl jam or j records consider that a success, maybe I am wrong. When you promote a cd, when PJ promotes a cd like they did Avocado, as I said, their most promoted cd in over a decade, I think, and I would assume they thought and the label thought that with SNL, Rolling Stone covers, rave reviews etc... that with all that would come a renewed interest and major cowering for cd's. I got the sense people felt all of that would mean PJ is back. They made a great record, I think its flawless, but the general public doesnt seem to have noticed. They appeared on SNL and magazine covers and were heavily promoted and no one noticed.
  • 12345AGNST112345AGNST1 Posts: 4,906
    it didnt do well because you basicaly answered your own question.

    kids like my chemical romance,rihana, and garbage....not pearl jam. in order nowadays for a band to top the charts it has to be popular to the teenager crowd, so MTV can bullshit it some more.

    avacado did not fail, not at all. whoever honestly expected teenagers to grab that album and absolutely love it, was thinking way too high.
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  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    you wrote:
    I don’t think kids who are 15 or 18 or whatever are raving to their friends about the anticipation they feel waiting for the follow up to Avocado. Kids these days are raving about My Chemical Romance or Rhianna or Modest Mouse.

    Well, exactly.
    When in history have 15 to 18 year olds (who typicaly don't know shit, anyhow - and yes, you'll have to excuse the generalization) EVER flocked with enthusiasm to a band that began 15-18 years BEFORE their time?

    You are asking for a new wave of record buying public ... one that has a very limited knowledge of who pearl jam is or was ... and has ZERO understanding of the climate they arose from ... or just how important they were in the early 90's music scene ...

    they have no clue about the mass hysteria that ensued around Pearl Jam, and honestly, most of the ones who do probably scoff at it.

    Its the old "hate your parent's music" mentality.
    Pearl Jam are old hat.
    They are dinosaurs.

    Kids want to think they are on to the hip new thing.
    Pearl Jam are ANYTHING but trendy.

    Why would you even want that?
    Ewww.

    I like young fans,
    i think its fucking great.

    The ones that can weed out the crap, and find true creative beauty in bands like Pearl Jam ... i embrace their new inclusion in the Jamily.

    That being said, why would you want the unwashed masses of idiot teeny boppers and moron fans fawning over a band that speaks about individualism and purity of spirit?

    I hear ya.
    It feels great to have the validation of the world,
    but be careful what you wish for,
    you probably don't really want it.

    :D
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  • Dogman3Dogman3 Posts: 330
    I'm a teenager who grabbed Avocado and loved it.
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    Dogman3 wrote:
    I'm a teenager who grabbed Avocado and loved it.

    and what do your friends think about Pearl Jam?
    What do they know about the band, and what are their opinions, generally?

    Welcome.
    :D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • pjalive21pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    Well, exactly.
    When in history have 15 to 18 year olds (who typicaly don't know shit, anyhow - and yes, you'll have to excuse the generalization) EVER flocked with enthusiasm to a band that began 15-18 years BEFORE their time?

    i dont agree with you here...respectfully

    alot of kids that i talk to out there listen to Led Zepplin, Beatles, and Black Sabbath who fall in this category...hell even Alice in Chains and Nirvana get mentioned

    i just think since Pearl Jam is still around and didnt get the praise those other bands got because they shunned the media for so long they get overlooked
  • Dogman3Dogman3 Posts: 330
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    and what do your friends think about Pearl Jam?
    What do they know about the band, and what are their opinions, generally?

    Welcome.
    :D

    You'd be surprised, alot of people around here know Pearl Jam. Some like them, some dislike them, but they know of Pearl Jam. Though, they only know Alive, Even Flow, and Better Man. I know some people who want tickets.

    Its just that they're not popular. This isn't 1992. I grew up with Pearl Jam. I was born in '89, and could remember them on the radio when I was really young. My dad liked Pearl Jam, so I was always exposed to them.
  • PJammer4lifePJammer4life Los Angeles Posts: 2,656
    There were many factors that "Avocado" didn't blow up huge like Green Day's American Idiot comeback or U2's How to Dismantle..

    PJ stayed true to their roots. They didn't do anything they had never done before..I mean the board had alot of people wanting them to release Come Back as a single on Adult Radio..

    They are in their mid 40's..they aren't cool to teens ..just as Aerosmith wasn't cool when I was 17-18..what sold for Aerosmith was Alicia Silverstone and Liv Tyler. PJ could have gone for sex in videos and sold more but didn't..it's not what they are about..the video for Life Wasted was not that good..

    WWS was a good radio hit..but no American Idiot or Verigo in terms of radio play..

    Face it..Pearl Jams sales now that they are in their 40's and approaching their 50's will be in the lines of their peers at that age..i.e. Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, Rolling Stones, and Bob Dylan..

    Pearl Jam will be like the Who, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Eagles, Beatles, etc. where kids buy Rearviewmirror based on critical praise of their catalog, or top 50 lists etc....and then maybe go back and buy the catalog..but not to the point where teens who have never heard of Pearl Jam say "Who is that and buy the album..the days of Eddie on Hungerstrike and Alive..and thinking..who is that guy with that great voice?" are done..too many wannabes who copied Ed's style..

    But Into the Wild was a great album..I know alot of people who really dug it..and are not PJ fans....

    As long as Pearl Jam keeps putting out relevant music and rocks the house live..it's good enough..we don't need to be "cool" cause we like Pearl Jam...
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  • Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    It wasn't a big success because it sucks.
  • PJammer4lifePJammer4life Los Angeles Posts: 2,656
    It was the Avocado cover...
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  • JP2026766JP2026766 Posts: 1,125
    JWBusher wrote:
    It wasn't a big success because it sucks.

    Yeah, that's what it was...

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  • SENROCKSENROCK Posts: 10,736
    Dogman3 wrote:
    I'm a teenager who grabbed Avocado and loved it.

    awesome!!!
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  • mattosbornemattosborne Posts: 339
    For todays standards, a band like Pearl Jam selling 600,000+ records and still being relevant enough to tour nationally is absolutely a success anyway you look at it.
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  • PJamGrunge10PJamGrunge10 California Posts: 596
    Last I check, going gold isn't bad.

    It sold a lot better than Riot Act did...
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  • dave grolschdave grolsch Posts: 730
    i dont really know about pearl jam album sales in the usa but here in the uk/europe they seem to be doing great,advocado was on the shelves in the supermarkets,gigs were soldout in minutes or at least the ones i went to were,they headlined festivals and got rave reviews one claiming Reading would never recover after such a show! The msg gigs sounds like they will sellout,eddies own shows soldout quickly and they are headlining bonnaroo,so there is a lot of pulling power still there.
    I think this era for artists must be hard with downloading and file sharing but pearl jam fans are feverish they want everything,posters,the offical bootleg,the vinyl version,EVERYTHING!!,lucky band eh?
  • brain of cbrain of c Posts: 5,213
    radiohead33 wrote:
    I think all of us here, felt PJ was doing something different with the album, prior to hearing it. We read the reports of that it was going to be a return to the rock of Vs, and we read Mike’s controversial at the time on the board at least, that the band was hoping for a commercial success with Avocado. It was rare indeed to have PJ talk about wanting to sell records. After all we all know they purposely sabotaged their own careers, by making records like No Code. According to Ed that was an attempt to steer back, to cause them to lose fans. And lets be honest Yield, Binaural and Riot Act aren’t exactly accessible records. They aren’t rock that’s on the radio, and weren’t largely.

    So then 2006 roles around, and PJ signs with a new label, Clive Davis talks about promoting the band and that he feels they are an important band and deserve success. In addition PJ make a return to SNL for the first time since the death of Kurt in 94. Eddie “forgives” Rolling Stone and does a cover story interview with them that’s arguably his most personal interview yet. The advance reviews trickle out, and its basically praise from all corners, Rolling Stone raves about the album and says they feel like fools for leaving Mike out of the top guitarists list issue, and they call the album “their best album in a decade” etc etc… They promote their album in the press rigorously, doing interviews, appearing on covers. I would say Avocado was the most promoted PJ album since Vs. They even do a corporate contest promotion for a cell phone company. They may or may not have licensed some overseas car company to use their song. They do an extensive tour and are praised in numerous magazines as one of the most important and best live bands out there.

    After all this, 2 years after the album was released, PJ is as obscure as they were in 2005 before the release of the record. Despite the Into the Wild success, Eddie isn’t going to be in the pages of People anytime soon and neither PJ or Eddie are going to be topping Billboard for 10 weeks straight. Avocado and the Into the Wild soundtrack aren’t huge sellers. Millions of new fans didn’t flock to the band. I don’t think kids who are 15 or 18 or whatever are raving to their friends about the anticipation they feel waiting for the follow up to Avocado. Kids these days are raving about My Chemical Romance or Rhianna or Modest Mouse.

    My question is why was it not a success? Avocado is indeed their best album in a long time, and their most accessible, so why did it fail so miserably at least in terms of J Records, Clive Davis and promotional standpoints. It’s a great album and a success in that respect, but it seems the band and the label were in agreement this time out, they wanted to sell records. Fact of the matter is, they didn’t.

    nobody saw into the wild. i don't even have the dvd.
    d'oh!!!!!!

    http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
  • augustwestaugustwest Posts: 739
    just because they didn't sell 1million records doesn't mean they didn't had any success with avocado. the band sold a hellofa lot of ticket stubs and i think that's more important, for music's sake, now a days.

    selling albums is secondary, imo.

    the good, live shows, will weed out the posers who are nothing but a trend.
  • Pearl Street BreweryPearl Street Brewery Posts: 113
    JWBusher wrote:
    It wasn't a big success because it sucks.

    Defenitely not deserving of more sales. It's just ok.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    radiohead33 wrote:
    you may be right, but i didnt get the feeling pearl jam or j records consider that a success

    I'm thinking PJ don't consider an album a success or not a success based on sales :)
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    Well, exactly.
    When in history have 15 to 18 year olds (who typicaly don't know shit, anyhow - and yes, you'll have to excuse the generalization) EVER flocked with enthusiasm to a band that began 15-18 years BEFORE their time?

    Exactly. Popular music doesn't focus on band's that peaked 15 years ago.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • U R A Crazy BreedU R A Crazy Breed Posts: 8,370
    yosi wrote:
    Exactly. Popular music doesn't focus on band's that peaked 15 years ago.

    the band didn't peak 15 yrs ago,their popularity did.i hope that's what you meant to say.

    with all the shit music that gets air play now a days,it doesn't surprise me PJ didn't top the charts.that place is now reserved for mindless,hedonistic head-ache inducing noise pollution!

    that's why you will find certain circles of teens reverting back to '70s rock.i took my 13 yr old to see PJ in '06 and she was blown away! but she was raised in a musically diverse household and has learned to appreciate older stuff.

    besides,there are people on this board who are not happy with the lack of ticket availability,we certainly don't need more sharks in the water :)
  • Niko80Niko80 Posts: 1,610
    Stephen Flow wrote:
    album sales in general were extremely dismal at the time of it's release.

    it actually did better than riot act and binaural... so that's not that bad.

    Binaural has actually sold about 100,000 copies more than pearl jam.
    I will swallow poison
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Crazy Breed wrote:
    the band didn't peak 15 yrs ago,their popularity did.i hope that's what you meant to say.

    That's what I meant. In terms of their status in popular music they peaked 15 years ago. Not musically.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • tvismyfriendtvismyfriend Posts: 2,118
    Niko80 wrote:
    Binaural has actually sold about 100,000 copies more than pearl jam.
    It had a six year head start though.
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    brain of c wrote:
    nobody saw into the wild. i don't even have the dvd.

    My mom saw it. I didn't though...
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • audiodaveaudiodave Posts: 1,623
    tvismyfriend wrote:
    It had a six year head start though.
    And is a much better album.
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  • nukebootnukeboot Posts: 1,465
    Anyone know what the paid download numbers for "8" are?
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  • pjfan85pjfan85 Posts: 124
    Albums are selling less and less. So you can't compare Avocado to an album they released in the 90's. That said, if you look at similar bands to Pearl Jam (Kings of Leon, The Strokes, etc.) I don't think they sell much either.
  • stonegstoneg Posts: 1,940
    As long as it did well with the Jamily and Jammers it should not matter.They have made their money.
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