I think you're ass backwards. Most PJ fans love Avocado because it's full of generic crap they can relate to. Life Wasted? Severed Hand? WWS? Come Back? Some of the lamest riffs they've ever come up with. Releasing Life Wasted as a video was a horrible idea, because there is nothing interesting about that song at all. It's the most generic Pearl Jam song ever, and it's no suprise that it brought them ZERO new fans. And to think that people wanted Come Back to be a single. Ha! Yeah right. Let's release the weakest song on the album as a single because it's reminds me of my dead grandmother. That oughta bring some new fans out of the woodwork. NOT.
Only two or three songs on Avocado stand out as being truly excellent. Riot Act sounds like like Sgt Pepper in comparison. And we all know how much that "fans" love that one. :rolleyes:
Usually people tend to get over themselselves as they get older, you have been talking trash on here for as long as I remember, I still have pms where you called me an asshole and stupid and an iddiot.
My question is why do you have to be so arrogant, its your opinion but you come off like you are better than everyone including the band members.
1. MTV- Pearl Jam doesn't put near the effort other "commercial" bands do in producing videos- someone was comparing them to the Foo Fighters- they have very entertaining videos.
2. Peer to Peer File Sharing- less people are buying full records.
3. i-tunes, etc., again, less people are buying records.
Pearl Jam will sell more records over the long haul than 99.9% of the musical acts in history. Even if it takes the next fifty to 100 years.
This is my first entry on the Pit, long time reader though. Here's my two cents on why Avocado wasn't a bigger success. I compare PJ to jam bands like the Dead, Widespread, and Phish. They have a loyal following who pack arenas tour after tour, but record sales are not necessarily huge. It's the live experience that matters.
The whole music industry has changed since the early 90's. No one act pops up and gets everyone's attention anymore - music tastes are very individualized because the old methods of presenting music have become less significant. You can't count on terrestrial radio to get peoples' attention to your music. Additionally, using the number of Soundscan sales to gauge 'success' is inaccurate IMO, given the number of people that download copies of records. The number of people who *obtained* the album compared to the number of people who *bought* the album might have been somewhat higher.
I loved Avocado, even if it wasn't my favorite of all their work. I like that they move forward and continue to create and I want them to keep doing that. So it was a success to me.
I agree with this almost word for word (the "almost" being that I thought Avocado was the equal of any album they ever put out, especially demonstrating how the fire and passion are just as strong as ever). Bands don't measure success by album sales anymore because almost no one is selling albums. Bands make their money touring now, and that's how it is for every band everywhere. Comparing Pearl Jam's album sales now with their sales in the early 1990s is pointless, because it's a totally changed world.
At this point in their career, Pearl Jam is about the live show. As long as they are firing on all cylinders in concert then i'm sticking around. At the same time, i feel lucky that there isn't one album i dislike from the band.
I have to be honest, i've never given two pieces of monkey crap about how much albums sell. If PJ perhaps wanted to increase awareness of themselves with Avocado then more power to them. If they release a new album and the songs fit into the setlists well enough then that is a success if you ask me. I really enjoy Avocado and think the majority of the songs fit into the setlists and sound great live.
So many people download now instead of buying CDs, so that affects most bands. PJ just worked very hard in the mid-90s to become more obscure to the mainstream, and in today's musical climate it's going to be very hard to get out of that situation if they want to.
"This town deserves a better class of criminal... and I'm gonna give it to them."
Pearl Jam is interested in people buying and listening to an ALBUM. That doesn't work for the main consumers of music these days. Pearl Jam has never been about "playing the game" for the corporations that run the music industry.
Honestly, "Self-Titled" could've been one of the biggest selling records in the past five years, been awarded a ton of acclaim and Grammy’s and everything else. The only problem is that it would’ve cost Pearl Jam their credibility, self-respect, and integrity. You would see the band on every interview show, they would have their own customized iPods and iPhones available to buy, their music would be in the background a bunch of commercials, they would play with the American Idol kids during “Pearl Jam Week”, Ed would be out there endorsing McDonald’s new McWrap, you would see the band all over the iTunes front page, “Parachutes” would be playing the background of episodes of MTV’s “The Hills”, they would do a 24 hour takeover of MTV, and they would basically whore themselves out in any way possible.
If they would’ve done all of that, Pearl Jam “Pearl Jam”, would be one of the highest grossing albums since the digital revolution. They would make a TON of money and sell millions of albums.
Of course, I would no longer be a fan, and I would resent them for selling out.
I love the fact that Pearl Jam has been refusing to play the game since they first figured it out. I prefer that they continue doing what they’ve been doing. I love that they are considered one of the best rock bands on the planet, and that they can tour the globe and be greeted by fans and admirers everywhere they go.
Avocado is a great album filled with some amazing music. People will be “discovering it” years from now.
my friend bought avacodo bc it was featured half price at tower records or something and after listening a few times went out and bought their entire catalogue
There's isn't too much I can add that hasn't been covered already.
I will say though that I do not understand fans blowing their loads over "Severed Hand". One of the weakest song on the album in my book. It's a skipper.
I wish they'd become less "popular" so it would be easier to get tickets! I actually love the PJ fan base as it is, where the vast majority understands and is truly dedicated to the band and what they stand for, and they're not just into them because they're the newest trend. We are all a bunch of die hards, and getting a new wave of popularity and dumbass fans I feel would lessen the credibility of the band and it's true fans...to me anyway. I feel like Pearl Jam is "my" band, and not just the same shit that everyone else is in to.
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My question is why was it not a success? Avocado is indeed their best album in a long time, and their most accessible, so why did it fail so miserably at least in terms of J Records, Clive Davis and promotional standpoints. It’s a great album and a success in that respect, but it seems the band and the label were in agreement this time out, they wanted to sell records. Fact of the matter is, they didn’t.
Because it wasn't that great of an album. WWS was their most successful single since Last Kiss, but there wasn't a decent single on the rest of the album. They have intentionally forgotten how to write a great melodic rocker that people can bob their heads and sing along to on the radio.
1. MTV- Pearl Jam doesn't put near the effort other "commercial" bands do in producing videos- someone was comparing them to the Foo Fighters- they have very entertaining videos.
2. Peer to Peer File Sharing- less people are buying full records.
3. i-tunes, etc., again, less people are buying records.
Pearl Jam will sell more records over the long haul than 99.9% of the musical acts in history. Even if it takes the next fifty to 100 years.
Since when the hell does MTV play videos? I don't think any videos are popular nowadays.. so 80s and 90s..
I don’t think kids who are 15 or 18 or whatever are raving to their friends about the anticipation they feel waiting for the follow up to Avocado. Kids these days are raving about My Chemical Romance or Rhianna or Modest Mouse.
Well, exactly.
When in history have 15 to 18 year olds (who typicaly don't know shit, anyhow - and yes, you'll have to excuse the generalization) EVER flocked with enthusiasm to a band that began 15-18 years BEFORE their time?
Aerosmith
Goo Goo Dolls
U2
Green Day
REM (to a lesser extent)
There are others on the tip of my tongue, but I can't recall them. The thing is, you have to write songs that are enjoyable listens. Whoever said PJ is going to be like Neil Young and Tom Petty and the Rolling Stones is spot on. They play to a small set of diehard fans that will always give the new album a listen, but their best work is behind them. They will still draw crowds when they play live. But the majority of the world is never again going to give a fuck about the new PJ album. We're it.
I think all of us here, felt PJ was doing something different with the album, prior to hearing it. We read the reports of that it was going to be a return to the rock of Vs, and we read Mike’s controversial at the time on the board at least, that the band was hoping for a commercial success with Avocado. It was rare indeed to have PJ talk about wanting to sell records. After all we all know they purposely sabotaged their own careers, by making records like No Code. According to Ed that was an attempt to steer back, to cause them to lose fans. And lets be honest Yield, Binaural and Riot Act aren’t exactly accessible records. They aren’t rock that’s on the radio, and weren’t largely.
So then 2006 roles around, and PJ signs with a new label, Clive Davis talks about promoting the band and that he feels they are an important band and deserve success. In addition PJ make a return to SNL for the first time since the death of Kurt in 94. Eddie “forgives” Rolling Stone and does a cover story interview with them that’s arguably his most personal interview yet. The advance reviews trickle out, and its basically praise from all corners, Rolling Stone raves about the album and says they feel like fools for leaving Mike out of the top guitarists list issue, and they call the album “their best album in a decade” etc etc… They promote their album in the press rigorously, doing interviews, appearing on covers. I would say Avocado was the most promoted PJ album since Vs. They even do a corporate contest promotion for a cell phone company. They may or may not have licensed some overseas car company to use their song. They do an extensive tour and are praised in numerous magazines as one of the most important and best live bands out there.
After all this, 2 years after the album was released, PJ is as obscure as they were in 2005 before the release of the record. Despite the Into the Wild success, Eddie isn’t going to be in the pages of People anytime soon and neither PJ or Eddie are going to be topping Billboard for 10 weeks straight. Avocado and the Into the Wild soundtrack aren’t huge sellers. Millions of new fans didn’t flock to the band. I don’t think kids who are 15 or 18 or whatever are raving to their friends about the anticipation they feel waiting for the follow up to Avocado. Kids these days are raving about My Chemical Romance or Rhianna or Modest Mouse.
My question is why was it not a success? Avocado is indeed their best album in a long time, and their most accessible, so why did it fail so miserably at least in terms of J Records, Clive Davis and promotional standpoints. It’s a great album and a success in that respect, but it seems the band and the label were in agreement this time out, they wanted to sell records. Fact of the matter is, they didn’t.
excuse me im 16 and am stoked for the follow up. I hate My Chemical Romance. love Modest Mouse they are a talented band.
Anyways, I agree it didn't seem to boost them up or anything. Into The Wild actually got me even more into PJ tho.
I actually haven't ran into any PJ fans at my high school (2000 kids)
I thought it was a really good album not amazing like yield or ten or vs but still realyl good and I'm curious how well their next album is going to do.
Exactly. Popular music doesn't focus on band's that peaked 15 years ago.
the band didn't peak 15 yrs ago,their popularity did.i hope that's what you meant to say.
with all the shit music that gets air play now a days,it doesn't surprise me PJ didn't top the charts.that place is now reserved for mindless,hedonistic head-ache inducing noise pollution!
that's why you will find certain circles of teens reverting back to '70s rock.i took my 13 yr old to see PJ in '06 and she was blown away! but she was raised in a musically diverse household and has learned to appreciate older stuff.
besides,there are people on this board who are not happy with the lack of ticket availability,we certainly don't need more sharks in the water
The band peaked musically about 10 years ago. I can name a dozen bands that formed in the last decade and have released better albums in that time than the last few PJ albums, including bands that have opened for PJ.
who cares, the die hard fans love them even more thats the main thing, and im pretty sure thats the most important thing to the band.
pj have had major success in the early days, they hated it, would they want to go through that again??
Avacado is going on 800,000 sold, that is good nowadays. And Avacado just kicks too much ass for the average lame PJ fan, blah, blah you have heard it all before. "In my Tree, YaaaaY" "Comatose, Worldwide?, what is that garage dirty punk noise, ewww".
Idiots.
Comatose is a serious candidate for the worst song PJ has ever released.
who cares, the die hard fans love them even more thats the main thing, and im pretty sure thats the most important thing to the band.
pj have had major success in the early days, they hated it, would they want to go through that again??
haha good point.
There are still plenty of 10c members.
I wish I had been a teen in the 90's in the yield era that woulda been so fun.
Does PJ have 11-12 great songs to fill the next album?? Or will we have to be content with 3-4 good ones..a few that we "like" and the rest that are "okay"?? As previous poster said..its been 10 years(Yield) since a solid album on par with the best rock albums released. Early PJ every song was great and the B-sides....as well...
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Perhaps they could take an old hit and do a new version of it with a popular hip-hop artist (since that's basically what resurrected Aerosmiths career). Andre 3000 and Pearl Jam releasing "Go". (just kidding of course)
They should do 'Why Go' with POS, since he's covering it already. And his cover is fucking awesome.
Perhaps they could take an old hit and do a new version of it with a popular hip-hop artist (since that's basically what resurrected Aerosmiths career). Andre 3000 and Pearl Jam releasing "Go". (just kidding of course)
They should do 'Why Go' with POS, since he's covering it already. And his cover is fucking awesome.
Thought about that too...interesting..but you know they would get shit from fans...ie.e Chris Cornell
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
Does PJ have 11-12 great songs to fill the next album?? Or will we have to be content with 3-4 good ones..a few that we "like" and the rest that are "okay"?? As previous poster said..its been 10 years(Yield) since a solid album on par with the best rock albums released. Early PJ every song was great and the B-sides....as well...
No shit. Remember the days when they could do an album and have enough great songs to spill over 2 to every single? Oasis went through the same downfall.
That said, I think they do have the songs. Lost Dogs is one of their best albums, period. If you look at the songs they relegated to b-sides and soundtracks and whatnot, it's fucking ridiculous. It's all about whether or not they have someone around to smack them upside they head when someone says "hey, you know that song 'sad'? maybe we should just set that aside. I've got this amazing song called Cropduster/Get Right/Green Disease that would be perfect!"
Perhaps they could take an old hit and do a new version of it with a popular hip-hop artist (since that's basically what resurrected Aerosmiths career). Andre 3000 and Pearl Jam releasing "Go". (just kidding of course)
They should do 'Why Go' with POS, since he's covering it already. And his cover is fucking awesome.
Thought about that too...interesting..but you know they would get shit from fans...ie.e Chris Cornell
I think Cornell took shit because his album sucked and it was the worst of both worlds. If done well, I'd be all on board. Coldplay's version of Lost with Jay-z kicks the shit out of the original, REM's Radio Song is awesome, etc. There's plenty of room for great partnerships. Hell, they already DID it with Cypress Hill on the Judgment Night soundtrack... what I'd give to see the band bring B-Real onstage for 'Real Thing' sometime!
Does PJ have 11-12 great songs to fill the next album?? Or will we have to be content with 3-4 good ones..a few that we "like" and the rest that are "okay"?? As previous poster said..its been 10 years(Yield) since a solid album on par with the best rock albums released. Early PJ every song was great and the B-sides....as well...
I really think the band has been missing something since they stopped working with Brendan O' Brien...which is why I'm optimistic for the new one. Even the best bands in the world need someone who has an intricate knowledge of what works for a band and what doesn't to step in and tell them such. Take the new U2 record. It's probably their best in a decade, and it's because they worked with Lanois, Flood, and Eno again.
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Personally I'm a huge fan of advocado and couldnt give a flying fuck if it sells well or not, provided the band keep going, keep touring and keep putting records out I'm happy. The kids can go wild to Chemical romance type nonsense, I know its shit, and in two years they will realise it too. There are always fads in music.
Consider this....how many fans have Green Day lost since American Idiot?? Probably most of the ones they wanted to keep. Because looking back that album was shocking, and easily their worst to date, radio shit produced for kids. I have no idea how that happened, but do i want PJ going that way? not one bit.
Haven't got the time to read all 8 pages here but all I will say is...who cares what others think.
We love them and their music and that's all that matters, screw the rest, they don't know what they are missing.
Do you really want to see everyone wearing PJ shirts like Ramones fans and fake fans?
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i dig Binaural and Riot Act alot more then avocado. Tried listening to the album today but had to turn it off - the reason is the way Eddie sings. Or the lack of singing. He growls through all the rocksongs in a way, that to me, takes away energy from the songs/choruses insetad of adding to the lyrics. If he sang on Avocado like the albums up to Riot Act it would be ALOT stronger.
But why it didn't sell. The singles realesed wasn't strong enough and their videos wasn't good enough. I have seen Life Wasted and WWS videos on swedish music channels but maybe 1-2 times. Also, maybe the ugly coverart turned people off? Looks like a trance album
I remember I AM MINE being shown alot on swedish music channels, even being "hit warning" for a week (being shown for pretty much every commercial break). I think that bot Binaural and Riot Act had the potential of selling alot more albums, Avocado sounds so bad compared to theese.
But if they for the next album realesed good music videos and had great songs they could get the "revival" Avocado didn't give them. I mean, the WWS music video is one of the worst one I have seen. If they would have shown just the perfomance-part in the studio it would be OK - but the dude playing with the ball. So bad.
Hire some great director like Gondry or Romanek or someone to make a cool video that people pick up on.
But I have alot of faith in the new album. But I love Riot Act so what do I know
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Comments
Usually people tend to get over themselselves as they get older, you have been talking trash on here for as long as I remember, I still have pms where you called me an asshole and stupid and an iddiot.
My question is why do you have to be so arrogant, its your opinion but you come off like you are better than everyone including the band members.
no more shows
there albums became less important however there live shows captivate people.
2. Peer to Peer File Sharing- less people are buying full records.
3. i-tunes, etc., again, less people are buying records.
Pearl Jam will sell more records over the long haul than 99.9% of the musical acts in history. Even if it takes the next fifty to 100 years.
good point
no more shows
I agree with this almost word for word (the "almost" being that I thought Avocado was the equal of any album they ever put out, especially demonstrating how the fire and passion are just as strong as ever). Bands don't measure success by album sales anymore because almost no one is selling albums. Bands make their money touring now, and that's how it is for every band everywhere. Comparing Pearl Jam's album sales now with their sales in the early 1990s is pointless, because it's a totally changed world.
I have to be honest, i've never given two pieces of monkey crap about how much albums sell. If PJ perhaps wanted to increase awareness of themselves with Avocado then more power to them. If they release a new album and the songs fit into the setlists well enough then that is a success if you ask me. I really enjoy Avocado and think the majority of the songs fit into the setlists and sound great live.
So many people download now instead of buying CDs, so that affects most bands. PJ just worked very hard in the mid-90s to become more obscure to the mainstream, and in today's musical climate it's going to be very hard to get out of that situation if they want to.
Honestly, "Self-Titled" could've been one of the biggest selling records in the past five years, been awarded a ton of acclaim and Grammy’s and everything else. The only problem is that it would’ve cost Pearl Jam their credibility, self-respect, and integrity. You would see the band on every interview show, they would have their own customized iPods and iPhones available to buy, their music would be in the background a bunch of commercials, they would play with the American Idol kids during “Pearl Jam Week”, Ed would be out there endorsing McDonald’s new McWrap, you would see the band all over the iTunes front page, “Parachutes” would be playing the background of episodes of MTV’s “The Hills”, they would do a 24 hour takeover of MTV, and they would basically whore themselves out in any way possible.
If they would’ve done all of that, Pearl Jam “Pearl Jam”, would be one of the highest grossing albums since the digital revolution. They would make a TON of money and sell millions of albums.
Of course, I would no longer be a fan, and I would resent them for selling out.
I love the fact that Pearl Jam has been refusing to play the game since they first figured it out. I prefer that they continue doing what they’ve been doing. I love that they are considered one of the best rock bands on the planet, and that they can tour the globe and be greeted by fans and admirers everywhere they go.
Avocado is a great album filled with some amazing music. People will be “discovering it” years from now.
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I will say though that I do not understand fans blowing their loads over "Severed Hand". One of the weakest song on the album in my book. It's a skipper.
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Because it wasn't that great of an album. WWS was their most successful single since Last Kiss, but there wasn't a decent single on the rest of the album. They have intentionally forgotten how to write a great melodic rocker that people can bob their heads and sing along to on the radio.
Aerosmith
Goo Goo Dolls
U2
Green Day
REM (to a lesser extent)
There are others on the tip of my tongue, but I can't recall them. The thing is, you have to write songs that are enjoyable listens. Whoever said PJ is going to be like Neil Young and Tom Petty and the Rolling Stones is spot on. They play to a small set of diehard fans that will always give the new album a listen, but their best work is behind them. They will still draw crowds when they play live. But the majority of the world is never again going to give a fuck about the new PJ album. We're it.
Anyways, I agree it didn't seem to boost them up or anything. Into The Wild actually got me even more into PJ tho.
I actually haven't ran into any PJ fans at my high school (2000 kids)
I thought it was a really good album not amazing like yield or ten or vs but still realyl good and I'm curious how well their next album is going to do.
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The band peaked musically about 10 years ago. I can name a dozen bands that formed in the last decade and have released better albums in that time than the last few PJ albums, including bands that have opened for PJ.
pj have had major success in the early days, they hated it, would they want to go through that again??
Comatose is a serious candidate for the worst song PJ has ever released.
haha good point.
There are still plenty of 10c members.
I wish I had been a teen in the 90's in the yield era that woulda been so fun.
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They should do 'Why Go' with POS, since he's covering it already. And his cover is fucking awesome.
Thought about that too...interesting..but you know they would get shit from fans...ie.e Chris Cornell
No shit. Remember the days when they could do an album and have enough great songs to spill over 2 to every single? Oasis went through the same downfall.
That said, I think they do have the songs. Lost Dogs is one of their best albums, period. If you look at the songs they relegated to b-sides and soundtracks and whatnot, it's fucking ridiculous. It's all about whether or not they have someone around to smack them upside they head when someone says "hey, you know that song 'sad'? maybe we should just set that aside. I've got this amazing song called Cropduster/Get Right/Green Disease that would be perfect!"
I think Cornell took shit because his album sucked and it was the worst of both worlds. If done well, I'd be all on board. Coldplay's version of Lost with Jay-z kicks the shit out of the original, REM's Radio Song is awesome, etc. There's plenty of room for great partnerships. Hell, they already DID it with Cypress Hill on the Judgment Night soundtrack... what I'd give to see the band bring B-Real onstage for 'Real Thing' sometime!
I really think the band has been missing something since they stopped working with Brendan O' Brien...which is why I'm optimistic for the new one. Even the best bands in the world need someone who has an intricate knowledge of what works for a band and what doesn't to step in and tell them such. Take the new U2 record. It's probably their best in a decade, and it's because they worked with Lanois, Flood, and Eno again.
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Personally I'm a huge fan of advocado and couldnt give a flying fuck if it sells well or not, provided the band keep going, keep touring and keep putting records out I'm happy. The kids can go wild to Chemical romance type nonsense, I know its shit, and in two years they will realise it too. There are always fads in music.
Consider this....how many fans have Green Day lost since American Idiot?? Probably most of the ones they wanted to keep. Because looking back that album was shocking, and easily their worst to date, radio shit produced for kids. I have no idea how that happened, but do i want PJ going that way? not one bit.
We love them and their music and that's all that matters, screw the rest, they don't know what they are missing.
Do you really want to see everyone wearing PJ shirts like Ramones fans and fake fans?
But why it didn't sell. The singles realesed wasn't strong enough and their videos wasn't good enough. I have seen Life Wasted and WWS videos on swedish music channels but maybe 1-2 times. Also, maybe the ugly coverart turned people off? Looks like a trance album
I remember I AM MINE being shown alot on swedish music channels, even being "hit warning" for a week (being shown for pretty much every commercial break). I think that bot Binaural and Riot Act had the potential of selling alot more albums, Avocado sounds so bad compared to theese.
But if they for the next album realesed good music videos and had great songs they could get the "revival" Avocado didn't give them. I mean, the WWS music video is one of the worst one I have seen. If they would have shown just the perfomance-part in the studio it would be OK - but the dude playing with the ball. So bad.
Hire some great director like Gondry or Romanek or someone to make a cool video that people pick up on.
But I have alot of faith in the new album. But I love Riot Act so what do I know