71% Mo. voters reject key provision of health care law

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Comments

  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,066
    redrock wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    I guess some governments/countries take better care of their people than others.
    i would like to live in a country that has national health care at some point in my life. but since i would not be a citizen of tha country when i arrive i might be eligible for coverage.
    .
    In the UK any resident is entitled to free health care. You need to be here legally and show you are 'settled' (ie studying, working, etc.). If you can demonstrate that, there is no minimum 'waiting' period. This is for 'normal' healthcare. Naturally emergencies, walk-ins at A&E etc. are open to everyone (family planning too!). EU residents are entitled to NHS care as well with no strings attached. This is obviously very broad but it gives you the gist of things.

    Naturally, the NHS is FAR from perfect but it's 100 times better than what is on offer (or rather not on offer) in the US.
    wow that sounds pretty sweet. i read that and i wonder "why can't we do something like that in the US??"

    then i remember i have 71% of the 23% of eligible voters in my home state showing up at the polls and voting to reject part of obama's health plan....go figure...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    I'm thinking that a lot of people against healthcare proposals don't even know what it's about.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Food, Shelter, healthcare - If you can't afford those then you need to cut back on whatever you are spending your money on. These are all affordable.

    Have you ever actually paid 100% out-of-pocket for healthcare for your entire family for any considerable length of time?

    I think it's hysterical that you keep saying everyone else should be more prepared, but when we point out that you're not really prepared you say, "Well you can't be prepared for everything!" :roll:
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    redrock wrote:
    I'm thinking that a lot of people against healthcare proposals don't even know what it's about.

    I think you just hit the nail on the head.
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Why does it always go back to the idea that some group of people are getting all the free passes in society and everyone is tired of paying their tab? This is such a huge and overstated misnomer in every facet of the commentary. The fact is our system inherently separates people economically, and albeit some can change that, it's not practically feasible or reasonable to expect everyone to do so. The general public is not you, it's everyone, so simply because you find something possible or have a positive experience with something, doesn't make it so for everyone. Lastly, how hard is it to acknowledge that everyone in our society should be afforded basic things like food, healthcare, housing, etc? The reality is we don't because we make disgusting characterizations on why some don't deserve it or how it's their own fault they can't get to a normal standing. Quite frankly it's despicable and shows on so many levels why we are such a morally bankrupt society. We value money over people and it's grotesque.
    Yeah this discussion is going no where because wherever you turn there's someone complaining that milkshakes and scented candles are not a right so neither should be health.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    redrock wrote:
    I'm thinking that a lot of people against healthcare proposals don't even know what it's about.
    They know what it's about...
    Communist agendas! 8-)
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    last time - And please answer these -
    Why is shelter not a rite?
    Are you not given opportunities (education, food, welfare, etc.) in life to succeed? If you are given all those, should it not be your responsibilitiy to either use these opportunities to succeed in life or not?
    We are all given those opportunities, some will have to work harder than others but thats life, were not all born in great situations.
    Why if you are given all these opportunities how can you not afford health care?
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    scb wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Food, Shelter, healthcare - If you can't afford those then you need to cut back on whatever you are spending your money on. These are all affordable.

    Have you ever actually paid 100% out-of-pocket for healthcare for your entire family for any considerable length of time?

    I think it's hysterical that you keep saying everyone else should be more prepared, but when we point out that you're not really prepared you say, "Well you can't be prepared for everything!" :roll:
    Yes I have... 6 months. Whats your definition of considerable?
    I was refering to personal responsibilities such as bills, needs, etc. Yes you should be prepared for things of that nature. But no you can not be prepared for freak accidents (natural, Health issues with no coverage)
    I think its hysterical that you can't differentiate between the two...
  • TriumphantAngel
    TriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    redrock wrote:
    I live in a country with a National Health Care system (amongst other things!). I've lived in countries without. No prize for you in guessing which system I would rather live in.
    i agree.

    when i moved to the US, i came from a country that had Universal Health care, so have worked under both systems. working in the US is like the dark ages. being tied to a hopelessly corrupt system of financial exploitation and monopoly while abandoning the sick to protect profits, then listening to the politicians actually negotiatiating on behalf of big pharma to make sure Americans keep paying the highest prices in the world for medications. awesome. drug companies are now among the richest corporations in the world.

    it's really not much good having some of the best health care facilities and Doctors in the world (which the US do), if people don't have access to it in a timely and afforable manner.
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    HeidiJam wrote:
    last time - And please answer these -
    Why is shelter not a rite?
    Are you not given opportunities (education, food, welfare, etc.) in life to succeed? If you are given all those, should it not be your responsibilitiy to either use these opportunities to succeed in life or not?
    We are all given those opportunities, some will have to work harder than others but thats life, were not all born in great situations.
    Why if you are given all these opportunities how can you not afford health care?
    So only the opportune deserve health care?
    And no, not everyone has the same opportunities. Just because you come from the land of opportunity doesn't mean its the same across the board.

    Its awesome some people can overcome obstacles and yes people are given opportunities but the REALITY is not everyone can be a rags to riches story
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Exactly, apparently Hedijam hasn't read the facts about how many people are forced to declare bankruptcy each year as a result of medical costs or sell their homes or spend their retirement funds. And forget about the simple fact that there's no jobs in our nation and the middle class is shrinking.. but yes it's the land of economic mobility where the rich can get richer and the poor can get poorer. That's the vast majority of our system at work, and it has zero to do with how hard you work, the opportunities you can try and make available, or how many alleged people are living off the governments expense.
    haffajappa wrote:
    So only the opportune deserve health care?
    And no, not everyone has the same opportunities. Just because you come from the land of opportunity doesn't mean its the same across the board.

    Its awesome some people can overcome obstacles and yes people are given opportunities but the REALITY is not everyone can be a rags to riches story
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    haffajappa wrote:
    Yeah this discussion is going no where because wherever you turn there's someone complaining that milkshakes and scented candles are not a right so neither should be health.
    :lol::lol:
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    HeidiJam wrote:
    scb wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Food, Shelter, healthcare - If you can't afford those then you need to cut back on whatever you are spending your money on. These are all affordable.

    Have you ever actually paid 100% out-of-pocket for healthcare for your entire family for any considerable length of time?

    I think it's hysterical that you keep saying everyone else should be more prepared, but when we point out that you're not really prepared you say, "Well you can't be prepared for everything!" :roll:
    Yes I have... 6 months. Whats your definition of considerable?
    I was refering to personal responsibilities such as bills, needs, etc. Yes you should be prepared for things of that nature. But no you can not be prepared for freak accidents (natural, Health issues with no coverage)
    I think its hysterical that you can't differentiate between the two...

    Injury, illness, & poor health are not freak accidents - they happen to nearly everyone at some point or another.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    HeidiJam wrote:
    last time - And please answer these -
    Why is shelter not a rite?
    Are you not given opportunities (education, food, welfare, etc.) in life to succeed? If you are given all those, should it not be your responsibilitiy to either use these opportunities to succeed in life or not?
    We are all given those opportunities, some will have to work harder than others but thats life, were not all born in great situations.
    Why if you are given all these opportunities how can you not afford health care?

    I think some people dispute your repeated claim that everyone has the same opportunities. Your claim that healthcare is affordable is also in dispute (in fact you may be the only person I've ever known to make such a claim).

    And I already said shelter is a right.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Are you not given opportunities (education, food, welfare, etc.) in life to succeed? If you are given all those, should it not be your responsibilitiy to either use these opportunities to succeed in life or not?

    Not all are given equal opportunities. And even if you are born in a family which offers these opportunities at more than a basic level, you may not be able to use these at your best advantage (through no fault of your own, ie laziness..). Even if you have succeeded, you can fall just as quickly. Also, what is to 'succeed in life'? Has a short order cook or a janitor 'succeeded in life' as much as the CEO of a large firm or a lawyer or doctor? From my point of view they have (ie they have a job, etc.). Can those who have 'succeeded' but are at the lower echelon afford the healthcare a CEO can? Nope. And before one says that the janitor can aim higher and it's his/her own fault for being in a menial jobs, remember - someone has to do them. And maybe that's where the 'given opportunities' were not so equal.

    Example about healthcare.... I have a specialist hospital appointment today. A growth was discovered (no charge to see your doctor, anytime). Got my appointment within two weeks of initial discovery. Today, I will be having scans, tests and will be seeing a specialist consultant who will decide the course of action. I will walk in, let the professionals do what they need to do and walk out (and eventually continue with treatment). I will not pay a penny, have to sort stuff out with insurance companies waiting for them to decide whether they will pay out this time or not. Any health issue is already stressful, at least I don't have the financial/insurance side of things to add to this stress. Wondering how it would be if I lived in the US....
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    redrock wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Are you not given opportunities (education, food, welfare, etc.) in life to succeed? If you are given all those, should it not be your responsibilitiy to either use these opportunities to succeed in life or not?

    Not all are given equal opportunities. And even if you are born in a family which offers these opportunities at more than a basic level, you may not be able to use these at your best advantage (through no fault of your own, ie laziness..). Even if you have succeeded, you can fall just as quickly. Also, what is to 'succeed in life'? Has a short order cook or a janitor 'succeeded in life' as much as the CEO of a large firm or a lawyer or doctor? From my point of view they have (ie they have a job, etc.). Can those who have 'succeeded' but are at the lower echelon afford the healthcare a CEO can? Nope. And before one says that the janitor can aim higher and it's his/her own fault for being in a menial jobs, remember - someone has to do them. And maybe that's where the 'given opportunities' were not so equal.

    Example about healthcare.... I have a specialist hospital appointment today. A growth was discovered. Got my appointment within two weeks of initial discovery. Today, I will be having scans, tests and will be seeing a specialist consultant who will decide the course of action. I will walk in, let the professionals do what they need to do and walk out (and eventually continue with treatment). I will not pay a penny, have to sort stuff out with insurance companies waiting for them to decide whether they will pay out this time or not. Any health issue is already stressful, at least I don't have the financial/insurance side of things to add to this stress. Wondering how it would be if I lived in the US....

    If you lived here you wouldn't even have been seen yet.

    Hope all goes well with your appointment! :)
  • whygohome
    whygohome Posts: 2,305
    Nobody wants healthcare/INs. until they get sick

    Nobody wants Social Security until they're old and need the money

    Nobody wants Medicare until they are old and realize they can't afford private ins. on their tight budget

    Nobody wants unemployment until they get fu#$ed over by their faceless, corporate boss

    Nobody wants a tax increase in order to fund a new firehouse until their home is burning to the ground

    Bottom line: We are all in it for ourselves and anytime you ask one of us to put the whole before ourselves, we scream socialism or whatever keyword is being thrown around at the time. Me,me, me, me, me.....I'm tired.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    scb wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Are you not given opportunities (education, food, welfare, etc.) in life to succeed? If you are given all those, should it not be your responsibilitiy to either use these opportunities to succeed in life or not?

    Not all are given equal opportunities. And even if you are born in a family which offers these opportunities at more than a basic level, you may not be able to use these at your best advantage (through no fault of your own, ie laziness..). Even if you have succeeded, you can fall just as quickly. Also, what is to 'succeed in life'? Has a short order cook or a janitor 'succeeded in life' as much as the CEO of a large firm or a lawyer or doctor? From my point of view they have (ie they have a job, etc.). Can those who have 'succeeded' but are at the lower echelon afford the healthcare a CEO can? Nope. And before one says that the janitor can aim higher and it's his/her own fault for being in a menial jobs, remember - someone has to do them. And maybe that's where the 'given opportunities' were not so equal.

    Example about healthcare.... I have a specialist hospital appointment today. A growth was discovered. Got my appointment within two weeks of initial discovery. Today, I will be having scans, tests and will be seeing a specialist consultant who will decide the course of action. I will walk in, let the professionals do what they need to do and walk out (and eventually continue with treatment). I will not pay a penny, have to sort stuff out with insurance companies waiting for them to decide whether they will pay out this time or not. Any health issue is already stressful, at least I don't have the financial/insurance side of things to add to this stress. Wondering how it would be if I lived in the US....

    If you lived here you wouldn't even have been seen yet.

    Hope all goes well with your appointment! :)

    Thanks.


    There's all kinds of talks about 'waiting times' but I came across this:

    "In a 2009 survey of physician appointment wait times in the United States..... Nationwide across the U.S. the average wait time to see a family doctor was 20 days. The average wait time to see a family practioner in Los Angeles, California was 59 days and in Boston, Massachusetts it was 63 days.[56]"

    I get to see my doctor within a couple of days. It can be a day or two longer wait if it is during very busy periods.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    whygohome wrote:
    Nobody wants healthcare/INs. until they get sick

    Nobody wants Social Security until they're old and need the money

    Nobody wants Medicare until they are old and realize they can't afford private ins. on their tight budget

    Nobody wants unemployment until they get fu#$ed over by their faceless, corporate boss

    Nobody wants a tax increase in order to fund a new firehouse until their home is burning to the ground

    Bottom line: We are all in it for ourselves and anytime you ask one of us to put the whole before ourselves, we scream socialism or whatever keyword is being thrown around at the time. Me,me, me, me, me.....I'm tired.

    Oh so true. Though they throw the word 'socialism' around a lot, I don't think most americans even know what socialism is!
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    redrock wrote:
    whygohome wrote:
    Nobody wants healthcare/INs. until they get sick

    Nobody wants Social Security until they're old and need the money

    Nobody wants Medicare until they are old and realize they can't afford private ins. on their tight budget

    Nobody wants unemployment until they get fu#$ed over by their faceless, corporate boss

    Nobody wants a tax increase in order to fund a new firehouse until their home is burning to the ground

    Bottom line: We are all in it for ourselves and anytime you ask one of us to put the whole before ourselves, we scream socialism or whatever keyword is being thrown around at the time. Me,me, me, me, me.....I'm tired.

    Oh so true. Though they throw the word 'socialism' around a lot, I don't think most americans even know what socialism is!
    My favourite was when someone on this board cried socialism when rural areas in their neighbourhood were being eaten up by condominiums being built by private corporations. What was so socialist about it? The fact that they acquired that land by knowing people in the right places... :shock: :lol:
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam

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