I guess some governments/countries take better care of their people than others.
i would like to live in a country that has national health care at some point in my life. but since i would not be a citizen of tha country when i arrive i might be eligible for coverage.
.
In the UK any resident is entitled to free health care. You need to be here legally and show you are 'settled' (ie studying, working, etc.). If you can demonstrate that, there is no minimum 'waiting' period. This is for 'normal' healthcare. Naturally emergencies, walk-ins at A&E etc. are open to everyone (family planning too!). EU residents are entitled to NHS care as well with no strings attached. This is obviously very broad but it gives you the gist of things.
Naturally, the NHS is FAR from perfect but it's 100 times better than what is on offer (or rather not on offer) in the US.
There is no such thing as free health care anywhere in the world. You may think it is free, or maybe they tell you it is free, but somehow, you pay for it.
Do me a favor and post some data backing up what you claim (how everyone is lazy and living off the government and more importantly, how healthcare is affortable -which is laughable). We'll all be here waiting, but I doubt you'll post anything legitimate if at all.
Please show me where i used the term "mass" And it is not a overstated generalization when the rates of welfare & foodstamps continue to rise. People are using these programs as means to live...
No most of you are trying to argue that health care is a right, and now that i have proven you wrong on several accounts, you are now reverting back being defensive since you have nothing left to say.
What makes you think giving these things to people and not having them earn it is better for society. Once you quit rewarding laziness in the form of gov checks, then you will see a better society. You should provide for your family the basic needs. If everyone is entitled to basic needs then why do i have to buy my own food, why don't i get food stamps??? I work but i don't want to spend my money on food that should be provided to me RIGHT??? I don't think everyone is lazy, but I do think that people lack personal responsibilities, and what my wife experiences in an inner city school (issues with parents care) and where we live, I am most certinly allowed to voice my opinion on mine and my wifes experiences and it is that people that recieve the gov check are lazy and feel entitled to it. And now you want to throw in health care??? I don't know anybody that has ever complained to me that their health care is not affordable, so quit making mass generalizaionts that people can't pay for their own health care.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Do you consider the millions of Americans on Unemployment as a result of one of the worse economic recessions in recent memory, lazy? Just curious what constitutes your broad generalization.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
why don't you stop derailing the thread and just come on out and say what you feel. you are against the health care reform because you feel it is taking money away from you. why not just state you agree with the 71% of the 23% of missouri voters that voted as a referendum against obama instead of allowing assistance for the uninsured? why not just admit you are only thinking of yourself and spare us the arguments and debates about "rites" and unalienable "rights"?
and you talk of "providing health care for themselves"....which is impossible...health care is provided by the providers, as in medical health professionals ie MDs, DOs, nurses, emts, physical therapists, mental health professionals, etc. i guarantee you are not "providing health care" to yourself or your family members. you are simply paying for the insurance company to pay your health care providers for providing a service to you and nothing more.
Quit being such a cry baby. No I am thinking towards the future... THe sooner we get ride of entitlement programs and have people work for their own goods and services then society will only get better. How an i being selfish when my paychecks support these people. And i am pretty sure I donate much more time and money then you will ever obtain in your life to charitys. Just because i don't think healthcare is a right makes me a selfish person.??? Quit getting all emotional about this and just recognize that i have a different opinion than you do. I have yet to make a personal attack on any of you or your comments yet you guys are making personal attacks towards me and my comments. ANd No i did not talk about providing health care for themselves, please take a look back and highligh if you will where i said that. No i am not providing health care, but there would not be any health care if people like my self didn't pay for it THEMSELVES. I will state that I don't think health care is a right. And i think i have provided pleanty of reasons why. And i never said that i support the current system either. You have yet to ask me how I would like the system to be. You just assume that because I am arguing weather it is a right, i must be for the current system.
Do you consider the millions of Americans on Unemployment as a result of one of the worse economic recessions in recent memory, lazy? Just curious what constitutes your broad generalization.
Do me a favor and post some data backing up what you claim (how everyone is lazy and living off the government and more importantly, how healthcare is affortable -which is laughable). We'll all be here waiting, but I doubt you'll post anything legitimate if at all.
Please show me where i used the term "mass" And it is not a overstated generalization when the rates of welfare & foodstamps continue to rise. People are using these programs as means to live...
No most of you are trying to argue that health care is a right, and now that i have proven you wrong on several accounts, you are now reverting back being defensive since you have nothing left to say.
What makes you think giving these things to people and not having them earn it is better for society. Once you quit rewarding laziness in the form of gov checks, then you will see a better society. You should provide for your family the basic needs. If everyone is entitled to basic needs then why do i have to buy my own food, why don't i get food stamps??? I work but i don't want to spend my money on food that should be provided to me RIGHT??? I don't think everyone is lazy, but I do think that people lack personal responsibilities, and what my wife experiences in an inner city school (issues with parents care) and where we live, I am most certinly allowed to voice my opinion on mine and my wifes experiences and it is that people that recieve the gov check are lazy and feel entitled to it. And now you want to throw in health care??? I don't know anybody that has ever complained to me that their health care is not affordable, so quit making mass generalizaionts that people can't pay for their own health care.
WHy don't you address the post. AND what is the continual rise in welfare and food stamps. That must equate hard work and back luck huh???
why don't you stop derailing the thread and just come on out and say what you feel. you are against the health care reform because you feel it is taking money away from you. why not just state you agree with the 71% of the 23% of missouri voters that voted as a referendum against obama instead of allowing assistance for the uninsured? why not just admit you are only thinking of yourself and spare us the arguments and debates about "rites" and unalienable "rights"?
and you talk of "providing health care for themselves"....which is impossible...health care is provided by the providers, as in medical health professionals ie MDs, DOs, nurses, emts, physical therapists, mental health professionals, etc. i guarantee you are not "providing health care" to yourself or your family members. you are simply paying for the insurance company to pay your health care providers for providing a service to you and nothing more.
Quit being such a cry baby. No I am thinking towards the future... THe sooner we get ride of entitlement programs and have people work for their own goods and services then society will only get better. How an i being selfish when my paychecks support these people. And i am pretty sure I donate much more time and money then you will ever obtain in your life to charitys. Just because i don't think healthcare is a right makes me a selfish person.??? Quit getting all emotional about this and just recognize that i have a different opinion than you do. I have yet to make a personal attack on any of you or your comments yet you guys are making personal attacks towards me and my comments. ANd No i did not talk about providing health care for themselves, please take a look back and highligh if you will where i said that. No i am not providing health care, but there would not be any health care if people like my self didn't pay for it THEMSELVES. I will state that I don't think health care is a right. And i think i have provided pleanty of reasons why. And i never said that i support the current system either. You have yet to ask me how I would like the system to be. You just assume that because I am arguing weather it is a right, i must be for the current system.
cry baby? that is hilarious. tell me another one... :roll: now you are calling for ending all entitlement programs? you are being selfish in the fact that you are claiming that massive amounts of money from your check are going to pay for "those people"...will you define "those people" by the way? anyway, we live in a society and as a member of that society you must pay taxes for things and providing foodstamps is one of those things your taxes pay for. i didn't want to pay for these 2 damn wars, but guess what, i am paying my taxes and not bitching about where the money is going. it sounds to me that you are the one being the crybaby complaining about that small percentage of your check going ot help others.. what is your tax bracket? you should have gotten a tax CUT this year unless you are in the top 5% of the population income wise....and by the way, tell me about your charitable contributions. my band, my side job, donated over $15,000 of our income from 5 shows and collected another $8000 in donations for hurricane relief in the gulf in the month of august of 2005. i am not patting myself on the back, but i am just willing to bet that you have never done anything like that.
so let me get this straight. you pay for your healthcare yourself? you do not have health insurance and you pay cash for all of your meds and doctor's office visits? because that is what you are leading all of us to believe here. and i will find where you said you are providing care yourself. it is in at least 2 posts this week.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i would like to live in a country that has national health care at some point in my life. but since i would not be a citizen of tha country when i arrive i might be eligible for coverage.
.
In the UK any resident is entitled to free health care. You need to be here legally and show you are 'settled' (ie studying, working, etc.). If you can demonstrate that, there is no minimum 'waiting' period. This is for 'normal' healthcare. Naturally emergencies, walk-ins at A&E etc. are open to everyone (family planning too!). EU residents are entitled to NHS care as well with no strings attached. This is obviously very broad but it gives you the gist of things.
Naturally, the NHS is FAR from perfect but it's 100 times better than what is on offer (or rather not on offer) in the US.
There is no such thing as free health care anywhere in the world. You may think it is free, or maybe they tell you it is free, but somehow, you pay for it.
As mentioned numerous times in numerous threads (and in this one too), one pays for this via taxes, obviously. When I say 'free', I mean you go to the doctor, you don't hand cash, you go to the hospital, you don't have to have your credit card swiped before anyone even looks at you. If you have a sick child, you don't have to worry whether your insurance will pay (assuming you are able to afford one). You can get yourself treated for anything, even an 'event' due to a pre-condition (which most insurances will not pay for) without have to worry about it. No co-payment, etc. Just walk in, get treated, walk out.
Simply because you don't like my answers (which I have mentioned lots in this thread) doesn't mean I'm not addressing your comments. And you love to keep mentioning the rise of these things but completely ignore the important question of why they are on it. It's got very little to do with laziness, and everything to do with our system. The only thing lazy is your opinion on the topic which makes it a very black and white (pun intended) skewed discussion of the reality of these matters. It's a lot easier to say people are lazy than to address why everyone is getting the shaft in our society.
WHy don't you address the post. AND what is the continual rise in welfare and food stamps. That must equate hard work and back luck huh???
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i didn't want to pay for these 2 damn wars, but guess what, i am paying my taxes and not bitching about where the money is going.
Let's not get crazy here
I'm not sure that I would agree that Health Care is a right. That seems a bit odd. I mean, what gives anyone the right to deserve Health Care? I find very few things to be rights that must be granted.
That said, I think the Health Care debate is more about human decency. It is one area where a hard working individual can even have Health Insurance and end up bankrupt and without proper care. How is that possible? Lots of non-lazy people end up with catastrophic illnesses that lead them to a terrible place. Additionally, there are a lot of people out there that are looking for work...very hard...trying to find something. They shouldn't have to worry about health care.
Now, what do you do about the habitual welfare recipients and the generations of welfare recipients that they create? Do they get health care simply because they are alive? I don't think so, but you have to figure out a way for them to be part of the system if they meet certain criteria...just like getting unemployment.
I guess there needs to be a way for everyone to have reasonable access to health care...and if they don't do enough to meet the criteria, that's on them.
Do you consider the millions of Americans on Unemployment as a result of one of the worse economic recessions in recent memory, lazy? Just curious what constitutes your broad generalization.
Simply because you don't like my answers (which I have mentioned lots in this thread) doesn't mean I'm not addressing your comments. And you love to keep mentioning the rise of these things but completely ignore the important question of why they are on it. It's got very little to do with laziness, and everything to do with our system. The only thing lazy is your opinion on the topic which makes it a very black and white (pun intended) skewed discussion of the reality of these matters. It's a lot easier to say people are lazy than to address why everyone is getting the shaft in our society.
Yeah your right, Its not the peoples fault there on welfare, its someone elses fault......... I've heard that one before.
I never said i didn't like your answers, You were trying to argue that Health care is a right. And its not. The the reason of the rise of welfare and food stamps is because it is now an accepted life style. ANd people like you are advocating the lifestyle.
And please explain why my opinion is lazy, i have answered all your your questions and you have skipped over several posts of mine and completely ignored my last two posts on health care being a right that proved you wrong. Your right, maybe i should be like you guys and blame everybody else and the systems. No one can afford this and no one can afford that. Its everybodys fault. Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen. Thats what your posts read like.
I think perhaps living in Australia where we do pay for healthcare in our tax system has twisted my stance on this issue but I cannot comprehend people not wanting people to receive heathcare. We receive unempolyment and lower to middle income families even receive family payment to help with keeping families afloat. My husband and I both work and are happy to pay our share and know that we will be able to sleep at night if the unfortunate happens to one of us or our children. Perhaps as another poster said you have to live in a country with national healthcare to undersatnd how comforting it is..... a friend of mine has had cardiomyopathy??? (I do not know how to spell it???). He has had untold amounts of medical traeatment for the last 20 (he is only 40 now) years, culminating in a heart transplant last year and it has not cost any money. Had he not had healthcare he and his very supportive family would have lost everything in their bid to keep him alive...... Due to his health he can not work full time he did not choose this and he did not cause it. So without a supportive system he would eventually have no income (and hence food and shelter) no matter what. I think it is far more important to value life over money. I am happy to pay the extra tax for those less fortunate then myself..... I am shocked that there are people that think others should die over affordability because my friend would have died.
Just my two cents and a ponit of view from another system.
“The human race has only one really effective weapon and that is laughter.” Mark Twain
Once again, provide details.. still waiting on facts. Go ahead and show through data your right. I and others have stated tons of details on why you are incorrect, but you just harp on phrases, not data. Just cause you believe something doesn't make it true... but facts are truth...so go ahead.. prove us wrong.
I never said i didn't like your answers, You were trying to argue that Health care is a right. And its not. The the reason of the rise of welfare and food stamps is because it is now an accepted life style. ANd people like you are advocating the lifestyle.
And please explain why my opinion is lazy, i have answered all your your questions and you have skipped over several posts of mine and completely ignored my last two posts on health care being a right that proved you wrong. Your right, maybe i should be like you guys and blame everybody else and the systems. No one can afford this and no one can afford that. Its everybodys fault. Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen. Thats what your posts read like.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Concerning unemployment benefits and welfare, you're both right. People are on it because they lost/can't get a job and because they are lazy (and yes, the program can make people lazy).
Like everything, there is no easy solution other than strict regulation. But, our government has been so financially incompetent - which, in turn, has affected the individual states - they likely are unable to pay for the reorganization of an existing department or the creation of a new one.
can i just say, having been on a type of welfare in the past, that it is ridiculously insufficient.
the only thing i wanted to do was get out and get a job and see some decent paychecks. it motivated me to get a job, not to be complacent.
its a buffer. a way for people not to starve to death when greedy capitalists decide to send their jobs overseas or hire an illegal.
what's even more fucked.....we have the resources in this country to employ everyone, pay them a living wage, and give them healthcare. there is more than plenty for all, especially here, in the center of empire. were profit not guiding policy (and public consent, trhough media) we could be living in a very
(what would seem to be) idealist state. we could provide for everyone and then some, were the fat cats not so greedy. think about wallmart, how they have more money than saudi arabia, or any number of companies.....all of this wealth is going to the top...the idea that we are in trouble is a scam. they are in trouble, they might not get that 5th house in the hamptons with that 1000 foot pool, that't the real crises.
and if people were to find out just how much they are being taken advantage of, that's the real crises of democracy.
You were trying to argue that Health care is a right. And its not. ......And please explain why my opinion is lazy, i have answered all your your questions and you have skipped over several posts of mine and completely ignored my last two posts on health care being a right that proved you wrong. .
I would say that most of us have been arguing that healthcare is a Human Right (as stated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights), not a right. This is the difference that you do not seem to understand.
....completely ignored my last two posts... Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen.
Maybe this type of comment is made to be ignored? Flippancy usually doesn't require response.
Had he not had healthcare he and his very supportive family would have lost everything in their bid to keep him alive...... Due to his health he can not work full time he did not choose this and he did not cause it. So without a supportive system he would eventually have no income (and hence food and shelter) no matter what. .
I would hate to think what would have happened to him and his family in the USA. Cardiomyopathy is largely herediatry, therefore considered as a pre-existing condition (even if you didn't know) and insurances will weasel their way out of paying for those.
I think it is far more important to value life over money. I am happy to pay the extra tax for those less fortunate then myself..... I am shocked that there are people that think others should die over affordability because my friend would have died. .
I so agree with you there. If I were living in the US and did not have the system we have in place here, I would be without a husband and my daughter without a father. Or maybe he would still be alive but a vegetable or with no quality of life.
Why do you keep insisting that healthcare is affordable despite the evidence that virtually no one in the United States can necessarily afford it? And please back up your response with cited data.
Why do you support a system (private health insurance) where some people pay more than their share and others take more than their share, but reject a such a system only when it would mean coverage for everyone (public health insurance)? How can you reject this system and support the unemployment system?
We are fortunate and proud to live in a nation that has the ability to care for the health of our ENTIRE population. As a rich and proud nation, why on earth would we not choose to care for our own people?
Why do you value your money over the health of others?
....completely ignored my last two posts... Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen.
Maybe this type of comment is made to be ignored? Flippancy usually doesn't require response.
What are you like 16 years old??? Quote my entire post, not just cherry pick. I didn't flip anything i simply said
"Your right, maybe i should be like you guys and blame everybody else and the systems. No one can afford this and no one can afford that. Its everybodys fault. Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen". You can't possibly be that stupid. Are you???
Why do you keep insisting that healthcare is affordable despite the evidence that virtually no one in the United States can necessarily afford it? And please back up your response with cited data.
Why do you support a system (private health insurance) where some people pay more than their share and others take more than their share, but reject a such a system only when it would mean coverage for everyone (public health insurance)? How can you reject this system and support the unemployment system?
We are fortunate and proud to live in a nation that has the ability to care for the health of our ENTIRE population. As a rich and proud nation, why on earth would we not choose to care for our own people?
Why do you value your money over the health of others?
No, i was saying that healthcare insurace is affordable, which in turn makes healthcare affordable. Where is your data that healh insurance is not affordable. Just because people don't have it does not mean its not affordable. People have a choice on what to spend their money on, and some don't think that health insurance is that important. I can only support that system that i know and that I have had no issues with. I have had no issue witht he current system and it is the only system that I know. How is that not a good enough answer, I am not going to say taht universial health care is better when i have never experienced it. How can you say that??? We are a fortunate nation that SOME have the ability to pay for health care, others will simply receive a service that they will not pay for. I am not choosing to NOT care for our own people, Its that your using the word RIGHT as a disguise to cover what is really is, and that is dependancy. We can't continue to prop people back up just to continually leach the system. My concern is that I don't see an end to the constant FORCED chairity, And i fear that we are a few generations away from deeming priviliges as rights. We are already on that path we are now supplying cell phones to people on welfar. That is a privlige, yet we are now treating that as a right.
....completely ignored my last two posts... Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen.
Maybe this type of comment is made to be ignored? Flippancy usually doesn't require response.
What are you like 16 years old??? Quote my entire post, not just cherry pick. I didn't flip anything i simply said
"Your right, maybe i should be like you guys and blame everybody else and the systems. No one can afford this and no one can afford that. Its everybodys fault. Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen". You can't possibly be that stupid. Are you???
who's saying everything is a right...?
I think you're just making stuff up now....
And why do you hate people so much...? seriously, you present yourself as angry individual...
And why do you hate people so much...? seriously, you present yourself as angry individual...
Your saying health care is a right and its not. I am simply asking where does it end, and no one can answer me because you keep disguising the word right with dependancy. And what have I made up. I have done nothing but express my opinion on the matter? And if you don't think people are lazy then i feel sorry for you. Why do you think I hate people??? because i don't think health care is a right???
I am not an angry individual, you think that because I don't agree with yoru point of view... Sorry, but unlike you I am not a pansy and I think it is time for people to start taking care of them selves. if you can't respect of understand that then quit replying to my posts.
Health insurance and healthcare costs have been skyrocketing for years now... it is one of the many causes of our big healthcare problem we face as a nation. Not sure where you are getting the idea that these things are "affordable", but please do some research which is very easy to find and you'll clearly see you are incorrect about affordability.
No, i was saying that healthcare insurace is affordable, which in turn makes healthcare affordable. Where is your data that healh insurance is not affordable. Just because people don't have it does not mean its not affordable. People have a choice on what to spend their money on, and some don't think that health insurance is that important. I can only support that system that i know and that I have had no issues with. I have had no issue witht he current system and it is the only system that I know. How is that not a good enough answer, I am not going to say taht universial health care is better when i have never experienced it. How can you say that??? We are a fortunate nation that SOME have the ability to pay for health care, others will simply receive a service that they will not pay for. I am not choosing to NOT care for our own people, Its that your using the word RIGHT as a disguise to cover what is really is, and that is dependancy. We can't continue to prop people back up just to continually leach the system. My concern is that I don't see an end to the constant FORCED chairity, And i fear that we are a few generations away from deeming priviliges as rights. We are already on that path we are now supplying cell phones to people on welfar. That is a privlige, yet we are now treating that as a right.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Why do you keep insisting that healthcare is affordable despite the evidence that virtually no one in the United States can necessarily afford it? And please back up your response with cited data.
Why do you support a system (private health insurance) where some people pay more than their share and others take more than their share, but reject a such a system only when it would mean coverage for everyone (public health insurance)? How can you reject this system and support the unemployment system?
We are fortunate and proud to live in a nation that has the ability to care for the health of our ENTIRE population. As a rich and proud nation, why on earth would we not choose to care for our own people?
Why do you value your money over the health of others?
No, i was saying that healthcare insurace is affordable, which in turn makes healthcare affordable. Where is your data that healh insurance is not affordable. Just because people don't have it does not mean its not affordable. People have a choice on what to spend their money on, and some don't think that health insurance is that important. I can only support that system that i know and that I have had no issues with. I have had no issue witht he current system and it is the only system that I know. How is that not a good enough answer, I am not going to say taht universial health care is better when i have never experienced it. How can you say that??? We are a fortunate nation that SOME have the ability to pay for health care, others will simply receive a service that they will not pay for. I am not choosing to NOT care for our own people, Its that your using the word RIGHT as a disguise to cover what is really is, and that is dependancy. We can't continue to prop people back up just to continually leach the system. My concern is that I don't see an end to the constant FORCED chairity, And i fear that we are a few generations away from deeming priviliges as rights. We are already on that path we are now supplying cell phones to people on welfar. That is a privlige, yet we are now treating that as a right.
here are a couple of slides showing how health care is not affordable for the average person in the united states. the first one shows that a vast mojority of the uninsured are either unemployed or "working poor" meaning they are working but below the poverty level, thus unable to afford health insurance.. http://facts.kff.org/chart.aspx?ch=482
the second one shows the skyrocketing cost of health insurance and if you will notice, the employers are kicking in much more money every year to make it affordable for their employees. so the cost of insurance is cutting into the bottom line of employers, and even at that rate, it is a stretch to say that health insurance is affordable in this country. for you to assume that it is either your employer is paying the majority of it for you. in my line of work, i am paying for all of my premiums myself which puts a definite strain on my budget and i am a health care professional. i have other sources but i am too busy to add them while at work.
....completely ignored my last two posts... Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen.
Maybe this type of comment is made to be ignored? Flippancy usually doesn't require response.
What are you like 16 years old??? Quote my entire post, not just cherry pick. I didn't flip anything i simply said
"Your right, maybe i should be like you guys and blame everybody else and the systems. No one can afford this and no one can afford that. Its everybodys fault. Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen". You can't possibly be that stupid. Are you???
Actually, quoting your entire post makes it worse.
You seem to have these words that are going round and round in your head without understanding what posters here mean by them. Looking at this particular post, has anyone blamed everybody else and the system? Has anyone said it's everybody's fault? That everything should be a human right (I still think you don't understand what this means). All these are quite idiotic comments. No one is using the word 'right' as a cover for anything. You are the one rehashing that all the time.
The USA is the richest and, supposedly, the most advanced country in the world. Yet an american's life expectancy is lower than a cuban's. Other links have been provided giving official figures as to heathcare provision, etc. clearly proving the US is not up to par. Also, one does not need to experience universal healthcare to understand it. It's not like having to experience childbirth to fully understand the pain of it, or cut off your hand to know it will hurt. There are plenty of documents, etc. explaining how things work. People just need to want to educate themselves and not live with blinkers.
TUESDAY, July 21 (HealthDay News) -- Most people in the United States who try to buy an individual health insurance policy on their own never end up getting coverage, often because the premiums are just too expensive, according to a new study.
A report by the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation that supports independent research on health policy reform, found that roughly three of every four people who tried to buy a policy from the individual health insurance market in the past three years didn't get one. The main reason cited was premium cost. About 57 percent said it was very hard or even impossible to find coverage they could afford.
About 47 percent of the people surveyed said it was difficult or impossible to find a plan with the coverage they needed, and 36 percent reported being charged more or denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition or had the condition excluded from their coverage.
Called "Failure to Protect: Why the Individual Insurance Market Is Not a Viable Option for Most U.S. Families," the report compared the experiences of working-age adults with individual- and employer-based private health insurance.
It also found that people who bought health insurance in the individual market spend a lot more on premiums and deductibles than those with employer-based coverage.
The survey found that among U.S. adults with individual insurance, 64 percent spend $3,000 or more annually on premiums, whereas just 20 percent of those with employer-based insurance spend that much. Out-of-pocket expenses, including premiums, averaged $6,750 for people with individual market insurance, compared with $2,250 for those with employer-based plans.
"In our current system, millions of people without access to employer coverage have no affordable option for health insurance," said Karen Davis, president of the Commonwealth Fund. "To achieve a health-care system that works for all Americans, we need health-care reform that offers comprehensive, affordable health insurance to everyone regardless of their health status, premium subsidies to help families with low and moderate incomes afford health insurance, and requirements to ensure that no one is denied health insurance because of a health problem."
yeah, the system is fine, nothing to fix here..... :roll:
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
We are already on that path we are now supplying cell phones to people on welfar. That is a privlige, yet we are now treating that as a right.
Actually, if you REALLY informed yourself, you will see you are talking rubbish again. But I guess you already knew that.... WE are not supplying anything (ie no one is using YOUR money). Organisations have come together and are helping people and being socially responsible.
"LIFELINE/SAFELINK FACT SHEET
There is no "Obama phone" or other newly created federal program to provide free cell phones.[/b] As you may know, this is a myth that is now circulating on the Web via email and blog sites. It has been thoroughly debunked by independent groups. (See for example: FactCheck.org at http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/, which notes: "Low-income households have been eligible for discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it."
The federal "Lifeline" program was created during the Reagan Administration. Lifeline is a federal program created by the Reagan era Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in 1984...... ..... designed to ensure that quality telecommunications services are available to low-income customers at just, reasonable, and affordable rates.....
Thanks to SafeLink, Lifeline support is now available for wireless phones. Traditionally, the Lifeline program was only available as a discount on a consumer’s landline telephone bill. ..... SafeLink Wireless applies the Universal Service Fund subsidy to an allotment of free airtime minutes and TracFone provides the wireless handset at the company’s expense. ....The cell phone offers in-demand features: voicemail, text, three-way calling, call waiting, caller ID and access to 911. SafeLink phones are not paid for by taxpayers or the federal government. TracFone Wireless pays for the phones and also the cost of promoting its SafeLink program to make sure that eligible consumers know about the program."
And why do you hate people so much...? seriously, you present yourself as angry individual...
Your saying health care is a right and its not. I am simply asking where does it end, and no one can answer me because you keep disguising the word right with dependancy. And what have I made up. I have done nothing but express my opinion on the matter? And if you don't think people are lazy then i feel sorry for you. Why do you think I hate people??? because i don't think health care is a right???
I am not an angry individual, you think that because I don't agree with yoru point of view... Sorry, but unlike you I am not a pansy and I think it is time for people to start taking care of them selves. if you can't respect of understand that then quit replying to my posts.
I stand corrected...you're very happy, loving individual...
You've made up a slippery slope argument...I guess that's hard for you to understand...
and did you just call me a pansy...? that's some funny shit...I haven't heard that one since 7th grade...
I do find it amusing when you're reduced to name calling when you get frustrated and can't make a legitimate point...
for the record, I give respect to those who earn it...and I will keep replying to your angry, rambling posts...
Comments
There is no such thing as free health care anywhere in the world. You may think it is free, or maybe they tell you it is free, but somehow, you pay for it.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
or are those that got downsized just being lazy as well?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
cry baby? that is hilarious. tell me another one... :roll: now you are calling for ending all entitlement programs? you are being selfish in the fact that you are claiming that massive amounts of money from your check are going to pay for "those people"...will you define "those people" by the way? anyway, we live in a society and as a member of that society you must pay taxes for things and providing foodstamps is one of those things your taxes pay for. i didn't want to pay for these 2 damn wars, but guess what, i am paying my taxes and not bitching about where the money is going. it sounds to me that you are the one being the crybaby complaining about that small percentage of your check going ot help others.. what is your tax bracket? you should have gotten a tax CUT this year unless you are in the top 5% of the population income wise....and by the way, tell me about your charitable contributions. my band, my side job, donated over $15,000 of our income from 5 shows and collected another $8000 in donations for hurricane relief in the gulf in the month of august of 2005. i am not patting myself on the back, but i am just willing to bet that you have never done anything like that.
so let me get this straight. you pay for your healthcare yourself? you do not have health insurance and you pay cash for all of your meds and doctor's office visits? because that is what you are leading all of us to believe here. and i will find where you said you are providing care yourself. it is in at least 2 posts this week.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
As mentioned numerous times in numerous threads (and in this one too), one pays for this via taxes, obviously. When I say 'free', I mean you go to the doctor, you don't hand cash, you go to the hospital, you don't have to have your credit card swiped before anyone even looks at you. If you have a sick child, you don't have to worry whether your insurance will pay (assuming you are able to afford one). You can get yourself treated for anything, even an 'event' due to a pre-condition (which most insurances will not pay for) without have to worry about it. No co-payment, etc. Just walk in, get treated, walk out.
And apparently you don't like to give data so here's some regarding health care in our nation as you aren't familiar with it by your comments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Let's not get crazy here
I'm not sure that I would agree that Health Care is a right. That seems a bit odd. I mean, what gives anyone the right to deserve Health Care? I find very few things to be rights that must be granted.
That said, I think the Health Care debate is more about human decency. It is one area where a hard working individual can even have Health Insurance and end up bankrupt and without proper care. How is that possible? Lots of non-lazy people end up with catastrophic illnesses that lead them to a terrible place. Additionally, there are a lot of people out there that are looking for work...very hard...trying to find something. They shouldn't have to worry about health care.
Now, what do you do about the habitual welfare recipients and the generations of welfare recipients that they create? Do they get health care simply because they are alive? I don't think so, but you have to figure out a way for them to be part of the system if they meet certain criteria...just like getting unemployment.
I guess there needs to be a way for everyone to have reasonable access to health care...and if they don't do enough to meet the criteria, that's on them.
I never said i didn't like your answers, You were trying to argue that Health care is a right. And its not. The the reason of the rise of welfare and food stamps is because it is now an accepted life style. ANd people like you are advocating the lifestyle.
And please explain why my opinion is lazy, i have answered all your your questions and you have skipped over several posts of mine and completely ignored my last two posts on health care being a right that proved you wrong. Your right, maybe i should be like you guys and blame everybody else and the systems. No one can afford this and no one can afford that. Its everybodys fault. Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen. Thats what your posts read like.
Just my two cents
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Like everything, there is no easy solution other than strict regulation. But, our government has been so financially incompetent - which, in turn, has affected the individual states - they likely are unable to pay for the reorganization of an existing department or the creation of a new one.
Just my 2 pennies.
the only thing i wanted to do was get out and get a job and see some decent paychecks. it motivated me to get a job, not to be complacent.
its a buffer. a way for people not to starve to death when greedy capitalists decide to send their jobs overseas or hire an illegal.
what's even more fucked.....we have the resources in this country to employ everyone, pay them a living wage, and give them healthcare. there is more than plenty for all, especially here, in the center of empire. were profit not guiding policy (and public consent, trhough media) we could be living in a very
(what would seem to be) idealist state. we could provide for everyone and then some, were the fat cats not so greedy. think about wallmart, how they have more money than saudi arabia, or any number of companies.....all of this wealth is going to the top...the idea that we are in trouble is a scam. they are in trouble, they might not get that 5th house in the hamptons with that 1000 foot pool, that't the real crises.
and if people were to find out just how much they are being taken advantage of, that's the real crises of democracy.
wake up.
I would say that most of us have been arguing that healthcare is a Human Right (as stated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights), not a right. This is the difference that you do not seem to understand.
Maybe this type of comment is made to be ignored? Flippancy usually doesn't require response.
I would hate to think what would have happened to him and his family in the USA. Cardiomyopathy is largely herediatry, therefore considered as a pre-existing condition (even if you didn't know) and insurances will weasel their way out of paying for those.
I so agree with you there. If I were living in the US and did not have the system we have in place here, I would be without a husband and my daughter without a father. Or maybe he would still be alive but a vegetable or with no quality of life.
I think I want to put that in my signature.
Why do you keep insisting that healthcare is affordable despite the evidence that virtually no one in the United States can necessarily afford it? And please back up your response with cited data.
Why do you support a system (private health insurance) where some people pay more than their share and others take more than their share, but reject a such a system only when it would mean coverage for everyone (public health insurance)? How can you reject this system and support the unemployment system?
We are fortunate and proud to live in a nation that has the ability to care for the health of our ENTIRE population. As a rich and proud nation, why on earth would we not choose to care for our own people?
Why do you value your money over the health of others?
"Your right, maybe i should be like you guys and blame everybody else and the systems. No one can afford this and no one can afford that. Its everybodys fault. Everything should be a human right because life isn't fair and you never know when something unexpected is going to happen". You can't possibly be that stupid. Are you???
who's saying everything is a right...?
I think you're just making stuff up now....
And why do you hate people so much...? seriously, you present yourself as angry individual...
I am not an angry individual, you think that because I don't agree with yoru point of view... Sorry, but unlike you I am not a pansy and I think it is time for people to start taking care of them selves. if you can't respect of understand that then quit replying to my posts.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
here are a couple of slides showing how health care is not affordable for the average person in the united states. the first one shows that a vast mojority of the uninsured are either unemployed or "working poor" meaning they are working but below the poverty level, thus unable to afford health insurance..
http://facts.kff.org/chart.aspx?ch=482
the second one shows the skyrocketing cost of health insurance and if you will notice, the employers are kicking in much more money every year to make it affordable for their employees. so the cost of insurance is cutting into the bottom line of employers, and even at that rate, it is a stretch to say that health insurance is affordable in this country. for you to assume that it is either your employer is paying the majority of it for you. in my line of work, i am paying for all of my premiums myself which puts a definite strain on my budget and i am a health care professional. i have other sources but i am too busy to add them while at work.
http://facts.kff.org/chart.aspx?ch=491
i will reply to the rest of your post later. and by the way you never told us of your charity work...i'm still waiting for that..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Actually, quoting your entire post makes it worse.
You seem to have these words that are going round and round in your head without understanding what posters here mean by them. Looking at this particular post, has anyone blamed everybody else and the system? Has anyone said it's everybody's fault? That everything should be a human right (I still think you don't understand what this means). All these are quite idiotic comments. No one is using the word 'right' as a cover for anything. You are the one rehashing that all the time.
The USA is the richest and, supposedly, the most advanced country in the world. Yet an american's life expectancy is lower than a cuban's. Other links have been provided giving official figures as to heathcare provision, etc. clearly proving the US is not up to par. Also, one does not need to experience universal healthcare to understand it. It's not like having to experience childbirth to fully understand the pain of it, or cut off your hand to know it will hurt. There are plenty of documents, etc. explaining how things work. People just need to want to educate themselves and not live with blinkers.
Obstacles mount when employer-based coverage is not an option, survey finds
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/ ... 143&page=1
TUESDAY, July 21 (HealthDay News) -- Most people in the United States who try to buy an individual health insurance policy on their own never end up getting coverage, often because the premiums are just too expensive, according to a new study.
A report by the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation that supports independent research on health policy reform, found that roughly three of every four people who tried to buy a policy from the individual health insurance market in the past three years didn't get one. The main reason cited was premium cost. About 57 percent said it was very hard or even impossible to find coverage they could afford.
About 47 percent of the people surveyed said it was difficult or impossible to find a plan with the coverage they needed, and 36 percent reported being charged more or denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition or had the condition excluded from their coverage.
Called "Failure to Protect: Why the Individual Insurance Market Is Not a Viable Option for Most U.S. Families," the report compared the experiences of working-age adults with individual- and employer-based private health insurance.
It also found that people who bought health insurance in the individual market spend a lot more on premiums and deductibles than those with employer-based coverage.
The survey found that among U.S. adults with individual insurance, 64 percent spend $3,000 or more annually on premiums, whereas just 20 percent of those with employer-based insurance spend that much. Out-of-pocket expenses, including premiums, averaged $6,750 for people with individual market insurance, compared with $2,250 for those with employer-based plans.
"In our current system, millions of people without access to employer coverage have no affordable option for health insurance," said Karen Davis, president of the Commonwealth Fund. "To achieve a health-care system that works for all Americans, we need health-care reform that offers comprehensive, affordable health insurance to everyone regardless of their health status, premium subsidies to help families with low and moderate incomes afford health insurance, and requirements to ensure that no one is denied health insurance because of a health problem."
yeah, the system is fine, nothing to fix here..... :roll:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Actually, if you REALLY informed yourself, you will see you are talking rubbish again. But I guess you already knew that.... WE are not supplying anything (ie no one is using YOUR money). Organisations have come together and are helping people and being socially responsible.
"LIFELINE/SAFELINK FACT SHEET
There is no "Obama phone" or other newly created federal program to provide free cell phones.[/b] As you may know, this is a myth that is now circulating on the Web via email and blog sites. It has been thoroughly debunked by independent groups. (See for example: FactCheck.org at http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/, which notes: "Low-income households have been eligible for discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it."
The federal "Lifeline" program was created during the Reagan Administration. Lifeline is a federal program created by the Reagan era Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in 1984...... ..... designed to ensure that quality telecommunications services are available to low-income customers at just, reasonable, and affordable rates.....
Thanks to SafeLink, Lifeline support is now available for wireless phones. Traditionally, the Lifeline program was only available as a discount on a consumer’s landline telephone bill. ..... SafeLink Wireless applies the Universal Service Fund subsidy to an allotment of free airtime minutes and TracFone provides the wireless handset at the company’s expense. ....The cell phone offers in-demand features: voicemail, text, three-way calling, call waiting, caller ID and access to 911.
SafeLink phones are not paid for by taxpayers or the federal government. TracFone Wireless pays for the phones and also the cost of promoting its SafeLink program to make sure that eligible consumers know about the program."
https://www.safelinkwireless.com/Enroll ... efits.aspx
I stand corrected...you're very happy, loving individual...
You've made up a slippery slope argument...I guess that's hard for you to understand...
and did you just call me a pansy...?
I do find it amusing when you're reduced to name calling when you get frustrated and can't make a legitimate point...
for the record, I give respect to those who earn it...and I will keep replying to your angry, rambling posts...
have a nice day...