idiots at the g20 protests

Parksy · June 2010

$1 Billion.

My understanding is that is what WE (by WE... Canadians, Ontarians, Torontonians.) are paying for 'security'.

Got that out the way... now then...

To destroy or not destroy? that is the question. And the answer is simple.

People don't listen to protesters. They listen to the news. The news cover stories. People protesting is not a story. People burning police cars is.

Is it right? No. I do not condone it.

Is $1 Billion right? No. I do not condone it.

Bottom line is... people are pissed. And when people are pissed, they want to be heard or seen.

Now I want to comment on what someone I think Lukin something or other said regarding people who are not from Toronto coming to Toronto and destroying businesses that Torontonians maintain....

Here's a thought...... 1000's of police... A billion dollars.

You know who they care about? The foreign dignitaries within the G20 security zone. If these people who are so upset at the protesters for breaking their windows want to REALLY be angry at someone.... how about the government that spent a billion dollars to protect a a few people for a weekend...

This almost unbelievable flop is embarrassing.

And it's nowhere near over.

When all is said and done... when Obama and the gang are gone.... what will have to show? Nothing. Except a $1B bill and a LOT of pissed off citizens.

Oh, and let's forget the people who are being oppressed and assaulted by these Police for no apparent reason.

It's shameful to know that we spent $1B to toss our Charter of Rights and Freedoms out the window just for the sake of the very few.

Violent protesting should not be the answer... but what is the answer? That's an actual question too... feel free to provide suggestions. And no, I'm not convinced peaceful protests work.

Disclaimer: I do not condone the destruction of property nor do I hate Police. This is merely an observation. I can only assume that the aforementioned issues are what could drive people to destroy things.

Godfather. · June 2010

Parksy wrote:

$1 Billion.

My understanding is that is what WE (by WE... Canadians, Ontarians, Torontonians.) are paying for 'security'.

Got that out the way... now then...

To destroy or not destroy? that is the question. And the answer is simple.

People don't listen to protesters. They listen to the news. The news cover stories. People protesting is not a story. People burning police cars is.

Is it right? No. I do not condone it.

Is $1 Billion right? No. I do not condone it.

Bottom line is... people are pissed. And when people are pissed, they want to be heard or seen.

Now I want to comment on what someone I think Lukin something or other said regarding people who are not from Toronto coming to Toronto and destroying businesses that Torontonians maintain....

Here's a thought...... 1000's of police... A billion dollars.

You know who they care about? The foreign dignitaries within the G20 security zone. If these people who are so upset at the protesters for breaking their windows want to REALLY be angry at someone.... how about the government that spent a billion dollars to protect a a few people for a weekend...

This almost unbelievable flop is embarrassing.

And it's nowhere near over.

When all is said and done... when Obama and the gang are gone.... what will have to show? Nothing. Except a $1B bill and a LOT of pissed off citizens.

Oh, and let's forget the people who are being oppressed and assaulted by these Police for no apparent reason.

It's shameful to know that we spent $1B to toss our Charter of Rights and Freedoms out the window just for the sake of the very few.

Violent protesting should not be the answer... but what is the answer? That's an actual question too... feel free to provide suggestions. And no, I'm not convinced peaceful protests work.

Disclaimer: I do not condone the destruction of property nor do I hate Police. This is merely an observation. I can only assume that the aforementioned issues are what could drive people to destroy things.

I was reading about this stuff on FOXNEWS and I was wondering if the violent protesters had any influence or will have any influence on the bottom line of their decisions in the summit meeting, it sounds bad but but as you said people are pissed and nobody listens until something happens to really get their attention,

quote from AL Capone: "you can get further with a kind word and a gun then you can with just a kind word"

I wonder how true that is in the real world.

Godfather.

Parksy · June 2010

Hi Folks,

Just an update, they're (The Police) now pulling people from the streets and arresting them. For no apparent reason other than being on the street.

If only we had a document that was recognized by law that informed us of our basic rights as citizens... some sort of .... CHARTER.... yeah, a charter that lays down basic rights for citizens.

Perhaps it could suggest that we would be allowed to peacefully assemble... and be able to move about of our own free will so long as we weren't harming anyone...

HEY!!!! It could also say... and I know this is a long shot... but it could also say that police are not allowed to search us without probable cause.

I think I'm on to something here....

Parksy · June 2010

...........

DAMN!

Someone else thought of this already. 28 years ago.

Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
A: freedom of conscience and religion,
B: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication,
C: freedom of peaceful assembly,

freedom of association.

Section 7

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Section 8

Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

Section 9

Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.

something got REALLLLLLY fucked up in Toronto today.

catefrances · June 2010

well.. this is what happens when idiots decide violence is the answer. the police see everyone as a potential violent protestor.

lukin2006 · June 2010

ACCBootlegGoddess wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

First of all, what do people expect, this seems to happen at every G8/G20 summit. However Toronto has no right to whine, they know this shit happens and could very easily said we don't want you here and if you insist on being here you'll get no help from us. But they want the money that all the people brought to the city these past few days.

Now as a Canadian citizen I am appalled at the cost of these 2 summits, that 1-2 billion could go along way toward solving some health care problems or helping Joe somebody who lost his job at auto plant or anywhere for that matter, but no, we got to spend billions on some dumb summit for a bunch of elite's politicians just so they can devise a way to spend more of my and other Canadians tax $$$$$ in Africa and other so called developing countries (who never seem to develop). As far as I'm concerned it's about time our tax $$$ get spent here to help Canadians first.

Toronto has no right to whine??? None of those assholes who looted and vandalized my city were FROM my city!! We have protests here ALL THE TIME and NONE end up like this...NONE!
How can we say we don't want you here when a) We have something called the right to free speech and assembly and b) we don't know who these assholes engaging in black bloc tactics are until it HAPPENS. I'm not about limiting the movement of law abiding citizens whether they are Canadian Citizens or another countries citizens because something COULD happen.
There is footage of people smashing windows and cops just WATCHING them!! They could have arrested them and they didn't! Perhaps they were waiting for backup...I dunno.
Those people did NOT get help from Torontonians. In fact it was in fact the peaceful protesters who were going to those businesses and apologizing to the owners for the damage, telling them that those people were NOT part of their organization and their actions were NOT condoned by the other 99% of people on the street.

I agree with your second paragraph though. Despite what happened yesterday I totally think $1-2 billion was VERY excessive! The summit didn't need that small, ugly fake lake either!
I'm so glad this is almost over and these assholes can get the fuck out of my city! I want my city back. I want to go out at lunch on a workday and not have cops every 10 feet!!

Well first of all when I say whine, I mean the mayor, police chief and head of the opp. Sorry your offended, but it seems every time these meetings take place the violence happens, and I will stand by what I said, the mayor simply could have said *we don't want the summit here", but lets face it he wanted the business that came to town. I'd love to know how much revenue this summit generated Toronto, millions I bet, but cost all of Canada 1-2b. Like I said sorry your offended but you know as well as I do that these summits bring vandals and violence. But knowing Harper and since he has no Toronto area MP's he put this summit there on purpose so all the liberal and NDP mp's will be barraged with emails and calls, hehehehe.

Parksy · June 2010

catefrances wrote:

well.. this is what happens when idiots decide violence is the answer. the police see everyone as a potential violent protestor.

hmmm....

"everyone" ...

where have I seen that word before???

OH WAIT!

It's the word that begins EVERY section in the Charter.

Sorry, but a handful of people breaking windows does not give police justification to arrest whomever they want.

catefrances · June 2010

Parksy wrote:

catefrances wrote:

well.. this is what happens when idiots decide violence is the answer. the police see everyone as a potential violent protestor.

hmmm....

"everyone" ...

where have I seen that word before???

OH WAIT!

It's the word that begins EVERY section in the Charter.

Sorry, but a handful of people breaking windows does not give police to arrest whomever they want.

i didnt say it did.

Parksy · June 2010

ok good

ya had me worried there.

catefrances · June 2010

Parksy wrote:

ok good ya had me worried there.

i just think everyone(yep theres that word again) needs to take responsibility for their actions. sure protest, i do it, but totally disassociate yourself from violent factions. make sure they know it is totally unacceptable for them to bring the polices wrath down upon the people. violent protestors need to marginalised. they do nothing whatsoever for whatever cause theyre protesting against. and they give peaceful proetsors a bad name.

Parksy · June 2010

catefrances wrote:

Parksy wrote:

ok good ya had me worried there.

i just think everyone(yep theres that word again) needs to take responsibility for their actions. sure protest, i do it, but totally disassociate yourself from violent factions. make sure they know it is totally unacceptable for them to bring the polices wrath down upon the people. violent protestors need to marginalised. they do nothing whatsoever for whatever cause theyre protesting against. and they give peaceful proetsors a bad name.

its interesting and this isnt saying youre incorrect, in fact i think what you're saying is VERY correct..

however.. you mention police "wrath". protestors violent or peaceful are all out there for a reason.. most of which stems from the behaviour, actions, or inactions of government.

Police are government.

And police should be held more accountable for their actions than the regular person based on the power they are given.

And when the police do what they are currently doing.... it just seems to me that it would add fuel to the fire in terms of violent protestors.

In fact... it may be what turns a peaceful protestor into a violent protestor.

Basically what's happening RIGHT NOW.. is the police are telling people it's not okay to be a peaceful protestor.

I hope it doesn't get uglier than it is.... but I have a bad feeling.

It's like an action - reaction thing. A guy goes to protest with friends peacefully... sees his friend who was doing nothing wrong get punched by a policeman. This upsets the peaceful protestor. I'm not saying it will or does happen.. but it makes sense to me that the action of the cop is what spurs on a protestor to become violent.

catefrances · June 2010

Parksy wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Parksy wrote:

ok good ya had me worried there.

i just think everyone(yep theres that word again) needs to take responsibility for their actions. sure protest, i do it, but totally disassociate yourself from violent factions. make sure they know it is totally unacceptable for them to bring the polices wrath down upon the people. violent protestors need to marginalised. they do nothing whatsoever for whatever cause theyre protesting against. and they give peaceful proetsors a bad name.

its interesting and this isnt saying youre incorrect, in fact i think what you're saying is VERY correct..

however.. you mention police "wrath". protestors violent or peaceful are all out there for a reason.. most of which stems from the behaviour, actions, or inactions of government.

Police are government.

And police should be held more accountable for their actions than the regular person based on the power they are given.

And when the police do what they are currently doing.... it just seems to me that it would add fuel to the fire in terms of violent protestors.

In fact... it may be what turns a peaceful protestor into a violent protestor.

Basically what's happening RIGHT NOW.. is the police are telling people it's not okay to be a peaceful protestor.

I hope it doesn't get uglier than it is.... but I have a bad feeling.

It's like an action - reaction thing. A guy goes to protest with friends peacefully... sees his friend who was doing nothing wrong get punched by a policeman. This upsets the peaceful protestor. I'm not saying it will or does happen.. but it makes sense to me that the action of the cop is what spurs on a protestor to become violent.

you know as well as i do that violent protestors know theyll clash with the police and they know their actions will antagonise them. now im not excusing police brutality. and its wrong for the police to target legitimate peaceful protestors, but should the violence be allowed to continue unabated?? should the police stand by and do nothing while property is destroyed?? whats the limit? how much of the law should they be allowed to break?? the violent protestors know the outcome of their actions.

i doubt a truly peaceful protestor would turn violent. while im not saying they should stand back and allow their fellow protestor to be beaten up by the police, but theres better ways to show your abhorrence at such treatment.

Parksy · June 2010

well here's a question...

how do you stop violent protestors?

and I think the truth is... you can't. You take a city the size of Toronto.. if a person wants to throw a molotov cocktail... they will.

This is how it looks to me:

We pay $1B. Riots still break out. Violent protestors... or "thugs" still damage property. And the answer to that... our $1B answer was to arrest people at random. Media, passerbys, peaceful protestors... all arrested. I just don't get it.

catefrances · June 2010

Parksy wrote:

well here's a question...

how do you stop violent protestors?

and I think the truth is... you can't. You take a city the size of Toronto.. if a person wants to throw a molotov cocktail... they will.

This is how it looks to me:

We pay $1B. Riots still break out. Violent protestors... or "thugs" still damage property. And the answer to that... our $1B answer was to arrest people at random. Media, passerbys, peaceful protestors... all arrested. I just don't get it.

well im afraid youve got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. please do not take this as me condoning the arresting of innocents, but the bad guys here are the violent protestors who bring this upon everyone. give the police no reason to react and imo they wont. eventually behaviour will change and peaceful protestors will be able to protest. peacefully... and unacccosted.

in answer to your question about violent protesters and how do we stop them. we marginalise them to such an extent that eventually theyll realise how unacceptable their behaviour is and what a waste of fucking time it is. seriously they cant not know their actions contibute nothing so why continue??

flywallyfly · June 2010

Come on people, pull ur heads outta ur asses. Most of the violent protesters are working for the government to do exactly what you guys are talking about -- it makes it easy for them to keep peaceful protesters away "in the name of safety" and it gives them an excuse to bust up the peaceful protesters as well as a deterent. There are numerous examples and confessions by governments of doing this, it's not a conspiracy theory but fact.

ACCBootlegGoddess · June 2010

lukin2006 wrote:

ACCBootlegGoddess wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

First of all, what do people expect, this seems to happen at every G8/G20 summit. However Toronto has no right to whine, they know this shit happens and could very easily said we don't want you here and if you insist on being here you'll get no help from us. But they want the money that all the people brought to the city these past few days.

Now as a Canadian citizen I am appalled at the cost of these 2 summits, that 1-2 billion could go along way toward solving some health care problems or helping Joe somebody who lost his job at auto plant or anywhere for that matter, but no, we got to spend billions on some dumb summit for a bunch of elite's politicians just so they can devise a way to spend more of my and other Canadians tax $$$$$ in Africa and other so called developing countries (who never seem to develop). As far as I'm concerned it's about time our tax $$$ get spent here to help Canadians first.

Toronto has no right to whine??? None of those assholes who looted and vandalized my city were FROM my city!! We have protests here ALL THE TIME and NONE end up like this...NONE!
How can we say we don't want you here when a) We have something called the right to free speech and assembly and b) we don't know who these assholes engaging in black bloc tactics are until it HAPPENS. I'm not about limiting the movement of law abiding citizens whether they are Canadian Citizens or another countries citizens because something COULD happen.
There is footage of people smashing windows and cops just WATCHING them!! They could have arrested them and they didn't! Perhaps they were waiting for backup...I dunno.
Those people did NOT get help from Torontonians. In fact it was in fact the peaceful protesters who were going to those businesses and apologizing to the owners for the damage, telling them that those people were NOT part of their organization and their actions were NOT condoned by the other 99% of people on the street.

I agree with your second paragraph though. Despite what happened yesterday I totally think $1-2 billion was VERY excessive! The summit didn't need that small, ugly fake lake either!
I'm so glad this is almost over and these assholes can get the fuck out of my city! I want my city back. I want to go out at lunch on a workday and not have cops every 10 feet!!

Well first of all when I say whine, I mean the mayor, police chief and head of the opp. Sorry your offended, but it seems every time these meetings take place the violence happens, and I will stand by what I said, the mayor simply could have said *we don't want the summit here", but lets face it he wanted the business that came to town. I'd love to know how much revenue this summit generated Toronto, millions I bet, but cost all of Canada 1-2b. Like I said sorry your offended but you know as well as I do that these summits bring vandals and violence. But knowing Harper and since he has no Toronto area MP's he put this summit there on purpose so all the liberal and NDP mp's will be barraged with emails and calls, hehehehe.

I wasn't offended. I just took your comments to be about the protesters (toronto saying they aren't welcome) rather than the actual Summit itself, and in that context I thought they were unfair. I apologize for that...didn't realize you were talking about holding the summit here in the first place.
Harper is a douchebag and doesn't give a SHIT about Toronto. His bread and butter is Alberta plus well to do suburban area's. I guess he figured he was eventually gonna lose a non confidence once the Liberals have re-filled their coffers and grown a set (plus gained a little more approval) so he figures get their constituents pissed at them....get people pissed in general so he can get his tougher sentencing bills through and stuff.
I HATE Harper!
He totally should have held this elsewhere. Rent a fuckin YACHT and bring it into the middle of Lake Ontario...Keep it all up in Huntsville or something! Smaller area...easier to police.
MY city now has a bad rep cause of the violence yesterday and tonight after what those fuckin cops did at Spadina and Queen!!! As someone who was born and raised in this amazing city it makes me angry and sad.

Where the fuck was Mayor Miller and Chief Bill Blair today!?!?! COWARDS!!!!!

haffajappa · June 2010

Rex Murphy had a good point when he said the Black Block are Stephen Harper's best friends right now

Godfather. · June 2010

Parksy wrote:

...........

DAMN!

Someone else thought of this already. 28 years ago.

Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
A: freedom of conscience and religion,
B: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication,
C: freedom of peaceful assembly,
freedom of association.

Section 7

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Section 8

Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

Section 9

Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.

something got REALLLLLLY fucked up in Toronto today.

C: freedom of peaceful assembly,

freedom of association.
with all the violence that has happened it sounds like those 2 rights have been abused by the protesters already
and maybe that's the cops angel for the arrests made on the streets you where talking about ? not saying it's a good thing just wondering.

Godfather.

Kel Varnsen · June 2010

lukin2006 wrote:

Now as a Canadian citizen I am appalled at the cost of these 2 summits, that 1-2 billion could go along way toward solving some health care problems or helping Joe somebody who lost his job at auto plant or anywhere for that matter, but no, we got to spend billions on some dumb summit for a bunch of elite's politicians just so they can devise a way to spend more of my and other Canadians tax $$$$$ in Africa and other so called developing countries (who never seem to develop). As far as I'm concerned it's about time our tax $$$ get spent here to help Canadians first.

The annoying thing about the violent protest and the property damage is that all it does is justify the 1 billion in security spending. Now the government can say they needed to spend all that cash to keep the entire city from being trashed.

I also find it funny that legitimate protestors complain about the rioters and how their message doesn't get heard because of it. Well if you want your message to be heard, why not make an effort to keep the violent protestors away? I mean how good would a clip look of a real protestor trying to stop a rioter from throwing a brick or something. That would be all over the news.

lukin2006 · June 2010

Kel Varnsen wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Now as a Canadian citizen I am appalled at the cost of these 2 summits, that 1-2 billion could go along way toward solving some health care problems or helping Joe somebody who lost his job at auto plant or anywhere for that matter, but no, we got to spend billions on some dumb summit for a bunch of elite's politicians just so they can devise a way to spend more of my and other Canadians tax $$$$$ in Africa and other so called developing countries (who never seem to develop). As far as I'm concerned it's about time our tax $$$ get spent here to help Canadians first.

The annoying thing about the violent protest and the property damage is that all it does is justify the 1 billion in security spending. Now the government can say they needed to spend all that cash to keep the entire city from being trashed.

I also find it funny that legitimate protestors complain about the rioters and how their message doesn't get heard because of it. Well if you want your message to be heard, why not make an effort to keep the violent protestors away? I mean how good would a clip look of a real protestor trying to stop a rioter from throwing a brick or something. That would be all over the news.

At last years summit in Pittsburgh it cost 20 million, they can not justify 1-2 billion. It does seem that wasting a billion at a time by governments in this country is becoming way to easy for them.

In the future they could hold these things at military bases and plenty of security to boot.

As for the protesters, they need to get a life.

idiots at the g20 protests

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