i just think everyone(yep theres that word again) needs to take responsibility for their actions. sure protest, i do it, but totally disassociate yourself from violent factions. make sure they know it is totally unacceptable for them to bring the polices wrath down upon the people. violent protestors need to marginalised. they do nothing whatsoever for whatever cause theyre protesting against. and they give peaceful proetsors a bad name.
its interesting and this isnt saying youre incorrect, in fact i think what you're saying is VERY correct..
however.. you mention police "wrath". protestors violent or peaceful are all out there for a reason.. most of which stems from the behaviour, actions, or inactions of government.
Police are government.
And police should be held more accountable for their actions than the regular person based on the power they are given.
And when the police do what they are currently doing.... it just seems to me that it would add fuel to the fire in terms of violent protestors.
In fact... it may be what turns a peaceful protestor into a violent protestor.
Basically what's happening RIGHT NOW.. is the police are telling people it's not okay to be a peaceful protestor.
I hope it doesn't get uglier than it is.... but I have a bad feeling.
It's like an action - reaction thing. A guy goes to protest with friends peacefully... sees his friend who was doing nothing wrong get punched by a policeman. This upsets the peaceful protestor. I'm not saying it will or does happen.. but it makes sense to me that the action of the cop is what spurs on a protestor to become violent.
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i just think everyone(yep theres that word again) needs to take responsibility for their actions. sure protest, i do it, but totally disassociate yourself from violent factions. make sure they know it is totally unacceptable for them to bring the polices wrath down upon the people. violent protestors need to marginalised. they do nothing whatsoever for whatever cause theyre protesting against. and they give peaceful proetsors a bad name.
its interesting and this isnt saying youre incorrect, in fact i think what you're saying is VERY correct..
however.. you mention police "wrath". protestors violent or peaceful are all out there for a reason.. most of which stems from the behaviour, actions, or inactions of government.
Police are government.
And police should be held more accountable for their actions than the regular person based on the power they are given.
And when the police do what they are currently doing.... it just seems to me that it would add fuel to the fire in terms of violent protestors.
In fact... it may be what turns a peaceful protestor into a violent protestor.
Basically what's happening RIGHT NOW.. is the police are telling people it's not okay to be a peaceful protestor.
I hope it doesn't get uglier than it is.... but I have a bad feeling.
It's like an action - reaction thing. A guy goes to protest with friends peacefully... sees his friend who was doing nothing wrong get punched by a policeman. This upsets the peaceful protestor. I'm not saying it will or does happen.. but it makes sense to me that the action of the cop is what spurs on a protestor to become violent.
you know as well as i do that violent protestors know theyll clash with the police and they know their actions will antagonise them. now im not excusing police brutality. and its wrong for the police to target legitimate peaceful protestors, but should the violence be allowed to continue unabated?? should the police stand by and do nothing while property is destroyed?? whats the limit? how much of the law should they be allowed to break?? the violent protestors know the outcome of their actions.
i doubt a truly peaceful protestor would turn violent. while im not saying they should stand back and allow their fellow protestor to be beaten up by the police, but theres better ways to show your abhorrence at such treatment.
hear my name
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and I think the truth is... you can't. You take a city the size of Toronto.. if a person wants to throw a molotov cocktail... they will.
This is how it looks to me:
We pay $1B. Riots still break out. Violent protestors... or "thugs" still damage property. And the answer to that... our $1B answer was to arrest people at random. Media, passerbys, peaceful protestors... all arrested. I just don't get it.
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and I think the truth is... you can't. You take a city the size of Toronto.. if a person wants to throw a molotov cocktail... they will.
This is how it looks to me:
We pay $1B. Riots still break out. Violent protestors... or "thugs" still damage property. And the answer to that... our $1B answer was to arrest people at random. Media, passerbys, peaceful protestors... all arrested. I just don't get it.
well im afraid youve got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. please do not take this as me condoning the arresting of innocents, but the bad guys here are the violent protestors who bring this upon everyone. give the police no reason to react and imo they wont. eventually behaviour will change and peaceful protestors will be able to protest. peacefully... and unacccosted.
in answer to your question about violent protesters and how do we stop them. we marginalise them to such an extent that eventually theyll realise how unacceptable their behaviour is and what a waste of fucking time it is. seriously they cant not know their actions contibute nothing so why continue??
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Come on people, pull ur heads outta ur asses. Most of the violent protesters are working for the government to do exactly what you guys are talking about -- it makes it easy for them to keep peaceful protesters away "in the name of safety" and it gives them an excuse to bust up the peaceful protesters as well as a deterent. There are numerous examples and confessions by governments of doing this, it's not a conspiracy theory but fact.
First of all, what do people expect, this seems to happen at every G8/G20 summit. However Toronto has no right to whine, they know this shit happens and could very easily said we don't want you here and if you insist on being here you'll get no help from us. But they want the money that all the people brought to the city these past few days.
Now as a Canadian citizen I am appalled at the cost of these 2 summits, that 1-2 billion could go along way toward solving some health care problems or helping Joe somebody who lost his job at auto plant or anywhere for that matter, but no, we got to spend billions on some dumb summit for a bunch of elite's politicians just so they can devise a way to spend more of my and other Canadians tax $$$$$ in Africa and other so called developing countries (who never seem to develop). As far as I'm concerned it's about time our tax $$$ get spent here to help Canadians first.
Toronto has no right to whine??? None of those assholes who looted and vandalized my city were FROM my city!! We have protests here ALL THE TIME and NONE end up like this...NONE!
How can we say we don't want you here when a) We have something called the right to free speech and assembly and b) we don't know who these assholes engaging in black bloc tactics are until it HAPPENS. I'm not about limiting the movement of law abiding citizens whether they are Canadian Citizens or another countries citizens because something COULD happen.
There is footage of people smashing windows and cops just WATCHING them!! They could have arrested them and they didn't! Perhaps they were waiting for backup...I dunno.
Those people did NOT get help from Torontonians. In fact it was in fact the peaceful protesters who were going to those businesses and apologizing to the owners for the damage, telling them that those people were NOT part of their organization and their actions were NOT condoned by the other 99% of people on the street.
I agree with your second paragraph though. Despite what happened yesterday I totally think $1-2 billion was VERY excessive! The summit didn't need that small, ugly fake lake either!
I'm so glad this is almost over and these assholes can get the fuck out of my city! I want my city back. I want to go out at lunch on a workday and not have cops every 10 feet!!
Well first of all when I say whine, I mean the mayor, police chief and head of the opp. Sorry your offended, but it seems every time these meetings take place the violence happens, and I will stand by what I said, the mayor simply could have said *we don't want the summit here", but lets face it he wanted the business that came to town. I'd love to know how much revenue this summit generated Toronto, millions I bet, but cost all of Canada 1-2b. Like I said sorry your offended but you know as well as I do that these summits bring vandals and violence. But knowing Harper and since he has no Toronto area MP's he put this summit there on purpose so all the liberal and NDP mp's will be barraged with emails and calls, hehehehe.
I wasn't offended. I just took your comments to be about the protesters (toronto saying they aren't welcome) rather than the actual Summit itself, and in that context I thought they were unfair. I apologize for that...didn't realize you were talking about holding the summit here in the first place.
Harper is a douchebag and doesn't give a SHIT about Toronto. His bread and butter is Alberta plus well to do suburban area's. I guess he figured he was eventually gonna lose a non confidence once the Liberals have re-filled their coffers and grown a set (plus gained a little more approval) so he figures get their constituents pissed at them....get people pissed in general so he can get his tougher sentencing bills through and stuff.
I HATE Harper!
He totally should have held this elsewhere. Rent a fuckin YACHT and bring it into the middle of Lake Ontario...Keep it all up in Huntsville or something! Smaller area...easier to police.
MY city now has a bad rep cause of the violence yesterday and tonight after what those fuckin cops did at Spadina and Queen!!! As someone who was born and raised in this amazing city it makes me angry and sad.
Where the fuck was Mayor Miller and Chief Bill Blair today!?!?! COWARDS!!!!!
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
Someone else thought of this already. 28 years ago.
Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
A: freedom of conscience and religion,
B: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication,
C: freedom of peaceful assembly, freedom of association.
Section 7
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
Section 8
Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
Section 9
Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.
something got REALLLLLLY fucked up in Toronto today.
C: freedom of peaceful assembly, freedom of association.
with all the violence that has happened it sounds like those 2 rights have been abused by the protesters already
and maybe that's the cops angel for the arrests made on the streets you where talking about ? not saying it's a good thing just wondering.
Now as a Canadian citizen I am appalled at the cost of these 2 summits, that 1-2 billion could go along way toward solving some health care problems or helping Joe somebody who lost his job at auto plant or anywhere for that matter, but no, we got to spend billions on some dumb summit for a bunch of elite's politicians just so they can devise a way to spend more of my and other Canadians tax $$$$$ in Africa and other so called developing countries (who never seem to develop). As far as I'm concerned it's about time our tax $$$ get spent here to help Canadians first.
The annoying thing about the violent protest and the property damage is that all it does is justify the 1 billion in security spending. Now the government can say they needed to spend all that cash to keep the entire city from being trashed.
I also find it funny that legitimate protestors complain about the rioters and how their message doesn't get heard because of it. Well if you want your message to be heard, why not make an effort to keep the violent protestors away? I mean how good would a clip look of a real protestor trying to stop a rioter from throwing a brick or something. That would be all over the news.
Now as a Canadian citizen I am appalled at the cost of these 2 summits, that 1-2 billion could go along way toward solving some health care problems or helping Joe somebody who lost his job at auto plant or anywhere for that matter, but no, we got to spend billions on some dumb summit for a bunch of elite's politicians just so they can devise a way to spend more of my and other Canadians tax $$$$$ in Africa and other so called developing countries (who never seem to develop). As far as I'm concerned it's about time our tax $$$ get spent here to help Canadians first.
The annoying thing about the violent protest and the property damage is that all it does is justify the 1 billion in security spending. Now the government can say they needed to spend all that cash to keep the entire city from being trashed.
I also find it funny that legitimate protestors complain about the rioters and how their message doesn't get heard because of it. Well if you want your message to be heard, why not make an effort to keep the violent protestors away? I mean how good would a clip look of a real protestor trying to stop a rioter from throwing a brick or something. That would be all over the news.
At last years summit in Pittsburgh it cost 20 million, they can not justify 1-2 billion. It does seem that wasting a billion at a time by governments in this country is becoming way to easy for them.
In the future they could hold these things at military bases and plenty of security to boot.
As for the protesters, they need to get a life.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Now as a Canadian citizen I am appalled at the cost of these 2 summits, that 1-2 billion could go along way toward solving some health care problems or helping Joe somebody who lost his job at auto plant or anywhere for that matter, but no, we got to spend billions on some dumb summit for a bunch of elite's politicians just so they can devise a way to spend more of my and other Canadians tax $$$$$ in Africa and other so called developing countries (who never seem to develop). As far as I'm concerned it's about time our tax $$$ get spent here to help Canadians first.
The annoying thing about the violent protest and the property damage is that all it does is justify the 1 billion in security spending. Now the government can say they needed to spend all that cash to keep the entire city from being trashed.
I also find it funny that legitimate protestors complain about the rioters and how their message doesn't get heard because of it. Well if you want your message to be heard, why not make an effort to keep the violent protestors away? I mean how good would a clip look of a real protestor trying to stop a rioter from throwing a brick or something. That would be all over the news.
There was a clip on the national of a protester telling people they couldn't march with them while they were wearing masks. As for keeping the violent protesters away... I'm not sure how one would do that.
I read in the paper today that Harper was being mr. i-told-you-so regarding the budget and the violence.
Come on people, pull ur heads outta ur asses. Most of the violent protesters are working for the government to do exactly what you guys are talking about -- it makes it easy for them to keep peaceful protesters away "in the name of safety" and it gives them an excuse to bust up the peaceful protesters as well as a deterent. There are numerous examples and confessions by governments of doing this, it's not a conspiracy theory but fact.
AMEN. Seriously, how hard would it be to pull this off? I've heard of this being done before too.
C: freedom of peaceful assembly, freedom of association.
with all the violence that has happened it sounds like those 2 rights have been abused by the protesters already
and maybe that's the cops angel for the arrests made on the streets you where talking about ? not saying it's a good thing just wondering.
Godfather.
No not at all. See people are associating what this "black bloc" did as protesting.. which it wasn't. What they did falls under the Criminal Code under Mischief over $5000 and Assault. These are crimes. So the Police should be prioritizing themselves with arresting these Criminals and preventing CRIMES. Not Protests.
Now just because people commit some crimes... doesn't give justification to strip protestors of their Charter Rights.
You have to understand in Canada... and I can only assume in the U.S. many criminals.. mostly non-violent criminals have been let off the hook due to Police abusing the Charter.... IE: conducting wrongful searches and such.
the Charter is in place to protect the rights of all citizens. You cannot look at it as... "well, people committing crimes, therefore we're tightening up your rights as peaceful citizens."
That's not democracy. That's not Canada.
If anything, a Crime has NOW been committed by the Police. A very serious crime. And a very serious abuse of power. What will be interesting now is to see if anyone will pay for it. They should.
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Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
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Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
I always enjoy when people say there's a proper way to protest.. whether through violence, destruction, peaceful and civil or whatever methods, there is no "right way" to protest.
Constitutional rights are useful up to a point, but they do not serve to guarantee much more than what could be called the bourgeois conception of freedom. According to the bourgeois conception, a "free" man is essentially an element of a social machine and has only a certain set of prescribed and delimited freedoms;...freedoms that are designed to serve the needs of the social machine more than those of the individual. - Theodore Kaczynski
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Toronto has no right to whine??? None of those assholes who looted and vandalized my city were FROM my city!! We have protests here ALL THE TIME and NONE end up like this...NONE!
How can we say we don't want you here when a) We have something called the right to free speech and assembly and b) we don't know who these assholes engaging in black bloc tactics are until it HAPPENS. I'm not about limiting the movement of law abiding citizens whether they are Canadian Citizens or another countries citizens because something COULD happen.
There is footage of people smashing windows and cops just WATCHING them!! They could have arrested them and they didn't! Perhaps they were waiting for backup...I dunno.
Those people did NOT get help from Torontonians. In fact it was in fact the peaceful protesters who were going to those businesses and apologizing to the owners for the damage, telling them that those people were NOT part of their organization and their actions were NOT condoned by the other 99% of people on the street.
I agree with your second paragraph though. Despite what happened yesterday I totally think $1-2 billion was VERY excessive! The summit didn't need that small, ugly fake lake either!
I'm so glad this is almost over and these assholes can get the fuck out of my city! I want my city back. I want to go out at lunch on a workday and not have cops every 10 feet!!
Well first of all when I say whine, I mean the mayor, police chief and head of the opp. Sorry your offended, but it seems every time these meetings take place the violence happens, and I will stand by what I said, the mayor simply could have said *we don't want the summit here", but lets face it he wanted the business that came to town. I'd love to know how much revenue this summit generated Toronto, millions I bet, but cost all of Canada 1-2b. Like I said sorry your offended but you know as well as I do that these summits bring vandals and violence. But knowing Harper and since he has no Toronto area MP's he put this summit there on purpose so all the liberal and NDP mp's will be barraged with emails and calls, hehehehe.
I wasn't offended. I just took your comments to be about the protesters (toronto saying they aren't welcome) rather than the actual Summit itself, and in that context I thought they were unfair. I apologize for that...didn't realize you were talking about holding the summit here in the first place.
Harper is a douchebag and doesn't give a SHIT about Toronto. His bread and butter is Alberta plus well to do suburban area's. I guess he figured he was eventually gonna lose a non confidence once the Liberals have re-filled their coffers and grown a set (plus gained a little more approval) so he figures get their constituents pissed at them....get people pissed in general so he can get his tougher sentencing bills through and stuff.
I HATE Harper!
He totally should have held this elsewhere. Rent a fuckin YACHT and bring it into the middle of Lake Ontario...Keep it all up in Huntsville or something! Smaller area...easier to police.
MY city now has a bad rep cause of the violence yesterday and tonight after what those fuckin cops did at Spadina and Queen!!! As someone who was born and raised in this amazing city it makes me angry and sad.
Where the fuck was Mayor Miller and Chief Bill Blair today!?!?! COWARDS!!!!!
That's the problem with these summits, a few knuckle head protesters make the rest look bad. Harper knew what he was doing, none of his mp's will be fielding calls this week from pissed off constituents, he has no mps elected in Toronto.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Is it really a surprise when assholes end up doing what they do at these protests? Do the "peaceful" people actually think the leaders are in a room watching their demonstration and planning their agenda around it?
I would have rather seen the fence get breached and all hell break loose then what I witnessed on Saturday.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
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Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
there are larger issues at play here ... beyond the usual trouble makers - this potential inquiry into police actions needs to be made more effective ... a peaceful protestor with a prothesis was dragged around the ground and put in jail for 72 hours without charge ...
and to whoever said the city wanted the summit for the money needs to be better informed ... the city was asked to hold the summit when they realized that muskoka wouldn't suffice ... the city said ok - but ONLY if you hold it at the exhibition grounds where safety and security issues could be better handled ... harper agreed and then basically changed it without telling anyone at the city ... he basically picked the worst place in canada to hold a summit like this for one reason and one reason only ... to stick it to torontonians ... he knew there'd be damages to businesses which is why they said beforehand they weren't going to compensate businesses and are now forcing the city to spend money we don't have trying to pry dollars from the feds ...
this summit involved a bunch of infrastructure spending by the feds as well ... and guess what - none of it was for toronto who actually hosted most of it ... tony clement's riding got tons of money with most projects not even finished for the summit ... north bay (another con riding) got upgrades to the airport which never got used ...
i've never believed in harper's idealogue but spending a billion dollars while we are at huge defecits to basically stick it to a city and boost conservative ridings is beyond my belief in how far he'd go ...
there are larger issues at play here ... beyond the usual trouble makers - this potential inquiry into police actions needs to be made more effective ... a peaceful protestor with a prothesis was dragged around the ground and put in jail for 72 hours without charge ...
and to whoever said the city wanted the summit for the money needs to be better informed ... the city was asked to hold the summit when they realized that muskoka wouldn't suffice ... the city said ok - but ONLY if you hold it at the exhibition grounds where safety and security issues could be better handled ... harper agreed and then basically changed it without telling anyone at the city ... he basically picked the worst place in canada to hold a summit like this for one reason and one reason only ... to stick it to torontonians ... he knew there'd be damages to businesses which is why they said beforehand they weren't going to compensate businesses and are now forcing the city to spend money we don't have trying to pry dollars from the feds ...
this summit involved a bunch of infrastructure spending by the feds as well ... and guess what - none of it was for toronto who actually hosted most of it ... tony clement's riding got tons of money with most projects not even finished for the summit ... north bay (another con riding) got upgrades to the airport which never got used ...
i've never believed in harper's idealogue but spending a billion dollars while we are at huge defecits to basically stick it to a city and boost conservative ridings is beyond my belief in how far he'd go ...
I said the city wanted the revenue and I'll stick with that, has any figures been released about how much revenue was generated, has to be well over 100 million. The city could have said no, they know full well these summit's generate these kinds of problem. I agree Harper should have left it at the original site, but once he changed his mind all the city had to do was say "take your summit elsewhere". He either would have left it where it was or went elsewhere. The problem with Harper isn't Harper, it's the fact that know one really stands up to him, they just let him dictate all because he controls the federal purse strings and in this case where the G8/G20 was held and with it all the revenue, your mayor knew that and wasn't about to say anything because Harper would have no problem finding a replacement city.
As for the police action disgusting as usual, abuse of power. There should be an inquiry, McGuilty will not call one, so we should not hold our breath for one to happen anytime soon.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
On August 20, 2007, three protesters in Montebello, Canada during meetings of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America were discovered to be police provocateurs by Dave Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada. The entire incident was filmed and posted on YouTube before being picked up by the mainstream media. The video [4] shows three masked men, one of whom was armed with a large rock, being confronted by peaceful protesters. After the men breached the police line, they were brought to the ground, handcuffed, and taken away. Photographs revealed that their boot-tread matched that of the arresting officers. Although they at first denied that the individuals in question were agents provocateurs, the Sûreté du Québec issued a news release on August 23 admitting that the three protesters were, in fact, police officers.[5][6]
I was just about to post the very same facts.I saw a Canadian documentary film about this called You Me and the SPP
This is a situation that happens often around the world.Masked police set among the peaceful protesters to provoke trouble ... it is all to keep the masses in their places, subservient and cow towed.
It happened when the G8 Summit was held in Scotland a few years ago.
The Edinburgh protest went by peacefully until it reached the city centre then a riot broke out with a hoard of masked"protesters" descending on the protest ... it was later investigated and discovered they were police.
The truer side of law enforcement.
“There should be a place where only the things you want to happen, happen”
I said the city wanted the revenue and I'll stick with that, has any figures been released about how much revenue was generated, has to be well over 100 million. The city could have said no, they know full well these summit's generate these kinds of problem. I agree Harper should have left it at the original site, but once he changed his mind all the city had to do was say "take your summit elsewhere". He either would have left it where it was or went elsewhere. The problem with Harper isn't Harper, it's the fact that know one really stands up to him, they just let him dictate all because he controls the federal purse strings and in this case where the G8/G20 was held and with it all the revenue, your mayor knew that and wasn't about to say anything because Harper would have no problem finding a replacement city.
As for the police action disgusting as usual, abuse of power. There should be an inquiry, McGuilty will not call one, so we should not hold our breath for one to happen anytime soon.
seriously, there was like zilch revenue except for maybe hotels for the city ... all downtown businesses were closed! ... everyone in town left to avoid the nightmare that was this summit ... and once you agree to host it - you can't change your mind when harper changes the location ... it's not that simple ... and the notion that there would be a replacement city waiting in the wings is a myth as well ... he wanted to hold the G8 in muskoka (conservative riding) - a place that ACTUALLY got infrastructure money for it ... then when he was told he needed a bigger place ... one that will have to ABSORB costs ... why not go and fuck over the people of toronto ...
everyone can see what these summits do to cities ... it's quite evident ...
TORONTO — A soap bubble floating toward a heavily armed police line during the G20 summit in Toronto last month was apparently dangerous enough to prompt one police officer to threaten the playful bubble blower with arrest.
The exchange was captured on video and has become a YouTube sensation, drawing close to 100,000 views, while inspiring a charged debate on Fox News over whether one can be arrested for blowing bubbles in the direction of police.
“If a bubble touches me, you’re going to be arrested for assault. Do you understand?” says the officer in the video wearing a badge bearing the name A. Josephs.
“Bubbles?” asks Courtney Winkels, the 20-year-old bubble blower.
“Yes, that’s right, it’s a deliberate act on your behalf. I’m going to arrest you. Do you understand me?” the officer responds. “You touch me with that bubble, you’re going into custody.”
A look of shock comes over Winkels’ face as she complies with the officer’s instructions to put the bubbles away.
“I was having a conversation with a female officer and I even asked her if my bubbles bothered her. She smiled and shrugged it off so I figured it didn’t. . . . It’s not like I was throwing stuff at them,” Ms. Winkels told the National Post from her family’s cottage in Huntsville, Ont. “Then this big officer marches over and he’s totally in my face.”
Shortly after her exchange with the angry officer, which took place on the final day of the summit, Winkels and several others were arrested. She spent the next 47 hours in police custody before being charged with conspiracy to commit mischief.
The charge is unrelated to the bubble incident, she said, and pertains to the eyewash she was carrying in her capacity as a member of the Toronto Street Medics, an independent organization of volunteers offering medical care to people injured during the G20 protests.
“The police said I could throw it in their faces and temporarily blind them. I was, like, ‘Are you kidding me?’ ”
Toronto Police spokeswoman Meaghan Gray wouldn’t comment specifically on the bubble-blowing incident.
“A video is minutes in time that doesn’t necessarily accurately reflect all of the circumstances that were involved in that particular situation,” Ms. Gray said. “If the individual in that video feels like she was mistreated by a police officer, she should file a complaint with the Office of the Independent Police Review Director.”
Winkels said it was never her intention to antagonize police by blowing bubbles.
“I realize now maybe the bubbles weren’t the greatest idea — but still, it’s bubbles,” she said. “I was just keeping the mood light.”
There were hundreds of arrests made during the G20 protest in Toronto, which, aside from bubble blowing, also saw rioters damage property and torch a number of police cars. There have also been allegations that police officers over-reacted and used brutality in some incidents.
I said the city wanted the revenue and I'll stick with that, has any figures been released about how much revenue was generated, has to be well over 100 million. The city could have said no, they know full well these summit's generate these kinds of problem. I agree Harper should have left it at the original site, but once he changed his mind all the city had to do was say "take your summit elsewhere". He either would have left it where it was or went elsewhere. The problem with Harper isn't Harper, it's the fact that know one really stands up to him, they just let him dictate all because he controls the federal purse strings and in this case where the G8/G20 was held and with it all the revenue, your mayor knew that and wasn't about to say anything because Harper would have no problem finding a replacement city.
As for the police action disgusting as usual, abuse of power. There should be an inquiry, McGuilty will not call one, so we should not hold our breath for one to happen anytime soon.
seriously, there was like zilch revenue except for maybe hotels for the city ... all downtown businesses were closed! ... everyone in town left to avoid the nightmare that was this summit ... and once you agree to host it - you can't change your mind when harper changes the location ... it's not that simple ... and the notion that there would be a replacement city waiting in the wings is a myth as well ... he wanted to hold the G8 in muskoka (conservative riding) - a place that ACTUALLY got infrastructure money for it ... then when he was told he needed a bigger place ... one that will have to ABSORB costs ... why not go and fuck over the people of toronto ...
everyone can see what these summits do to cities ... it's quite evident ...
I'm sure there was plenty of revenue, all these cops, protesters, reporters and the the other out of towners had to be housed and fed. Your mayor knew full well the trouble these summits cause, he could have said no from the get go, Sorry if Toronto wants to be known as this great international city then sometimes your city will have to host these things and quit crying about it . So the people of Toronto got fucked for once, good .
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
its interesting and this isnt saying youre incorrect, in fact i think what you're saying is VERY correct..
however.. you mention police "wrath". protestors violent or peaceful are all out there for a reason.. most of which stems from the behaviour, actions, or inactions of government.
Police are government.
And police should be held more accountable for their actions than the regular person based on the power they are given.
And when the police do what they are currently doing.... it just seems to me that it would add fuel to the fire in terms of violent protestors.
In fact... it may be what turns a peaceful protestor into a violent protestor.
Basically what's happening RIGHT NOW.. is the police are telling people it's not okay to be a peaceful protestor.
I hope it doesn't get uglier than it is.... but I have a bad feeling.
It's like an action - reaction thing. A guy goes to protest with friends peacefully... sees his friend who was doing nothing wrong get punched by a policeman. This upsets the peaceful protestor. I'm not saying it will or does happen.. but it makes sense to me that the action of the cop is what spurs on a protestor to become violent.
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you know as well as i do that violent protestors know theyll clash with the police and they know their actions will antagonise them. now im not excusing police brutality. and its wrong for the police to target legitimate peaceful protestors, but should the violence be allowed to continue unabated?? should the police stand by and do nothing while property is destroyed?? whats the limit? how much of the law should they be allowed to break?? the violent protestors know the outcome of their actions.
i doubt a truly peaceful protestor would turn violent. while im not saying they should stand back and allow their fellow protestor to be beaten up by the police, but theres better ways to show your abhorrence at such treatment.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
how do you stop violent protestors?
and I think the truth is... you can't. You take a city the size of Toronto.. if a person wants to throw a molotov cocktail... they will.
This is how it looks to me:
We pay $1B. Riots still break out. Violent protestors... or "thugs" still damage property. And the answer to that... our $1B answer was to arrest people at random. Media, passerbys, peaceful protestors... all arrested. I just don't get it.
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well im afraid youve got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. please do not take this as me condoning the arresting of innocents, but the bad guys here are the violent protestors who bring this upon everyone. give the police no reason to react and imo they wont. eventually behaviour will change and peaceful protestors will be able to protest. peacefully... and unacccosted.
in answer to your question about violent protesters and how do we stop them. we marginalise them to such an extent that eventually theyll realise how unacceptable their behaviour is and what a waste of fucking time it is. seriously they cant not know their actions contibute nothing so why continue??
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I wasn't offended. I just took your comments to be about the protesters (toronto saying they aren't welcome) rather than the actual Summit itself, and in that context I thought they were unfair. I apologize for that...didn't realize you were talking about holding the summit here in the first place.
Harper is a douchebag and doesn't give a SHIT about Toronto. His bread and butter is Alberta plus well to do suburban area's. I guess he figured he was eventually gonna lose a non confidence once the Liberals have re-filled their coffers and grown a set (plus gained a little more approval) so he figures get their constituents pissed at them....get people pissed in general so he can get his tougher sentencing bills through and stuff.
I HATE Harper!
He totally should have held this elsewhere. Rent a fuckin YACHT and bring it into the middle of Lake Ontario...Keep it all up in Huntsville or something! Smaller area...easier to police.
MY city now has a bad rep cause of the violence yesterday and tonight after what those fuckin cops did at Spadina and Queen!!! As someone who was born and raised in this amazing city it makes me angry and sad.
Where the fuck was Mayor Miller and Chief Bill Blair today!?!?! COWARDS!!!!!
C: freedom of peaceful assembly,
with all the violence that has happened it sounds like those 2 rights have been abused by the protesters already
and maybe that's the cops angel for the arrests made on the streets you where talking about ? not saying it's a good thing just wondering.
Godfather.
The annoying thing about the violent protest and the property damage is that all it does is justify the 1 billion in security spending. Now the government can say they needed to spend all that cash to keep the entire city from being trashed.
I also find it funny that legitimate protestors complain about the rioters and how their message doesn't get heard because of it. Well if you want your message to be heard, why not make an effort to keep the violent protestors away? I mean how good would a clip look of a real protestor trying to stop a rioter from throwing a brick or something. That would be all over the news.
At last years summit in Pittsburgh it cost 20 million, they can not justify 1-2 billion. It does seem that wasting a billion at a time by governments in this country is becoming way to easy for them.
In the future they could hold these things at military bases and plenty of security to boot.
As for the protesters, they need to get a life.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I read in the paper today that Harper was being mr. i-told-you-so regarding the budget and the violence.
AMEN. Seriously, how hard would it be to pull this off? I've heard of this being done before too.
No not at all. See people are associating what this "black bloc" did as protesting.. which it wasn't. What they did falls under the Criminal Code under Mischief over $5000 and Assault. These are crimes. So the Police should be prioritizing themselves with arresting these Criminals and preventing CRIMES. Not Protests.
Now just because people commit some crimes... doesn't give justification to strip protestors of their Charter Rights.
You have to understand in Canada... and I can only assume in the U.S. many criminals.. mostly non-violent criminals have been let off the hook due to Police abusing the Charter.... IE: conducting wrongful searches and such.
the Charter is in place to protect the rights of all citizens. You cannot look at it as... "well, people committing crimes, therefore we're tightening up your rights as peaceful citizens."
That's not democracy. That's not Canada.
If anything, a Crime has NOW been committed by the Police. A very serious crime. And a very serious abuse of power. What will be interesting now is to see if anyone will pay for it. They should.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Constitutional rights are useful up to a point, but they do not serve to guarantee much more than what could be called the bourgeois conception of freedom. According to the bourgeois conception, a "free" man is essentially an element of a social machine and has only a certain set of prescribed and delimited freedoms;...freedoms that are designed to serve the needs of the social machine more than those of the individual. - Theodore Kaczynski
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
That's the problem with these summits, a few knuckle head protesters make the rest look bad. Harper knew what he was doing, none of his mp's will be fielding calls this week from pissed off constituents, he has no mps elected in Toronto.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Is it really a surprise when assholes end up doing what they do at these protests? Do the "peaceful" people actually think the leaders are in a room watching their demonstration and planning their agenda around it?
I would have rather seen the fence get breached and all hell break loose then what I witnessed on Saturday.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
yup.
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Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
and to whoever said the city wanted the summit for the money needs to be better informed ... the city was asked to hold the summit when they realized that muskoka wouldn't suffice ... the city said ok - but ONLY if you hold it at the exhibition grounds where safety and security issues could be better handled ... harper agreed and then basically changed it without telling anyone at the city ... he basically picked the worst place in canada to hold a summit like this for one reason and one reason only ... to stick it to torontonians ... he knew there'd be damages to businesses which is why they said beforehand they weren't going to compensate businesses and are now forcing the city to spend money we don't have trying to pry dollars from the feds ...
this summit involved a bunch of infrastructure spending by the feds as well ... and guess what - none of it was for toronto who actually hosted most of it ... tony clement's riding got tons of money with most projects not even finished for the summit ... north bay (another con riding) got upgrades to the airport which never got used ...
i've never believed in harper's idealogue but spending a billion dollars while we are at huge defecits to basically stick it to a city and boost conservative ridings is beyond my belief in how far he'd go ...
I said the city wanted the revenue and I'll stick with that, has any figures been released about how much revenue was generated, has to be well over 100 million. The city could have said no, they know full well these summit's generate these kinds of problem. I agree Harper should have left it at the original site, but once he changed his mind all the city had to do was say "take your summit elsewhere". He either would have left it where it was or went elsewhere. The problem with Harper isn't Harper, it's the fact that know one really stands up to him, they just let him dictate all because he controls the federal purse strings and in this case where the G8/G20 was held and with it all the revenue, your mayor knew that and wasn't about to say anything because Harper would have no problem finding a replacement city.
As for the police action disgusting as usual, abuse of power. There should be an inquiry, McGuilty will not call one, so we should not hold our breath for one to happen anytime soon.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Conspi ... z0tJhpYGyY
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
and police states.
and authoritarianism.
and brutality.
and injustice.
I was just about to post the very same facts.I saw a Canadian documentary film about this called You Me and the SPP
This is a situation that happens often around the world.Masked police set among the peaceful protesters to provoke trouble ... it is all to keep the masses in their places, subservient and cow towed.
It happened when the G8 Summit was held in Scotland a few years ago.
The Edinburgh protest went by peacefully until it reached the city centre then a riot broke out with a hoard of masked"protesters" descending on the protest ... it was later investigated and discovered they were police.
The truer side of law enforcement.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_i ... 565&ref=mf
seriously, there was like zilch revenue except for maybe hotels for the city ... all downtown businesses were closed! ... everyone in town left to avoid the nightmare that was this summit ... and once you agree to host it - you can't change your mind when harper changes the location ... it's not that simple ... and the notion that there would be a replacement city waiting in the wings is a myth as well ... he wanted to hold the G8 in muskoka (conservative riding) - a place that ACTUALLY got infrastructure money for it ... then when he was told he needed a bigger place ... one that will have to ABSORB costs ... why not go and fuck over the people of toronto ...
everyone can see what these summits do to cities ... it's quite evident ...
http://www.canada.com/news/videos/index ... nA7cyjkt5Q (video)
TORONTO — A soap bubble floating toward a heavily armed police line during the G20 summit in Toronto last month was apparently dangerous enough to prompt one police officer to threaten the playful bubble blower with arrest.
The exchange was captured on video and has become a YouTube sensation, drawing close to 100,000 views, while inspiring a charged debate on Fox News over whether one can be arrested for blowing bubbles in the direction of police.
“If a bubble touches me, you’re going to be arrested for assault. Do you understand?” says the officer in the video wearing a badge bearing the name A. Josephs.
“Bubbles?” asks Courtney Winkels, the 20-year-old bubble blower.
“Yes, that’s right, it’s a deliberate act on your behalf. I’m going to arrest you. Do you understand me?” the officer responds. “You touch me with that bubble, you’re going into custody.”
A look of shock comes over Winkels’ face as she complies with the officer’s instructions to put the bubbles away.
“I was having a conversation with a female officer and I even asked her if my bubbles bothered her. She smiled and shrugged it off so I figured it didn’t. . . . It’s not like I was throwing stuff at them,” Ms. Winkels told the National Post from her family’s cottage in Huntsville, Ont. “Then this big officer marches over and he’s totally in my face.”
Shortly after her exchange with the angry officer, which took place on the final day of the summit, Winkels and several others were arrested. She spent the next 47 hours in police custody before being charged with conspiracy to commit mischief.
The charge is unrelated to the bubble incident, she said, and pertains to the eyewash she was carrying in her capacity as a member of the Toronto Street Medics, an independent organization of volunteers offering medical care to people injured during the G20 protests.
“The police said I could throw it in their faces and temporarily blind them. I was, like, ‘Are you kidding me?’ ”
Toronto Police spokeswoman Meaghan Gray wouldn’t comment specifically on the bubble-blowing incident.
“A video is minutes in time that doesn’t necessarily accurately reflect all of the circumstances that were involved in that particular situation,” Ms. Gray said. “If the individual in that video feels like she was mistreated by a police officer, she should file a complaint with the Office of the Independent Police Review Director.”
Winkels said it was never her intention to antagonize police by blowing bubbles.
“I realize now maybe the bubbles weren’t the greatest idea — but still, it’s bubbles,” she said. “I was just keeping the mood light.”
There were hundreds of arrests made during the G20 protest in Toronto, which, aside from bubble blowing, also saw rioters damage property and torch a number of police cars. There have also been allegations that police officers over-reacted and used brutality in some incidents.
National Post
I'm sure there was plenty of revenue, all these cops, protesters, reporters and the the other out of towners had to be housed and fed. Your mayor knew full well the trouble these summits cause, he could have said no from the get go, Sorry if Toronto wants to be known as this great international city then sometimes your city will have to host these things and quit crying about it
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon