Unlistenable 2010 bootlegs
Comments
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Kat wrote:I'm confused...doesn't it matter at all what a person is listening ON? What gear is providing the sound that one doesn't care for...or that one loves and thinks is perfect?
And this is not official at all...it's just me...a music lover.
x
I made a record a few years ago and know a bit about sound — not necessarily how to fix it, though. I had all sorts of problems until I paid to have my record professionally mastered. The sound of the Boston and New York boots is radically different from the Spectrum boots. The Boston and New York ones have a shrill sound to them. The sound reminded me of the problems I had with my songs.
I am using good computer speakers to listen — and other music sounds fine.0 -
shiningstar wrote:as someone who was extremely grateful to get a 8th gen bootleg cassette tape, 8months after the show i saw, and played it 50times and still LOVED IT, i gotta say i wouldn't even have the nerve to bitch about what PJ offer me
years ago we didn't even have official pj bootlegs
and today people still find the need/desire to complain :roll:
i'd rather be grateful for what we have than to bitch about what we don't have
when's the next tour????
As a consumer, I have the right to complain about a product when the product doesn't measure up to products I bought in the past from that company, which is Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam is making money by selling bootlegs. Don't act as if they are giving you bootlegs for free — and you are, oh, so thankful. I have to say the Pearl Jam-is-perfect ideology on this board is upsetting. If Pearl Jam's taught us anything, it's not to accept things as they are — it's to fix things. Perhaps that thought is lost on some of you. Peace.0 -
The fact of the matter is to each it's own i've seen responses stating how awsome the boots sound to how awful they sound ,i could never by boots if i had to ask anyone here wich one's to get :oops: , i say go ahead ask for your money back if that is what you wan't but to come here and bitch about it to me at least is childish at best ....it's like your statin that you are some kind of sound expert so you know best ..jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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i think they sound great.
and even if they didn't sound great, at least PJ buts out bootlegs"All I Ever Knew" available now in print and digital formats at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and iBooks.0 -
OK, listening right now. All about personal preference. You can go 80/20 sbd/aud - which is basically simply adding in a bit of crowd noise to an otherwise sbd recording, or you can go completely in the other direction, with basically 20/80 sbd/aud source, which is what I believe they did on these. In the former, you get a great sense of every little nuance the band played, but you really cannot get a feel for what the crowd participation aspect of it was like. There are boots in '06 when Ed turns the singing duties over to the crowd and you really cannot hear it all that well. In these boots, you can really hear the ebb and flow of the crowd - you can really hear the crowd singing along "Yeah, yeah,yeah" to The Fixer, you can hear the immediate roar when Animal kicks in. It sounds like you're at the gig again. I don't think it captures the perfect, crisp, mix some of you are looking for. But what I think it does really well is captures the way it felt to be at the concert. It sounds an awful lot like it did inside of MSG. Personally I'm all for this, but it really boils down to preference.0
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pghas wrote:OK, listening right now. All about personal preference. You can go 80/20 sbd/aud - which is basically simply adding in a bit of crowd noise to an otherwise sbd recording, or you can go completely in the other direction, with basically 20/80 sbd/aud source, which is what I believe they did on these. In the former, you get a great sense of every little nuance the band played, but you really cannot get a feel for what the crowd participation aspect of it was like. There are boots in '06 when Ed turns the singing duties over to the crowd and you really cannot hear it all that well. In these boots, you can really hear the ebb and flow of the crowd - you can really hear the crowd singing along "Yeah, yeah,yeah" to The Fixer, you can hear the immediate roar when Animal kicks in. It sounds like you're at the gig again. I don't think it captures the perfect, crisp, mix some of you are looking for. But what I think it does really well is captures the way it felt to be at the concert. It sounds an awful lot like it did inside of MSG. Personally I'm all for this, but it really boils down to preference.
from what you're saying, it seems like they went for more of an "old school" sound. I think the boots sound amazing. I actually like them better than the 06 boots and ALOT better than the 08 boots (THOSE were crappy, even though I still enjoyed them). One thing I didnt like was when Ed did hand the mic over to the crowd and you couldnt hear the crowd.5/28/06, 6/27/08, 10/28/09, 5/18/10, 5/21/10
8/7/08, 6/9/090 -
TooMuchBlood wrote:The subject line says it all. These boots are horrible. I actually get a headache after a few seconds. Speaking as someone who make a double-disc record and went through lots of learning curves and instant headaches, I think these 2010 boots aren't mastered correctly. I am going to request a refund because I can't listen to these new ones.
Now it seems apparent why the Spectrum boots took so long to drop. Seriously. Listen to one minute of one of the Spectrum boots and then one minute of Boston or MSG from 2010 and then listen back to a Spectrum song. (Why won't PJ or 10C hire an amazing sound technician?) With time, you'll notice the difference more and more, but it's clear to me the boots from the 2010 shows are suffering — and severely. Why relisten if I get a headache within seconds. (It's all about sound frequencies.)
These 2010 boots are by far the worst I've ever heard. Bring back the guy or gal who recorded the ones in 2003.
maybe you have a brain tumorPJ: Hartford 6/27/08 Mansfield 6/30/08 Philly 3 Oct. 30 2009
Philly 4 Oct. 31 2009 Hartford May 2010 Boston May 2010 MSG 1 May 2010
EV: Albany 1 and 2 June 2009 Providence June 15 2011 Hartford June 18 20110 -
12345AGNST1 wrote:pghas wrote:OK, listening right now. All about personal preference. You can go 80/20 sbd/aud - which is basically simply adding in a bit of crowd noise to an otherwise sbd recording, or you can go completely in the other direction, with basically 20/80 sbd/aud source, which is what I believe they did on these. In the former, you get a great sense of every little nuance the band played, but you really cannot get a feel for what the crowd participation aspect of it was like. There are boots in '06 when Ed turns the singing duties over to the crowd and you really cannot hear it all that well. In these boots, you can really hear the ebb and flow of the crowd - you can really hear the crowd singing along "Yeah, yeah,yeah" to The Fixer, you can hear the immediate roar when Animal kicks in. It sounds like you're at the gig again. I don't think it captures the perfect, crisp, mix some of you are looking for. But what I think it does really well is captures the way it felt to be at the concert. It sounds an awful lot like it did inside of MSG. Personally I'm all for this, but it really boils down to preference.
from what you're saying, it seems like they went for more of an "old school" sound. I think the boots sound amazing. I actually like them better than the 06 boots and ALOT better than the 08 boots (THOSE were crappy, even though I still enjoyed them). One thing I didnt like was when Ed did hand the mic over to the crowd and you couldnt hear the crowd.
It's old school in that if you listen, the crowd is basically mixed at the level of a band instrument. So when the crowd is singing Small Town with Ed, you hear the whole thing, and you can tell when they get louder or softer. when he hands the mic off to the crowd, it's not a strain to hear them, it's natural sounding. Old school would mean, however, that the band was drowned out by some knucklehead next to the guy with the tape recorder in his pocket. Here, elements of the board are mixed in so that you can in fact hear everything. The old Dead tapers, the ones with two mics pointing to either side of the stage on a 12 foot high pole sitting behind the soundboard often captured this feeling but would havve loved to mix it in with a board patch, and now that's what people do when stright board sources become available.
Personally I love these because it re-creates the concert environment. I have 40 recordings of most of these songs where I can hear every nuance.0 -
Got the MSG2 CD's today. Sounds fantastic as did the Columbus show.San Jose 10/93, San Francisco 6/95, San Jose 11/95, St Louis 4/03, Columbus 5/10, MSGII 5/21/2010, Alpine Valley 09/03/2011 and 09/04/20110
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TooMuchBlood wrote:
As a consumer, I have the right to complain about a product when the product doesn't measure up to products I bought in the past from that company, which is Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam is making money by selling bootlegs. Don't act as if they are giving you bootlegs for free — and you are, oh, so thankful. I have to say the Pearl Jam-is-perfect ideology on this board is upsetting. If Pearl Jam's taught us anything, it's not to accept things as they are — it's to fix things. Perhaps that thought is lost on some of you. Peace.
I like this board and I love Pearl Jam but I completely agree with this.severed hand thirteen2006: Gorge 7/23 2008: Hartford 6/27 Beacon 7/1 2009: Spectrum 10/30-31
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
2025: Pittsburgh 5/16+5/180 -
If 2010 is like 2009, like LA3 2009 for example, I think LA3 2009 is incredible sounding.
Europe 2000 sound stunk because it was mixed too low. It was like someone whispering.
USA 2000 sound stunk because I think it was crowd mic'd and didn't even use the soundboard. Laughing, talking, too much crowd, and the guitars and bass were mud. Ed was mixed very low. The bass was nonexistent. Seattle, night 1 probably the worst. Also, 2000 USA, the band sounded like they were not over Rokslide, tired, depressed, etc.
2003 saw a huge improvement in sound quality however the upper midrange was way too high in many cases. That gave me listening fatigue where present. The feeling like there was water in my ears when there wasn't. There was great instrument separation. Much more bass. Huge improvement over 2000 but hit and miss. Places like Atlanta, Champaigne, especially good sound.
2005/2006 were not mixed well. Period. hard to describe. And having to set up a labratory and factory to get what I once got in a bag was a tremendous headache.
I love the 2009/2010 sound. I would rather hear the band clearly, well mixed, etc., than hear the crowd, echo and mud.
Don't get me wrong. If the band didn't release bootlegs and these 2000 shows were people's crowd tapes, I would be saying how great they sound. But when the band officially offers them for sale, I'm looking for live album quality. I think in 2010, they've achieved that.Up here so high I start to shake, Up here so high the sky I scrape, I've no fear but for falling down, So look out below I am falling now, Falling down,...not staying down, Could’ve held me up, rather tear me down, Drown in the river0 -
Veddernarian wrote:If 2010 is like 2009, like LA3 2009 for example, I think LA3 2009 is incredible sounding.
Europe 2000 sound stunk because it was mixed too low. It was like someone whispering.
USA 2000 sound stunk because I think it was crowd mic'd and didn't even use the soundboard. Laughing, talking, too much crowd, and the guitars and bass were mud. Ed was mixed very low. The bass was nonexistent. Seattle, night 1 probably the worst. Also, 2000 USA, the band sounded like they were not over Rokslide, tired, depressed, etc.
2003 saw a huge improvement in sound quality however the upper midrange was way too high in many cases. That gave me listening fatigue where present. The feeling like there was water in my ears when there wasn't. There was great instrument separation. Much more bass. Huge improvement over 2000 but hit and miss. Places like Atlanta, Champaigne, especially good sound.
2005/2006 were not mixed well. Period. hard to describe. And having to set up a labratory and factory to get what I once got in a bag was a tremendous headache.
I love the 2009/2010 sound. I would rather hear the band clearly, well mixed, etc., than hear the crowd, echo and mud.
Don't get me wrong. If the band didn't release bootlegs and these 2000 shows were people's crowd tapes, I would be saying how great they sound. But when the band officially offers them for sale, I'm looking for live album quality. I think in 2010, they've achieved that.
Nicely stated.
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12345AGNST1 wrote:I dont have any of the boots yet but Ive been listening to PJ radio and all I have to say is that you people need to stop complaining. theres nothing wrong with any of these boots. geez
The guitars sound like ass and the mix is way off. When Mike or Stone solos, you should be able to hear them. That's not too much to ask, especially since these 2010 boots are not "live" mixes, they are mixed in a studio after the fact, so there is no excuse for it. I find it interesting that Brett's "live" mixes were so well balanced, but now that they're mixing them later in a studio, they can't get the mixes right. IMO it's time to get a new mixing engineer.0 -
TooMuchBlood wrote:The subject line says it all. These boots are horrible. I actually get a headache after a few seconds. Speaking as someone who make a double-disc record and went through lots of learning curves and instant headaches, I think these 2010 boots aren't mastered correctly. I am going to request a refund because I can't listen to these new ones.
Now it seems apparent why the Spectrum boots took so long to drop. Seriously. Listen to one minute of one of the Spectrum boots and then one minute of Boston or MSG from 2010 and then listen back to a Spectrum song. (Why won't PJ or 10C hire an amazing sound technician?) With time, you'll notice the difference more and more, but it's clear to me the boots from the 2010 shows are suffering — and severely. Why relisten if I get a headache within seconds. (It's all about sound frequencies.)
These 2010 boots are by far the worst I've ever heard. Bring back the guy or gal who recorded the ones in 2003.
OK OK...stop by the house and pick up your pseudo street cred... Just don't try to spend it locally.....10/31/09, 05/21/10, Peru, Los Angeles0 -
The 2010 bootlegs are good. They aren't great. I've been listening to a lot of the 2000 boots lately and they are spectacular. Listening to Mansfield #44 right now and "Black" literally couldn't sound better. With that being said... We are witnessing a band that is playing better and manufacturing setlists that are better now than they have been in years. I saw a recent post asking to name your the best shows you have been too and the majority of shows listed came from the 06-2010 range. Right or wrong, that is an incredible testament to this band. I realize that the bootlegs may not show that with their recent quality, but for those who attend, we know how great they sound. Eddie sounds as good now as he did in these 2000/03 boots. Thats what matters.
I would love for the '10 boots to sound like the '00 boots but they don't. I will still listen to them frequently and enjoy reliving past experiences or listen to shows I wish I could have attended. I believe everyone has a right to question the quality of products they purchase, and well done for addressing it publicly, but I am satisfied. Thank you Pearl Jam for giving us the opportunity to listen to what we wished we could have seen and/or saw__________________________________________________________________________________
1998 - 9/16 Mansfield
2000 - 8/29 Mansfield, 8/30 Mansfield
2003 - 7/2 Mansfield, 7/3 Mansfield, 7/11 Mansfield
2004 - 9/28 Boston, 9/29 Boston
2005 - 9/1 Gorge, WA
2006 - 5/24 Boston, 5/25 Boston, 5/30 Washington D.C.
2008 - 6/28 Mansfield, 6/30 Mansfield
2009 - 9/30 Universal City(L.A), 10/1 Universal City(L.A), 10/6 Universal City(L.A), 10/7 Universal City(L.A)
2010 - 5/3 Kansas City, 5/10 Boston
2011 - 9/3 East Troy, 9/4 East Troy
2012 - 9/2 Philly
2013 - 7/19 Wrigley Field, 10/15 Worcester, 10/16 Worcester, 10/25 Hartford
2016 - 4/8 Ft. Lauderdale, 5/1 MSG, 8/7 Fenway Park
2018 - 8/18 Wrigley Field, 9/2 Fenway Park, 9/4 Fenway Park
2021 - 9/26 Dana Point
2022 - 9/3 Ottawa
2024 - 9/15 Fenway, 9/17 Fenway0 -
Sadly, I have to agree. I listened to the MSG shows today, and I have to say that the quality is really sub-par compared to some of the boots in year's past. There are moments where Mike's guitar is almost inaudible or is just completely hidden, and the overall quality is just not there. I know these are live shows and that sometimes quality can be hard to come by, but I have to believe that they can do better than this. And for the record, I listened to these in FLAC and still felt the quality was subpar so that really has nothing to do with it.
To be fair however, I don't think they'll ever satisfy everybody. Some shows which I think sound incredible, people complain about the bass being way down or the drums sounding tinny. I don't require much when it comes to sound, but I have to say the boots I've listened to so far from this tour have not been their best. The band sounds great though.
We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution.--Bill Hicks0 -
Porchsitter wrote:The band sounds great though.
This is what it should all be about. The band is on fire in Boston and in that case it was my favorite show and favortie bootleg.2006: Albany
2008: MSG I, MSG II, Newark(EV)
2009: Albany 1-2(EV), Philly 3
2010: Boston, MSG I
2013: Buffalo, Brooklyn II, Hartford
2016: MSG 1, MSG II, Fenway 10 -
i think your all drunk, High . or on some kind of drugs . yes All of u .
There FUCKING BOOTLEGS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD . AND IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF THEY DID IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER YOUR STILL GOING TO BITCH . !!
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I entirely agree as well, but think a lot of people here could try and learn how to register a complaint in less close-ended or offensive manners.SVRDhand13 wrote:TooMuchBlood wrote:
As a consumer, I have the right to complain about a product when the product doesn't measure up to products I bought in the past from that company, which is Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam is making money by selling bootlegs. Don't act as if they are giving you bootlegs for free — and you are, oh, so thankful. I have to say the Pearl Jam-is-perfect ideology on this board is upsetting. If Pearl Jam's taught us anything, it's not to accept things as they are — it's to fix things. Perhaps that thought is lost on some of you. Peace.
I like this board and I love Pearl Jam but I completely agree with this.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
I have a solution to your "headache problem"
First, listen to any 2010 PJ boot....then stop
Second, throw on some Bon Jovi or Nickleback.....then stop and realize what horrible music you are listening to
Third, listen again to any 2010 PJ boot....then, stop complaining and realize what a great band PJ is for releasing every show on their tour for their fans, even their whiny ones.
Thank you0
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