In good headphones, not earbuds, these boots sound great. They're not perfect but I am very happy with them.
For those who have been listening for day's/month's/year's the 00's, '03's, '05's, '06's, '08's, '09's and the latest new '10's bootlegs, everybody has a different take & feelings on these recordings. Not all mixes & recordings sound the same. Would be plan & dual if they were all the same. They all need a touch of paprika to spice things up.
Some want more Jeff (like myself) on these recordings, some want less Jeff. Some want louder ED, others don't. Many wanted the audience crowd noise much louder on these bootlegs where you can hear Jane scream out profanity to Ed about sexual favors or something. Insane? I know. But after year's of being spoiled with all these Official Bootleg goodies, everybody is a critic & have a choice & voice on these.
D.. I think you are taking a bit of an extreme look at what myself and some others have voiced in regards to bumping crowd noise. The band has several crowd mics set up at every show for a reason - they want some crowd presence - some of us want more. I find it hard to believe the crowd mics the band has set up even COULD discern Jane asking Ed for sexual favours - or really, anything besides what the overall 'crowd' was doing. The combination of quality crowd mics, quality band mics (or SBD access), and proper mixing, in my opinion, CAN yield a great sounding bootleg where we don't all have to feel like Pearl Jam is playing in an empty stadium. You seem to be of the opinion that a bootleg must exclusively be either good quality, or have crowd noise... I respectfully disagree, and believe that a bootleg can have both in an uncompromising manner. And I hope I can find a bootleg where I can demonstrate this to you.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I think we have the right to complain a little. The reason for this is because PJ has put out a product for the past 10 years, staying pretty consistant if not better up until the 2006 tour. The quality was great imo from the get if not getting better as time went on. For example, some people think that Europe 2000 wasn't fantastic, but things definitely got better for the next two legs, and everything that followed that. So really I feel we have the right to complain a little, for those that are hearing a difference. When the great product that u are use to getting, that has been more than up to par, has gradually slipped within the past two or three years. Especially when u are in times when the equiptment has gotten better and better. It's like anything that u buy. Say there is one particular thing that u buy and have bought for years just because that product is good and always seems to get better and better as time goes on, and all of a sudden the product downgrades and there is no other alternative. How would u feel? Would it bother u? I think that's how some of us feel about the QUALITY of these bootlegs. I don't think any of us can say that we don't want these or won't buy them anymore, I just think that we are use to a particular product that we now feel is not the same as it use to be. And why should the product be any different? Same venues, same sound systems, if not better. Better equiptment, same great instruments. I have to say that since 2008 these live recordings have gotten better, but still not like they used to be. We can only hope as time goes on the people mixing get into a zone like Brett Eliason was. Later
In good headphones, not earbuds, these boots sound great. They're not perfect but I am very happy with them.
For those who have been listening for day's/month's/year's the 00's, '03's, '05's, '06's, '08's, '09's and the latest new '10's bootlegs, everybody has a different take & feelings on these recordings. Not all mixes & recordings sound the same. Would be plan & dual if they were all the same. They all need a touch of paprika to spice things up.
Some want more Jeff (like myself) on these recordings, some want less Jeff. Some want louder ED, others don't. Many wanted the audience crowd noise much louder on these bootlegs where you can hear Jane scream out profanity to Ed about sexual favors or something. Insane? I know. But after year's of being spoiled with all these Official Bootleg goodies, everybody is a critic & have a choice & voice on these.
D.. I think you are taking a bit of an extreme look at what myself and some others have voiced in regards to bumping crowd noise. The band has several crowd mics set up at every show for a reason - they want some crowd presence - some of us want more. I find it hard to believe the crowd mics the band has set up even COULD discern Jane asking Ed for sexual favours - or really, anything besides what the overall 'crowd' was doing. The combination of quality crowd mics, quality band mics (or SBD access), and proper mixing, in my opinion, CAN yield a great sounding bootleg where we don't all have to feel like Pearl Jam is playing in an empty stadium. You seem to be of the opinion that a bootleg must exclusively be either good quality, or have crowd noise... I respectfully disagree, and believe that a bootleg can have both in an uncompromising manner. And I hope I can find a bootleg where I can demonstrate this to you.
Milan 2000. Just listen to Daughter or the encore breaks, or even yet, the entire show.
On a side note, thank you to Pearl Jam for officially releasing every show you play. Quality be damned, just the thought is bad ass.
While it's cool, they are making money off of it. I think people have the right to voice their opinion about what they feel is an inferior product. Honestly, I have held off on buying any of the 2010 bootlegs because of all the posts about the bad quality. Why should I pay for something that doesn't sound that good and is a downgrade from the same product I purchased in the past? If enough people voice their opinions on this, hopefully we can see an improvement.
For the record, I thought the 2 08 boots I purchased (WPB and Tampa) were horrible...bordering on unlistenable. In fact, when I try to put those boots on I can't even get through more than a few songs. The 3 09 boots I purchased (ACL, LA 3 & 4) sounded really, really, good...and are amongst my favorite boots from this band. I thought 00-06 were all good with 03 being my fav. What I seem to be reading is that the 2010 boots are more like 08 than 09..is this accurate?
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
What I seem to be reading is that the 2010 boots are more like 08 than 09..is this accurate?
They are really varied IMO... And honestly even within the same show the quality changes... I personally think it has a lot to do with the venue itself...
I agree the best sound in recent years was the LA shows from last year which I think had a lot to do with the venue... Having been to LA4, I can tell you the acoustics were great...
So Far I have gotten Indy, Columbus, Cleveland, Hartford and Boston...
Indy sounds the best, Columbus and Cleveland are pretty decent, Hartford is OK and Boston has some issue with it...
I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that the boots from 2000-06 sound different from the boots from 2008-10. Does anyone with any technical knowledge know why?
I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that the boots from 2000-06 sound different from the boots from 2008-10. Does anyone with any technical knowledge know why?
I think Brett Eliason (sp?) and basecamp stopped mixing the boots after 06.
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
I think they sound ok, but not great. Can we bring back Brett to do the sound and mixing?
"What can you expect when you're on top? You know? It's like Napoleon. When he was the king, you know, people were just constantly trying to conquer him, you know, in the Roman Empire. So, it's history repeating itself all over again."
It all depends on what you're looking for in a bootleg. I've listened to literally thousands of hours of various soundboard, matrix and audience recordings from different bands most notably the ones that do this alot - PJ, Phish, The Dead.
Generally speaking, people are usually somewhat divided on whether they like audience, matrix, or soundboard recordings. while soundboards generally can have a much clearer separation of different voices in the mix, and sound cleaner, they also tend to be much more sterile and don't accurately convey what it was like to be at a show. Especially with PJ, where they don't improvise a whole lot and aside from a few mistakes or lack thereof the different versions of many songs are very similar, different bootlegs then are really like different playlists of their songs, so you get to hear every nuance clearly but don't get a sense of the concert. Other people love audience recordings (and a great audience recording the way the Dead used to allow people to do was often a treasure) because you get a much better sense of what it was like to be in the room, but often at the expense of being able to hear the music clearly or even at all. And I think that what PJ is striving to do is create matrixes like this on the fly by mixing in good audience sources with the soundboard.
Having only heard the 2 MSG shows streamed from PJ radio, I have to say that while I can't assess the quality of the separation of instruments and the overall crispness of the board as well, I really did feel like I was being taken back in time to those shows - ie I think they've tried to re-create to a degree what it sounded like in the venue and have done an excellent job. You also have to remember that if you are downloading lossy formats you are losing a ton of the important information here.
A great example of a matrix is Rush in Rio - the clarity is nowhere near their other live albums, but they were playing in an apeshit soccer stadium in Rio and the recording really gives you a great sense of what it must have been like to be there - if you have that disc, there are 3 tracks at the end that are straight from the board, not matrices, and the difference is remarkable. And for those who want to take it a step further, check out the Tampa 2000 boot - something went wrong during Last Exit, which was cut out and tacked on to the end of the disc but rather than the matrix used for the rest of the boot, it's straight board. Bifg difference. Personally I think they're doing a great job, but alot of it is presonal preference.
I am going to request a refund because I can't listen to these new ones.
Are you serious? I mean everyone is entitled to thier own opinion but you doing that is just absurd dude. Come on, I mean you're just being ridiculous. They are live recordings, not studio recordings. If you honestly request a refund for these boots then you should probably have not only your man card revoked, but also your 10C membership revoked. Go listen to some Greatful Dead bootlegs or Allman Brothers bootlegs and get back to me about thier quality dude. I can't believe this post.
Like I said, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. If you don't think these boots are as good as other years, thats fine. But to honestly ask for a refund and epect one is a ludacris thought/statement. I hope when you email Kufala they tell you to 'Shove It'
The subject line says it all. These boots are horrible. I actually get a headache after a few seconds. Speaking as someone who make a double-disc record and went through lots of learning curves and instant headaches, I think these 2010 boots aren't mastered correctly. I am going to request a refund because I can't listen to these new ones.
Now it seems apparent why the Spectrum boots took so long to drop. Seriously. Listen to one minute of one of the Spectrum boots and then one minute of Boston or MSG from 2010 and then listen back to a Spectrum song. (Why won't PJ or 10C hire an amazing sound technician?) With time, you'll notice the difference more and more, but it's clear to me the boots from the 2010 shows are suffering — and severely. Why relisten if I get a headache within seconds. (It's all about sound frequencies.)
These 2010 boots are by far the worst I've ever heard. Bring back the guy or gal who recorded the ones in 2003.
maybe you're listening to them too loud. don't listen to them with the volume turned up to 11, try 10 instead.
Badly bruised ass after having it kicked by rockin' live recordings? Yes.
I gather speed . . . Great Western Forum - Jul 13, 1998; Great Western Forum - Jul 14, 1998; Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre Irvine - Jun 02, 2003; Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre Irvine - Jun 03, 2003; Tweeter Center - Jul 11, 2003; Santa Barbara County Bowl - Oct 28, 2003; Gorge Amphitheatre - Sep 01, 2005; Pepsi Arena - May 12, 2006 Summerfest - Jun 29, 2006; The Forum - Jul 09, 2006; Aloha Stadium - Dec 09, 2006; Bonnaroo - Jun 14, 2008; Tweeter Center - Jun 28, 2008; Tweeter Center - Jun 30, 2008; United Center - Aug 23, 2009
United Center - Aug 24, 2009; Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre Indiana -May 07, 2010; Madison Square Garden - May 20, 2010; Madison Square Garden - May 21, 2010
EV Solo 2008: LA1, Boston 1, DC1
EV Colo 2009: Nashville 1&2
Dead Man Walking: The Concert: March 29, 1998
In good headphones, not earbuds, these boots sound great. They're not perfect but I am very happy with them.
For those who have been listening for day's/month's/year's the 00's, '03's, '05's, '06's, '08's, '09's and the latest new '10's bootlegs, everybody has a different take & feelings on these recordings. Not all mixes & recordings sound the same. Would be plan & dual if they were all the same. They all need a touch of paprika to spice things up.
Some want more Jeff (like myself) on these recordings, some want less Jeff. Some want louder ED, others don't. Many wanted the audience crowd noise much louder on these bootlegs where you can hear Jane scream out profanity to Ed about sexual favors or something. Insane? I know. But after year's of being spoiled with all these Official Bootleg goodies, everybody is a critic & have a choice & voice on these.
D.. I think you are taking a bit of an extreme look at what myself and some others have voiced in regards to bumping crowd noise. The band has several crowd mics set up at every show for a reason - they want some crowd presence - some of us want more. I find it hard to believe the crowd mics the band has set up even COULD discern Jane asking Ed for sexual favours - or really, anything besides what the overall 'crowd' was doing. The combination of quality crowd mics, quality band mics (or SBD access), and proper mixing, in my opinion, CAN yield a great sounding bootleg where we don't all have to feel like Pearl Jam is playing in an empty stadium. You seem to be of the opinion that a bootleg must exclusively be either good quality, or have crowd noise... I respectfully disagree, and believe that a bootleg can have both in an uncompromising manner. And I hope I can find a bootleg where I can demonstrate this to you.
But how much more do you want? I still don't understand what you mean about bumping crowd noise. You petitioned for MSG 1 & MSG 2. You still wanted more crowd noise on those bootlegs after listening to them! How much MORE do you need? How much audience noise level do you want more of when Pearl Jam are playing their instrumentals on stage? Much louder then Jeff's bass? Much louder then Ed on stage? I still don't understand how much audience sound you want. Is it something like Kiss's Alive 3 record. Cause if so, I pray not. Who want's to pay money for professional live recordings to have more audience sound? Let alone have the sound of the crowd come out more from speakers from a car stereo, home entertainment system etc.. You don't want to be that guy on the bus or train or subway with fucked up looks from everybody around you with the music playing loud, and all everybody hears is just audience screaming & yelling sounds coming out of those headphones. Doesn't make any sense. Who pay's for more audience sound? I'll be happy to get a crowd, scream our lungs out & dub the audio on these Pearl Jam bootlegs if you want. How much more audience sound do you want? Want audience sound then go for fan recordings, audience recordings. And yes, there are many soundboard recordings that can pick up tiny timbits of fan's scream out sentences, like my Jane bit. If Jane was close to one of those speakers up front, then yes, the recording will catch it. If I'm gonna spend hard earn cash on professional live/studio recordings, I want to hear my band at work. Just the band. I want to hear crisp guitars, crisp bass, crisp drums, crisp keyboards & crispy vocals. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am going to request a refund because I can't listen to these new ones.
Are you serious? I mean everyone is entitled to thier own opinion but you doing that is just absurd dude. Come on, I mean you're just being ridiculous. They are live recordings, not studio recordings. If you honestly request a refund for these boots then you should probably have not only your man card revoked, but also your 10C membership revoked. Go listen to some Greatful Dead bootlegs or Allman Brothers bootlegs and get back to me about thier quality dude. I can't believe this post.
Like I said, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. If you don't think these boots are as good as other years, thats fine. But to honestly ask for a refund and epect one is a ludacris thought/statement. I hope when you email Kufala they tell you to 'Shove It'
for realz....u gotta be at least as bad as scott stapp to get a refund dude...and this is not even in the same universe as bad.
can we take a vote? All in favor of this thread being buried say Yah.
YAH!
Mansfield, MA - Jul 02, 2003; Mansfield, MA - Jul 03, 2003; Mansfield, MA - Jul 11, 2003; Boston, MA - Sep 29, 2004; Reading, PA - Oct 01, 2004; Hartford, CT - May 13, 2006; Boston, MA - May 24, 2006; Boston, MA - May 25, 2006; Hartford, CT - Jun 27, 2008; Mansfield, MA - Jun 28, 2008; Mansfield, MA - June 30, 2008; Hartford, CT - May 15, 2010; Boston, MA - May 17, 2010; [EV - Providence, RI - June 15, 2011; EV - Hartford, CT - June 18, 2011]; Worcester, MA - Oct. 15, 2013; Worcester, MA - Oct. 16, 2013; Hartford, CT - Oct. 25, 2013; Boston, MA - August 5, 2016; Boston, MA - August 7, 2016...
The sound comes off as shrill and harsh. It doesn't sound pleasant. Re: sound frequencies — adjustments over the the three main ranges can help improve sound.
Listen, just compare a 2000 or 2003 boot with this one. The headaches I speak of happened with repeated work with horribly mastered or unmastered music.
I have to agree..
I have no idea what type of quality review.. if any.. took place before these boots were released..
they are substandard compared to official boots of just about anyone out there iin 2010..
"This here's a REQUEST!"
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
I'm confused...doesn't it matter at all what a person is listening ON? What gear is providing the sound that one doesn't care for...or that one loves and thinks is perfect?
And this is not official at all...it's just me...a music lover.
x
I made a record a few years ago and know a bit about sound — not necessarily how to fix it, though. I had all sorts of problems until I paid to have my record professionally mastered. The sound of the Boston and New York boots is radically different from the Spectrum boots. The Boston and New York ones have a shrill sound to them. The sound reminded me of the problems I had with my songs.
I am using good computer speakers to listen — and other music sounds fine.
as someone who was extremely grateful to get a 8th gen bootleg cassette tape, 8months after the show i saw, and played it 50times and still LOVED IT, i gotta say i wouldn't even have the nerve to bitch about what PJ offer me
years ago we didn't even have official pj bootlegs
and today people still find the need/desire to complain :roll:
i'd rather be grateful for what we have than to bitch about what we don't have
when's the next tour????
As a consumer, I have the right to complain about a product when the product doesn't measure up to products I bought in the past from that company, which is Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam is making money by selling bootlegs. Don't act as if they are giving you bootlegs for free — and you are, oh, so thankful. I have to say the Pearl Jam-is-perfect ideology on this board is upsetting. If Pearl Jam's taught us anything, it's not to accept things as they are — it's to fix things. Perhaps that thought is lost on some of you. Peace.
The fact of the matter is to each it's own i've seen responses stating how awsome the boots sound to how awful they sound ,i could never by boots if i had to ask anyone here wich one's to get :oops: , i say go ahead ask for your money back if that is what you wan't but to come here and bitch about it to me at least is childish at best ....it's like your statin that you are some kind of sound expert so you know best ..
OK, listening right now. All about personal preference. You can go 80/20 sbd/aud - which is basically simply adding in a bit of crowd noise to an otherwise sbd recording, or you can go completely in the other direction, with basically 20/80 sbd/aud source, which is what I believe they did on these. In the former, you get a great sense of every little nuance the band played, but you really cannot get a feel for what the crowd participation aspect of it was like. There are boots in '06 when Ed turns the singing duties over to the crowd and you really cannot hear it all that well. In these boots, you can really hear the ebb and flow of the crowd - you can really hear the crowd singing along "Yeah, yeah,yeah" to The Fixer, you can hear the immediate roar when Animal kicks in. It sounds like you're at the gig again. I don't think it captures the perfect, crisp, mix some of you are looking for. But what I think it does really well is captures the way it felt to be at the concert. It sounds an awful lot like it did inside of MSG. Personally I'm all for this, but it really boils down to preference.
OK, listening right now. All about personal preference. You can go 80/20 sbd/aud - which is basically simply adding in a bit of crowd noise to an otherwise sbd recording, or you can go completely in the other direction, with basically 20/80 sbd/aud source, which is what I believe they did on these. In the former, you get a great sense of every little nuance the band played, but you really cannot get a feel for what the crowd participation aspect of it was like. There are boots in '06 when Ed turns the singing duties over to the crowd and you really cannot hear it all that well. In these boots, you can really hear the ebb and flow of the crowd - you can really hear the crowd singing along "Yeah, yeah,yeah" to The Fixer, you can hear the immediate roar when Animal kicks in. It sounds like you're at the gig again. I don't think it captures the perfect, crisp, mix some of you are looking for. But what I think it does really well is captures the way it felt to be at the concert. It sounds an awful lot like it did inside of MSG. Personally I'm all for this, but it really boils down to preference.
from what you're saying, it seems like they went for more of an "old school" sound. I think the boots sound amazing. I actually like them better than the 06 boots and ALOT better than the 08 boots (THOSE were crappy, even though I still enjoyed them). One thing I didnt like was when Ed did hand the mic over to the crowd and you couldnt hear the crowd.
The subject line says it all. These boots are horrible. I actually get a headache after a few seconds. Speaking as someone who make a double-disc record and went through lots of learning curves and instant headaches, I think these 2010 boots aren't mastered correctly. I am going to request a refund because I can't listen to these new ones.
Now it seems apparent why the Spectrum boots took so long to drop. Seriously. Listen to one minute of one of the Spectrum boots and then one minute of Boston or MSG from 2010 and then listen back to a Spectrum song. (Why won't PJ or 10C hire an amazing sound technician?) With time, you'll notice the difference more and more, but it's clear to me the boots from the 2010 shows are suffering — and severely. Why relisten if I get a headache within seconds. (It's all about sound frequencies.)
These 2010 boots are by far the worst I've ever heard. Bring back the guy or gal who recorded the ones in 2003.
maybe you have a brain tumor
PJ: Hartford 6/27/08 Mansfield 6/30/08 Philly 3 Oct. 30 2009
Philly 4 Oct. 31 2009 Hartford May 2010 Boston May 2010 MSG 1 May 2010
EV: Albany 1 and 2 June 2009 Providence June 15 2011 Hartford June 18 2011
OK, listening right now. All about personal preference. You can go 80/20 sbd/aud - which is basically simply adding in a bit of crowd noise to an otherwise sbd recording, or you can go completely in the other direction, with basically 20/80 sbd/aud source, which is what I believe they did on these. In the former, you get a great sense of every little nuance the band played, but you really cannot get a feel for what the crowd participation aspect of it was like. There are boots in '06 when Ed turns the singing duties over to the crowd and you really cannot hear it all that well. In these boots, you can really hear the ebb and flow of the crowd - you can really hear the crowd singing along "Yeah, yeah,yeah" to The Fixer, you can hear the immediate roar when Animal kicks in. It sounds like you're at the gig again. I don't think it captures the perfect, crisp, mix some of you are looking for. But what I think it does really well is captures the way it felt to be at the concert. It sounds an awful lot like it did inside of MSG. Personally I'm all for this, but it really boils down to preference.
from what you're saying, it seems like they went for more of an "old school" sound. I think the boots sound amazing. I actually like them better than the 06 boots and ALOT better than the 08 boots (THOSE were crappy, even though I still enjoyed them). One thing I didnt like was when Ed did hand the mic over to the crowd and you couldnt hear the crowd.
It's old school in that if you listen, the crowd is basically mixed at the level of a band instrument. So when the crowd is singing Small Town with Ed, you hear the whole thing, and you can tell when they get louder or softer. when he hands the mic off to the crowd, it's not a strain to hear them, it's natural sounding. Old school would mean, however, that the band was drowned out by some knucklehead next to the guy with the tape recorder in his pocket. Here, elements of the board are mixed in so that you can in fact hear everything. The old Dead tapers, the ones with two mics pointing to either side of the stage on a 12 foot high pole sitting behind the soundboard often captured this feeling but would havve loved to mix it in with a board patch, and now that's what people do when stright board sources become available.
Personally I love these because it re-creates the concert environment. I have 40 recordings of most of these songs where I can hear every nuance.
As a consumer, I have the right to complain about a product when the product doesn't measure up to products I bought in the past from that company, which is Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam is making money by selling bootlegs. Don't act as if they are giving you bootlegs for free — and you are, oh, so thankful. I have to say the Pearl Jam-is-perfect ideology on this board is upsetting. If Pearl Jam's taught us anything, it's not to accept things as they are — it's to fix things. Perhaps that thought is lost on some of you. Peace.
I like this board and I love Pearl Jam but I completely agree with this.
Comments
That's what I wanted to HEAR!!!
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Milan 2000. Just listen to Daughter or the encore breaks, or even yet, the entire show.
While it's cool, they are making money off of it. I think people have the right to voice their opinion about what they feel is an inferior product. Honestly, I have held off on buying any of the 2010 bootlegs because of all the posts about the bad quality. Why should I pay for something that doesn't sound that good and is a downgrade from the same product I purchased in the past? If enough people voice their opinions on this, hopefully we can see an improvement.
For the record, I thought the 2 08 boots I purchased (WPB and Tampa) were horrible...bordering on unlistenable. In fact, when I try to put those boots on I can't even get through more than a few songs. The 3 09 boots I purchased (ACL, LA 3 & 4) sounded really, really, good...and are amongst my favorite boots from this band. I thought 00-06 were all good with 03 being my fav. What I seem to be reading is that the 2010 boots are more like 08 than 09..is this accurate?
They are really varied IMO... And honestly even within the same show the quality changes... I personally think it has a lot to do with the venue itself...
I agree the best sound in recent years was the LA shows from last year which I think had a lot to do with the venue... Having been to LA4, I can tell you the acoustics were great...
So Far I have gotten Indy, Columbus, Cleveland, Hartford and Boston...
Indy sounds the best, Columbus and Cleveland are pretty decent, Hartford is OK and Boston has some issue with it...
EV- 2008, 2011 Boston
I think Brett Eliason (sp?) and basecamp stopped mixing the boots after 06.
Generally speaking, people are usually somewhat divided on whether they like audience, matrix, or soundboard recordings. while soundboards generally can have a much clearer separation of different voices in the mix, and sound cleaner, they also tend to be much more sterile and don't accurately convey what it was like to be at a show. Especially with PJ, where they don't improvise a whole lot and aside from a few mistakes or lack thereof the different versions of many songs are very similar, different bootlegs then are really like different playlists of their songs, so you get to hear every nuance clearly but don't get a sense of the concert. Other people love audience recordings (and a great audience recording the way the Dead used to allow people to do was often a treasure) because you get a much better sense of what it was like to be in the room, but often at the expense of being able to hear the music clearly or even at all. And I think that what PJ is striving to do is create matrixes like this on the fly by mixing in good audience sources with the soundboard.
Having only heard the 2 MSG shows streamed from PJ radio, I have to say that while I can't assess the quality of the separation of instruments and the overall crispness of the board as well, I really did feel like I was being taken back in time to those shows - ie I think they've tried to re-create to a degree what it sounded like in the venue and have done an excellent job. You also have to remember that if you are downloading lossy formats you are losing a ton of the important information here.
A great example of a matrix is Rush in Rio - the clarity is nowhere near their other live albums, but they were playing in an apeshit soccer stadium in Rio and the recording really gives you a great sense of what it must have been like to be there - if you have that disc, there are 3 tracks at the end that are straight from the board, not matrices, and the difference is remarkable. And for those who want to take it a step further, check out the Tampa 2000 boot - something went wrong during Last Exit, which was cut out and tacked on to the end of the disc but rather than the matrix used for the rest of the boot, it's straight board. Bifg difference. Personally I think they're doing a great job, but alot of it is presonal preference.
maybe you're listening to them too loud. don't listen to them with the volume turned up to 11, try 10 instead.
Badly bruised ass after having it kicked by rockin' live recordings? Yes.
United Center - Aug 24, 2009; Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre Indiana -May 07, 2010; Madison Square Garden - May 20, 2010; Madison Square Garden - May 21, 2010
EV Solo 2008: LA1, Boston 1, DC1
EV Colo 2009: Nashville 1&2
Dead Man Walking: The Concert: March 29, 1998
But how much more do you want? I still don't understand what you mean about bumping crowd noise. You petitioned for MSG 1 & MSG 2. You still wanted more crowd noise on those bootlegs after listening to them! How much MORE do you need? How much audience noise level do you want more of when Pearl Jam are playing their instrumentals on stage? Much louder then Jeff's bass? Much louder then Ed on stage? I still don't understand how much audience sound you want. Is it something like Kiss's Alive 3 record. Cause if so, I pray not. Who want's to pay money for professional live recordings to have more audience sound? Let alone have the sound of the crowd come out more from speakers from a car stereo, home entertainment system etc.. You don't want to be that guy on the bus or train or subway with fucked up looks from everybody around you with the music playing loud, and all everybody hears is just audience screaming & yelling sounds coming out of those headphones. Doesn't make any sense. Who pay's for more audience sound? I'll be happy to get a crowd, scream our lungs out & dub the audio on these Pearl Jam bootlegs if you want. How much more audience sound do you want? Want audience sound then go for fan recordings, audience recordings. And yes, there are many soundboard recordings that can pick up tiny timbits of fan's scream out sentences, like my Jane bit. If Jane was close to one of those speakers up front, then yes, the recording will catch it. If I'm gonna spend hard earn cash on professional live/studio recordings, I want to hear my band at work. Just the band. I want to hear crisp guitars, crisp bass, crisp drums, crisp keyboards & crispy vocals. Nothing more, nothing less.
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
for realz....u gotta be at least as bad as scott stapp to get a refund dude...and this is not even in the same universe as bad.
can we take a vote? All in favor of this thread being buried say Yah.
YAH!
I have to agree..
I have no idea what type of quality review.. if any.. took place before these boots were released..
they are substandard compared to official boots of just about anyone out there iin 2010..
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
I made a record a few years ago and know a bit about sound — not necessarily how to fix it, though. I had all sorts of problems until I paid to have my record professionally mastered. The sound of the Boston and New York boots is radically different from the Spectrum boots. The Boston and New York ones have a shrill sound to them. The sound reminded me of the problems I had with my songs.
I am using good computer speakers to listen — and other music sounds fine.
As a consumer, I have the right to complain about a product when the product doesn't measure up to products I bought in the past from that company, which is Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam is making money by selling bootlegs. Don't act as if they are giving you bootlegs for free — and you are, oh, so thankful. I have to say the Pearl Jam-is-perfect ideology on this board is upsetting. If Pearl Jam's taught us anything, it's not to accept things as they are — it's to fix things. Perhaps that thought is lost on some of you. Peace.
and even if they didn't sound great, at least PJ buts out bootlegs
from what you're saying, it seems like they went for more of an "old school" sound. I think the boots sound amazing. I actually like them better than the 06 boots and ALOT better than the 08 boots (THOSE were crappy, even though I still enjoyed them). One thing I didnt like was when Ed did hand the mic over to the crowd and you couldnt hear the crowd.
8/7/08, 6/9/09
maybe you have a brain tumor
Philly 4 Oct. 31 2009 Hartford May 2010 Boston May 2010 MSG 1 May 2010
EV: Albany 1 and 2 June 2009 Providence June 15 2011 Hartford June 18 2011
It's old school in that if you listen, the crowd is basically mixed at the level of a band instrument. So when the crowd is singing Small Town with Ed, you hear the whole thing, and you can tell when they get louder or softer. when he hands the mic off to the crowd, it's not a strain to hear them, it's natural sounding. Old school would mean, however, that the band was drowned out by some knucklehead next to the guy with the tape recorder in his pocket. Here, elements of the board are mixed in so that you can in fact hear everything. The old Dead tapers, the ones with two mics pointing to either side of the stage on a 12 foot high pole sitting behind the soundboard often captured this feeling but would havve loved to mix it in with a board patch, and now that's what people do when stright board sources become available.
Personally I love these because it re-creates the concert environment. I have 40 recordings of most of these songs where I can hear every nuance.
I like this board and I love Pearl Jam but I completely agree with this.
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
2025: Pittsburgh 5/16+5/18