Whites Five Times Richer Than Blacks In U.S

HeidiJam wrote:

scb wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Thank you for proving my poing again. You continually make excuses for them with out any knowlege of what the real issue is.

I have no idea what this means or why you suggest that I have no knowledge of what the REAL issue is. I would suggest that you are the one with no idea of what the real issue is, and no desire to learn. Or at least that you don't have any greater fund of knowledge than the rest of us.

It means your making excuses for situations that you have no idea about. "If they can't teach their kids a sport its probably because they don't have money, or time or health" Why do you come to that conclusion. What about welfare shows how hard they work. If you make a small ammount of money you actually don't qualify for welfare so that shows right there that they are willing to except less money for no work, than more money and work. I have a very good idea of the issue as i see evidence of it everyday, Cincinnati and the surrounding areas have gone downhill since i have lived their there is no progression. maybe not insult my knowlege and lets hear your idea on how to fix the situation. Let me guess more handouts?

First of all, you're the one who insulted my knowledge and are still doing so. You really have absolutely NO IDEA what I know about. Again, how can you possibly think it's reasonable to make such assumptions about other people??

Secondly, it's just amazing to me that you could make another blanket judgement like "they are willing to except less money for no work, than more money and work". Do you know every single one of these people of whom you speak, and their personal circumstances? Or are you a welfare determiner? Are you a job placement person? Do you coordinate the work vs. welfare decisions of everyone?? You say you see evidence of it every day, but what does this really mean? That you work on the front lines of the issue? Or that you drive past a poor neighborhood on your way to work? Again, your general anecdotal "evidence" holds little weight. I'm sure for every person you know who is on welfare who is lazy and uncaring, I know one who is hard-working and caring. So where does that get us?

And, since you're so knowledgeable about it, please educate me about the exact welfare regulations that you think prove your point. What exactly are you referring to as welfare? Just food stamps? Medicaid? And what exactly is the income requirement to qualify for each component of welfare? And how is this calculated? If you think you have some knowledge that I'm lacking that proves your point, please enlighten me (with sources).

Third, please don't misquote me. You can see exactly what I said in the post you quoted, so no need to alter it in your narrative.

Fourth, you asked how I can to the conclusions in my post: It's a proven fact that poorer people and people of color have poorer health on a population level that white or wealthier people in this country. Hence my suggestion that some people may not teach their children softball because of poor health rather than lack of caring. It's a mathematical fact that people who make less money must work longer hours for the same pay as people who make more money. Hence my suggestion that some people may not teach their children softball because of lack of time rather than lack of caring. And it 's just a logical fact that poorer people (and communities) have less money than people who are wealthier. And we all know that softball equipment, fields, etc. require some amount of disposable income. Hence my suggestion that some people may not teach their kids softball because of lack of money rather than lack of caring.

Byrnzie wrote:

Heidijam, you see the 'quote' button above everyone's posts? You should click on it sometime. It's there for a reason.

Absolutely. I've been trying to catch up on the last two pages and it is fucking unreadable. I've got no idea who is saying what. I keep thinking Heidijam has come around

But then I realize he/she is actually reposting someone else's shit but not quoting.

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

Heidi - I'd like to know what you think of this post.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=132405&start=90#p3006846

It will help you understand the basis for my feelings on this subject and maybe it will help you understand why minorities in fact DON'T have it very easy today in America.

I'd also like to know how you feel about women's rights and try to explain why men make more money than women in America.

As for Women's rights, Its probably best to start a new thread but I would love to give you my input. And I think i can explain what you are asking.

Heidi, my point is that humans have proven to be slow learners in regards to tolerance and equality. I'm not trying to steer off track by asking your opinion on women's rights and why they make less in America. I believe it is extremely relevant. Women, while having the numbers of a majority, have been treated similar to minorities when it comes to civil rights.

If you can't wrap your head around how difficult it is to get past oppression and bigotry towards blacks then I thought it might help to relate that to women. I think it is especially relevant since the topic of this thread has to do with money. If you can admit that women are still making less than men because they were oppressed then I thought we could gain a little ground here.

I get that it is difficult to get past oppression and bigotry but... there has not been any noticible progress to those who have no experience (the black youth). Check the other thread on women for my comments on that. Bur i don't think women making less has everything to do with women's rights. I think alot has to do with what their profession is.

HeidiJam wrote:

I get that it is difficult to get past oppression and bigotry but... there has not been any noticible progress to those who have no experience (the black youth). Check the other thread on women for my comments on that. Bur i don't think women making less has everything to do with women's rights. I think alot has to do with what their profession is.

I think you're missing the connection here. Many women, particularly the younger generation (akin to black youth) in the workforce have not been directly oppressed by legislation such as no right to vote etc. but still make much less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS. Yes, some women choose professions that pay less than those that an average man may choose. But I'm not referring to those cases. I'm talking apples and apples here.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/20/news/ec ... /index.htm

As I've said, one problem is that humans are terribly slow learners in regards to tolerance and equality. Many have deeply engraved beliefs that people with different skin color, gender, sexual preference, etc. are NOT EQUAL. While there has been improvement in recent years, it is CLEAR to any reasonable mind that the affects of such oppression are very long-lasting.

It's not just about the legalities of the discrimination. Yes, slavery no longer exists. Yes, blacks can vote. Yes, blacks can own property. Yes, blacks can be presidents. Definitely progress. And changing the laws to force people to legally treat others better was where it needed to begin. But racism, and income disparity will exist in this country until people change their ATTITUDES towards others.

MrSmith wrote:

setting aside who gets to 'decide', I dont think a lot of blacks like the assumption that they need any help at all.

Hehe -- are you trying to say that you don't need to make $100k / yr to be happy? What a country!

HeidiJam wrote:

I would like to see a stat on the accidental birth rate. Not that i don't belive you, I have just never heard that before.

CDC wrote:

In 2001, approximately one-half of pregnancies in the United States were unintended.

The best way to not have unexpected pregnancies is by safe sex, birth control, and to teach kids about it, not to sugar coat it how they do things today. Instead of treating sex like it does not happend,in school they need to explain to kids how realistic it is. This could help.

I agree that education & contraception are the best ways to prevent unintended pregnancy.

We have to remember, though, that women must have ACCESS to RELIABLE contraception in order to decrease unintended pregnancy rates. Poor women have considerably less access to reliable contraception. (Do you know what the most reliable form of contraception is? The IUD. Do you know how much it costs - just for the device, not including the doctor's visit? $703.) So what do you intend to do or what policies do you intend to support to increase poor women's access to reliable contraception, since this is so important to you?

We must also remember that contraception still does fail - a lot more often than people realize.

As far as reality #2. Put the child in the best possible care it can recieve. If the parents can't afford a child then someone else needs to take care of the child, there should be visitation if the bio parents want that, but it is extremely unfair for a child to grow up to live a life where they have to take care of their parents and live a life with no promise or taught any responsibility.

these are just my opinions, I am not saying they are right or perfect, but this is how i see fixing a problem that seems to have no end.

It sounds to me like you are suggesting that children born to parents receiving welfare be taken away from their parents and adopted by wealthier families. Is that correct? If you don't mean that this should happen as a matter of policy, there's no way in hell it will happen regularly enough to even make a dent in the problem. Would you actually give your child away just because you were going through financial hardship at the time of delivery? Neither would most anyone else.

HeidiJam wrote:

poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education - There seems to be overwhelming evidence for this.
Poor children stay out playing on the streets too late - i guess you see nothing wrong with that.

Please provide the overwhelming evidence that poor people and ethnic minorities don't care about education. Also, did you ever find out what percentage of poor children stay out playing on the streets too late?

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

I get that it is difficult to get past oppression and bigotry but... there has not been any noticible progress to those who have no experience (the black youth). Check the other thread on women for my comments on that. Bur i don't think women making less has everything to do with women's rights. I think alot has to do with what their profession is.

I think you're missing the connection here. Many women, particularly the younger generation (akin to black youth) in the workforce have not been directly oppressed by legislation such as no right to vote etc. but still make much less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS. Yes, some women choose professions that pay less than those that an average man may choose. But I'm not referring to those cases. I'm talking apples and apples here.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/20/news/ec ... /index.htm

As I've said, one problem is that humans are terribly slow learners in regards to tolerance and equality. Many have deeply engraved beliefs that people with different skin color, gender, sexual preference, etc. are NOT EQUAL. While there has been improvement in recent years, it is CLEAR to any reasonable mind that the affects of such oppression are very long-lasting.

It's not just about the legalities of the discrimination. Yes, slavery no longer exists. Yes, blacks can vote. Yes, blacks can own property. Yes, blacks can be presidents. Definitely progress. And changing the laws to force people to legally treat others better was where it needed to begin. But racism, and income disparity will exist in this country until people change their ATTITUDES towards others.

Excellent point. And, regarding the point I underlined above, I think this is a self-perpetuating problem. People see "others" as unequal, so they are treated unequally, so they are less likely to "succeed," so they are seen as unequal. It's a vicious cycle - and every one of us has to take the personal responsibility to stop it.

HeidiJam wrote:

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

I get that it is difficult to get past oppression and bigotry but... there has not been any noticible progress to those who have no experience (the black youth). Check the other thread on women for my comments on that. Bur i don't think women making less has everything to do with women's rights. I think alot has to do with what their profession is.

I think you're missing the connection here. Many women, particularly the younger generation (akin to black youth) in the workforce have not been directly oppressed by legislation such as no right to vote etc. but still make much less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS. Yes, some women choose professions that pay less than those that an average man may choose. But I'm not referring to those cases. I'm talking apples and apples here.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/20/news/ec ... /index.htm

As I've said, one problem is that humans are terribly slow learners in regards to tolerance and equality. Many have deeply engraved beliefs that people with different skin color, gender, sexual preference, etc. are NOT EQUAL. While there has been improvement in recent years, it is CLEAR to any reasonable mind that the affects of such oppression are very long-lasting.

It's not just about the legalities of the discrimination. Yes, slavery no longer exists. Yes, blacks can vote. Yes, blacks can own property. Yes, blacks can be presidents. Definitely progress. And changing the laws to force people to legally treat others better was where it needed to begin. But racism, and income disparity will exist in this country until people change their ATTITUDES towards others.

If this is true then why don't companies fire all the men and hire all women?

If what is true?