Plan to Build Mosque Near Ground Zero
Comments
-
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
yes aerial, christians may have never openly declared hatred for muslims, yet they do hate them. this is a case in point because hatred is what will keep this mosque from being built. we never declared war on iraq and afghanastan, but yet we are at war with those two countries. we have not declared those things, but our actions in their countries IMPLY that we hate them. don't you see how those things all are connected???? and why is there no comparison between christian extremists and muslim extremists? they are both fucking extremists right????aerial wrote:Christains have never declare there hatred for muslims, or any nation.........they have not declared death to anyone as the muslim exstremist have on America......so there is no comparing Christians (or Christian extremist) to Muslim extremist........fact is the extremist are embedded in this country and we have to stop the political Correctness and be cautious...it’s just common sense....
and yes, political correctness is the cause of all of this :roll: :roll: how about the arrogance of "american exceptionalism?? that crap is enough to make anybody want to kill us.
i am going to use the movie step brothers as a quick example.. to the rest of the world the US looks like derek, the cocky, arrogant brother that feels he is better and more exceptional than the other brothers, while dale and brennan are the smaller countries that are not the economic powers that derek is, yet they just want to make a life and not have any trouble or too many ambitions..so what happens? dale and brennan gang up on derek. do you see how all of this hatred can be caused by american exceptionalism and arrogance?
Christians do not hate Muslims WTF....what an asinine statement...can we stick with the facts“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln0 -
we don’t know if they live here ....we don’t know were the money is coming from yetgimmesometruth27 wrote:
the "christians" on this board will tell you that it is and has always been ok to do such things.justam wrote:It seems hateful to make it a problem that some american citizens might want to build a religious/community structure. In this article, they are rejected, seen as being terrorist-linked and somehow part of the group that attacked NYC!
Don't the people wanting to build the new structure live here too? Aren't they part of our country, aren't they people who live in NYC? Since when is it okay to attack Americans and make nasty assumptions because they aren't Christian?! :evil:“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln0 -
Great Point!Godfather. wrote:justam wrote:I think you're forgetting that we are a country of immigrants. The only people who were here BEFORE the immigrants were the native americans.
This idea that people who came later than your ancestors somehow are less American is false. No one is giving America away!! America has built itself as a place with people who have ancestors from all over.
I don't have a promlem with people wanting to be Americans and your right Americans built america...they came here to be Americans and help to build it not destory it,they gave up everything and left it behind with the country they left even changed their names to be Americans and learned our language, people on here don't think that's important anymore.
Godfather.“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln0 -
yes, they help to build it by spreading a disastrous disease to the current inhabitants and stripped them of their culture and resources.........Godfather. wrote:justam wrote:I think you're forgetting that we are a country of immigrants. The only people who were here BEFORE the immigrants were the native americans.
This idea that people who came later than your ancestors somehow are less American is false. No one is giving America away!! America has built itself as a place with people who have ancestors from all over.
I don't have a promlem with people wanting to be Americans and your right Americans built america...they came here to be Americans and help to build it not destory it,they gave up everything and left it behind with the country they left even changed their names to be Americans and learned our language, people on here don't think that's important anymore.
Godfather.
*barf*live pearl jam is best pearl jam0 -
Aerial, if you want people to take you seriously here you gotta stop saying your opinions are facts...aerial wrote:
Christians do not hate Muslims WTF....what an asinine statement...can we stick with the facts
Seriously, I'm starting to feel bad for you...live pearl jam is best pearl jam0 -
gimmesometruth27
I'm not taking this stuff personal from you, a thorn in my ass
I have to admit that was a good one !
Godfather.0 -
haffajappa wrote:
yes, they help to build it by spreading a disastrous disease to the current inhabitants and stripped them of their culture and resources.........Godfather. wrote:justam wrote:I think you're forgetting that we are a country of immigrants. The only people who were here BEFORE the immigrants were the native americans.
This idea that people who came later than your ancestors somehow are less American is false. No one is giving America away!! America has built itself as a place with people who have ancestors from all over.
I don't have a promlem with people wanting to be Americans and your right Americans built america...they came here to be Americans and help to build it not destory it,they gave up everything and left it behind with the country they left even changed their names to be Americans and learned our language, people on here don't think that's important anymore.
Godfather.
*barf*
they can go back then if they don't like it here.
Godfather.0 -
Godfather. wrote:
they can go back then if they don't like it here.
Godfather.
oh sorry I thought you were talking about what the other poster was talking about, as in you are a country of immigrants (we are a continent of immigrants).live pearl jam is best pearl jam0 -
Godfather. wrote:scb wrote:Godfather. wrote:so Charlie Manson didn't kill anybody but he will still never get out of prison :? set him free !!!!
that's what you guy sound like.
Godfather.
Are you comparing all Muslims to Charles Manson? And please be a man & step up & be clear about what you're really saying instead of avoiding the question.
good grief are you kidding......Muslims to Charles Manson ? you just proved what I have been saying, it also sounds like you haven't learned what a real man is....learn that before you ask me to step up cup cake.
Godfather.
Once again, you didn't answer the question.0 -
aerial wrote:
Who said that....you?scb wrote:Isn't it amazing what spin people can put on things? This unsourced article (or blog?) would have us believe that this is an offensive gesture and that those who personally experienced teh 9/11 attacks are all against it. But I heard about this a month or so ago. And what I heard is that it will primarily be a community center where people of all faiths can come together, that its purpose is to give back to this community, to oppose extremism, and to foster peace and healing. And they quoted 9/11 victims who were not only supporting it, but actively working to make it happen because they considered this a way they could fight back against the attacks.scb wrote:I'm so fucking sick of all the hatred I see coming from some groups these days. If it were up to them, we'd never have peace in this world.
:? Who said what? :?0 -
aerial wrote:Christains have never declare there hatred for muslims, or any nation.........they have not declared death to anyone as the muslim exstremist have on America......so there is no comparing Christians (or Christian extremist) to Muslim extremist........fact is the extremist are embedded in this country and we have to stop the political Correctness and be cautious...it’s just common sense....
As I've said before, if you send me your address I'd be happy to send you a history book for your birthday.0 -
justam wrote:It seems hateful to make it a problem that some american citizens might want to build a religious/community structure. In this article, they are rejected, seen as being terrorist-linked and somehow part of the group that attacked NYC!
Don't the people wanting to build the new structure live here too? Aren't they part of our country, aren't they people who live in NYC? Since when is it okay to attack Americans and make nasty assumptions because they aren't Christian?! :evil:
0 -
aerial wrote:scb wrote:the wolf wrote:I don't have a huge problem with this, but i do think it may be in bad taste in ways.
It reminds me of when the Klan put up their cross here on our city square at christmas time.
they have the right to do it in the name of their christian beliefs, but it's also bad form.
I don't know.
I don't really think comparing a Muslim peace group to the KKK is a good analogy. I don't think you meant to imply a similarity between the groups, but I think the implication is there nonetheless.
I also don't think this was meant to be an in-your-face-with-our-religion type of thing. My understanding is that there has been much talk about how best to rebuild this neighborhood and how to turn it into a site for peace and healing instead of war and suffering. Then this group stepped up and suggested that they could build a community center, which the community needs, and it could be a place where all kinds of people could come together as a neighborhood and learn to love one another across their differences. I believe the mosque part is their way of reclaiming Islam from the extremists, and showing the community that it is a peaceful religion, that they don't hate anyone, and that everyone is welcome.
I don't see this as being in any way similar to the KKK claiming your city square for their religion. I understand that some people may see it that way, but I think those would be the people who are ignorant about and bigoted against Muslims. I don't think the community should be denied their opportunity to heal in the way they see fit just to placate some hate groups.
See how
You will never see how twisted your reasoning is....calling Americans hate groups when it’s the Muslim extremist that hate!.....have you not heard about this?
We are rebuilding were the war has devastated their nation (because it is a war) are the Muslims over here rebuilding the world trade center?
I am so fucking sick of this attitude from ignorant, arrogant, hateful, self-righteous fuckers like you! THIS IS NOT JUST YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY. THIS IS MY COUNTRY - AND THE COUNTRY OF MANY, MANY OTHER PEOPLE YOU ACT LIKE AREN'T AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. I didn't call Americans hate groups; I called hate groups hate groups. You and your fucking hate groups are not the only Americans. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT CHRISTIANITY. YOU ARE THE EXTREMISTS. You spout off all your bullshit about freedom all the time and yet try to deny freedom for any Americans who aren't exactly like you. THIS COMMUNITY WANTS A FUCKING MOSQUE. IT'S THEIR COMMUNITY. THEY ARE AMERICANS. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WERE ATTACKED WHILE YOU SAT AND WATCHED FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR LIVING ROOM - AND YET YOU WANT TO DENY THEIR FREEDOM TO HEAL IN THEIR OWN WAY AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR COMMUNITY. IF YOU REALLY LOVE AMERICANS AS MUCH AS YOU SAY YOU DO, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE?!?! It's people like YOU who make extremists want to bomb us. It's people like YOU who turn peaceful people into extremists. It's people like YOU who will be the downfall of this whole world. I am ashamed that YOU are party of MY country! If you hate America as much as you act like you do, why don't YOU get the fuck out?? Let me say it again... YOU DON'T REPRESENT THIS COMMUNITY, THIS COUNTRY, OR CHRISTIANITY!! :evil: :evil:Post edited by _ on0 -
Godfather. wrote:I am completely confused by some peoples willingness to give America away to anybody, then say it's ok that they have attacked our country and now want to build a mosiliem a few blocks from ground zero ? to me that's a slap in the face to all Americans especially those that lost loved ones in that attack, it's my opinion that anybody American or not that dosn't love our country enuff to stand up for it can move the country of their choice asap and in some countries the may be supperised how well they have it as Americans.
Godfather.
Maybe if I write it big enough you'll be able to get it through your fucking head:
THEY ARE AMERICANS TOO!
YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY AMERICAN.0 -
Godfather. wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:yes aerial, christians may have never openly declared hatred for muslims, yet they do hate them. this is a case in point because hatred is what will keep this mosque from being built. we never declared war on iraq and afghanastan, but yet we are at war with those two countries. we have not declared those things, but our actions in their countries IMPLY that we hate them. don't you see how those things all are connected???? and why is there no comparison between christian extremists and muslim extremists? they are both fucking extremists right????
and yes, political correctness is the cause of all of this :roll: :roll: how about the arrogance of "american exceptionalism?? that crap is enough to make anybody want to kill us.
i am going to use the movie step brothers as a quick example.. to the rest of the world the US looks like derek, the cocky, arrogant brother that feels he is better and more exceptional than the other brothers, while dale and brennan are the smaller countries that are not the economic powers that derek is, yet they just want to make a life and not have any trouble or too many ambitions..so what happens? dale and brennan gang up on derek. do you see how all of this hatred can be caused by american exceptionalism and arrogance?
I'm sure another country would love to have you... :?
Godfather.
HE IS AMERICAN TOO!
AND HE'S JUST AS AMERICAN AS YOU ARE!Post edited by _ on0 -
aerial wrote:_outlaw wrote:
that's not common sense. punishing an entire group of people based one their connection by religion to a set group of extremists is completely irrational. how much more obvious can this get? you know what would be pretty funny, if you were just fucking with us because you're so wrong you have to be joking. don't you see how this only makes the problem worse? you know who can stop muslim extremists? muslims. so stop alienating them and start trying to work with them in rational ways and they can help overcome islamic fundamentalism easily, but instead you choose to just make problems worse and not work with anyone. you're clearly from the same ideology of supporting the wars overseas that have only made the US look worse in the muslim world due to the huge killing of civilians by US bombs. I'm pretty sure you're from the same party who supports unconditional support of Israel because in some strange way you see the in a "battle against terror" similar to our own delusional battle back home, and as Gen. Petraeus said, our position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is hurting our status elsewhere in the world, like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc... The entire Muslim world is still watching what the US does everyday. ordinary Muslim people around the world are waiting for a change in policy and until you show any change (and I'm not speaking of the crap Obama has been spouting off, let alone the insane GOP), they will sit, wait, and watch bombs dropping over their people and military occupations by the US operated and supported in many different forms.aerial wrote:Christains have never declare there hatred for muslims, or any nation.........they have not declared death to anyone as the muslim exstremist have on America......so there is no comparing Christians (or Christian extremist) to Muslim extremist........fact is the extremist are embedded in this country and we have to stop the political Correctness and be cautious...it’s just common sense....
I can’t be cautious of Muslims but you can act as if you know what my ideology is and you don’t even know me? So what’s the difference you have assumptions and I have mine....does that make us both Haters or just two people with different opinions?
You spout off your bullshit ideology on here every day, aerial, so he DOES know what your ideology is. You, on the other hand, have not had similar conversations with every single Muslim American, so you DON'T know have any basis on which to make assumptions. You are not just two people with different opinions. And you are the only hater.0 -
Godfather. wrote:justam wrote:I think you're forgetting that we are a country of immigrants. The only people who were here BEFORE the immigrants were the native americans.
This idea that people who came later than your ancestors somehow are less American is false. No one is giving America away!! America has built itself as a place with people who have ancestors from all over.
I don't have a promlem with people wanting to be Americans and your right Americans built america...they came here to be Americans and help to build it not destory it,they gave up everything and left it behind with the country they left even changed their names to be Americans and learned our language, people on here don't think that's important anymore.
Godfather.
Yes, we do think it's important to be American. We just disagree with your attempt to define what it means to be American on your terms while completely disregarding anyone else, despite the fact that they are just as American as you. My family has been here since before the American Revolution. Aside from the Natives, you can't get any more American than me. (And I'm a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, English-speaking, Christian, if that makes you feel any better.) But I - and many others - disagree with what you say it means to be American. How can you say my ideas don't count? As a matter of fact, if you want to maintain your bullshit notion that people who have been here longer get to define what it means to be American, chances are you should be deferring to me, because it's likely that your relatives got here after mine. And if you don't buy that, why don't you just defer to the fucking settlers, who came here to establish a great nation whose main fucking purpose was to allow people to practice whatever religion they choose, without persecution. So you see, it's extremely UN-AMERICAN for you to discriminate against people on the basis of their religion.0 -
Godfather. wrote:haffajappa wrote:yes, they help to build it by spreading a disastrous disease to the current inhabitants and stripped them of their culture and resources.........
*barf*
they can go back then if they don't like it here.
Godfather.
What the fuck are you talking about?? Who can go back to where??0 -
...Godfather. wrote:what ?..... wake up sunshine you don't know shit about me and "don't say you do" you and a few others are always using what if's and how abouts to back up your statments "'Rid Europe of the Jewish scourge" give me a fuckin break that's just straight up bullshit if that all you got to throw at me and disagree with me save it for someone that buys into your backwards ass bull shit.
Godfather.
Yes... I don't know you.... I can only go by the words you use to express your opinions. You are applying the SAME reasoning to justify your belief about Muslims. Fear and intolerance in order to secure your position.
The Model Citizens of Germany weren't bad people for believing the Jews were the cause of Germany's problems in 1939... they were using the same justification to get the Jews out of Germany. The same thing with the Americans that feared the Japanese in 1942. They believed they were doing the right thing... just as you believe you are. They believed 'those people' presented a threat to their country... exactly the same way you believe Muslims present a threat you your country.
Your overt expression of 'getting rid of them' are exactly the same things those Americans were saying about Japanese Americans and those Germans were saying about Jewish Germans. From things YOU say... you lead me to believe that they would have never found any Jews hiding in your attic, would they?
...
Me? I don't believe Muslims pose a threat and I'm not afraid of them. Radical religious extremist are a threat, but I don't believe ALL Muslims are radical extremist. I believe that good police work will uncover the real threat and that mob justice will make us less like Americans and more like extremists.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
...Godfather. wrote:justam wrote:I think you're forgetting that we are a country of immigrants. The only people who were here BEFORE the immigrants were the native americans.
This idea that people who came later than your ancestors somehow are less American is false. No one is giving America away!! America has built itself as a place with people who have ancestors from all over.
I don't have a promlem with people wanting to be Americans and your right Americans built america...they came here to be Americans and help to build it not destory it,they gave up everything and left it behind with the country they left even changed their names to be Americans and learned our language, people on here don't think that's important anymore.
Godfather.
How is building a Mosque 'Destroying America'? What about Jew that come here and build Temples? Are they 'Destroying America' , too? Contrary to your strong belief, not every Muslim that comes here is a terrorist. Most of them DO want to assimilate to American society... which guarantees them the freedom of religion. Yet, you want to get rid of them all.
Or... is it your opinion that everyone that comes here needs to convert to Christianity?Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.9K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110.1K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.2K Flea Market
- 39.2K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help