Health Care vote???

chromiam · March 2010

Kel Varnsen wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.

So if the tax payers are already paying for poor people to have required surgery (which is expensive) why not just pay for that person to have some free check-ups (which are much cheaper) so maybe they don't get to a point where they need expensive emergency surgery?

There are free clinics where people can go for free or low cost check ups and healthcare. However, most walk into an emergency room where they cannot be turned away for not having coverage.

slightofjeff · March 2010

Kel Varnsen wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.

So if the tax payers are already paying for poor people to have required surgery (which is expensive) why not just pay for that person to have some free check-ups (which are much cheaper) so maybe they don't get to a point where they need expensive emergency surgery?

In principle, that sounds like a fine idea. I'm not against it. I'm not arguing against reform. I'm just letting our foreign friends know that our society isn't so heartless as to let people die just for being poor. It wasn't/isn't like that.

slightofjeff · March 2010

chromiam wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

For some strange reason....

I have a strange feeling, in 4 years, I am going to be taking a beating..... hehehehehe

We will see....

2014 watch it go to fire???

Me too.. as it stands my current insurance plan would be considered a "cadillac" plan and the cost of the plan over a certain amount would be taxed as income....

I've heard this kvetching about "cadillac plans" ... I was under the impression the excise tax would only be on plans costing more that $27,000. Unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, I don't think your plan is that expensive.

But I'm more than willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.

chromiam · March 2010

slightofjeff wrote:

chromiam wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

For some strange reason....

I have a strange feeling, in 4 years, I am going to be taking a beating..... hehehehehe

We will see....

2014 watch it go to fire???

Me too.. as it stands my current insurance plan would be considered a "cadillac" plan and the cost of the plan over a certain amount would be taxed as income....

I've heard this kvetching about "cadillac plans" ... I was under the impression the excise tax would only be on plans costing more that $27,000. Unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, I don't think your plan is that expensive.

But I'm more than willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I believe that's the cost of a family plan, a single plan would be around $10,000 or about $800/month including employer and employee costs. I actually would be slightly below that threshold. But re-reading the legislation its funny to see the exemptions to that section... those who purchased thru AARP, those in a union, and those who have coverage through Blue Cross of Michigan.

Shawshank · March 2010

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

where are you getting your poll numbers? according to usatoday and cnn over 72% want universal single payor system.

As fucked up as the Republicans are, I'd have to believe that if they felt 72% of the people actually wanted this, at least one of them would have voted for it.

Flagg · March 2010

There are many things in this bill that I don't like and some things I do. Like a lot of you I felt the old system was broken and unsustainable, but I don't think they passed the best possible fix. I think being able to shop across state lines (a McCain idea) should have been included. I also think we as a country should eliminate fee per service and pay doctors and nurses salaries at hospitals - high salaries because of what they do and the cost of education and you want to retain the best, but salaries.

To me, this was the best part of the bill:

INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS: Starting this year, insurers would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, and from canceling policies because someone gets sick. Parents would be able to keep older kids on their coverage up to age 26. A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion goes into high gear. Major consumer safeguards would also take effect in 2014. Insurers would be prohibited from denying coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more. Insurers could not charge women more.

Personally I don't trust insurance companies any more than I would trust a credit card bank, a tobacco company or OJ's defense attorneys.

Starfall · March 2010

slightofjeff wrote:

chromiam wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

For some strange reason....

I have a strange feeling, in 4 years, I am going to be taking a beating..... hehehehehe

We will see....

2014 watch it go to fire???

Me too.. as it stands my current insurance plan would be considered a "cadillac" plan and the cost of the plan over a certain amount would be taxed as income....

I've heard this kvetching about "cadillac plans" ... I was under the impression the excise tax would only be on plans costing more that $27,000. Unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, I don't think your plan is that expensive.

But I'm more than willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.

No. In fact the excise tax is slated to affect 40% of plans by 2019. Which is why the House was up in arms when the Senate bill included this provision. The House's version of healthcare had a small tax on households making over $500,000 a year. I don't know why middle class people are expected to pay for this while we can't tax the rich, who have had an easy time since Bush gave them a $1.3 trillion tax cut.
The reconciliation bill heading to the Senate would partially fix this - which is why the House voted for passage.

gimmesometruth27 · March 2010

Shawshank wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

where are you getting your poll numbers? according to usatoday and cnn over 72% want universal single payor system.

As fucked up as the Republicans are, I'd have to believe that if they felt 72% of the people actually wanted this, at least one of them would have voted for it.

none of them voted for it because UHC was never an option and is not in the bill. the polls i refernenced were specific to universal single payer from about 10 days ago and many people opposed this bill because it was not strong enough and was not single payor. the GOP opposed it because that is their M.O.

Starfall · March 2010

Shawshank wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

where are you getting your poll numbers? according to usatoday and cnn over 72% want universal single payor system.

As fucked up as the Republicans are, I'd have to believe that if they felt 72% of the people actually wanted this, at least one of them would have voted for it.

Since when have the Republicans actually given a flying fig about what the common people want?

gimmesometruth27 · March 2010

so how is everyone's day going?? you know, with this being the first day of the end of the country and all since it was destroyed last night....i have to say, mine is the same as usual...

_ · March 2010

prfctlefts wrote:

And for those of you that don't think this bill goes far enough.When is enough enough?

1. When everyone has access to healthcare.

2. When the health outcomes in the U.S. aren't shameful compared to most of the rest of the developed world.

Starfall · March 2010

Flagg wrote:

There are many things in this bill that I don't like and some things I do. Like a lot of you I felt the old system was broken and unsustainable, but I don't think they passed the best possible fix. I think being able to shop across state lines (a McCain idea) should have been included. I also think we as a country should eliminate fee per service and pay doctors and nurses salaries at hospitals - high salaries because of what they do and the cost of education and you want to retain the best, but salaries.

To me, this was the best part of the bill:

INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS: Starting this year, insurers would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, and from canceling policies because someone gets sick. Parents would be able to keep older kids on their coverage up to age 26. A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion goes into high gear. Major consumer safeguards would also take effect in 2014. Insurers would be prohibited from denying coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more. Insurers could not charge women more.

Personally I don't trust insurance companies any more than I would trust a credit card bank, a tobacco company or OJ's defense attorneys.

There were some other really good parts of the bill too - Bernie Sanders' amendment to open over 10,000 new community health clinics was a wonderful addition, for instance.

And since OJ's defense attorneys got him acquitted, I think I'd want Johnnie Cochran and Barry Scheck on my team any day.

Flagg · March 2010

Starfall wrote:

Flagg wrote:

There are many things in this bill that I don't like and some things I do. Like a lot of you I felt the old system was broken and unsustainable, but I don't think they passed the best possible fix. I think being able to shop across state lines (a McCain idea) should have been included. I also think we as a country should eliminate fee per service and pay doctors and nurses salaries at hospitals - high salaries because of what they do and the cost of education and you want to retain the best, but salaries.

To me, this was the best part of the bill:

INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS: Starting this year, insurers would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, and from canceling policies because someone gets sick. Parents would be able to keep older kids on their coverage up to age 26. A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion goes into high gear. Major consumer safeguards would also take effect in 2014. Insurers would be prohibited from denying coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more. Insurers could not charge women more.

Personally I don't trust insurance companies any more than I would trust a credit card bank, a tobacco company or OJ's defense attorneys.

There were some other really good parts of the bill too - Bernie Sanders' amendment to open over 10,000 new community health clinics was a wonderful addition, for instance.

And since OJ's defense attorneys got him acquitted, I think I'd want Johnnie Cochran and Barry Scheck on my team any day.

hahaha - doesn't mean I have to trust them though!

I'm fairly down the middle, so I look at this thing like I see a lot of things, some good some bad.

I have a beef with insurance companies that consistently override my doctor and try to call my son's asthma "pre-existing" and deny coverage until we write a letter asking please and then they magically reverse course and cover.

Shawshank · March 2010

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

so how is everyone's day going?? you know, with this being the first day of the end of the country and all since it was destroyed last night....i have to say, mine is the same as usual...

So far so good.

Starfall · March 2010

Flagg wrote:

hahaha - doesn't mean I have to trust them though!

I'm fairly down the middle, so I look at this thing like I see a lot of things, some good some bad.

I have a beef with insurance companies that consistently override my doctor and try to call my son's asthma "pre-existing" and deny coverage until we write a letter asking please and then they magically reverse course and cover.

I'm borderline socialist and I agree with you there. These insurance companies are the REAL death panels.

(An aside about Barry Scheck though - he runs the extraordinary Innocence Project.)

_ · March 2010

slightofjeff wrote:

This from a more recent poll, taken by CBS during Sunday's vote:

As has been the case throughout the health care debate, more Americans think the reform bill will hurt them (35 percent) than say it will help them personally (20 percent).

Again, I'm not saying neccesarily I'm against the bill. I don't really know how I feel. But, judging by the polls, MOST Americans are, and that could hurt the Democrats in the November elections. Especially those serving in more conservative districts.

Without getting into this whole debate about polls and sources, I just want to point out that this question was about how the individual being polled would personally be affected, not whether they support the bill.

Flagg · March 2010

I also know (based on my job - I train our employees on new IT solutions) that people HATE change and will hate this bill just because it is change.

Please note that I am not accusing anyone here of doing that. Since this seems to be one of the few reasonably discussed threads on AMT and I think most of us are pretty well informed.

But I know from direct experience that people put up a fight and resist change even if it is for their better.

I wonder how that accounts for some of the polls. Fear of change (any change, good or bad) sends people into a panic sometimes.

I even had some people cry in class because we were replacing their 20 year old legacy piece of shit system with something new.

Starfall · March 2010

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

And for those of you that don't think this bill goes far enough.When is enough enough?

1. When everyone has access to healthcare.

2. When the health outcomes in the U.S. aren't shameful compared to most of the rest of the developed world.

3. When healthcare is considered a RIGHT, and not a privilege.

4. When healthcare is no longer a for profit industry.

/end socialist rant

slightofjeff · March 2010

scb wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

This from a more recent poll, taken by CBS during Sunday's vote:

As has been the case throughout the health care debate, more Americans think the reform bill will hurt them (35 percent) than say it will help them personally (20 percent).

Again, I'm not saying neccesarily I'm against the bill. I don't really know how I feel. But, judging by the polls, MOST Americans are, and that could hurt the Democrats in the November elections. Especially those serving in more conservative districts.

Without getting into this whole debate about polls and sources, I just want to point out that this question was about how the individual being polled would personally be affected, not whether they support the bill.

The first poll I cited on this thread was a Rasmussen about whether Americans supported, specifically, the health care plan. Same result.

The poll you are referencing was meant to be just corollary evidence supporting my point.

I don't think it's even up for debate that most polls, however they are worded, show the majority of Americans do not support the health care bill. Yet. Even President Obama knows this.

_ · March 2010

slightofjeff wrote:

Nobody here is letting poor people die.

That's debatable.

Health Care vote???

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