CCTV footage of the hitsquad in Dubai

yosi · February 2010

Twisting words, twisting words...Do you guys ever get tired of this? Cause I love South Park, and there's this episode where the kids get into World of Warcraft, and they all end up fat slobs with acne sitting in front of their computers drooling on themselves, and that's kind of my image of a lot of you, just you probably wear kaffiyehs around your necks, and have posters of Che on the wall, and a bookshelf full of Chomsky and Finkelstein. I actually kind of feel bad for you guys, coming back to this thread every day to howl into the whirlwind. It's kind of sad.

TriumphantAngel · February 2010

yosi wrote:

Twisting words, twisting words...Do you guys ever get tired of this? Cause I love South Park, and there's this episode where the kids get into World of Warcraft, and they all end up fat slobs with acne sitting in front of their computers drooling on themselves, and that's kind of my image of a lot of you, just you probably wear kaffiyehs around your necks, and have posters of Che on the wall, and a bookshelf full of Chomsky and Finkelstein. I actually kind of feel bad for you guys, coming back to this thread every day to howl into the whirlwind. It's kind of sad.

that's not very nice, but since you went there, i guess you have invited a response......

i love South Park too. one of my favorite episodes is where cartman makes scott eat his parents, it's called Scot Tenorman must die..,,,

kinda reminds me of you after reading your post. "Yes! Yes! Oh let me taste your tears, Yosi! Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! My-yummy! My-yummy......

but yes. south park rocks.

Cartman: Shut up - you ******* jew!!
Mr. Garrison: Eric, did you just say the 'f word?'
Cartman: Jew??

NoK · March 2010

yosi wrote:

I actually kind of feel bad for you guys, coming back to this thread every day to howl into the whirlwind. It's kind of sad.

as opposed to you not coming back to this thread every day? righteo... spare some change?

yosi · March 2010

Touche salesman!

I've tried to stay away from this thread as much as I can, but I have this strange, almost anthropological interest in seeing what you guys have to say. Here I get to see what's being said out on the fringe of the far left, way out beyond my normal conversational circle.

As for my comment not being nice, you're right, I was mean. But you guys exasperate me. And it isn't as if this thread is such a warm and fuzzy place to begin with. This board is stalked by phantom monstrous storm-trooper Israelis drenched in Palestinian blood. How do you think I feel reading that stuff given that who you guys are actually talking about are my family and friends, who I know to be the farthest thing from the caricatures you guys imagine them to be. I will be nice to those people I respect, and my respect has to be earned. When I see a reasonable post that seems worthy of a serious response I will give it the respect it is due. For everyone else, don't bitch and moan if you can dish it out but can't take it yourself.

Byrnzie · March 2010

yosi wrote:

I've tried to stay away from this thread as much as I can, but I have this strange, almost anthropological interest in seeing what you guys have to say. Here I get to see what's being said out on the fringe of the far left, way out beyond my normal conversational circle.

The thing is, the whole of the international community supports a two-state settlement along the June 1967 border. The whole of the international community - excluding the U.S. So, who's out on the fringe with this issue? Who are the rejectionists? Once again you try turning reality on it's head.

yosi wrote:

I will be nice to those people I respect, and my respect has to be earned. When I see a reasonable post that seems worthy of a serious response I will give it the respect it is due.

Or you can simply shove your respect where it belongs, along with your phony accusations of Anti-Semitism.

yosi · March 2010

My accusations aren't phony. I was being quite serious. When you talk about Israel you sound like a hateful guy. Not like a guy that is just offering criticism. You sound like you really are full of hate, and I find that troubling. At the very least it raises questions for me.

And as an aside, to anyone else who reads this, seriously stop and consider the tone and manner in which Israel is discussed on this board, and really ask yourselves whether there isn't an ugly undercurrent on this thread, at least with regard to discussion of Israel. It's plain to me, and I think if you're honest and really look at it you'll see it too. And if you do see it, is that really what you want on this site? Do you really want the MT to play host to something potentially so ugly, even if it is somewhat less than blatant?

Byrnzie · March 2010

yosi wrote:

My accusations aren't phony. I was being quite serious. When you talk about Israel you sound like a hateful guy. Not like a guy that is just offering criticism. You sound like you really are full of hate, and I find that troubling. At the very least it raises questions for me.

And as an aside, to anyone else who reads this, seriously stop and consider the tone and manner in which Israel is discussed on this board, and really ask yourselves whether there isn't an ugly undercurrent on this thread, at least with regard to discussion of Israel. It's plain to me, and I think if you're honest and really look at it you'll see it too. And if you do see it, is that really what you want on this site? Do you really want the MT to play host to something potentially so ugly, even if it is somewhat less than blatant?

No I don't see it. What I do see is a lot of people angry at the way Israel is permitted by the U.S to carry out crimes against humanity and war crimes. I expect that seeing as Pearl Jam is an American band and most posters on this political section of the Message Pit are Americans whose tax dollars go towards funding Israel's race war in the Middle East, that they have a legitimate beef with it.

The only ugly thing I see on this board are those people like yourself who will go to any and all lengths to support Israels crimes, and who, when all else fails - such as your constant attempts to turn reality on it's head - will resort to personal attacks and will brand anyone who criticizes those crimes a racist Anti-Semite.

catefrances · March 2010

Byrnzie wrote:

What I fail to understand is why all the fuss is about the fact that the Israelis used fake British passports. Surely the focus should instead be on the fact that the Israelis carried out an assassination, which is in itself a serious breach of international law.

not just british passports steve.

this is an absolute outrage though hardly surprising and i cant see anything other than raised voices that have already been spoken being the most that happens. the israelis have done this kind of thing before. they didnt give a toss what the international community thought then why should they give a toss now? international law doesnt apply to them, you know that.

t0mMye · March 2010

Really it doesn't apply to any countries trying to "defend themsevles". Iran, Cuba, Russia, United States...no one is stopping any of them from doing what they want.

yosi · March 2010

Byrnzie, of course YOU don't see it. And I don't accuse everyone who disagrees with me of being an antisemite. I've tried to make clear that I do not feel that criticism of Israel is antisemitic, and I would never label someone an antisemite simply because they had harsh words to say about Israel's policies. WHAT I HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING is questioning the motives of certain critics of Israel when the tone of their criticism seems to denote a degree of anger and hatred that goes beyond the abstractly political. As far as I can tell from reading what you've posted on this board you have no personal connection to the Middle East at all, and yet your hatred for Israel seems obsessive and personal. You don't just criticize particular Israeli policies, you demonize the whole country. If I'm off the mark with this accusation I'm very sorry, but perhaps you should reevaluate the manner in which you choose to engage in these discussions, because you are inviting these sorts of accusations by SOUNDING LIKE a closeted antisemite. As for "turning reality on its head" I don't think I've done so. We disagree on this issue. I understand where the critics of Israel are coming from. I just happen to have a different perspective on the situation. YOU however, reveal yourself to be absolutely close minded (and perhaps ego-maniacal) every time you arrogantly assume that reality is whatever you happen to believe. Seriously, has it ever even occurred to you that you may be wrong?!

puremagic · March 2010

yosi wrote:

My accusations aren't phony. I was being quite serious. When you talk about Israel you sound like a hateful guy. Not like a guy that is just offering criticism. You sound like you really are full of hate, and I find that troubling. At the very least it raises questions for me.

And as an aside, to anyone else who reads this, seriously stop and consider the tone and manner in which Israel is discussed on this board, and really ask yourselves whether there isn't an ugly undercurrent on this thread, at least with regard to discussion of Israel. It's plain to me, and I think if you're honest and really look at it you'll see it too. And if you do see it, is that really what you want on this site? Do you really want the MT to play host to something potentially so ugly, even if it is somewhat less than blatant?

Why should people have to watch there mannerisms when discussing Israel? Israel has haters, just like any other country and its people. You think just because Germany's leaders acknowledge Israel doesn't mean that there still aren't people that hate the jews in Germany? You think just because the U.S. supports Israel there aren't people who hate the jews in the US? Do you believe there aren't people in Japan that still hate the US? Hell even your signature line could be interpreted as you hating blacks.

Byrnzie posts ALOT about Israel, yet they don't read as hateful, in fact they're informative. Only through discussions can people begin to see other viewpoints, good or bad, right or wrong. Its up to the individual to take away from any discussion what they want. You seem to be holding your own, so quit trying to make people tiptoe around the discussions. Sensitivity only skews the issues and nothing of relevance gets discuss because we have to stop and break out the Kleenex. Israel's a big boy, big boys play nasty and sometimes they get caught, get over it.

yosi · March 2010

Hey man, maybe you should get over it. I'll call it like I see it. If it seems to me that someone is crossing a line into bigotry I'm not gonna let that slide. And I think that your idea that sensitivity detracts from understanding is absurd. The more provocative and insensitive you are the LESS anyone who doesn't already agree with you will want to take you seriously.

puremagic · March 2010

yosi wrote:

Hey man, maybe you should get over it. I'll call it like I see it. If it seems to me that someone is crossing a line into bigotry I'm not gonna let that slide. And I think that your idea that sensitivity detracts from understanding is absurd. The more provocative and insensitive you are the LESS anyone who doesn't already agree with you will want to take you seriously.

Bigotry and hate is every where, you and no else should let it slide. You, however, seem to think people should see Israel's actions in a different light. You're demanding that people should be more accommodating, understanding and sensitive towards Israel's actions. Why!!!! Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.

Pepe Silvia · March 2010

puremagic wrote:

yosi wrote:

Hey man, maybe you should get over it. I'll call it like I see it. If it seems to me that someone is crossing a line into bigotry I'm not gonna let that slide. And I think that your idea that sensitivity detracts from understanding is absurd. The more provocative and insensitive you are the LESS anyone who doesn't already agree with you will want to take you seriously.

Bigotry and hate is every where, you and no else should let it slide. You, however, seem to think people should see Israel's actions in a different light. You're demanding that people should be more accommodating, understanding and sensitive towards Israel's actions. Why!!!! Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.

:clap: :clap:

rebornFixer · March 2010

puremagic wrote:

Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.

And if that's what the anti-Israel crowd on here did, great. To put it bluntly, it ain't like that. You are describing a balanced approach that many on here do not take.

yosi · March 2010

:clap: :clap: :clap:

fuck · March 2010

rebornFixer wrote:

puremagic wrote:

Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.

And if that's what the anti-Israel crowd on here did, great. To put it bluntly, it ain't like that. You are describing a balanced approach that many on here do not take.

what's your definition of a balanced approach and do you have ONE example where anyone on here did not do that?

Byrnzie · March 2010

yosi wrote:

You don't just criticize particular Israeli policies, you demonize the whole country.

Is that right? Then you'll have no trouble providing some evidence of this then will you?

yosi wrote:

Seriously, has it ever even occurred to you that you may be wrong?!

No, because my opinions are not what's important here. I'm merely interested in the facts. And the facts speak for themselves. The factual record re: the IP issue is perfectly clear and unambiguous, regardless of whether this inconveniences people like you who like to pretend that it's an overly complicated subject full of nuance, and 2000 year old archeological mysteries.

NoK · March 2010

Report: Syria Ready for Peace, 3-Phase Normalization Plan with Israel

Syria is willing to consider peace and a 3-phase gradual normalization plan with Israel, according to Gabrielle Rifkind of the Oxford Research Group, who met with Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem in December.

In remarks published by the Israeli daily Haaretz, the conflict resolution specialist said that following an Israeli withdrawal from half the territory it holds on the Golan Heights, the two states would declare an end to the state of enmity between them as a first step.

"There could be stages of withdrawal," Muallem reportedly told Rifkind.

"Half of the Golan could lead to an end to enmity; three quarters of the Golan, to a special interest section in the U.S. embassy in Damascus: a full withdrawal would allow a Syrian embassy in Israel," the Syrian FM reportedly stated.

"Syria does not see direct talks taking place through Turkey, but Ankara could play a part," Muallem reportedly added.

However, the British specialist added that Muallem stressed the need for U.S. involvement in talks "to address the security concerns."

"The key issue here is U.S. flights over the Golan in order to provide security," Muallem reportedly said.

Answering a question about Damascus' relation with Iran and Hizbullah in light of such progress in talks with Israel, Muallem reportedly told Rifkind that Syria is a sovereign state and that it would reconsider that relation "only after Israeli withdrawal from Golan."

TriumphantAngel · March 2010

rebornFixer wrote:

puremagic wrote:

Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.

And if that's what the anti-Israel crowd on here did, great. To put it bluntly, it ain't like that. You are describing a balanced approach that many on here do not take.

can you define what exactly you mean by anti-Israel? are they the people like me, asking how it is possible that Israel is continually allowed to be above international law, and asking why no body seems to care about the welfare of the ordinary Palestinian people?

any criticisim of Israel seems to be an open invitation to be accused of hatred against jews in general. then of course, to take focus off what is being discussed, comes the mandatory suggestion that there must be some sort of underlying ulterior motive. that's simply not true, there's no ulterior motive. my only aim has always been to defend Palestinian human rights. of course i'm critical of the Government who is daily abusing those very rights.

the mandate of victimhood has expired as far as i'm concerned. no one can take away what happened to the jews in the past, none of us can do fuck all about that and i wish it never happened, but people can learn from it and speak out when they see injustices being committed elsewhere.

jews are capable of evil the same way other people are. stop and think about it for a second. for years they have been outspoken, advocating the unfairness of the fact they were persecuted in the past and never treated equally.

right?

so then, calling them out on their brutal, cruel, illegal and inhumane occupation of the Palestinian people, is in fact granting the Jews that all desired equality they always asked for.

CCTV footage of the hitsquad in Dubai

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