Yosi, the palestine/Israeli conflict isn't a joke man. Why even bother putting your opinion? People are dying and you play games with people on TM? You were in it at first to win it? Now it's a compitition? I just dnt get it?
Paranoid conspiracy theorist? Check. Neurotically self-obsessed (I'm assuming that the author identifies with Carter and Fink here, not such a stretch I think)? Check. It's a wonder that anyone takes you seriously.
Keep 'em coming tough guy.
I'm sure It's clear to every intelligent person on the M.T that these personal attacks are simply a result of your weak arguments having been rendered completely redundant, along with your credibility.
Both yosi and I have posted TONS of valid counterpoints. Your notion that the "other side" only posts personal attacks because they have no decent argument is delusional, dude.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you required explanations. It denotes that perhaps, given your hysterical and obsessive and at times paranoid and conspiratorial hatred for Israel that your real motivation (and maybe you aren't even fully aware of it and should do some serious soul searching) is anti-semitism. Not accusing per se. Just trying to explicate the charge that the other fellow seems to be making.
you still didn't answer me...if you aren't accusing me, per se, why did you say perhaps i am not fully aware of my own motivations and should do some serious soul searching to discover i'm an anti-semite?? that's why i asked you to come out and say it, which you still refuse to do, you have this roundabout way of implying and pretty much outright saying something then hiding and saying you aren't saying that, per se... :roll:
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Yosi, the palestine/Israeli conflict isn't a joke man. Why even bother putting your opinion? People are dying and you play games with people on TM? You were in it at first to win it? Now it's a compitition? I just dnt get it?
It isn't a joke at all. I've lived it. I know. But people on this board don't treat the situation seriously. They approach this topic as if it was some sort of passion play or morality tale where there are clear good guys and bad guys. That just isn't reality. I've tried to have a serious discussion of this issue on this board and gotten nowhere. Given that Israel is discussed here in absolutely unrealistic terms I have absolutely no problem treating this board as a joke with regard to this topic. I'm Jewish. It's how we cope. You don't like gallows humor, that's your problem, not mine.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
You sound like an anti-Semite to me with all your B.S. post on this subject Im glad these guys did what they did. The guy was a fucking terrorist. Good for Isreal.
asking how it is possible that Israel is continually allowed to be above international law, and asking why no body seems to care about the welfare of the ordinary Palestinian people, does not make me anti-semite.
They're just trying to survive and defend themselves.
that's what the excuse is for the ongoing occupation of the Palestinians. it doesn't mean that it's true. we've been over this so many times. i disagree that you should be able to imprison an entire community of people (1.5 million), because of the actions of a few.
and defend themselves?
Israel told the world they launched their attack on Gaza in 08 to stop rocket attacks. since the rockets began about 9 years ago, about 30 Israelis have been killed. in the 08 assualt on Gaza, in 3 weeks, 1417 Palestinians were killed. 76% of those people killed were not even combatants. 318 were children
i did a post about that a few weeks ok. i don't think you contributed there.
just making sure you understand where i am coming from. you can tell me till you are blue in the face that Israel is just trying to defend themselves, and i'll keep telling you that you cannot imprison an entire population because of the actions of a few.
Yeah, you're right, these are pretty personal attacks, and they are weak arguments because of it. Thing is, last time around I was in it to win it, and I used my good arguments. This time around I'm not even going to bother. There isn't any point. Really, I'm just having a bit of fun provoking you guys into some more of your crazed rantings, not that you need any encouragement from me.
oh yes, our crazed rantings. we talk of such demented things like 'peace' and 'morality.' we believe in our deranged notion that people should be held accountable for their crimes. we have clearly lost our fucking minds! on the other hand, yosi is completely sane. he tries to justify the killing of thousands of people, his head is in the right place. way to go yosi, stayin ahead of the curve.
They're just trying to survive and defend themselves.
Is that how you justify the ongoing, illegal, settlement expansion?
No jackass, that is actually not how I justify it, because, as I've said over and over to you, I don't support the settlements!
No, you don't support the settlements, but you still think the settlers have a rightful claim to whatever 'parts of the West Bank' they see fit to steal. Nice cozy, self-serving logic you have there, jackass.
Twisting words, twisting words...Do you guys ever get tired of this? Cause I love South Park, and there's this episode where the kids get into World of Warcraft, and they all end up fat slobs with acne sitting in front of their computers drooling on themselves, and that's kind of my image of a lot of you, just you probably wear kaffiyehs around your necks, and have posters of Che on the wall, and a bookshelf full of Chomsky and Finkelstein. I actually kind of feel bad for you guys, coming back to this thread every day to howl into the whirlwind. It's kind of sad.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Twisting words, twisting words...Do you guys ever get tired of this? Cause I love South Park, and there's this episode where the kids get into World of Warcraft, and they all end up fat slobs with acne sitting in front of their computers drooling on themselves, and that's kind of my image of a lot of you, just you probably wear kaffiyehs around your necks, and have posters of Che on the wall, and a bookshelf full of Chomsky and Finkelstein. I actually kind of feel bad for you guys, coming back to this thread every day to howl into the whirlwind. It's kind of sad.
that's not very nice, but since you went there, i guess you have invited a response......
i love South Park too. one of my favorite episodes is where cartman makes scott eat his parents, it's called Scot Tenorman must die..,,,
kinda reminds me of you after reading your post. "Yes! Yes! Oh let me taste your tears, Yosi! Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! My-yummy! My-yummy......
but yes. south park rocks.
Cartman: Shut up - you ******* jew!!
Mr. Garrison: Eric, did you just say the 'f word?'
Cartman: Jew??
I've tried to stay away from this thread as much as I can, but I have this strange, almost anthropological interest in seeing what you guys have to say. Here I get to see what's being said out on the fringe of the far left, way out beyond my normal conversational circle.
As for my comment not being nice, you're right, I was mean. But you guys exasperate me. And it isn't as if this thread is such a warm and fuzzy place to begin with. This board is stalked by phantom monstrous storm-trooper Israelis drenched in Palestinian blood. How do you think I feel reading that stuff given that who you guys are actually talking about are my family and friends, who I know to be the farthest thing from the caricatures you guys imagine them to be. I will be nice to those people I respect, and my respect has to be earned. When I see a reasonable post that seems worthy of a serious response I will give it the respect it is due. For everyone else, don't bitch and moan if you can dish it out but can't take it yourself.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
I've tried to stay away from this thread as much as I can, but I have this strange, almost anthropological interest in seeing what you guys have to say. Here I get to see what's being said out on the fringe of the far left, way out beyond my normal conversational circle.
The thing is, the whole of the international community supports a two-state settlement along the June 1967 border. The whole of the international community - excluding the U.S. So, who's out on the fringe with this issue? Who are the rejectionists? Once again you try turning reality on it's head.
I will be nice to those people I respect, and my respect has to be earned. When I see a reasonable post that seems worthy of a serious response I will give it the respect it is due.
Or you can simply shove your respect where it belongs, along with your phony accusations of Anti-Semitism.
My accusations aren't phony. I was being quite serious. When you talk about Israel you sound like a hateful guy. Not like a guy that is just offering criticism. You sound like you really are full of hate, and I find that troubling. At the very least it raises questions for me.
And as an aside, to anyone else who reads this, seriously stop and consider the tone and manner in which Israel is discussed on this board, and really ask yourselves whether there isn't an ugly undercurrent on this thread, at least with regard to discussion of Israel. It's plain to me, and I think if you're honest and really look at it you'll see it too. And if you do see it, is that really what you want on this site? Do you really want the MT to play host to something potentially so ugly, even if it is somewhat less than blatant?
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
My accusations aren't phony. I was being quite serious. When you talk about Israel you sound like a hateful guy. Not like a guy that is just offering criticism. You sound like you really are full of hate, and I find that troubling. At the very least it raises questions for me.
And as an aside, to anyone else who reads this, seriously stop and consider the tone and manner in which Israel is discussed on this board, and really ask yourselves whether there isn't an ugly undercurrent on this thread, at least with regard to discussion of Israel. It's plain to me, and I think if you're honest and really look at it you'll see it too. And if you do see it, is that really what you want on this site? Do you really want the MT to play host to something potentially so ugly, even if it is somewhat less than blatant?
No I don't see it. What I do see is a lot of people angry at the way Israel is permitted by the U.S to carry out crimes against humanity and war crimes. I expect that seeing as Pearl Jam is an American band and most posters on this political section of the Message Pit are Americans whose tax dollars go towards funding Israel's race war in the Middle East, that they have a legitimate beef with it.
The only ugly thing I see on this board are those people like yourself who will go to any and all lengths to support Israels crimes, and who, when all else fails - such as your constant attempts to turn reality on it's head - will resort to personal attacks and will brand anyone who criticizes those crimes a racist Anti-Semite.
What I fail to understand is why all the fuss is about the fact that the Israelis used fake British passports. Surely the focus should instead be on the fact that the Israelis carried out an assassination, which is in itself a serious breach of international law.
not just british passports steve.
this is an absolute outrage though hardly surprising and i cant see anything other than raised voices that have already been spoken being the most that happens. the israelis have done this kind of thing before. they didnt give a toss what the international community thought then why should they give a toss now? international law doesnt apply to them, you know that.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Really it doesn't apply to any countries trying to "defend themsevles". Iran, Cuba, Russia, United States...no one is stopping any of them from doing what they want.
Ten Club # 433608, when I am 80 I will be in the front row!
Byrnzie, of course YOU don't see it. And I don't accuse everyone who disagrees with me of being an antisemite. I've tried to make clear that I do not feel that criticism of Israel is antisemitic, and I would never label someone an antisemite simply because they had harsh words to say about Israel's policies. WHAT I HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING is questioning the motives of certain critics of Israel when the tone of their criticism seems to denote a degree of anger and hatred that goes beyond the abstractly political. As far as I can tell from reading what you've posted on this board you have no personal connection to the Middle East at all, and yet your hatred for Israel seems obsessive and personal. You don't just criticize particular Israeli policies, you demonize the whole country. If I'm off the mark with this accusation I'm very sorry, but perhaps you should reevaluate the manner in which you choose to engage in these discussions, because you are inviting these sorts of accusations by SOUNDING LIKE a closeted antisemite. As for "turning reality on its head" I don't think I've done so. We disagree on this issue. I understand where the critics of Israel are coming from. I just happen to have a different perspective on the situation. YOU however, reveal yourself to be absolutely close minded (and perhaps ego-maniacal) every time you arrogantly assume that reality is whatever you happen to believe. Seriously, has it ever even occurred to you that you may be wrong?!
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
My accusations aren't phony. I was being quite serious. When you talk about Israel you sound like a hateful guy. Not like a guy that is just offering criticism. You sound like you really are full of hate, and I find that troubling. At the very least it raises questions for me.
And as an aside, to anyone else who reads this, seriously stop and consider the tone and manner in which Israel is discussed on this board, and really ask yourselves whether there isn't an ugly undercurrent on this thread, at least with regard to discussion of Israel. It's plain to me, and I think if you're honest and really look at it you'll see it too. And if you do see it, is that really what you want on this site? Do you really want the MT to play host to something potentially so ugly, even if it is somewhat less than blatant?
Why should people have to watch there mannerisms when discussing Israel? Israel has haters, just like any other country and its people. You think just because Germany's leaders acknowledge Israel doesn't mean that there still aren't people that hate the jews in Germany? You think just because the U.S. supports Israel there aren't people who hate the jews in the US? Do you believe there aren't people in Japan that still hate the US? Hell even your signature line could be interpreted as you hating blacks.
Byrnzie posts ALOT about Israel, yet they don't read as hateful, in fact they're informative. Only through discussions can people begin to see other viewpoints, good or bad, right or wrong. Its up to the individual to take away from any discussion what they want. You seem to be holding your own, so quit trying to make people tiptoe around the discussions. Sensitivity only skews the issues and nothing of relevance gets discuss because we have to stop and break out the Kleenex. Israel's a big boy, big boys play nasty and sometimes they get caught, get over it.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Hey man, maybe you should get over it. I'll call it like I see it. If it seems to me that someone is crossing a line into bigotry I'm not gonna let that slide. And I think that your idea that sensitivity detracts from understanding is absurd. The more provocative and insensitive you are the LESS anyone who doesn't already agree with you will want to take you seriously.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Hey man, maybe you should get over it. I'll call it like I see it. If it seems to me that someone is crossing a line into bigotry I'm not gonna let that slide. And I think that your idea that sensitivity detracts from understanding is absurd. The more provocative and insensitive you are the LESS anyone who doesn't already agree with you will want to take you seriously.
Bigotry and hate is every where, you and no else should let it slide. You, however, seem to think people should see Israel's actions in a different light. You're demanding that people should be more accommodating, understanding and sensitive towards Israel's actions. Why!!!! Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Hey man, maybe you should get over it. I'll call it like I see it. If it seems to me that someone is crossing a line into bigotry I'm not gonna let that slide. And I think that your idea that sensitivity detracts from understanding is absurd. The more provocative and insensitive you are the LESS anyone who doesn't already agree with you will want to take you seriously.
Bigotry and hate is every where, you and no else should let it slide. You, however, seem to think people should see Israel's actions in a different light. You're demanding that people should be more accommodating, understanding and sensitive towards Israel's actions. Why!!!! Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.
And if that's what the anti-Israel crowd on here did, great. To put it bluntly, it ain't like that. You are describing a balanced approach that many on here do not take.
Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.
And if that's what the anti-Israel crowd on here did, great. To put it bluntly, it ain't like that. You are describing a balanced approach that many on here do not take.
what's your definition of a balanced approach and do you have ONE example where anyone on here did not do that?
Seriously, has it ever even occurred to you that you may be wrong?!
No, because my opinions are not what's important here. I'm merely interested in the facts. And the facts speak for themselves. The factual record re: the IP issue is perfectly clear and unambiguous, regardless of whether this inconveniences people like you who like to pretend that it's an overly complicated subject full of nuance, and 2000 year old archeological mysteries.
Report: Syria Ready for Peace, 3-Phase Normalization Plan with Israel
Syria is willing to consider peace and a 3-phase gradual normalization plan with Israel, according to Gabrielle Rifkind of the Oxford Research Group, who met with Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem in December.
In remarks published by the Israeli daily Haaretz, the conflict resolution specialist said that following an Israeli withdrawal from half the territory it holds on the Golan Heights, the two states would declare an end to the state of enmity between them as a first step.
"There could be stages of withdrawal," Muallem reportedly told Rifkind.
"Half of the Golan could lead to an end to enmity; three quarters of the Golan, to a special interest section in the U.S. embassy in Damascus: a full withdrawal would allow a Syrian embassy in Israel," the Syrian FM reportedly stated.
"Syria does not see direct talks taking place through Turkey, but Ankara could play a part," Muallem reportedly added.
However, the British specialist added that Muallem stressed the need for U.S. involvement in talks "to address the security concerns."
"The key issue here is U.S. flights over the Golan in order to provide security," Muallem reportedly said.
Answering a question about Damascus' relation with Iran and Hizbullah in light of such progress in talks with Israel, Muallem reportedly told Rifkind that Syria is a sovereign state and that it would reconsider that relation "only after Israeli withdrawal from Golan."
Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.
And if that's what the anti-Israel crowd on here did, great. To put it bluntly, it ain't like that. You are describing a balanced approach that many on here do not take.
can you define what exactly you mean by anti-Israel? are they the people like me, asking how it is possible that Israel is continually allowed to be above international law, and asking why no body seems to care about the welfare of the ordinary Palestinian people?
any criticisim of Israel seems to be an open invitation to be accused of hatred against jews in general. then of course, to take focus off what is being discussed, comes the mandatory suggestion that there must be some sort of underlying ulterior motive. that's simply not true, there's no ulterior motive. my only aim has always been to defend Palestinian human rights. of course i'm critical of the Government who is daily abusing those very rights.
the mandate of victimhood has expired as far as i'm concerned. no one can take away what happened to the jews in the past, none of us can do fuck all about that and i wish it never happened, but people can learn from it and speak out when they see injustices being committed elsewhere.
jews are capable of evil the same way other people are. stop and think about it for a second. for years they have been outspoken, advocating the unfairness of the fact they were persecuted in the past and never treated equally.
right?
so then, calling them out on their brutal, cruel, illegal and inhumane occupation of the Palestinian people, is in fact granting the Jews that all desired equality they always asked for.
Comments
Both yosi and I have posted TONS of valid counterpoints. Your notion that the "other side" only posts personal attacks because they have no decent argument is delusional, dude.
you still didn't answer me...if you aren't accusing me, per se, why did you say perhaps i am not fully aware of my own motivations and should do some serious soul searching to discover i'm an anti-semite?? that's why i asked you to come out and say it, which you still refuse to do, you have this roundabout way of implying and pretty much outright saying something then hiding and saying you aren't saying that, per se... :roll:
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
It isn't a joke at all. I've lived it. I know. But people on this board don't treat the situation seriously. They approach this topic as if it was some sort of passion play or morality tale where there are clear good guys and bad guys. That just isn't reality. I've tried to have a serious discussion of this issue on this board and gotten nowhere. Given that Israel is discussed here in absolutely unrealistic terms I have absolutely no problem treating this board as a joke with regard to this topic. I'm Jewish. It's how we cope. You don't like gallows humor, that's your problem, not mine.
and defend themselves?
Israel told the world they launched their attack on Gaza in 08 to stop rocket attacks. since the rockets began about 9 years ago, about 30 Israelis have been killed. in the 08 assualt on Gaza, in 3 weeks, 1417 Palestinians were killed. 76% of those people killed were not even combatants. 318 were children
i did a post about that a few weeks ok. i don't think you contributed there.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=122968
just making sure you understand where i am coming from. you can tell me till you are blue in the face that Israel is just trying to defend themselves, and i'll keep telling you that you cannot imprison an entire population because of the actions of a few.
Is that how you justify the ongoing, illegal, settlement expansion?
No jackass, that is actually not how I justify it, because, as I've said over and over to you, I don't support the settlements!
No, you don't support the settlements, but you still think the settlers have a rightful claim to whatever 'parts of the West Bank' they see fit to steal. Nice cozy, self-serving logic you have there, jackass.
i love South Park too. one of my favorite episodes is where cartman makes scott eat his parents, it's called Scot Tenorman must die..,,,
kinda reminds me of you after reading your post. "Yes! Yes! Oh let me taste your tears, Yosi! Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! My-yummy! My-yummy......
but yes. south park rocks.
Cartman: Shut up - you ******* jew!!
Mr. Garrison: Eric, did you just say the 'f word?'
Cartman: Jew??
as opposed to you not coming back to this thread every day? righteo... spare some change?
I've tried to stay away from this thread as much as I can, but I have this strange, almost anthropological interest in seeing what you guys have to say. Here I get to see what's being said out on the fringe of the far left, way out beyond my normal conversational circle.
As for my comment not being nice, you're right, I was mean. But you guys exasperate me. And it isn't as if this thread is such a warm and fuzzy place to begin with. This board is stalked by phantom monstrous storm-trooper Israelis drenched in Palestinian blood. How do you think I feel reading that stuff given that who you guys are actually talking about are my family and friends, who I know to be the farthest thing from the caricatures you guys imagine them to be. I will be nice to those people I respect, and my respect has to be earned. When I see a reasonable post that seems worthy of a serious response I will give it the respect it is due. For everyone else, don't bitch and moan if you can dish it out but can't take it yourself.
The thing is, the whole of the international community supports a two-state settlement along the June 1967 border. The whole of the international community - excluding the U.S. So, who's out on the fringe with this issue? Who are the rejectionists? Once again you try turning reality on it's head.
Or you can simply shove your respect where it belongs, along with your phony accusations of Anti-Semitism.
And as an aside, to anyone else who reads this, seriously stop and consider the tone and manner in which Israel is discussed on this board, and really ask yourselves whether there isn't an ugly undercurrent on this thread, at least with regard to discussion of Israel. It's plain to me, and I think if you're honest and really look at it you'll see it too. And if you do see it, is that really what you want on this site? Do you really want the MT to play host to something potentially so ugly, even if it is somewhat less than blatant?
No I don't see it. What I do see is a lot of people angry at the way Israel is permitted by the U.S to carry out crimes against humanity and war crimes. I expect that seeing as Pearl Jam is an American band and most posters on this political section of the Message Pit are Americans whose tax dollars go towards funding Israel's race war in the Middle East, that they have a legitimate beef with it.
The only ugly thing I see on this board are those people like yourself who will go to any and all lengths to support Israels crimes, and who, when all else fails - such as your constant attempts to turn reality on it's head - will resort to personal attacks and will brand anyone who criticizes those crimes a racist Anti-Semite.
not just british passports steve.
this is an absolute outrage though hardly surprising and i cant see anything other than raised voices that have already been spoken being the most that happens. the israelis have done this kind of thing before. they didnt give a toss what the international community thought then why should they give a toss now? international law doesnt apply to them, you know that.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Why should people have to watch there mannerisms when discussing Israel? Israel has haters, just like any other country and its people. You think just because Germany's leaders acknowledge Israel doesn't mean that there still aren't people that hate the jews in Germany? You think just because the U.S. supports Israel there aren't people who hate the jews in the US? Do you believe there aren't people in Japan that still hate the US? Hell even your signature line could be interpreted as you hating blacks.
Byrnzie posts ALOT about Israel, yet they don't read as hateful, in fact they're informative. Only through discussions can people begin to see other viewpoints, good or bad, right or wrong. Its up to the individual to take away from any discussion what they want. You seem to be holding your own, so quit trying to make people tiptoe around the discussions. Sensitivity only skews the issues and nothing of relevance gets discuss because we have to stop and break out the Kleenex. Israel's a big boy, big boys play nasty and sometimes they get caught, get over it.
Bigotry and hate is every where, you and no else should let it slide. You, however, seem to think people should see Israel's actions in a different light. You're demanding that people should be more accommodating, understanding and sensitive towards Israel's actions. Why!!!! Israel's conduct can, should and will come under the scrutiny of discussion and where sensitivity is justified it will be given, where it is not, it won't.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
And if that's what the anti-Israel crowd on here did, great. To put it bluntly, it ain't like that. You are describing a balanced approach that many on here do not take.
Is that right? Then you'll have no trouble providing some evidence of this then will you?
No, because my opinions are not what's important here. I'm merely interested in the facts. And the facts speak for themselves. The factual record re: the IP issue is perfectly clear and unambiguous, regardless of whether this inconveniences people like you who like to pretend that it's an overly complicated subject full of nuance, and 2000 year old archeological mysteries.
Syria is willing to consider peace and a 3-phase gradual normalization plan with Israel, according to Gabrielle Rifkind of the Oxford Research Group, who met with Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem in December.
In remarks published by the Israeli daily Haaretz, the conflict resolution specialist said that following an Israeli withdrawal from half the territory it holds on the Golan Heights, the two states would declare an end to the state of enmity between them as a first step.
"There could be stages of withdrawal," Muallem reportedly told Rifkind.
"Half of the Golan could lead to an end to enmity; three quarters of the Golan, to a special interest section in the U.S. embassy in Damascus: a full withdrawal would allow a Syrian embassy in Israel," the Syrian FM reportedly stated.
"Syria does not see direct talks taking place through Turkey, but Ankara could play a part," Muallem reportedly added.
However, the British specialist added that Muallem stressed the need for U.S. involvement in talks "to address the security concerns."
"The key issue here is U.S. flights over the Golan in order to provide security," Muallem reportedly said.
Answering a question about Damascus' relation with Iran and Hizbullah in light of such progress in talks with Israel, Muallem reportedly told Rifkind that Syria is a sovereign state and that it would reconsider that relation "only after Israeli withdrawal from Golan."
any criticisim of Israel seems to be an open invitation to be accused of hatred against jews in general. then of course, to take focus off what is being discussed, comes the mandatory suggestion that there must be some sort of underlying ulterior motive. that's simply not true, there's no ulterior motive. my only aim has always been to defend Palestinian human rights. of course i'm critical of the Government who is daily abusing those very rights.
the mandate of victimhood has expired as far as i'm concerned. no one can take away what happened to the jews in the past, none of us can do fuck all about that and i wish it never happened, but people can learn from it and speak out when they see injustices being committed elsewhere.
jews are capable of evil the same way other people are. stop and think about it for a second. for years they have been outspoken, advocating the unfairness of the fact they were persecuted in the past and never treated equally.
right?
so then, calling them out on their brutal, cruel, illegal and inhumane occupation of the Palestinian people, is in fact granting the Jews that all desired equality they always asked for.