Are YOU happy with Obama?

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  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    Something else to consider... which is often ignored... is the Republicans had both houses from 1994 to 2006. Remember the Newt Gingrich 'Contract With America'? The Gingrich/Tom Delay years cover a period that has spanned the September 11th Attacks, both Wars and the failure to regulate the home mortgage and banking/financial institution metldowns.
    I just cannot see one minority Congressman out of 535 Senators and Congressmen being responsible for everything. Someone needs to explain that to me becuase i just don't understand how that works.


    you can pretty much stand in the senate, close your eyes, point and say 'that fucker had some part in it!' and be correct.

    it's not some gay democrat who can be a dick to those he disagrees with, it's not all Bush's or Obama's or Clinton's....it's there's all but zero accountability unless some crime is committed and even then they get away with it a lot of times. they are ineffectual at anything but running their mouths and pointing at the other side, oh and finding ways to waste our tax money and give it to their friends and campaign investors...Delay and his remapping districts and all the other things...it's sad how many of our elected representatives should be in jail

    i remember the contract with america ugh :?

    i was waiting somewhere and they had fox's satellite radio station on and it was feb or march last year, so Obama was in office at the most not even 3 full months and they were going on and on about Obama and the deficit and your kids will owe this much of it and blah blah blah did they forget when Clinton left office we had a surplus and then someone in between Clinton and Obama took us to a record deficit?? really??? they kept throwing Barney Frank's name around, too, and Pelosi....

    if only people were more interested in understanding the other side instead of proving them wrong and putting them down

    I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    mb262200 wrote:
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    Something else to consider... which is often ignored... is the Republicans had both houses from 1994 to 2006. Remember the Newt Gingrich 'Contract With America'? The Gingrich/Tom Delay years cover a period that has spanned the September 11th Attacks, both Wars and the failure to regulate the home mortgage and banking/financial institution metldowns.
    I just cannot see one minority Congressman out of 535 Senators and Congressmen being responsible for everything. Someone needs to explain that to me becuase i just don't understand how that works.


    you can pretty much stand in the senate, close your eyes, point and say 'that fucker had some part in it!' and be correct.

    it's not some gay democrat who can be a dick to those he disagrees with, it's not all Bush's or Obama's or Clinton's....it's there's all but zero accountability unless some crime is committed and even then they get away with it a lot of times. they are ineffectual at anything but running their mouths and pointing at the other side, oh and finding ways to waste our tax money and give it to their friends and campaign investors...Delay and his remapping districts and all the other things...it's sad how many of our elected representatives should be in jail

    i remember the contract with america ugh :?

    i was waiting somewhere and they had fox's satellite radio station on and it was feb or march last year, so Obama was in office at the most not even 3 full months and they were going on and on about Obama and the deficit and your kids will owe this much of it and blah blah blah did they forget when Clinton left office we had a surplus and then someone in between Clinton and Obama took us to a record deficit?? really??? they kept throwing Barney Frank's name around, too, and Pelosi....

    if only people were more interested in understanding the other side instead of proving them wrong and putting them down

    I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.


    certainly
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Starfall
    Starfall Posts: 548
    mb262200 wrote:
    I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.

    As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.

    However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.

    What we've been lacking in this country for the last few years is a loyal opposition - people who would express disagreement, dismay, and even outright anger - at current policies, but once ideas are heard and debated, would eventually come together with everyone so that the country moves forward.

    As liberal as I am, I mourned the passing of such conservative stalwarts as William F. Buckley Jr, and BIll Safire. While I disagreed with them on matters of policy, their sharp intellects, reasoned arguments and willingness to debate properly made them figures I also admired.

    Note that Buckley, for instance, pretty much ordered the expulsion of the radical John Birch Society from the ranks of the Republican party and the mainstream conservative movement, recognizing that their fringe views and radical methods would muddy debate and pull the country backwards.
    I'm glad he's not alive to see them return to polite circles in the conservative movement - they're sponsoring the next Conservative Political Action Conference, for instance. :evil:
    "It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    Starfall wrote:
    mb262200 wrote:
    I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.

    As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.

    However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.

    What we've been lacking in this country for the last few years is a loyal opposition - people who would express disagreement, dismay, and even outright anger - at current policies, but once ideas are heard and debated, would eventually come together with everyone so that the country moves forward.

    As liberal as I am, I mourned the passing of such conservative stalwarts as William F. Buckley Jr, and BIll Safire. While I disagreed with them on matters of policy, their sharp intellects, reasoned arguments and willingness to debate properly made them figures I also admired.

    Note that Buckley, for instance, pretty much ordered the expulsion of the radical John Birch Society from the ranks of the Republican party and the mainstream conservative movement, recognizing that their fringe views and radical methods would muddy debate and pull the country backwards.
    I'm glad he's not alive to see them return to polite circles in the conservative movement - they're sponsoring the next Conservative Political Action Conference, for instance. :evil:

    I think the problem there is that republicans do not feel heard. Therefore leading to tea parties and anger.
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    I know this isn't the place for this question but i've been trying to update my profile by changing my name and adding a picture etc.... Is it not working or am I missing something.
  • Starfall
    Starfall Posts: 548
    mb262200 wrote:
    I think the problem there is that republicans do not feel heard. Therefore leading to tea parties and anger.

    I completely, totally agree. The tea party movement is symptomatic of something much deeper among the people. They've seen their homes lost to foreclosure, their jobs and health care gone, the big banks who screwed over our economy getting bailed out, the endless array of DC insiders getting rich by lobbying and taking bribes, and they get the feeling they're being left out to dry by the very people who they had depended on to keep things going smoothly.

    Is it any wonder they're angry, afraid and frustrated?
    "It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Starfall wrote:
    mb262200 wrote:
    I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.

    As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.

    However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.

    What we've been lacking in this country for the last few years is a loyal opposition - people who would express disagreement, dismay, and even outright anger - at current policies, but once ideas are heard and debated, would eventually come together with everyone so that the country moves forward.

    As liberal as I am, I mourned the passing of such conservative stalwarts as William F. Buckley Jr, and BIll Safire. While I disagreed with them on matters of policy, their sharp intellects, reasoned arguments and willingness to debate properly made them figures I also admired.



    Note that Buckley, for instance, pretty much ordered the expulsion of the radical John Birch Society from the ranks of the Republican party and the mainstream conservative movement, recognizing that their fringe views and radical methods would muddy debate and pull the country backwards.
    I'm glad he's not alive to see them return to polite circles in the conservative movement - they're sponsoring the next Conservative Political Action Conference, for instance. :evil:


    First off it’s Tea Party not teabaggers. Can you tell me what is so wrong with what the Tea Party is doing? In one sentence you say it’s okay to disagree, but them you put people down for disagreeing. An then you go and quote Nancy P. who is full of shit and self serving with that astroturf comment. The million and a half people that showed up for the March in Washington on 9/12 were not sponsored by anyone, they all paid there own way there,there own lodging, there own food. You need to do some research about the Tea Party before you just start quoting politicians that don’t give two cents about the average American. You need to open your eyes and see that 99% of the people in Washington, democrats and republicans alike are the ones that are corporate sponsored.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    mb262200 wrote:
    I know this isn't the place for this question but i've been trying to update my profile by changing my name and adding a picture etc.... Is it not working or am I missing something.

    Try that :?: :?: in the Technical Stuff and Help you may not get an answer here.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
    Apples and oranges sweetie....I was there
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    I made fun of liberals here and was contacted by the mods to stop it. Why is it people can continually refer to people protesting taxes and government waste as "teabaggers"?

    I guess I'm a teabagger too. So be it.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    aerial wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
    Apples and oranges sweetie....I was there

    I was there too, even marched along with the protestors and in no way were there 1. 5 or even close to A million people. What does it matter anyway people are going to inflate their numbers just to escalate their agenda, especially a start up one.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    aerial wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
    Apples and oranges sweetie....I was there
    no its not apples and oranges. my question was do you have a reputable source?? as usual you did not answer me. i was just saying it is easy to inflate numbers for dramatic effect which is what fox did with splicing footage from multiple events together a few months ago...

    so i am to believe you counted 1.5 million people...ok...

    i could not even estimate what 70,000 looks like, which is about what it was when i saw U2, let alone 1.5 million...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Starfall
    Starfall Posts: 548
    aerial wrote:
    First off it’s Tea Party not teabaggers (1). Can you tell me what is so wrong with what the Tea Party is doing? In one sentence you say it’s okay to disagree, but them you put people down for disagreeing(2). An then you go and quote Nancy P. who is full of shit and self serving with that astroturf comment(3). The million and a half people that showed up for the March in Washington on 9/12 were not sponsored by anyone, they all paid there own way there,there own lodging, there own food(4). You need to do some research about the Tea Party before you just start quoting politicians that don’t give two cents about the average American. (5). You need to open your eyes and see that 99% of the people in Washington, democrats and republicans alike are the ones that are corporate sponsored.(6)

    Sorry, but you're quite wrong in several instances:

    1. I reserve the term Tea Party for the event in Boston that helped pave the way for the American Revolutionary War...not to mention there's even infighting among the various groups as to who exactly owns the term "Tea Party". Besides, the term "teabagger" was their own creation. ;)
    2. Let's see.. how about shouting down elected representatives, disrupting town hall meetings, even going so far as to taunt and insult a disabled woman who wanted to speak on health care? Propagating outright lies like "death panels" and putting out images of Dachau at rallies? Yeah, that's productive. :roll:
    3. Nancy P had nothing to do with "astroturf". The term "astroturf" refers to fake grassroots movements. Fake groups like FreedomWorks who...
    4.... organized and help promote the so called 9/12 "Tax Revolt" march on DC. And BTW, if that march were as spontaneous as you claim it was, then it wouldn't have needed ClusterFOX News's own staffer to actively promote and egg on the crowd. Furthermore, that million person attendance you claim? Oh yeah, total fabrication.
    5. As you can see above, I did my own research, including such prominent left wing sites like the National Review and Politico. :lol: Really easy to refute bloviated and ridiculous assertions with a 30 second search on Google nowadays. Try it sometime. ;)
    6. I'd probably quibble with your 99% number, but I'll give you that - there's too much corporate influence in politics nowadays, and unless that's dealt with, we'll always be in an uphill battle to save our democracy.
    "It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
  • TriumphantAngel
    TriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    JB811 wrote:
    I made fun of liberals here and was contacted by the mods to stop it.
    well arent you special. at least you got a warning :)

    which is more than i can say for some others.
  • OnTheEdge
    OnTheEdge Posts: 1,300
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    JB811 wrote:
    I made fun of liberals here and was contacted by the mods to stop it.
    well arent you special. at least you got a warning :)

    which is more than i can say for some others.

    I don't think that was the point he was trying to make.
  • TriumphantAngel
    TriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    Starfall wrote:
    As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.

    However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.
    amen

    i've been saying the same thing for months. patriotism has never been blind allegiance to people or policy. patriotism is loyalty to an ideal - to principle. when i feel that an injustice has been committed, or our ideals or principles have been betrayed, i can't help but to speak out in defense of them. I speak out to preserve what I feel is great. I speak out because of what I love about this country, not out of hate.

    i wish more people would get that.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    mb262200 wrote:
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    JB811 wrote:
    I made fun of liberals here and was contacted by the mods to stop it.
    well arent you special. at least you got a warning :)

    which is more than i can say for some others.

    I don't think that was the point he was trying to make.
    she had a valid point there. care to explain the point he was making? i must have missed it...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • TriumphantAngel
    TriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    mb262200 wrote:
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    JB811 wrote:
    I made fun of liberals here and was contacted by the mods to stop it.
    well arent you special. at least you got a warning :)

    which is more than i can say for some others.

    I don't think that was the point he was trying to make.
    oh i'm sure it wasn't.

    but that's the point i'd like to make if that's ok with you :)
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    Starfall wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    First off it’s Tea Party not teabaggers (1). Can you tell me what is so wrong with what the Tea Party is doing? In one sentence you say it’s okay to disagree, but them you put people down for disagreeing(2). An then you go and quote Nancy P. who is full of shit and self serving with that astroturf comment(3). The million and a half people that showed up for the March in Washington on 9/12 were not sponsored by anyone, they all paid there own way there,there own lodging, there own food(4). You need to do some research about the Tea Party before you just start quoting politicians that don’t give two cents about the average American. (5). You need to open your eyes and see that 99% of the people in Washington, democrats and republicans alike are the ones that are corporate sponsored.(6)

    Sorry, but you're quite wrong in several instances:

    1. I reserve the term Tea Party for the event in Boston that helped pave the way for the American Revolutionary War...not to mention there's even infighting among the various groups as to who exactly owns the term "Tea Party". Besides, the term "teabagger" was their own creation. ;)
    2. Let's see.. how about shouting down elected representatives, disrupting town hall meetings, even going so far as to taunt and insult a disabled woman who wanted to speak on health care? Propagating outright lies like "death panels" and putting out images of Dachau at rallies? Yeah, that's productive. :roll:
    3. Nancy P had nothing to do with "astroturf". The term "astroturf" refers to fake grassroots movements. Fake groups like FreedomWorks who...
    4.... organized and help promote the so called 9/12 "Tax Revolt" march on DC. And BTW, if that march were as spontaneous as you claim it was, then it wouldn't have needed ClusterFOX News's own staffer to actively promote and egg on the crowd. Furthermore, that million person attendance you claim? Oh yeah, total fabrication.
    5. As you can see above, I did my own research, including such prominent left wing sites like the National Review and Politico. :lol: Really easy to refute bloviated and ridiculous assertions with a 30 second search on Google nowadays. Try it sometime. ;)
    6. I'd probably quibble with your 99% number, but I'll give you that - there's too much corporate influence in politics nowadays, and unless that's dealt with, we'll always be in an uphill battle to save our democracy.

    nice post. remind me to not get on your bad side lol...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."

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