GITMO??????

TriumphantAngel wrote:

vedderman71 wrote:

So we are closing Gitmo in a month, what do we do with the guilty???
You want them in your neighborhood? In your home-land?
I believe that's where Both the Bush And the Obama adinistration find themselves. The World's eyes are obviously upon us, what's the next step?

you bet the worlds eyes are on you. the administration has already tried to convince other countries to take some of the detainees. here's a thought, the administration should take responsibility, and clean up their own freaking mess.

if evidence exists (without torture), give them a fair trial, and if convicted , then sentence them to max security prisons.

If there is no evidence, or if they are found innocent, set them free.

vedderman71 wrote:

I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.

vedderman71 wrote:

I knew better than to reason with any of you libs.
My point about Ed enjoying talking politics is that we all don't have to agree but a discussion and dialog can be good. I used to debate a buddy of mine, but we spin ourselves back to the same basic fundamental diffrences.
One man's mind sharpens another man's like metal to metal, sword to sword...bet none of you even get that refernce and the "Source."
The 2 things I referenced were in "defense" the cheap shot from soulsinging who wrote:
"...central indiana full of good, red-blooded, ww2 vet descended, commie-hatin, bible-lovin REAL americans."
I feel no need to defend Who I Am and What I am to some one who has seen the world 11 years less than I have. My point about the shows I've seen was that I was into Pearl Jam while this guy was 12.
So I HAVE seen plenty...and I ask myself as I write this and I'm thinking, "Why the hell do I give fuck what people I have never met and have NO idea who I am or What I am really like?"
Just like I'm tired of defending who I am, I don't think we need to pander all our critics all over the world.
The U.S. can't be run by a suggestion box or opinion polls like Clinton's did.
Doing the Right Thing is Not always the Popular thing. That's what libs and socialist (same thing these days) do Not seem to have the abilty to wrap their brains around.
Pepe your comment about "The Greatest Generation" makes my skin crawl. If you are living in the U.S., let me offer to buy your plane ticket straight the hell outta here. Your lack of appreciation of sacrifices made by previous generations is exactly what is weakening this Country, day by day, hour by hour. Makes me literally sick in the pit of my stomach.
And one last thing Pepe, leave me to feeding the World, you keep on being Pepe....your ignorance on agriculture shows how far most have grown away from the land that feeds us.

mb262200 wrote:

vedderman71 wrote:

I haven't posted in here in a while because I've been busy with Capitalistic endevors of Commerce. It's a really interesting concept Commy should look into. Basically, you do work producing and selling goods, and then...wait for it ...you get PAID for your goods or services; in this case the harvest of soybeans and corn in order for us to feed the World!


Accross Oceans, I can't even begin to imagine what life is like in your part of the world, nor could I even begin to comment on your culture or lifestyle. Having said that, I wouldn't trade where I live with any one, let alone any one in this thread. I sicerely wish you well, and when/if you can make it to the U.S., I invite you to Central Indiana and we can have a good discussion over a beverage.

Pepe your ignorance on anything American was shown in the threads regarding U.S. agriculture. The "newsources" (I am using that term lightly) you site are internet sites with a strong agenda where they have little to no creditability as valid world news. And most Americans with any common sense see the NY Times as a Verrry Slanted liberal rag with a very strong agenda. Common Dreams?? How very socialist of you, I''m sure Commy luvs that site.

And Commy, the next time I give Frenchie any credit is when I support its nude beaches; or else I get more vacation days (they're on holiday about half the year) or when I work on my appreciation of fine wines. The reason why I sited their agriculture trade policies was to reference the "elitest" view of themselves, yet they continue to limit the amount of wheat that flows into Ethopia. AND the French government is shackling its farmers by not allowing them to use genetically modified crops and won't import such grain. And Before you all show your ignorance on this topic just know the FDA, USDA and the EPA have all endorsed these technologies. These advances actually allow growers to use LESS pesticides and chemicals by modifying a protein in the parent seed. Now EU scientists and universities are endorsing these technologies, but the French politians won't reverse their stance.
And the French revolt because their government is a JOKE. The U.S. has revolution" every 2 to 4 years...it's called an Election. Democracy....hmmm yes, you can say it DEMOCRACY.

Gimmesometruth: I truly feel sorry for you having such a poor opinion of the U.S. military. And I won't apologize to any one for taking my grandfather's involvement in WWII so personal. Just to let you all know how your painting with broad strokes paints a VERY Inaccurate picture of the World, let alone the U.S. and our troops. My Grandfather Lied about his age so he could fight for his country. He said he was 18 when in fact he just turned 17. So he DID NOT get drafted, he enlisted. When the U.S. gets attacked, we kind of take it personal. My younger buddy who just got back from Iraq, he ENLISTED after 9/11. He walked away from a great construction job to serve. One of my friend's brother re-upped for a THIRD tour and left his newly-wed wife at home for another year tour because of his Education in communication technology he is needed over in Iraq.

Johnny Sitar: finding thousands of gallons of chemical weapons that Hussien used on his own people isn't enough for ya, is it? Advanced techinical drawing and plans for nuclear developement and enrichment not enough either? You think Hussien's minions were just trying to study up to broaden their horizons? What makes me laugh is that any proof is never enough for libs. Your neivity on whether or not WMD were destroyed or sold baffles me. You think Iraq, Iran, N. Korea and Al Quida exchange receipts on WMD? Iraq kept the UN, the U.S. and the World at it's borders and check points for well over a month. What do you really think they were doing that whole time? Tidying up the place, getting records in order?

Liberals and many in this thread have very interesting way of "estimating" the number of civilian casualties. So I did a little research of my own, thinking at first to go to Fox News, but I knew you all wouldn't appreciate their figures. So what I have here is an excert from a recent interview from NPR:

CONAN: Joining us now is Nicholas Goldberg, a deputy editor at the Los Angeles Times. He works on the editorial pages there. Last month, he wrote a piece called "The Rules of War" and joins us from the studios at the Los Angeles Times. Nice to have you with us today.
Mr. NICHOLAS GOLDBERG (Deputy Editor, Los Angeles Times; Author, "The Rules of War"): Nice to be here.
CONAN: And as we mentioned very briefly, in the past, by comparison with previous wars, Afghanistan, even Iraq, are miniscule.
Mr. GOLDBERG: Oh yeah, they're really quite small. The Brookings Institution estimates that about, you know, 5,000 or a little more civilians have died in the war between 2006 and 2009. If you look at Iraq, that number's closer to 60,000. If you look at Vietnam, the number of civilians who died was in the millions, and in World War II, nearly 40 million non-combatants were killed. World War I, there were about six million non-combatants killed. So you can see that the numbers in Afghanistan, although worrisome, although bad, are much, much, much smaller.

And normally I wouldn't give much credit to the L.A. Times, another liberal rag, but those are the facts they site...
Chew on that...back to harvest my genetically engineered grain!

Ive also heard MSNBC (a liberal news station) saying that Obama has dropped more bombs and killed more cicilians in 9.5 months than Bush has in 3 years. People had so much to say when it was Bush's war...where did they all go?

vedderman71 wrote:

Ok, but at least we don't just turn 'em lose, that's my point.
It would be cheaper to spend the money on the ammo or meds to execute them...Ha, not really!

JordyWordy wrote:

vedderman71 wrote:

I find a bit odd that the biggest critics of US policies are folks from Polland, England and some from Canada.

Is this a joke?

Have you ever spoken to any South Americans? Iraqis? Iranians? Palestinians? Libyans? Haitians? Vietnamese?

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

acrossOceans wrote:

thank you... i made that point sometime earlier..."new found freedoms" my ass... when you've got foreign soldiers in your country, they're "terrorists" in uniform to the locals.... the sooner everyone realizes that the better....

exactly. nobody ever stops to ask themselves if we might be the ones viewed as terrorists. if they did, they would have completely different views on the wars and gitmo.

mb262200 wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

Ive also heard MSNBC (a liberal news station) saying that Obama has dropped more bombs and killed more cicilians in 9.5 months than Bush has in 3 years. People had so much to say when it was Bush's war...where did they all go?

Can you give a single example of a poster in this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) that has changed their stance on the war based on which president is in office? People put way more faith in Obama than I was comfortable seeing, and some gave him more slack than he deserved while he got his bearings in office....but I can't think of anyone who gave him a pass on the wars. Everyone that was against them then, is still against them.

Never ceases to amaze me how people make something so important into a fucking schoolyard squabble over whose daddy is tougher.

They may not have changed there stance on it but they sure aren't as outspoken about it.

mb262200 wrote:

They may not have changed there stance on it but they sure aren't as outspoken about it.

Commy wrote:

you know, i've stated my reasons for voting for obama plenty, and truth is i still don't regret that vote. it came down to a choice between 2 candidates. you can play the third party bullshit game all you want but they are never going to get elected without a fundamental changing of the way parties are financed. they are too much of a longshot and too much is a at stake., we gave the world W when we played that game, when we tried to get nader his 5%.

i learned what not to do when bush was re-elected, its too big. this is empire. what we do here affects the world. so fuck off if i'm wasting a vote on the working family party or the green party again, we have to face a reality.

that we trade a militant capitalist for a militant capitalist every 4 or 8 years. the structure is set/ voting does very little. try to find an example of significant social progress that didn't involve millions of people demanding it? just one fundamental shift in the way power operates, without general upheaval and popular protests and strikes. we're not changing anything fundamental with a vote. and I knew that going in.

so for me the choice was very simple. who did i want to unleash on the world? for all we know we'd be in Iran right now if McCain had been elected, or sanctioning some other third world country that is already struggling to feed its people.

and i'm not happy with how obama has been doing things. he's started out pretending he cared about he majority in the US and has now seems to be catering to the corporate elite. foreign polciy is typical. i'm disappointed in that. but i wasn't fooled.

and i dont' regret my vote. i would have regretted it if we tried to get another nader in and someone even worse got elected.

and i think we unleashed the right guy. who knows how much worse mccain would have been. we sure as hell wouldn't be having a healthcare debate or talking about closing gitmo. and iran seems to be out of the question for now.