Should Everyone Get The Best?

JS81606 wrote:

No!

Being given the the gift of life is a "gift", yet the access to health care is a Right, which is earned. Just because a person walks upright, talks, inhales air, does not allow them to any sort of health care. WTF! Developed countries? The USA is ranked thirty second, WHO stats, behind four third world countries in infant mortality! and we want universal healthcare? ABSURD! This entire current event has left a horrible taste in the mouths of us who truly appreciate the American Way, you reap what you sow, and if a person hasn't earned squat, then it is "my choice" whether or not I donate to their needs. Any disease a person has, is built, nurtured, & rewarded by their own body by choice, not some outside force that magically touched them and relegated them to a world of misery. Whether one insulin is superior to the next is a matter of opinion. As a researcher, I have yet to find scientific relevance to such a statement. As most doctors are told to say "catch phrases" to patients, thereby enforcing the law of fear, which motivates any and all. Be objective.

Air is a need..
food is a need..
shelter is a need...
cell phones...not so much
a car?.... no!
Healthcare for everyone? ....Did they earn it? By being employed? Didn't get a pay check for the hours you logged? What more does this country want? This very band that most here "truly love" would be shocked to learn that these boys earned their place, they were not handed a monthly check and a card to live on a sliver platter. Didn't Mr McCready work in a coffee shop. Eddie logged hours in a gas station. They found their gift and took full advantage of it. End of Story.

from what i understand. even if you have a job, you can be deny health insurance. in reality, it is teh insurance companyies that deside who deserves something. what happens to a person who lived their lives in good health and took care of themselves but they have high blood pressure. they have a great job (therefore they "earned" health care) but teh insurance compnay says sorry but you have high blood pressure we can't approve you. this idea that everyone who doesn't have insurance is their own fault is not correct. you can't blame a person for something which they had no control of.

fife wrote:

norm wrote:

fife wrote:

since so many people ask me questions abotu health care in canada i have a question for health care in america. is it true that even if you can afford insurance, you can be deny coverage becuase of health issues that you already have?

yep...i've been trying to get insurance for 5 years but can't because of "pre-existing conditions"

is there a list of pre-existing conditionals that insurance companies can deny you for or is just up to them?

up to them...basically anything that might hurt their bottom line

And yet inexplicably people seem to think the government can pay for health care CHEAPER than the insurance companies and still insure all people regardless of their pre-existing conditions.

It ain't going to happen people. It's time we got both of those archaic entities - insurance and government - out of the way and took care of this ourselves.

cincybearcat wrote:

That's a bit different than quiting simply to spend more time with your family now isn't it? It's not a choice in my mind if your illness makes working nearly impossible.

Why "hats off to his employer"?

not really...he wants to spend more time with his family before he dies

maybe other people want to spend more time with their families while their kids are young and work less but are forced to work because of health coverage

hats off to his employer for allowing him to do next to no work because of his illness and still maintain his job for the health benefits

Gern Blansten wrote:

fife wrote:

i am starting to believe that either americans are really confident that nothing bad will happen to them or their loved ones or they just don't care abotu others. i am sorry if that sounds rude. i just can't imagne that.

both...

The biggest opponents to health care reform (other than the health care industry) are the know-nothing anti-government right wingers that have not had any experience dealing with problems with our health system. If they were exposed to some of the real issues in our health care system they would change their minds real quick.

That is one benefit of this recession....I think a lot of people have had their eyes opened about our system.

These people bitch about the "Cost" of national health care yet they forget that we are already paying for it....yes my taxes would go up but my out of pocket costs for insurance and medical care would go away as well. Once you get rid of the for profit bureaucracies that are insurance companies you recognize true savings.

without sounding liek an asshole i am very happy that i don't live in american. i love the country but man i don't think i could live there. keep on fighting!

Gern Blansten wrote:

yeah it's probably the only country where you could go bankrupt just from being sick

...hell I've heard that a lot of Canadians avoid coming to the US because they have to buy health insurance just to travel here...I mean hell you could travel to Chicago and get hit by a car and you would have a $100,000 hospital bill easy

fuck that

i travel to teh us alot just becuase in all honest i have met some of the nicest people there. actually, depending on what happens to you in america, you could apply for teh candian government to pay it back. of course you still have to pay up front which is hard for anyone.

i was reading an article in an magazine in canada called Macleans an dit was saying that most bankrupcy that happen in teh us is due to medical. that is just not right.

Gern Blansten wrote:

yeah it's fucked up

actually I believe that we should revolt by canceling our insurance and then just declare bankruptcy if we get in too deep with medical issues

It would give me great pleasure for the medical industry to demand government intervention in a situation like that...as long as we have our pocketbooks open they will suck as much as they can out of our wallets

not a bad idea but you know as much as i do that this will never happen.

Byrnzie wrote:

Health care should be nationalized like in civilized countries[...]

why can we not simply just revert to the Pre-Nixon model where insurance companies had to be run as NON-PROFIT corporations?

At least then we would be honest about the costs involved in such a dillema as how to equitably give every one care without profit.

And by, "at least we would be honest", i mean that because the reason Nixon agreed to switch the US over to a FOR profit care model was because he thought it would LOWER the cost, implying that the cost under NON-profit model insurance was "too" high.

Of course, in a government subsidized system, that cost is hidden by default, making it inherently impossible for anyone to figure out if it really is a "good deal" or not.

Why do we need to nationalize it?

The banking system is fucked up too, should we nationalize IT?

How about food?
I'm tired of the high prices at the grocery store.
Surely the for profit model of food production is the root cause of so many children going hungry in America.
Perhaps we should nationalize the food system too?
And auto-insurance?
I think it is a RIGHT to have auto insurance.
It just isn't fair, or "civilized" to have people that go without auto insurance.
And cell phones!
If you think about the cell phone industry, HOW BARBARIC is it?
I mean, how many millions of americans don't have a 3G phone, and how many millions more don't have one at all. We should nationalize the communications system in this country, because everyone has the RIGHT to a 3G phone (yes, we should nationalize and phase out 1st and 2nd gen phones, so everyone can have the BEST) ... and we should allow everyone the option of having cable, and internet too.

Because it is everyone's RIGHT to have these things.
Just because you have money doesn't mean you should be the only one to have these RIGHTS.

I TRULY do not get the "right to health care" argument.
It sounds nice, and its ultra liberal,
but it just isn't consistent with the basic facts of reality,
which are that shit happens, and no one is entitled to ANYthing at someone elses expense, just because it sounds "humane" or whatever the fuck. Depriving me of MY property, so that you can use it to pay for YOUR wants\needs is a violation of my RIGHTS (real rights, as defined by centuries of western common law.

SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME A RATIONAL ARGUMENT FOR WHY HEALTH CARE IS (OR SHOULD BE) A "RIGHT" AS YOU UNDERSTAND THE MATTER?

I don't want some lame sob story anecdote that is supposed to make me "see the light" about why this is the "right" thing to do, I WANT A FACTUAL \ LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR HEALTHCARE BEING A "RIGHT".

Better yet, explain to me how your taking of my money through backhanded government subsidy is not a violation of MY right to private property?

Are we advocating the phase out of private property?
OH BOY!

Gern Blansten wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

That's a bit different than quiting simply to spend more time with your family now isn't it? It's not a choice in my mind if your illness makes working nearly impossible.

Why "hats off to his employer"?

not really...he wants to spend more time with his family before he dies

maybe other people want to spend more time with their families while their kids are young and work less but are forced to work because of health coverage

hats off to his employer for allowing him to do next to no work because of his illness and still maintain his job for the health benefits

Yeah I think it is a bit different. It's not his choice to not work, his body and illness are making it nearly impossible for him according to what you say.

As far as taking time off to spend with kids, etc...it's a great idea, but why should somebody else have to pay for your health care then? That's the choice I'm talking about. I'm sure the majority of people in the world would rather stay home with their families and not work...should someone else pay their mortgage, car payments, utilities, food bills, and health care costs?

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

The biggest opponents to health care reform (other than the health care industry) are the know-nothing anti-government right wingers that have not had any experience dealing with problems with our health system.

Should auto insurance companies not be allowed to use previous driving history (or better yet, your AGE, or your SEX, or the color of your car) as determining factors in providing your insurance?

Are we trying to say that a 22yr old driver with 5 speeding tickets and 2 wrecks in the last 6 months is ENTITLED to coverage. That it is his RIGHT, and that the insurance company should not be able to DENY him insurance based on his "pre existing conditions"?

I guess i just don't really understand the entitlement mindset.

Insurance is exactly what it says it is.
You are buying protection against potential future occurrences.
If there are conditions that indicate increased risk of certain future occurrences, the insurance provider is obligated BY FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY to charge you more for that insurance, otherwise, that insurance provider is giving you something for nothing.

Should people in flood zones be entitled to the same flood insurance as those who are not?
Should hazard insurance providers not be allowed to disqualify an applicant based on the fact that their home sits smack in the dead center of a known yearly flood zone?
???

What is it that makes health insurance different in any but the most basic (ie. "naive") emotional sense?

Why are right wingers "know nothing" simply for possibly having a better understanding of how the world works?

Again, just because you have fucked up health problems, why should I have to pay for it?
???

right wing "know-nothings" don't understand simple math

health care costs are rising at 20-25% per year
wages/income is flat at 0-2% per year

how long before health care costs > income?

come on man....you are out of the loop