yeah it's probably the only country where you could go bankrupt just from being sick
...hell I've heard that a lot of Canadians avoid coming to the US because they have to buy health insurance just to travel here...I mean hell you could travel to Chicago and get hit by a car and you would have a $100,000 hospital bill easy
fuck that
i travel to teh us alot just becuase in all honest i have met some of the nicest people there. actually, depending on what happens to you in america, you could apply for teh candian government to pay it back. of course you still have to pay up front which is hard for anyone.
i was reading an article in an magazine in canada called Macleans an dit was saying that most bankrupcy that happen in teh us is due to medical. that is just not right.
actually I believe that we should revolt by canceling our insurance and then just declare bankruptcy if we get in too deep with medical issues
It would give me great pleasure for the medical industry to demand government intervention in a situation like that...as long as we have our pocketbooks open they will suck as much as they can out of our wallets
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
actually I believe that we should revolt by canceling our insurance and then just declare bankruptcy if we get in too deep with medical issues
It would give me great pleasure for the medical industry to demand government intervention in a situation like that...as long as we have our pocketbooks open they will suck as much as they can out of our wallets
not a bad idea but you know as much as i do that this will never happen.
actually I believe that we should revolt by canceling our insurance and then just declare bankruptcy if we get in too deep with medical issues
It would give me great pleasure for the medical industry to demand government intervention in a situation like that...as long as we have our pocketbooks open they will suck as much as they can out of our wallets
not a bad idea but you know as much as i do that this will never happen.
I know....Americans are too chickenshit to rebel
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Health care should be nationalized like in civilized countries[...]
why can we not simply just revert to the Pre-Nixon model where insurance companies had to be run as NON-PROFIT corporations?
At least then we would be honest about the costs involved in such a dillema as how to equitably give every one care without profit.
And by, "at least we would be honest", i mean that because the reason Nixon agreed to switch the US over to a FOR profit care model was because he thought it would LOWER the cost, implying that the cost under NON-profit model insurance was "too" high.
Of course, in a government subsidized system, that cost is hidden by default, making it inherently impossible for anyone to figure out if it really is a "good deal" or not.
Why do we need to nationalize it?
The banking system is fucked up too, should we nationalize IT?
How about food?
I'm tired of the high prices at the grocery store.
Surely the for profit model of food production is the root cause of so many children going hungry in America.
Perhaps we should nationalize the food system too?
And auto-insurance?
I think it is a RIGHT to have auto insurance.
It just isn't fair, or "civilized" to have people that go without auto insurance.
And cell phones!
If you think about the cell phone industry, HOW BARBARIC is it?
I mean, how many millions of americans don't have a 3G phone, and how many millions more don't have one at all. We should nationalize the communications system in this country, because everyone has the RIGHT to a 3G phone (yes, we should nationalize and phase out 1st and 2nd gen phones, so everyone can have the BEST) ... and we should allow everyone the option of having cable, and internet too.
Because it is everyone's RIGHT to have these things.
Just because you have money doesn't mean you should be the only one to have these RIGHTS.
I TRULY do not get the "right to health care" argument.
It sounds nice, and its ultra liberal,
but it just isn't consistent with the basic facts of reality,
which are that shit happens, and no one is entitled to ANYthing at someone elses expense, just because it sounds "humane" or whatever the fuck. Depriving me of MY property, so that you can use it to pay for YOUR wants\needs is a violation of my RIGHTS (real rights, as defined by centuries of western common law.
SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME A RATIONAL ARGUMENT FOR WHY HEALTH CARE IS (OR SHOULD BE) A "RIGHT" AS YOU UNDERSTAND THE MATTER?
I don't want some lame sob story anecdote that is supposed to make me "see the light" about why this is the "right" thing to do, I WANT A FACTUAL \ LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR HEALTHCARE BEING A "RIGHT".
Better yet, explain to me how your taking of my money through backhanded government subsidy is not a violation of MY right to private property?
Are we advocating the phase out of private property?
OH BOY!
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The biggest opponents to health care reform (other than the health care industry) are the know-nothing anti-government right wingers that have not had any experience dealing with problems with our health system.
Should auto insurance companies not be allowed to use previous driving history (or better yet, your AGE, or your SEX, or the color of your car) as determining factors in providing your insurance?
Are we trying to say that a 22yr old driver with 5 speeding tickets and 2 wrecks in the last 6 months is ENTITLED to coverage. That it is his RIGHT, and that the insurance company should not be able to DENY him insurance based on his "pre existing conditions"?
I guess i just don't really understand the entitlement mindset.
Insurance is exactly what it says it is.
You are buying protection against potential future occurrences.
If there are conditions that indicate increased risk of certain future occurrences, the insurance provider is obligated BY FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY to charge you more for that insurance, otherwise, that insurance provider is giving you something for nothing.
Should people in flood zones be entitled to the same flood insurance as those who are not?
Should hazard insurance providers not be allowed to disqualify an applicant based on the fact that their home sits smack in the dead center of a known yearly flood zone?
???
What is it that makes health insurance different in any but the most basic (ie. "naive") emotional sense?
Why are right wingers "know nothing" simply for possibly having a better understanding of how the world works?
Again, just because you have fucked up health problems, why should I have to pay for it?
???
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
That's a bit different than quiting simply to spend more time with your family now isn't it? It's not a choice in my mind if your illness makes working nearly impossible.
Why "hats off to his employer"?
not really...he wants to spend more time with his family before he dies
maybe other people want to spend more time with their families while their kids are young and work less but are forced to work because of health coverage
hats off to his employer for allowing him to do next to no work because of his illness and still maintain his job for the health benefits
Yeah I think it is a bit different. It's not his choice to not work, his body and illness are making it nearly impossible for him according to what you say.
As far as taking time off to spend with kids, etc...it's a great idea, but why should somebody else have to pay for your health care then? That's the choice I'm talking about. I'm sure the majority of people in the world would rather stay home with their families and not work...should someone else pay their mortgage, car payments, utilities, food bills, and health care costs?
Health care should be nationalized like in civilized countries[...]
why can we not simply just revert to the Pre-Nixon model where insurance companies had to be run as NON-PROFIT corporations?
At least then we would be honest about the costs involved in such a dillema as how to equitably give every one care without profit.
And by, "at least we would be honest", i mean that because the reason Nixon agreed to switch the US over to a FOR profit care model was because he thought it would LOWER the cost, implying that the cost under NON-profit model insurance was "too" high.
Of course, in a government subsidized system, that cost is hidden by default, making it inherently impossible for anyone to figure out if it really is a "good deal" or not.
Why do we need to nationalize it?
The banking system is fucked up too, should we nationalize IT?
How about food?
I'm tired of the high prices at the grocery store.
Surely the for profit model of food production is the root cause of so many children going hungry in America.
Perhaps we should nationalize the food system too?
And auto-insurance?
I think it is a RIGHT to have auto insurance.
It just isn't fair, or "civilized" to have people that go without auto insurance.
And cell phones!
If you think about the cell phone industry, HOW BARBARIC is it?
I mean, how many millions of americans don't have a 3G phone, and how many millions more don't have one at all. We should nationalize the communications system in this country, because everyone has the RIGHT to a 3G phone (yes, we should nationalize and phase out 1st and 2nd gen phones, so everyone can have the BEST) ... and we should allow everyone the option of having cable, and internet too.
Because it is everyone's RIGHT to have these things.
Just because you have money doesn't mean you should be the only one to have these RIGHTS.
I TRULY do not get the "right to health care" argument.
It sounds nice, and its ultra liberal,
but it just isn't consistent with the basic facts of reality,
which are that shit happens, and no one is entitled to ANYthing at someone elses expense, just because it sounds "humane" or whatever the fuck. Depriving me of MY property, so that you can use it to pay for YOUR wants\needs is a violation of my RIGHTS (real rights, as defined by centuries of western common law.
SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME A RATIONAL ARGUMENT FOR WHY HEALTH CARE IS (OR SHOULD BE) A "RIGHT" AS YOU UNDERSTAND THE MATTER?
I don't want some lame sob story anecdote that is supposed to make me "see the light" about why this is the "right" thing to do, I WANT A FACTUAL \ LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR HEALTHCARE BEING A "RIGHT".
Better yet, explain to me how your taking of my money through backhanded government subsidy is not a violation of MY right to private property?
Are we advocating the phase out of private property?
OH BOY!
to begin i think you are going alittle overboard. i think you can agree that there is a differences between having a cell phone and having health care. if you don't i don't think we have a debate.i have some questions before i answer yoru questions. 1st how do you define a right? secondly, how do you define private property. might soudn liek dumb question but i woul dliek an answer.
The biggest opponents to health care reform (other than the health care industry) are the know-nothing anti-government right wingers that have not had any experience dealing with problems with our health system.
Should auto insurance companies not be allowed to use previous driving history (or better yet, your AGE, or your SEX, or the color of your car) as determining factors in providing your insurance?
Are we trying to say that a 22yr old driver with 5 speeding tickets and 2 wrecks in the last 6 months is ENTITLED to coverage. That it is his RIGHT, and that the insurance company should not be able to DENY him insurance based on his "pre existing conditions"?
I guess i just don't really understand the entitlement mindset.
Insurance is exactly what it says it is.
You are buying protection against potential future occurrences.
If there are conditions that indicate increased risk of certain future occurrences, the insurance provider is obligated BY FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY to charge you more for that insurance, otherwise, that insurance provider is giving you something for nothing.
Should people in flood zones be entitled to the same flood insurance as those who are not?
Should hazard insurance providers not be allowed to disqualify an applicant based on the fact that their home sits smack in the dead center of a known yearly flood zone?
???
What is it that makes health insurance different in any but the most basic (ie. "naive") emotional sense?
Why are right wingers "know nothing" simply for possibly having a better understanding of how the world works?
Again, just because you have fucked up health problems, why should I have to pay for it?
???
right wing "know-nothings" don't understand simple math
health care costs are rising at 20-25% per year
wages/income is flat at 0-2% per year
how long before health care costs > income?
come on man....you are out of the loop
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
...I TRULY do not get the "right to health care" argument.It sounds nice, and its ultra liberal,
but it just isn't consistent with the basic facts of reality,
which are that shit happens, and no one is entitled to ANYthing at someone elses expense, just because it sounds "humane" or whatever the fuck. Depriving me of MY property, so that you can use it to pay for YOUR wants\needs is a violation of my RIGHTS (real rights, as defined by centuries of western common law.
SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME A RATIONAL ARGUMENT FOR WHY HEALTH CARE IS (OR SHOULD BE) A "RIGHT" AS YOU UNDERSTAND THE MATTER?
I don't want some lame sob story anecdote that is supposed to make me "see the light" about why this is the "right" thing to do, I WANT A FACTUAL \ LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR HEALTHCARE BEING A "RIGHT".
Better yet, explain to me how your taking of my money through backhanded government subsidy is not a violation of MY right to private property?
Are we advocating the phase out of private property?
OH BOY!
so what youre saying is that the poor can just die?? please tell me thats not what youre advocating.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.
Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.
Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!
NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.
I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!
I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!
Being given the the gift of life is a "gift", yet the access to health care is a Right, which is earned. Just because a person walks upright, talks, inhales air, does not allow them to any sort of health care.
Healthcare for everyone? ....Did they earn it? By being employed? Didn't get a pay check for the hours you logged? What more does this country want?
Great, then everyone should stop paying taxes.
If nothing is free in this world, then it shouldn't be free for your government either.
The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.
Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.
Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!
NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.
I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!
I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!
Do you have a problem with your tax dollars being spent on illegal/pointless wars abroad? Or is it just when those tax dollars are spent on sick people that you have a problem with it?
The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.
Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.
Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!
NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.
I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!
I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!
...
I have a question or three...
Where is your health care coming from? I mean, i am guessing that to are getting your from your employer, right? I'm getting my insurance from my employer and i love it. But, one pink slip, and my insurance goes ka-put. i'm guessing you are in the same boat as me.
You previously brought up the point about Mike and Eddie working at restaurants and gas stations. I'm guessing, minimum wage jobs at best. Were they getting insurance from their employers... or were they buying insurance on their minimum wage incomes?
Finally, are you mental? I mean, the part where you actually believe that health issues are a choice??? what if you have a kid that is born with a birth defect... that is your choice? What if you are involved in some sort of accident that leads to health problems... that is your choice? What if you inherited a genetic disease... or caught an airborne virus?
Seriously...
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.
Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.
Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!
NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.
I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!
I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!
tis as simple as that is it?? just get a fucking job and stop leeching off the system. who said the poor dont have jobs?? perhaps in your fabulous land of choice the only job theyre qualified for doesnt pay enough to sustain them. perhaps their choice is between whether to pay the bills or buy food for their children. or buy the rent or buy the meds they need in order to continue doing the job theyre doing in order to.... you get the picture dont you??? that is a nice piece of social darwinism youre advocating there.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The initial question asked was, Should Everyone Get The Best (Health Care)?
...
My answer is 'No'... and that is not what Universal Health Care is about.
It is about providing a 'BASIC' coverage for everyone. The current insurance you get from your employer won't be taken away... it will be more coverage with more choices. But, if you lose your job, you'll at least have access to basic health care.
It is like that now. I already have GREAT coverage because i work for a multi-billion dollar corporation. If I want... i can go out and purchase more coverage to cover the 40% deductible I now possess. I can... if i choose to. No one is stopping me. if i lose my job.. I lose my coverage and will have to pay for it one the open market... which i probably cannot afford (at least, to the level I am currently used to getting).
And I really don't mind paying for basic health care for the minimum wage workers that are working in the kitchens where I eat my lunches... in the stores where i buy my beer and in the bars where I go to have a beer and catch a Dodgers game. I know they can't afford to be sick today, so they go to work with that flu bug. If they could get treatment for that... I would benefit, right?
...
And all that 'Fuck the poor' shit I hear... it saddens me to think there are people out there that lack the compassion for their fellow people... their fellow Americans... and place the value of a dollar above the well being of the less fortunate. God Bless America... well, God bless the Americans with jobs... I guess.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.
Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.
Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!
NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.
I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!
I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!
i like you three causes of sickness. lets look at malnutrition. do you believe that peopel go hungray becuase they are too lazy to buy food or is becuase they can't afford food? stress like the idea that ytou don't know if you can keep your apartment becuase you are trying to pay yoru insurance that for soem strange reason is going up even though you have not gone to the doctor in a long time. and please don't give m ethis BS that these peopel just need to get better jobs becuase let be honest, every country needs those peopel working as farmers, waiters, etc.
First, I do not condone treating the poor with disdain. I for one am not that way. Secondly, on 8-26-09, my business, in four hours, managed to generate $13,000.00 for the community table in our city, that is correct, an organisation that donated that amount in cash. It is what I choose to do, and all of my employees are 100% with me on this.
Secondly, what does it mean to come from nothing. Lend me your ear, a set of eyes, and I'll show you poverty in the great US of A, for that is where I started and busted my ass to be the successful person I am. I thank every individual I employ daily, I thank all those who trusted in me, I thank all those who challenged me to better myself. Family excluded!
Thirdly, as for the three casues of sickness in the world, they hold true. I have more research to support that than I care to disseminate here with a bunch of yahoo's who whine because the world acts according to the laws that govern the world. Shit happens!
Lastly, I do not see myself above, greater than, important as....I'm just another man who lives, takes up my 2x2 personal space and do what I can for my fellow man. Healt insurance is not one.
I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.
I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.
I respect your opinion ... Ultimately, it comes down to what is better for JS81606 ... it's the divide that separates most of us ... is it better for all those around us to be healthy or does it matter that I am just healthy?
now, granted i am one that believes that this current corrupt political system would not be able to deliver universal health care to the general populace - i do however believe in the principle that if everyone was less sick - I would benefit from it ...
whether you like it or not - you are part of a larger society ... your success has partially come because of programs meant to benefit all ... if a segment of the population cannot afford basic health care - you will suffer from it in other ways ...
First, I do not condone treating the poor with disdain. I for one am not that way. Secondly, on 8-26-09, my business, in four hours, managed to generate $13,000.00 for the community table in our city, that is correct, an organisation that donated that amount in cash. It is what I choose to do, and all of my employees are 100% with me on this.
Secondly, what does it mean to come from nothing. Lend me your ear, a set of eyes, and I'll show you poverty in the great US of A, for that is where I started and busted my ass to be the successful person I am. I thank every individual I employ daily, I thank all those who trusted in me, I thank all those who challenged me to better myself. Family excluded!
Thirdly, as for the three casues of sickness in the world, they hold true. I have more research to support that than I care to disseminate here with a bunch of yahoo's who whine because the world acts according to the laws that govern the world. Shit happens!
Lastly, I do not see myself above, greater than, important as....I'm just another man who lives, takes up my 2x2 personal space and do what I can for my fellow man. Healt insurance is not one.
I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.
i don't think you are heartless. i just believe that a person job should not determine if they should have health coverage. i personally believe that we need people to work the jobs that are low paying because we need those things. if everyone had a job where there was health coverage than no you would not need government health care but the sad truth is that not everyoen has those jobs and they should not be screwed becuase of that.
First, I do not condone treating the poor with disdain. I for one am not that way. Secondly, on 8-26-09, my business, in four hours, managed to generate $13,000.00 for the community table in our city, that is correct, an organisation that donated that amount in cash. It is what I choose to do, and all of my employees are 100% with me on this.
Secondly, what does it mean to come from nothing. Lend me your ear, a set of eyes, and I'll show you poverty in the great US of A, for that is where I started and busted my ass to be the successful person I am. I thank every individual I employ daily, I thank all those who trusted in me, I thank all those who challenged me to better myself. Family excluded!
Thirdly, as for the three casues of sickness in the world, they hold true. I have more research to support that than I care to disseminate here with a bunch of yahoo's who whine because the world acts according to the laws that govern the world. Shit happens!
Lastly, I do not see myself above, greater than, important as....I'm just another man who lives, takes up my 2x2 personal space and do what I can for my fellow man. Healt insurance is not one.
I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.
dude...your quote was "get a job and don't suck off the system" regarding the poor
you tell me where these jobs are....some cities in Ohio have like 30% unemployment....is it all because of lazyness or is it because there are no jobs?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I have looked around this fine country, have seen the results of our healthcare. Obesity! Kids turned into junkies due to Ritalin! The average senior citizen taking 10, yes 10 drugs perday! My point, if the best is that, then no thanks! Big pharma and the docs have monopolised this system, and to feed fuel to it would be an utter travesty. If I had the answer for the less priveliged, the poor, the unemployed, it would be........find anything to make yourself better than what you are or were doing. Sounds simple, I know it isn't, yet it is possible. Shit, let's be serious, who would of thought five young boys could do what they have managed to do and become. I just feel, very strongly, it is in all of us to do great things, and when we don't, we only let ourselves down and that is the hardest part to live with. I do not live in the government sector of aid or assistance, I just pay handsomely into it. As I watch my earnings go towards programs that only deteriorate the current situation, then yes, I get alarmed and agitated.
To ramble on, an employee at our business, dx with diabetes. I sent him to a doc, unconventional one at that in Houston Tx, and low and behold, this employee found out if he changed diet, exercise, and did a strict nutritional program, he was good to go. Five years later, this man continues to do well. Yes I supported, helped pay for, and continue to pay for some of those services. I would more than be happy to contribute to that type of care for people, but meds and unwarranted surgeries and therapies that have proven for the last 15-20 years to be repeat failures, I'll spend my $ elsewhere. That is just me.
As for Mr Ohio, sorry to hear about your situation, but seriously, having access to a system that only perpetuates sickness and disease? I won't do it! AGAIN, NO! Everyone does not deserve the best! Yet we do deserve better....of what we currently have. I wish I could be more concise. Not my nature tho!
To ramble on, an employee at our business, dx with diabetes. I sent him to a doc, unconventional one at that in Houston Tx, and low and behold, this employee found out if he changed diet, exercise, and did a strict nutritional program, he was good to go. Five years later, this man continues to do well. Yes I supported, helped pay for, and continue to pay for some of those services. I would more than be happy to contribute to that type of care for people, but meds and unwarranted surgeries and therapies that have proven for the last 15-20 years to be repeat failures, I'll spend my $ elsewhere. That is just me.
That's all very lovely of you, and i'm sure you will understand that he/she would've had type 2 diabetes, which on some people can be controlled by diet and change of lifestyle and symptons can even disappear.....
People with type 1 (juvenile diabetes), do not have that option. They get it, they are stuck with it for life. You can send them as much as you like to your unconventional doc in Houston, and all the changes in diet and excercise will do jack shit. That kid has diabetes for life.
The initial question asked was, Should Everyone Get The Best (Health Care)?
...
My answer is 'No'... and that is not what Universal Health Care is about.
It is about providing a 'BASIC' coverage for everyone. The current insurance you get from your employer won't be taken away... it will be more coverage with more choices. But, if you lose your job, you'll at least have access to basic health care.
It is like that now. I already have GREAT coverage because i work for a multi-billion dollar corporation. If I want... i can go out and purchase more coverage to cover the 40% deductible I now possess. I can... if i choose to. No one is stopping me. if i lose my job.. I lose my coverage and will have to pay for it one the open market... which i probably cannot afford (at least, to the level I am currently used to getting).
And I really don't mind paying for basic health care for the minimum wage workers that are working in the kitchens where I eat my lunches... in the stores where i buy my beer and in the bars where I go to have a beer and catch a Dodgers game. I know they can't afford to be sick today, so they go to work with that flu bug. If they could get treatment for that... I would benefit, right?
...
And all that 'Fuck the poor' shit I hear... it saddens me to think there are people out there that lack the compassion for their fellow people... their fellow Americans... and place the value of a dollar above the well being of the less fortunate. God Bless America... well, God bless the Americans with jobs... I guess.
I am on a not great income myself, even though I work for the NHS. Every pay cheque I have includes deductions for tax and national insurance. My mother on the other hand, has worked very little over the years, she's brought 3 kids up, looked after her husband etc. She now has Underactive thyroid, diabetes, IBS, arthritus and various other health issues, she's probably on more than 10 tablets/day. I don't mind that my contributions go to help her, or to the unemployed single mother down the road.
Everyone deserves health care, food, and shelter, these are necessary to live. Anything else is a bonus and as such should not be paid for by others.
I'm not great on facts and figures, I can't give you a long list of pro's for a national health service. But all I know is that I've worked hard all my life, my total unemployed time over 23 years is probably only 4 weeks. I did have maternity leave for 14 weeks when I had my son, I've also had some sick leave over the years. I've done loads of shitty jobs and I'm probably doing a job now that not a lot of people would want to. I don't have a lavish lifestyle and I'm not extravagant but if it hadn't been for a national health system in this country I would probably have been dead at some point in the last year. If I'd have had to pay for all the surgery, treatment, hospital bills, medication myself I wouldn't have been able to do it. I know this is all subjective and I admit I'm not the best person at being objective, but surely some kind of free health service is essential in every country, whether that is the 'mighty west' or a subsistance country.
I'm glad you've done well for yourself, and also pleased the band has progressed on from working in gas stations etc. But I have no doubt that you have reaped the benefits in ways that people like me will never know whether thats possession or experiences, so don't begrudge those who have not been as fortunate as you for whatever reason. People on low incomes or unemployed are still people.
Comments
i travel to teh us alot just becuase in all honest i have met some of the nicest people there. actually, depending on what happens to you in america, you could apply for teh candian government to pay it back. of course you still have to pay up front which is hard for anyone.
i was reading an article in an magazine in canada called Macleans an dit was saying that most bankrupcy that happen in teh us is due to medical. that is just not right.
actually I believe that we should revolt by canceling our insurance and then just declare bankruptcy if we get in too deep with medical issues
It would give me great pleasure for the medical industry to demand government intervention in a situation like that...as long as we have our pocketbooks open they will suck as much as they can out of our wallets
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
not a bad idea but you know as much as i do that this will never happen.
I know....Americans are too chickenshit to rebel
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
why can we not simply just revert to the Pre-Nixon model where insurance companies had to be run as NON-PROFIT corporations?
At least then we would be honest about the costs involved in such a dillema as how to equitably give every one care without profit.
And by, "at least we would be honest", i mean that because the reason Nixon agreed to switch the US over to a FOR profit care model was because he thought it would LOWER the cost, implying that the cost under NON-profit model insurance was "too" high.
Of course, in a government subsidized system, that cost is hidden by default, making it inherently impossible for anyone to figure out if it really is a "good deal" or not.
Why do we need to nationalize it?
The banking system is fucked up too, should we nationalize IT?
How about food?
I'm tired of the high prices at the grocery store.
Surely the for profit model of food production is the root cause of so many children going hungry in America.
Perhaps we should nationalize the food system too?
And auto-insurance?
I think it is a RIGHT to have auto insurance.
It just isn't fair, or "civilized" to have people that go without auto insurance.
And cell phones!
If you think about the cell phone industry, HOW BARBARIC is it?
I mean, how many millions of americans don't have a 3G phone, and how many millions more don't have one at all. We should nationalize the communications system in this country, because everyone has the RIGHT to a 3G phone (yes, we should nationalize and phase out 1st and 2nd gen phones, so everyone can have the BEST) ... and we should allow everyone the option of having cable, and internet too.
Because it is everyone's RIGHT to have these things.
Just because you have money doesn't mean you should be the only one to have these RIGHTS.
I TRULY do not get the "right to health care" argument.
It sounds nice, and its ultra liberal,
but it just isn't consistent with the basic facts of reality,
which are that shit happens, and no one is entitled to ANYthing at someone elses expense, just because it sounds "humane" or whatever the fuck. Depriving me of MY property, so that you can use it to pay for YOUR wants\needs is a violation of my RIGHTS (real rights, as defined by centuries of western common law.
SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME A RATIONAL ARGUMENT FOR WHY HEALTH CARE IS (OR SHOULD BE) A "RIGHT" AS YOU UNDERSTAND THE MATTER?
I don't want some lame sob story anecdote that is supposed to make me "see the light" about why this is the "right" thing to do, I WANT A FACTUAL \ LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR HEALTHCARE BEING A "RIGHT".
Better yet, explain to me how your taking of my money through backhanded government subsidy is not a violation of MY right to private property?
Are we advocating the phase out of private property?
OH BOY!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Should auto insurance companies not be allowed to use previous driving history (or better yet, your AGE, or your SEX, or the color of your car) as determining factors in providing your insurance?
Are we trying to say that a 22yr old driver with 5 speeding tickets and 2 wrecks in the last 6 months is ENTITLED to coverage. That it is his RIGHT, and that the insurance company should not be able to DENY him insurance based on his "pre existing conditions"?
I guess i just don't really understand the entitlement mindset.
Insurance is exactly what it says it is.
You are buying protection against potential future occurrences.
If there are conditions that indicate increased risk of certain future occurrences, the insurance provider is obligated BY FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY to charge you more for that insurance, otherwise, that insurance provider is giving you something for nothing.
Should people in flood zones be entitled to the same flood insurance as those who are not?
Should hazard insurance providers not be allowed to disqualify an applicant based on the fact that their home sits smack in the dead center of a known yearly flood zone?
???
What is it that makes health insurance different in any but the most basic (ie. "naive") emotional sense?
Why are right wingers "know nothing" simply for possibly having a better understanding of how the world works?
Again, just because you have fucked up health problems, why should I have to pay for it?
???
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Yeah I think it is a bit different. It's not his choice to not work, his body and illness are making it nearly impossible for him according to what you say.
As far as taking time off to spend with kids, etc...it's a great idea, but why should somebody else have to pay for your health care then? That's the choice I'm talking about. I'm sure the majority of people in the world would rather stay home with their families and not work...should someone else pay their mortgage, car payments, utilities, food bills, and health care costs?
to begin i think you are going alittle overboard. i think you can agree that there is a differences between having a cell phone and having health care. if you don't i don't think we have a debate.i have some questions before i answer yoru questions. 1st how do you define a right? secondly, how do you define private property. might soudn liek dumb question but i woul dliek an answer.
right wing "know-nothings" don't understand simple math
health care costs are rising at 20-25% per year
wages/income is flat at 0-2% per year
how long before health care costs > income?
come on man....you are out of the loop
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
so what youre saying is that the poor can just die?? please tell me thats not what youre advocating.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.
Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.
Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!
NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.
I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!
I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!
Great, then everyone should stop paying taxes.
If nothing is free in this world, then it shouldn't be free for your government either.
Do you have a problem with your tax dollars being spent on illegal/pointless wars abroad? Or is it just when those tax dollars are spent on sick people that you have a problem with it?
I have a question or three...
Where is your health care coming from? I mean, i am guessing that to are getting your from your employer, right? I'm getting my insurance from my employer and i love it. But, one pink slip, and my insurance goes ka-put. i'm guessing you are in the same boat as me.
You previously brought up the point about Mike and Eddie working at restaurants and gas stations. I'm guessing, minimum wage jobs at best. Were they getting insurance from their employers... or were they buying insurance on their minimum wage incomes?
Finally, are you mental? I mean, the part where you actually believe that health issues are a choice??? what if you have a kid that is born with a birth defect... that is your choice? What if you are involved in some sort of accident that leads to health problems... that is your choice? What if you inherited a genetic disease... or caught an airborne virus?
Seriously...
Hail, Hail!!!
tis as simple as that is it?? just get a fucking job and stop leeching off the system. who said the poor dont have jobs?? perhaps in your fabulous land of choice the only job theyre qualified for doesnt pay enough to sustain them. perhaps their choice is between whether to pay the bills or buy food for their children. or buy the rent or buy the meds they need in order to continue doing the job theyre doing in order to.... you get the picture dont you??? that is a nice piece of social darwinism youre advocating there.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
...
My answer is 'No'... and that is not what Universal Health Care is about.
It is about providing a 'BASIC' coverage for everyone. The current insurance you get from your employer won't be taken away... it will be more coverage with more choices. But, if you lose your job, you'll at least have access to basic health care.
It is like that now. I already have GREAT coverage because i work for a multi-billion dollar corporation. If I want... i can go out and purchase more coverage to cover the 40% deductible I now possess. I can... if i choose to. No one is stopping me. if i lose my job.. I lose my coverage and will have to pay for it one the open market... which i probably cannot afford (at least, to the level I am currently used to getting).
And I really don't mind paying for basic health care for the minimum wage workers that are working in the kitchens where I eat my lunches... in the stores where i buy my beer and in the bars where I go to have a beer and catch a Dodgers game. I know they can't afford to be sick today, so they go to work with that flu bug. If they could get treatment for that... I would benefit, right?
...
And all that 'Fuck the poor' shit I hear... it saddens me to think there are people out there that lack the compassion for their fellow people... their fellow Americans... and place the value of a dollar above the well being of the less fortunate. God Bless America... well, God bless the Americans with jobs... I guess.
Hail, Hail!!!
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Neither is the NHS. One is a personal investment, the other is an available service paid for with the income tax of the population. What's your point?
i like you three causes of sickness. lets look at malnutrition. do you believe that peopel go hungray becuase they are too lazy to buy food or is becuase they can't afford food? stress like the idea that ytou don't know if you can keep your apartment becuase you are trying to pay yoru insurance that for soem strange reason is going up even though you have not gone to the doctor in a long time. and please don't give m ethis BS that these peopel just need to get better jobs becuase let be honest, every country needs those peopel working as farmers, waiters, etc.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
HA no i am on a blackberry, hard to type on these things
Secondly, what does it mean to come from nothing. Lend me your ear, a set of eyes, and I'll show you poverty in the great US of A, for that is where I started and busted my ass to be the successful person I am. I thank every individual I employ daily, I thank all those who trusted in me, I thank all those who challenged me to better myself. Family excluded!
Thirdly, as for the three casues of sickness in the world, they hold true. I have more research to support that than I care to disseminate here with a bunch of yahoo's who whine because the world acts according to the laws that govern the world. Shit happens!
Lastly, I do not see myself above, greater than, important as....I'm just another man who lives, takes up my 2x2 personal space and do what I can for my fellow man. Healt insurance is not one.
I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.
I respect your opinion ... Ultimately, it comes down to what is better for JS81606 ... it's the divide that separates most of us ... is it better for all those around us to be healthy or does it matter that I am just healthy?
now, granted i am one that believes that this current corrupt political system would not be able to deliver universal health care to the general populace - i do however believe in the principle that if everyone was less sick - I would benefit from it ...
whether you like it or not - you are part of a larger society ... your success has partially come because of programs meant to benefit all ... if a segment of the population cannot afford basic health care - you will suffer from it in other ways ...
i don't think you are heartless. i just believe that a person job should not determine if they should have health coverage. i personally believe that we need people to work the jobs that are low paying because we need those things. if everyone had a job where there was health coverage than no you would not need government health care but the sad truth is that not everyoen has those jobs and they should not be screwed becuase of that.
dude...your quote was "get a job and don't suck off the system" regarding the poor
you tell me where these jobs are....some cities in Ohio have like 30% unemployment....is it all because of lazyness or is it because there are no jobs?
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I have looked around this fine country, have seen the results of our healthcare. Obesity! Kids turned into junkies due to Ritalin! The average senior citizen taking 10, yes 10 drugs perday! My point, if the best is that, then no thanks! Big pharma and the docs have monopolised this system, and to feed fuel to it would be an utter travesty. If I had the answer for the less priveliged, the poor, the unemployed, it would be........find anything to make yourself better than what you are or were doing. Sounds simple, I know it isn't, yet it is possible. Shit, let's be serious, who would of thought five young boys could do what they have managed to do and become. I just feel, very strongly, it is in all of us to do great things, and when we don't, we only let ourselves down and that is the hardest part to live with. I do not live in the government sector of aid or assistance, I just pay handsomely into it. As I watch my earnings go towards programs that only deteriorate the current situation, then yes, I get alarmed and agitated.
To ramble on, an employee at our business, dx with diabetes. I sent him to a doc, unconventional one at that in Houston Tx, and low and behold, this employee found out if he changed diet, exercise, and did a strict nutritional program, he was good to go. Five years later, this man continues to do well. Yes I supported, helped pay for, and continue to pay for some of those services. I would more than be happy to contribute to that type of care for people, but meds and unwarranted surgeries and therapies that have proven for the last 15-20 years to be repeat failures, I'll spend my $ elsewhere. That is just me.
As for Mr Ohio, sorry to hear about your situation, but seriously, having access to a system that only perpetuates sickness and disease? I won't do it! AGAIN, NO! Everyone does not deserve the best! Yet we do deserve better....of what we currently have. I wish I could be more concise. Not my nature tho!
People with type 1 (juvenile diabetes), do not have that option. They get it, they are stuck with it for life. You can send them as much as you like to your unconventional doc in Houston, and all the changes in diet and excercise will do jack shit. That kid has diabetes for life.
I am on a not great income myself, even though I work for the NHS. Every pay cheque I have includes deductions for tax and national insurance. My mother on the other hand, has worked very little over the years, she's brought 3 kids up, looked after her husband etc. She now has Underactive thyroid, diabetes, IBS, arthritus and various other health issues, she's probably on more than 10 tablets/day. I don't mind that my contributions go to help her, or to the unemployed single mother down the road.
Everyone deserves health care, food, and shelter, these are necessary to live. Anything else is a bonus and as such should not be paid for by others.
I'm not great on facts and figures, I can't give you a long list of pro's for a national health service. But all I know is that I've worked hard all my life, my total unemployed time over 23 years is probably only 4 weeks. I did have maternity leave for 14 weeks when I had my son, I've also had some sick leave over the years. I've done loads of shitty jobs and I'm probably doing a job now that not a lot of people would want to. I don't have a lavish lifestyle and I'm not extravagant but if it hadn't been for a national health system in this country I would probably have been dead at some point in the last year. If I'd have had to pay for all the surgery, treatment, hospital bills, medication myself I wouldn't have been able to do it. I know this is all subjective and I admit I'm not the best person at being objective, but surely some kind of free health service is essential in every country, whether that is the 'mighty west' or a subsistance country.
I'm glad you've done well for yourself, and also pleased the band has progressed on from working in gas stations etc. But I have no doubt that you have reaped the benefits in ways that people like me will never know whether thats possession or experiences, so don't begrudge those who have not been as fortunate as you for whatever reason. People on low incomes or unemployed are still people.