Should Everyone Get The Best?

JS81606

Again NO!

The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.

Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.

Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!

NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.

I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!

I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!

Byrnzie

JS81606 wrote:

No!

Being given the the gift of life is a "gift", yet the access to health care is a Right, which is earned. Just because a person walks upright, talks, inhales air, does not allow them to any sort of health care.

Healthcare for everyone? ....Did they earn it? By being employed? Didn't get a pay check for the hours you logged? What more does this country want?

Great, then everyone should stop paying taxes.

If nothing is free in this world, then it shouldn't be free for your government either.

Byrnzie

JS81606 wrote:

Again NO!

The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.

Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.

Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!

NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.

I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!

I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!

Do you have a problem with your tax dollars being spent on illegal/pointless wars abroad? Or is it just when those tax dollars are spent on sick people that you have a problem with it?

Cosmo

JS81606 wrote:

Again NO!

The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.

Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.

Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!

NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.

I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!

I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!

...
I have a question or three...
Where is your health care coming from? I mean, i am guessing that to are getting your from your employer, right? I'm getting my insurance from my employer and i love it. But, one pink slip, and my insurance goes ka-put. i'm guessing you are in the same boat as me.
You previously brought up the point about Mike and Eddie working at restaurants and gas stations. I'm guessing, minimum wage jobs at best. Were they getting insurance from their employers... or were they buying insurance on their minimum wage incomes?
Finally, are you mental? I mean, the part where you actually believe that health issues are a choice??? what if you have a kid that is born with a birth defect... that is your choice? What if you are involved in some sort of accident that leads to health problems... that is your choice? What if you inherited a genetic disease... or caught an airborne virus?
Seriously...

catefrances

JS81606 wrote:

Again NO!

The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.

Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.

Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!

NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.

I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!

I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!

tis as simple as that is it?? just get a fucking job and stop leeching off the system. who said the poor dont have jobs?? perhaps in your fabulous land of choice the only job theyre qualified for doesnt pay enough to sustain them. perhaps their choice is between whether to pay the bills or buy food for their children. or buy the rent or buy the meds they need in order to continue doing the job theyre doing in order to.... you get the picture dont you??? that is a nice piece of social darwinism youre advocating there.

Cosmo

The initial question asked was, Should Everyone Get The Best (Health Care)?
...
My answer is 'No'... and that is not what Universal Health Care is about.
It is about providing a 'BASIC' coverage for everyone. The current insurance you get from your employer won't be taken away... it will be more coverage with more choices. But, if you lose your job, you'll at least have access to basic health care.
It is like that now. I already have GREAT coverage because i work for a multi-billion dollar corporation. If I want... i can go out and purchase more coverage to cover the 40% deductible I now possess. I can... if i choose to. No one is stopping me. if i lose my job.. I lose my coverage and will have to pay for it one the open market... which i probably cannot afford (at least, to the level I am currently used to getting).
And I really don't mind paying for basic health care for the minimum wage workers that are working in the kitchens where I eat my lunches... in the stores where i buy my beer and in the bars where I go to have a beer and catch a Dodgers game. I know they can't afford to be sick today, so they go to work with that flu bug. If they could get treatment for that... I would benefit, right?
...
And all that 'Fuck the poor' shit I hear... it saddens me to think there are people out there that lack the compassion for their fellow people... their fellow Americans... and place the value of a dollar above the well being of the less fortunate. God Bless America... well, God bless the Americans with jobs... I guess.

know1

Health insurance is not health care.

Byrnzie

know1 wrote:

Health insurance is not health care.

Neither is the NHS. One is a personal investment, the other is an available service paid for with the income tax of the population. What's your point?

fife

JS81606 wrote:

Again NO!

The poor need not die, just get a job and support the system instead of sucking off it.

Health is a choice via a habit. This country needs to put the fork down, stop swigging on the bottle, quit with the cancer sticks and avoid the script pad.

Top three causes of sickness: malnutrition, stress, and toxins. Welcome to the US of A!

NH is a joke and those who want it, move away to those countries that offer it and watch as they rebel against you existence because you suck, literally off the system.

I recall Stone, God he is Awesome!, say they went with their own release for $5.00 per record instead of $1.50. Tell me that is not capitalism. Anyone can have a liberal view, but when their pocket it being squeezed for someone else, they complain and moan. Oh yeah....moaning!

I for one love this country. Love freedom of choice, and help those I feel I need to help. Let this country do for itself what it can, not more legislation!

i like you three causes of sickness. lets look at malnutrition. do you believe that peopel go hungray becuase they are too lazy to buy food or is becuase they can't afford food? stress like the idea that ytou don't know if you can keep your apartment becuase you are trying to pay yoru insurance that for soem strange reason is going up even though you have not gone to the doctor in a long time. and please don't give m ethis BS that these peopel just need to get better jobs becuase let be honest, every country needs those peopel working as farmers, waiters, etc.

Gern Blansten

Do they teach spelling in Canada?

fife

Gern Blansten wrote:

Do they teach spelling in Canada?

HA no i am on a blackberry, hard to type on these things

JS81606

First, I do not condone treating the poor with disdain. I for one am not that way. Secondly, on 8-26-09, my business, in four hours, managed to generate $13,000.00 for the community table in our city, that is correct, an organisation that donated that amount in cash. It is what I choose to do, and all of my employees are 100% with me on this.

Secondly, what does it mean to come from nothing. Lend me your ear, a set of eyes, and I'll show you poverty in the great US of A, for that is where I started and busted my ass to be the successful person I am. I thank every individual I employ daily, I thank all those who trusted in me, I thank all those who challenged me to better myself. Family excluded!

Thirdly, as for the three casues of sickness in the world, they hold true. I have more research to support that than I care to disseminate here with a bunch of yahoo's who whine because the world acts according to the laws that govern the world. Shit happens!

Lastly, I do not see myself above, greater than, important as....I'm just another man who lives, takes up my 2x2 personal space and do what I can for my fellow man. Healt insurance is not one.


I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.

polaris_x

JS81606 wrote:

I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.

I respect your opinion ... Ultimately, it comes down to what is better for JS81606 ... it's the divide that separates most of us ... is it better for all those around us to be healthy or does it matter that I am just healthy?

now, granted i am one that believes that this current corrupt political system would not be able to deliver universal health care to the general populace - i do however believe in the principle that if everyone was less sick - I would benefit from it ...

whether you like it or not - you are part of a larger society ... your success has partially come because of programs meant to benefit all ... if a segment of the population cannot afford basic health care - you will suffer from it in other ways ...

fife

JS81606 wrote:

First, I do not condone treating the poor with disdain. I for one am not that way. Secondly, on 8-26-09, my business, in four hours, managed to generate $13,000.00 for the community table in our city, that is correct, an organisation that donated that amount in cash. It is what I choose to do, and all of my employees are 100% with me on this.

Secondly, what does it mean to come from nothing. Lend me your ear, a set of eyes, and I'll show you poverty in the great US of A, for that is where I started and busted my ass to be the successful person I am. I thank every individual I employ daily, I thank all those who trusted in me, I thank all those who challenged me to better myself. Family excluded!

Thirdly, as for the three casues of sickness in the world, they hold true. I have more research to support that than I care to disseminate here with a bunch of yahoo's who whine because the world acts according to the laws that govern the world. Shit happens!

Lastly, I do not see myself above, greater than, important as....I'm just another man who lives, takes up my 2x2 personal space and do what I can for my fellow man. Healt insurance is not one.


I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.

i don't think you are heartless. i just believe that a person job should not determine if they should have health coverage. i personally believe that we need people to work the jobs that are low paying because we need those things. if everyone had a job where there was health coverage than no you would not need government health care but the sad truth is that not everyoen has those jobs and they should not be screwed becuase of that.

Gern Blansten

JS81606 wrote:

First, I do not condone treating the poor with disdain. I for one am not that way. Secondly, on 8-26-09, my business, in four hours, managed to generate $13,000.00 for the community table in our city, that is correct, an organisation that donated that amount in cash. It is what I choose to do, and all of my employees are 100% with me on this.

Secondly, what does it mean to come from nothing. Lend me your ear, a set of eyes, and I'll show you poverty in the great US of A, for that is where I started and busted my ass to be the successful person I am. I thank every individual I employ daily, I thank all those who trusted in me, I thank all those who challenged me to better myself. Family excluded!

Thirdly, as for the three casues of sickness in the world, they hold true. I have more research to support that than I care to disseminate here with a bunch of yahoo's who whine because the world acts according to the laws that govern the world. Shit happens!

Lastly, I do not see myself above, greater than, important as....I'm just another man who lives, takes up my 2x2 personal space and do what I can for my fellow man. Healt insurance is not one.


I've been reading this board for years, I know the hatred and insecurities people express, that is their issue, not mine.

dude...your quote was "get a job and don't suck off the system" regarding the poor

you tell me where these jobs are....some cities in Ohio have like 30% unemployment....is it all because of lazyness or is it because there are no jobs?

JS81606

Back to Point.

I have looked around this fine country, have seen the results of our healthcare. Obesity! Kids turned into junkies due to Ritalin! The average senior citizen taking 10, yes 10 drugs perday! My point, if the best is that, then no thanks! Big pharma and the docs have monopolised this system, and to feed fuel to it would be an utter travesty. If I had the answer for the less priveliged, the poor, the unemployed, it would be........find anything to make yourself better than what you are or were doing. Sounds simple, I know it isn't, yet it is possible. Shit, let's be serious, who would of thought five young boys could do what they have managed to do and become. I just feel, very strongly, it is in all of us to do great things, and when we don't, we only let ourselves down and that is the hardest part to live with. I do not live in the government sector of aid or assistance, I just pay handsomely into it. As I watch my earnings go towards programs that only deteriorate the current situation, then yes, I get alarmed and agitated.

To ramble on, an employee at our business, dx with diabetes. I sent him to a doc, unconventional one at that in Houston Tx, and low and behold, this employee found out if he changed diet, exercise, and did a strict nutritional program, he was good to go. Five years later, this man continues to do well. Yes I supported, helped pay for, and continue to pay for some of those services. I would more than be happy to contribute to that type of care for people, but meds and unwarranted surgeries and therapies that have proven for the last 15-20 years to be repeat failures, I'll spend my $ elsewhere. That is just me.

As for Mr Ohio, sorry to hear about your situation, but seriously, having access to a system that only perpetuates sickness and disease? I won't do it! AGAIN, NO! Everyone does not deserve the best! Yet we do deserve better....of what we currently have. I wish I could be more concise. Not my nature tho!

polaris_x

then all you're really saying is that you don't believe this gov't can administer an efficient program

TriumphantAngel

JS81606 wrote:

To ramble on, an employee at our business, dx with diabetes. I sent him to a doc, unconventional one at that in Houston Tx, and low and behold, this employee found out if he changed diet, exercise, and did a strict nutritional program, he was good to go. Five years later, this man continues to do well. Yes I supported, helped pay for, and continue to pay for some of those services. I would more than be happy to contribute to that type of care for people, but meds and unwarranted surgeries and therapies that have proven for the last 15-20 years to be repeat failures, I'll spend my $ elsewhere. That is just me.

That's all very lovely of you, and i'm sure you will understand that he/she would've had type 2 diabetes, which on some people can be controlled by diet and change of lifestyle and symptons can even disappear.....

People with type 1 (juvenile diabetes), do not have that option. They get it, they are stuck with it for life. You can send them as much as you like to your unconventional doc in Houston, and all the changes in diet and excercise will do jack shit. That kid has diabetes for life.

TriumphantAngel

Cosmo wrote:

The initial question asked was, Should Everyone Get The Best (Health Care)?
...
My answer is 'No'... and that is not what Universal Health Care is about.
It is about providing a 'BASIC' coverage for everyone. The current insurance you get from your employer won't be taken away... it will be more coverage with more choices. But, if you lose your job, you'll at least have access to basic health care.
It is like that now. I already have GREAT coverage because i work for a multi-billion dollar corporation. If I want... i can go out and purchase more coverage to cover the 40% deductible I now possess. I can... if i choose to. No one is stopping me. if i lose my job.. I lose my coverage and will have to pay for it one the open market... which i probably cannot afford (at least, to the level I am currently used to getting).
And I really don't mind paying for basic health care for the minimum wage workers that are working in the kitchens where I eat my lunches... in the stores where i buy my beer and in the bars where I go to have a beer and catch a Dodgers game. I know they can't afford to be sick today, so they go to work with that flu bug. If they could get treatment for that... I would benefit, right?
...
And all that 'Fuck the poor' shit I hear... it saddens me to think there are people out there that lack the compassion for their fellow people... their fellow Americans... and place the value of a dollar above the well being of the less fortunate. God Bless America... well, God bless the Americans with jobs... I guess.

nicely said cosmo...

Claireack

Sorry JS81606 still think you're wrong.

I am on a not great income myself, even though I work for the NHS. Every pay cheque I have includes deductions for tax and national insurance. My mother on the other hand, has worked very little over the years, she's brought 3 kids up, looked after her husband etc. She now has Underactive thyroid, diabetes, IBS, arthritus and various other health issues, she's probably on more than 10 tablets/day. I don't mind that my contributions go to help her, or to the unemployed single mother down the road.

Everyone deserves health care, food, and shelter, these are necessary to live. Anything else is a bonus and as such should not be paid for by others.

I'm not great on facts and figures, I can't give you a long list of pro's for a national health service. But all I know is that I've worked hard all my life, my total unemployed time over 23 years is probably only 4 weeks. I did have maternity leave for 14 weeks when I had my son, I've also had some sick leave over the years. I've done loads of shitty jobs and I'm probably doing a job now that not a lot of people would want to. I don't have a lavish lifestyle and I'm not extravagant but if it hadn't been for a national health system in this country I would probably have been dead at some point in the last year. If I'd have had to pay for all the surgery, treatment, hospital bills, medication myself I wouldn't have been able to do it. I know this is all subjective and I admit I'm not the best person at being objective, but surely some kind of free health service is essential in every country, whether that is the 'mighty west' or a subsistance country.

I'm glad you've done well for yourself, and also pleased the band has progressed on from working in gas stations etc. But I have no doubt that you have reaped the benefits in ways that people like me will never know whether thats possession or experiences, so don't begrudge those who have not been as fortunate as you for whatever reason. People on low incomes or unemployed are still people.