Religious faith deserves our utmost respect

that is disgusting. people like that make me sick. she would have had symptons of diabetes before she got to that stage. (frequent urination, obsessive thirst, weight loss, generally unwell to name a few). people who would rather bother god than look after their own children are sick. talk about blind faith.

Faith is a good human trait to possess... but, common sense can sometimes trump faith.
Like, if my circular saw were to grab, kick back and bite me in the forearm... I'm calling 9-11 and getting some paramedics on the scene instead of praying that Jesus comes down to heal my wound. Common sense... yeah?

This is part of the reason why we need to evolve beyond the need for religion. No Gods or Kings, just mankind.

soulsinging wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.

Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?

I just read this post and the words that came to my mind was some common sense is what was needed IF that father really cared. Sometimes you can't wait around for faith you gotta do what you have to immediately, faith can come later.

Peace

soulsinging wrote:

_outlaw wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.

Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?

Yeah I know right, when will all those billions of people who believe in a religion just drop the bullshit? Because, of course, every single one of the billions of people who believe in religion subscribe to the same nonsense that you posted. :roll: You can think the people from the article are stupid, but drop your nonsensical rambling when it comes to religion in general.

They do believe the same nonsense. That God is sitting up there listening to prayers all day and answering them. Do you agree that it is nuts for these guys to opt to pray for his daughter rather than take her to a doctor? Of course. Yet religious faith always involves this process... I want or need something, so I pray for it. Is God some sort of insurance agent up there, deciding which prayer procedures he'll cover and which ones you're on your own for? It doesn't matter what you're praying for, praying to the great big management office in the sky is always irrational. If any prayer is reasonable, then this prayer is reasonable. Because it's all about God's plan right?

Stick to law because when it comes to religion you clearly know nothing. And no, I won't waste my time trying to explain the intricacies of religious prayer to you, let alone the difference between prayers in every religion. Yes, they are different. of course there are people who sit there and pray for God to help their daughter, but that doesn't mean every religious person ONLY does that. If someone, on their own time, chooses to ask God to help cure their daughter's disease or whatever, then what's it to you? Mind your fucking business. Now when prayer comes to actually add or interfere with common sense, then you have a point. Otherwise, you're just showing absolute ignorance and religious intolerance based on a stupid story that barely reflects the notion of faith followed by billions of people worldwide.

scb wrote:

This kinda reminds me of a joke that I'm not gonna try & re-tell. But the gist of it is that there's a guy who's drowning and he prays & prays for God to save him and 3 boats come to rescue him & he tells each of them that he doesn't need their help because God's gonna save him. Finally he dies and goes to Heaven and asks God why he didn't save him & God says, "I sent you 3 boats."

There was an old man sitting on his porch watching the rain fall. Pretty soon the water was coming over the porch and into the house.

The old man was still sitting there when a rescue boat came and the people on board said, "You can't stay here you have to come with us."

The old man replied, "No, God will save me." So the boat left. A little while later the water was up to the second floor, and another rescue boat came, and again told the old man he had to come with them.

The old man again replied, "God will save me." So the boat left him again.

An hour later the water was up to the roof and a third rescue boat approached the old man, and tried to get him to come with them.

Again the old man refused to leave stating that, "God will save him." So the boat left him again.

Soon after, the man drowns and goes to heaven, and when he sees God he asks him, "Why didn't you save me?"

God replied, "You dummy! I tried. I sent three boats after you!!"

i had a similar situation with prayer and healing.

about 9 years ago i was covering a youth football camp. i am a certified athletic trainer so part of my job at that time was to sit out at football practice and camps and sporting events and take care of any injuries that may occur to the athletes. some days i did not have to do anything other than read my book or whatever then some days i had 2 or 3 emergency situations that required an ambulance transport.

this particular day was my first day on this job. it was a non-contact no pad football camp for kids aged 9-12 or something like that. i was thinking "this is gonna be a piece of cake, who gets hurt in non contact camp?" i just got to the field and 10 minutes into warm ups i hear "TRAINER!!!!!!". i ran over to one of the fields and this 10 year old kid was just jogging and he tripped and fell and landed on an outstreched hand. he had an obvious Colles fracture (both ulna and radius) that was open (aka compound). he had significant angulation and displacement. i calmed the kid down and covered it so he would not see it. the mom was in a van about 100 yards away from me so i had the coach call the mom and have her come over to us while i was treating the wound and trying to splint the fractures. as luck would have it, Barnes-Jewish hospital was about 700 yards away and i told the mom to take him there. i could see it at the end of the fields at the athletic complex. it was an emergency and the kid was falling into shock. she said "we can't go to the hospital, we are chrisitan scientists". i tried to explain to the mom that this is a surgical issue, it needed reduction under anesthesia, he had loss of feeling, and the kid was bleeding, and he was going into shock. i said "that is not a cut, that is where the BONES WENT THROUGH THE SKIN..."the mom thanked me and said she would take care of it and was pretty dismissive of me. i got frustrated and was like "look lady, this can become life threatening in a very short time". she was like "we have a healer, i will just take him over there". the coach was familiar with this "healer" since some of the kids on another team he coached were christian scientist as well. he said to me "that guy is a prayer healer". i pleaded with the mom, "look, you have barnes hospital, one of the best trauma centers in the midwest right there. the kid is going into shock and this is an emergency situation". another coach saw this going on and called 911. the ambulance showed up in about 90 seconds since the hospital was so close and she refused care. the coach said something like "look lady you can go pray over that arm all week but god is not going to straighten those bones out." with that she carried the kid to her minivan and they left. i asked the paramedics if this happens very often and the one was like "actually yes. legally we can not treat someone wthout consent. we are not allowed to infringe on their religious faith, even in emergency situations." i am never going to forget that day.

about 3 weeks later i received a letter in the mail. it was from that kid's mom. she had gotten my name and address from the coach. she told me that they went to the healer and they prayed over him for 12 hours. he had lost consciousness some time before that and they kept praying over him. after 12 hours the healer said to take him to the hospital. he ended up having surgery that night to reduce and plate the fractures and he had some decreased nerve function of his hand. she thanked me "for caring for our son. your medical advice was greatly appreciated. i understand that you were doing your job. we completely appreciate your understanding and for not infringing upon or judging my family's religious faith." she included a $25 best buy gift card. i was speechless. i felt like what she had done was child abuse. i still do not know what to think about all of that. especially if he has permanent nerve damage, something that was so preventable if they had sought medical attention much sooner than they did. i am all for freedom of religion, freedom from religion, whatever you want. but someting like this should have had proper medical attention and definitely should not have waited 12 hours.... by the way i gave the gift card away to a friend. after this nightmare situation i did not want her money. my silent form of protest i guess.

soulsinging wrote:

Touched a nerve have I? You keep your inane superstitions. This guy thought prayer did something, so he kept praying. Nobody listened. Because nobody's listening. It doesn't matter if you're prayer for a miracle healing, for your team to make the playoffs, for world peace, or for some sort of personal enlightenment. You're just talking to an imaginary friend and any "insight" or "value" you get from it comes from within and only seems to come from above due to self-delusion and wishful thinking.

what do you mean my superstitions? when did I even say I believe in it? Maybe I just have respect for it, unlike you. It baffles me how utterly disrespectful some atheists can be.