Touched a nerve have I? You keep your inane superstitions. This guy thought prayer did something, so he kept praying. Nobody listened. Because nobody's listening. It doesn't matter if you're prayer for a miracle healing, for your team to make the playoffs, for world peace, or for some sort of personal enlightenment. You're just talking to an imaginary friend and any "insight" or "value" you get from it comes from within and only seems to come from above due to self-delusion and wishful thinking.
what do you mean my superstitions? when did I even say I believe in it? Maybe I just have respect for it, unlike you. It baffles me how utterly disrespectful some atheists can be.
You claim some deep knowledge of the intricacies of prayer and said you're not talking to yourself... kinda leads to the conclusion you're a prayer guy. My apologies if I inferred wrongly.
I studied it and I was raised on it.
I've tried to respect religion, but what's the point? Do you respect creationists for their loony beliefs? Do we respect scientologists for the lunacy of the alien theories? How about the reptile people?
Firstly, I didn't say I respected the people BECAUSE of their religion. I respect people in general for other reasons. What I said was we should respect what they choose to believe in. Now, you can come in with the wack ass argument of "if someone believes in slavery, should we respect it?!?!?!" no, obviously not. but if someone chooses to believe in something on their own time and they have a strong faith in it, something with DOES NOT affect other people (like slavery would), then what is the problem with it? Moreover, if such a thing were to preach things like peace and morals, then shouldn't such a thing at the very least be respected, if not encouraged? Now, with every religion comes the minority who get more attention because they're more entertaining to poke fun at. Fine, you wanna say religion can be abused by people to be something bad, go ahead. But to say religion in itself is terrible when all it does is introduce concepts of morality and peace is idiotic. People themselves can turn religion into whatever they want to justify their own motives. And you know what? If they didn't have religion, they'd have something else to use.
Then why do we respect other religions which are no different? It's a bunch of absurd stories and crazy myths, it just so happened to get put together a few thousand years before the two I mentioned so somehow we deem them legitimate and worthy of respect. Fuck that, all religions are equally absurd and pick whatever one you want to think of right now... in 2000 years it will seem as quaint and goofy to the people then looking back as Roman mythology seems to us now. And those people will probably all be scientologists or something and claim that it is utterly rational and we should all respect that. The religion delusion is innate to humanity. I just wish we could evolve past it. We wouldn't respect someone that claims to still be part of the flat earth society, why should we respect people for clinging to beliefs that are even older and more out of touch with the realities of the world?
I know you think you sound smart for saying this, I mean you have the history reference and all, but to say something like the current religions will die out just like Roman mythology did is stupid. Roman mythology died out because the Roman empire did. It's a different era now. You have people on different sides of the globe preaching the same thing. It's not going to die out.
Now instead of sitting here and insulting people's beliefs, you should insult the way they choose to act upon their beliefs, which is a big difference. If a religion preaches something, and people go against their common sense and use religion to justify it, then they're just being fucking stupid. But don't be ignorant and intolerant, it just makes you seem like a jack ass who thinks he's superior because he was able to figure out that there is no God. If you don't think there's no God that's perfectly fine, but don't be a dick about it.
And dunkman, your whole "God sucks cause he's letting people die" routine is weak. What about men? War is created by us and it's claimed millions of lives, and it's still continuing. What the fuck are we doing about it?
not saying i could do better but if i was a supreme being and i would take a bit longer than 6 days to create a world and then rest forevermore... very sloppy workmanship... he cant complain about man being rapists and killers when he cant even build a fucking globe properly.
I sometimes think that everyone is right about what happens to them after they die. I do think everyone has a soul, that can and will survive any natural disaster, any disease, anything period-- however, if you have believed yourself, including your divine self (the soul) into being wormfood and nothing else after you die, this will be the case. After all, life is seeking the truth-- if your true being finds the truth to be nothingness after spending years on this planet in a flesh machine, why wouldn't it be that way for you? But who can truly say 100% positively that they absolutely do not believe in a life after this one, or that there isn't a completely parallel "place" in which your soul lives? I think if there is any inkling of doubt for anyone at their time of death, meaning, not knowing "truth" through themselves, it will be revealed. I'm sure many atheists are about as "pure in lack of spirit" as say, many Christians are "pure in spirit." That is, not even close to 'pure.' One thing is for certain though, life is pretty extraordinary. Maybe "Hell" as we know it might just be this nothingness that people actively achieve through their own beliefs...? It's not a fiery, torturous place as depicted in the Bible as much as it is absence from being part of a great, infinite web of love, or God, that interconnects us all. It's missing out, by choice?
If we become the nothing we expect, how are we going to know we missed out? No consciousness, no missing out. So who cares?
You claim some deep knowledge of the intricacies of prayer and said you're not talking to yourself... kinda leads to the conclusion you're a prayer guy. My apologies if I inferred wrongly.
I studied it and I was raised on it.
I've tried to respect religion, but what's the point? Do you respect creationists for their loony beliefs? Do we respect scientologists for the lunacy of the alien theories? How about the reptile people?
Firstly, I didn't say I respected the people BECAUSE of their religion. I respect people in general for other reasons. What I said was we should respect what they choose to believe in. Now, you can come in with the wack ass argument of "if someone believes in slavery, should we respect it?!?!?!" no, obviously not. but if someone chooses to believe in something on their own time and they have a strong faith in it, something with DOES NOT affect other people (like slavery would), then what is the problem with it? Moreover, if such a thing were to preach things like peace and morals, then shouldn't such a thing at the very least be respected, if not encouraged? Now, with every religion comes the minority who get more attention because they're more entertaining to poke fun at. Fine, you wanna say religion can be abused by people to be something bad, go ahead. But to say religion in itself is terrible when all it does is introduce concepts of morality and peace is idiotic. People themselves can turn religion into whatever they want to justify their own motives. And you know what? If they didn't have religion, they'd have something else to use.
Then why do we respect other religions which are no different? It's a bunch of absurd stories and crazy myths, it just so happened to get put together a few thousand years before the two I mentioned so somehow we deem them legitimate and worthy of respect. Fuck that, all religions are equally absurd and pick whatever one you want to think of right now... in 2000 years it will seem as quaint and goofy to the people then looking back as Roman mythology seems to us now. And those people will probably all be scientologists or something and claim that it is utterly rational and we should all respect that. The religion delusion is innate to humanity. I just wish we could evolve past it. We wouldn't respect someone that claims to still be part of the flat earth society, why should we respect people for clinging to beliefs that are even older and more out of touch with the realities of the world?
I know you think you sound smart for saying this, I mean you have the history reference and all, but to say something like the current religions will die out just like Roman mythology did is stupid. Roman mythology died out because the Roman empire did. It's a different era now. You have people on different sides of the globe preaching the same thing. It's not going to die out.
Now instead of sitting here and insulting people's beliefs, you should insult the way they choose to act upon their beliefs, which is a big difference. If a religion preaches something, and people go against their common sense and use religion to justify it, then they're just being fucking stupid. But don't be ignorant and intolerant, it just makes you seem like a jack ass who thinks he's superior because he was able to figure out that there is no God. If you don't think there's no God that's perfectly fine, but don't be a dick about it.
1. I studied it and was raised on it too, for many years. Apparently, only one of us studied hard enough to see through the bullshit.
2. If you think all religion does is introduce peace and morals, that makes one of us the ignorant one and it isn't me.
3. The historical analogy is perfectly valid and the fact that you act like your chosen faith is so special it's never been topped by any other faith ever is self-delusion. Christianity is already waning, Islam is on the rise. In a thousand years, Christianity and Judaism will be footnotes with goofy stories for college classes (or whatever equivalent). A few more, and Islam is gone in favor of scientology. So the cycle goes.
4. I never claimed to be superior for figuring out God doesn't exist. I claimed that those who still think there's a God that acts just like a human being sitting on a cloud listening to prayers and answering them all day are all as superstitious and primitive as early Native Americans or ancient Celts or the dead Greeks who had their equally bizarre belief systems.
not saying i could do better but if i was a supreme being and i would take a bit longer than 6 days to create a world and then rest forevermore... very sloppy workmanship... he cant complain about man being rapists and killers when he cant even build a fucking globe properly.
I sometimes think that everyone is right about what happens to them after they die. I do think everyone has a soul, that can and will survive any natural disaster, any disease, anything period-- however, if you have believed yourself, including your divine self (the soul) into being wormfood and nothing else after you die, this will be the case. After all, life is seeking the truth-- if your true being finds the truth to be nothingness after spending years on this planet in a flesh machine, why wouldn't it be that way for you? But who can truly say 100% positively that they absolutely do not believe in a life after this one, or that there isn't a completely parallel "place" in which your soul lives? I think if there is any inkling of doubt for anyone at their time of death, meaning, not knowing "truth" through themselves, it will be revealed. I'm sure many atheists are about as "pure in lack of spirit" as say, many Christians are "pure in spirit." That is, not even close to 'pure.' One thing is for certain though, life is pretty extraordinary. Maybe "Hell" as we know it might just be this nothingness that people actively achieve through their own beliefs...? It's not a fiery, torturous place as depicted in the Bible as much as it is absence from being part of a great, infinite web of love, or God, that interconnects us all. It's missing out, by choice?
If we become the nothing we expect, how are we going to know we missed out? No consciousness, no missing out. So who cares?
That's exactly it, you won't know. You were right. Everyone is. You're the end of the last episode of The Sopranos-- but I believe it would take full belief in that "nothing" for the soul to actually die. Anyone can lie to themselves, and we do it all the time. Deep down, there is you, and only you, and what you really believe to be true-- I think that even the slightest doubt in the belief of there being nothing after death, and you will actually know whether or not you were "wrong" about your soul's existence. Why? Because actually, you weren't wrong, you were right! That microcopic doubt against ultimately becoming wormfood (and only wormfood) is your innermost self (soul) refusing to perish.
Probably to your critique of the earth's crust, since you seem to think you can do better. Well, why don't you put on your wetsuit and PUT A LITTLE FIXIN' ON IT!!!
OMG....well played, sir, well done!
i am agnostic. i can't help myself but be agnostic. i was raised far too catholic to ever completely abandon the idea of possibility, and also probably why i too fall in line with respect to those who possess 'faith'...being that both my parents were/are indeed, very faithful, and good people whom i love....so how can i not have respect for that? also, as long as someone is not trying to shove their beliefs - believers or non-believers - in my face, i will always show respect to theirs. i see no reason NOT to be respectful, and i think that can play out on both sides. just because something may not be for me, doesn't mean i cannot agree in others' rights to believe as they see fit....
ya know, if anything..i think i may believe in reincarnation of sorts. it is said that the *energy* on the planet does not change. given that we each have our own energy, our lifeforce if you will...i'd imagine that when we die, our lifeforce gets passed on somehow. and yea, i know there are a LOT more people in this world, but hey...how about ALL living creatures? and yea, not saying ourselves as a whole, gets passed onto a nother life, maybe a few lives? idk...but i think it's as plausible a theory as any other. life and death just are, an ever evolving cycle, so i could imagine some link there.
Probably to your critique of the earth's crust, since you seem to think you can do better. Well, why don't you put on your wetsuit and PUT A LITTLE FIXIN' ON IT!!!
Probably to your critique of the earth's crust, since you seem to think you can do better. Well, why don't you put on your wetsuit and PUT A LITTLE FIXIN' ON IT!!!
OMG....well played, sir, well done!
Thanks, BUDDY!
ha....i got some if you need it.
but hey, i'm not that easy............
i am agnostic. i can't help myself but be agnostic. i was raised far too catholic to ever completely abandon the idea of possibility, and also probably why i too fall in line with respect to those who possess 'faith'...being that both my parents were/are indeed, very faithful, and good people whom i love....so how can i not have respect for that? also, as long as someone is not trying to shove their beliefs - believers or non-believers - in my face, i will always show respect to theirs. i see no reason NOT to be respectful, and i think that can play out on both sides. just because something may not be for me, doesn't mean i cannot agree in others' rights to believe as they see fit....
ya know, if anything..i think i may believe in reincarnation of sorts. it is said that the *energy* on the planet does not change. given that we each have our own energy, our lifeforce if you will...i'd imagine that when we die, our lifeforce gets passed on somehow. and yea, i know there are a LOT more people in this world, but hey...how about ALL living creatures? and yea, not saying ourselves as a whole, gets passed onto a nother life, maybe a few lives? idk...but i think it's as plausible a theory as any other. life and death just are, an ever evolving cycle, so i could imagine some link there.
pretty much sums it up for me
as for watching your child die hoping pray will heal him...that has nothing to do with religion...it's just crazy
i am agnostic. i can't help myself but be agnostic. i was raised far too catholic to ever completely abandon the idea of possibility, and also probably why i too fall in line with respect to those who possess 'faith'...being that both my parents were/are indeed, very faithful, and good people whom i love....so how can i not have respect for that? also, as long as someone is not trying to shove their beliefs - believers or non-believers - in my face, i will always show respect to theirs. i see no reason NOT to be respectful, and i think that can play out on both sides. just because something may not be for me, doesn't mean i cannot agree in others' rights to believe as they see fit....
ya know, if anything..i think i may believe in reincarnation of sorts. it is said that the *energy* on the planet does not change. given that we each have our own energy, our lifeforce if you will...i'd imagine that when we die, our lifeforce gets passed on somehow. and yea, i know there are a LOT more people in this world, but hey...how about ALL living creatures? and yea, not saying ourselves as a whole, gets passed onto a nother life, maybe a few lives? idk...but i think it's as plausible a theory as any other. life and death just are, an ever evolving cycle, so i could imagine some link there.
pretty much sums it up for me
as for watching your child die hoping pray will heal him...that has nothing to do with religion...it's just crazy
I personally would be doing everything in my power, seeking medical attention, while simultaneously praying to save my kid...
This kinda reminds me of a joke that I'm not gonna try & re-tell. But the gist of it is that there's a guy who's drowning and he prays & prays for God to save him and 3 boats come to rescue him & he tells each of them that he doesn't need their help because God's gonna save him. Finally he dies and goes to Heaven and asks God why he didn't save him & God says, "I sent you 3 boats."
There was an old man sitting on his porch watching the rain fall. Pretty soon the water was coming over the porch and into the house.
The old man was still sitting there when a rescue boat came and the people on board said, "You can't stay here you have to come with us."
The old man replied, "No, God will save me." So the boat left. A little while later the water was up to the second floor, and another rescue boat came, and again told the old man he had to come with them.
The old man again replied, "God will save me." So the boat left him again.
An hour later the water was up to the roof and a third rescue boat approached the old man, and tried to get him to come with them.
Again the old man refused to leave stating that, "God will save him." So the boat left him again.
Soon after, the man drowns and goes to heaven, and when he sees God he asks him, "Why didn't you save me?"
God replied, "You dummy! I tried. I sent three boats after you!!"
yea, cute...seen that one before.
i usually am none too fond of the 'religious forwards' my mother will pass on but absolutely...if one is a believer, one should believe that god actually gave you the ability to save yourself, do for yourself....with all that faith, also exists amazing brain power and supposedly, free-will. and all that god gets 'blamed' for....just too convenient imo, but whatever....i am too much of a fence-sitter to get too heavily into debate. that said tho, i am definitely about respect.
norm - as to your last post..... :shock: agreed!
idk how ANYone could do that, and i doubt most believers subscribe to that line of thought either.
I personally would be doing everything in my power, seeking medical attention, while simultaneously praying to save my kid...
Sad story, this is.
seriously
if god did create everything did he/she create medicine/doctors?
Good point.....G-d may have created doctors to carry-out his/her healing powers, just like G-d may have created prophets & clergymen to help "spread the word".
Touched a nerve have I? You keep your inane superstitions. This guy thought prayer did something, so he kept praying. Nobody listened. Because nobody's listening. It doesn't matter if you're prayer for a miracle healing, for your team to make the playoffs, for world peace, or for some sort of personal enlightenment. You're just talking to an imaginary friend and any "insight" or "value" you get from it comes from within and only seems to come from above due to self-delusion and wishful thinking.
I do have to say, though: Any time I can't find something - like my keys - I stop and say a prayer and they're always in the next place I look. Call me superstitious if you want, but it seems like more than just a coincidence to me.
so its your fault that genuine victims die... if god wasnt so busy helping people find their lost stuff then he could help AIDS victims, diabetic children of the metally ill and lepers and suchlike... but all day long he hears prayers about lost keys, about PJ tickets being available for their hometown, for cheese to be in the fridge and lotto numbers....
you should be ashamed of yourself.
Hey man, I'm a victim too! And Pearl Jam never comes to my town. :(
Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.
Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?
Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:
Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.
Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?
Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:
whoa, who is the one who needs a doctor now? easy there trigger....breathe in and out, breathe in and out...lol
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.
Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?
Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:
Wow. I'M the douchebag? Would that I could attain your level of class :roll:
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.
Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?
Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:
Wow I missed this, there's a need here for prfctlefts to be graceful under pressure.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.
Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?
Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:
PC thats going too far.
Agree with him or not, SS is simply posting his opinion. What this father did is complety disgusting, so howabout we argue about the issue instead of insulting ss choice of education. Personally I think he made an interesting point bringing up Schaivo.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I personally would be doing everything in my power, seeking medical attention, while simultaneously praying to save my kid...
Sad story, this is.
seriously
if god did create everything did he/she create medicine/doctors?
But when Jesus heard this, he said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick." (Matthew 9:12)
This thread seems to have become a discussion strictly about religion and most of the posters seem to be on the side of agnosticism. Going back to the OP, I will say that this story especially disturbs me because it involves forcing a child to suffer needlessly. An adult can make the choice not to seek medical care and pray for a "miracle cure" but a child is powerless in this situation. This is absolutely child abuse as far as I'm concerned.
I'm one of those persons of faith that many of you have expressed tolerance for and while I am not a religious scholar, I can't see any justification for a belief that would consider withholding medical care from a critically ill child as an expression of faith in God. This isn't religious expression on the part of the parents. I don't know if it's arrogance or if they felt their daughter could just be thrown away but I'd be concerned for any other kids they may have.
And dunkman, your whole "God sucks cause he's letting people die" routine is weak. What about men? War is created by us and it's claimed millions of lives, and it's still continuing. What the fuck are we doing about it?
war is created by us and god created us... ergo its his fault also... his creation of us is flawed.
also think of all the millions who have died as a result of their religion... jews in WW2.. the crusades... spanish colonisation... etc... all in the name of god.
if someone was going around killing people in my name i'd like to think i'd stop it... but god doesnt... to busy finding lost keys.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.
Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?
Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:
PC thats going too far.
Agree with him or not, SS is simply posting his opinion. What this father did is complety disgusting, so howabout we argue about the issue instead of insulting ss choice of education. Personally I think he made an interesting point bringing up Schaivo.
While not a cool reply, ss is certainly doing more than stating his opinion. He wanted a rise and he got it.
Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:
PC thats going too far.
Agree with him or not, SS is simply posting his opinion. What this father did is complety disgusting, so howabout we argue about the issue instead of insulting ss choice of education. Personally I think he made an interesting point bringing up Schaivo.
While not a cool reply, ss is certainly doing more than stating his opinion. He wanted a rise and he got it.
I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.
I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.
Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.
I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.
Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.
Praying is fine, but IMO, let the experts take care of the sick kid...
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.
Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.
Praying is fine, but IMO, let the experts take care of the sick kid...
Expert guessers. So I can certainly see praying as well.
Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.
Praying is fine, but IMO, let the experts take care of the sick kid...
Expert guessers. So I can certainly see praying as well.
Which was the point I was trying to make as well in my post above. If there is even biblical reference to consulting a doctor when sick, then what's wrong with it? This situation makes me angry too, these people playing with their child's life.
The more I think about it the more I feel like it was arrogance on the part of the parents rather than anything approaching faith. Their smug pride in their religious beliefs cost them their child and they wear that like a thorny crown! I don't know how they reconcile it. The idea that their daughter should have been saved by prayer alone and that outside medical care is wrong is just as bizarre to me as the whole notion of the prosperity gospel.
The bible also has references saying a lot of whacky shit. While I agree with that one, it's not unheard of for people to pick and choose what bible verses they listen to.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Conclusions
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.
so prayer works....just the opposite of what you wish for? :? yikes.
i may have to rework my prayers for a lotto win.
why bother even waiting that long
dear god,
please do not instantly bestow me with 89.3 million pounds and definitely do not give me the gift of immortality. sorry about all the geology problems i gave thee.
amen
*opens eyes*
ah fuck
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Comments
Firstly, I didn't say I respected the people BECAUSE of their religion. I respect people in general for other reasons. What I said was we should respect what they choose to believe in. Now, you can come in with the wack ass argument of "if someone believes in slavery, should we respect it?!?!?!" no, obviously not. but if someone chooses to believe in something on their own time and they have a strong faith in it, something with DOES NOT affect other people (like slavery would), then what is the problem with it? Moreover, if such a thing were to preach things like peace and morals, then shouldn't such a thing at the very least be respected, if not encouraged? Now, with every religion comes the minority who get more attention because they're more entertaining to poke fun at. Fine, you wanna say religion can be abused by people to be something bad, go ahead. But to say religion in itself is terrible when all it does is introduce concepts of morality and peace is idiotic. People themselves can turn religion into whatever they want to justify their own motives. And you know what? If they didn't have religion, they'd have something else to use.
I know you think you sound smart for saying this, I mean you have the history reference and all, but to say something like the current religions will die out just like Roman mythology did is stupid. Roman mythology died out because the Roman empire did. It's a different era now. You have people on different sides of the globe preaching the same thing. It's not going to die out.
Now instead of sitting here and insulting people's beliefs, you should insult the way they choose to act upon their beliefs, which is a big difference. If a religion preaches something, and people go against their common sense and use religion to justify it, then they're just being fucking stupid. But don't be ignorant and intolerant, it just makes you seem like a jack ass who thinks he's superior because he was able to figure out that there is no God. If you don't think there's no God that's perfectly fine, but don't be a dick about it.
And dunkman, your whole "God sucks cause he's letting people die" routine is weak. What about men? War is created by us and it's claimed millions of lives, and it's still continuing. What the fuck are we doing about it?
If we become the nothing we expect, how are we going to know we missed out? No consciousness, no missing out. So who cares?
1. I studied it and was raised on it too, for many years. Apparently, only one of us studied hard enough to see through the bullshit.
2. If you think all religion does is introduce peace and morals, that makes one of us the ignorant one and it isn't me.
3. The historical analogy is perfectly valid and the fact that you act like your chosen faith is so special it's never been topped by any other faith ever is self-delusion. Christianity is already waning, Islam is on the rise. In a thousand years, Christianity and Judaism will be footnotes with goofy stories for college classes (or whatever equivalent). A few more, and Islam is gone in favor of scientology. So the cycle goes.
4. I never claimed to be superior for figuring out God doesn't exist. I claimed that those who still think there's a God that acts just like a human being sitting on a cloud listening to prayers and answering them all day are all as superstitious and primitive as early Native Americans or ancient Celts or the dead Greeks who had their equally bizarre belief systems.
That's exactly it, you won't know. You were right. Everyone is. You're the end of the last episode of The Sopranos-- but I believe it would take full belief in that "nothing" for the soul to actually die. Anyone can lie to themselves, and we do it all the time. Deep down, there is you, and only you, and what you really believe to be true-- I think that even the slightest doubt in the belief of there being nothing after death, and you will actually know whether or not you were "wrong" about your soul's existence. Why? Because actually, you weren't wrong, you were right! That microcopic doubt against ultimately becoming wormfood (and only wormfood) is your innermost self (soul) refusing to perish.
OMG....well played, sir, well done!
i am agnostic. i can't help myself but be agnostic. i was raised far too catholic to ever completely abandon the idea of possibility, and also probably why i too fall in line with respect to those who possess 'faith'...being that both my parents were/are indeed, very faithful, and good people whom i love....so how can i not have respect for that? also, as long as someone is not trying to shove their beliefs - believers or non-believers - in my face, i will always show respect to theirs. i see no reason NOT to be respectful, and i think that can play out on both sides. just because something may not be for me, doesn't mean i cannot agree in others' rights to believe as they see fit....
ya know, if anything..i think i may believe in reincarnation of sorts. it is said that the *energy* on the planet does not change. given that we each have our own energy, our lifeforce if you will...i'd imagine that when we die, our lifeforce gets passed on somehow. and yea, i know there are a LOT more people in this world, but hey...how about ALL living creatures? and yea, not saying ourselves as a whole, gets passed onto a nother life, maybe a few lives? idk...but i think it's as plausible a theory as any other. life and death just are, an ever evolving cycle, so i could imagine some link there.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Thanks, BUDDY!
ha....i got some if you need it.
but hey, i'm not that easy............
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
pretty much sums it up for me
as for watching your child die hoping pray will heal him...that has nothing to do with religion...it's just crazy
I personally would be doing everything in my power, seeking medical attention, while simultaneously praying to save my kid...
Sad story, this is.
yea, cute...seen that one before.
i usually am none too fond of the 'religious forwards' my mother will pass on but absolutely...if one is a believer, one should believe that god actually gave you the ability to save yourself, do for yourself....with all that faith, also exists amazing brain power and supposedly, free-will.
norm - as to your last post..... :shock: agreed!
idk how ANYone could do that, and i doubt most believers subscribe to that line of thought either.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
seriously
if god did create everything did he/she create medicine/doctors?
Good point.....G-d may have created doctors to carry-out his/her healing powers, just like G-d may have created prophets & clergymen to help "spread the word".
Hey man, I'm a victim too! And Pearl Jam never comes to my town. :(
Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Wow. I'M the douchebag? Would that I could attain your level of class :roll:
Wow I missed this, there's a need here for prfctlefts to be graceful under pressure.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Agree with him or not, SS is simply posting his opinion. What this father did is complety disgusting, so howabout we argue about the issue instead of insulting ss choice of education. Personally I think he made an interesting point bringing up Schaivo.
This thread seems to have become a discussion strictly about religion and most of the posters seem to be on the side of agnosticism. Going back to the OP, I will say that this story especially disturbs me because it involves forcing a child to suffer needlessly. An adult can make the choice not to seek medical care and pray for a "miracle cure" but a child is powerless in this situation. This is absolutely child abuse as far as I'm concerned.
I'm one of those persons of faith that many of you have expressed tolerance for
war is created by us and god created us... ergo its his fault also... his creation of us is flawed.
also think of all the millions who have died as a result of their religion... jews in WW2.. the crusades... spanish colonisation... etc... all in the name of god.
if someone was going around killing people in my name i'd like to think i'd stop it... but god doesnt... to busy finding lost keys.
While not a cool reply, ss is certainly doing more than stating his opinion. He wanted a rise and he got it.
I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.
Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.
Expert guessers.
The more I think about it the more I feel like it was arrogance on the part of the parents rather than anything approaching faith. Their smug pride in their religious beliefs cost them their child and they wear that like a thorny crown! I don't know how they reconcile it. The idea that their daughter should have been saved by prayer alone and that outside medical care is wrong is just as bizarre to me as the whole notion of the prosperity gospel.
http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS00 ... 6/abstract
Conclusions
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.
i may have to rework my prayers for a lotto win.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
why bother even waiting that long
dear god,
please do not instantly bestow me with 89.3 million pounds and definitely do not give me the gift of immortality. sorry about all the geology problems i gave thee.
amen
*opens eyes*
ah fuck