Religious faith deserves our utmost respect

norm

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I personally would be doing everything in my power, seeking medical attention, while simultaneously praying to save my kid...

Sad story, this is.

seriously



if god did create everything did he/she create medicine/doctors?

JOEJOEJOE

norm wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I personally would be doing everything in my power, seeking medical attention, while simultaneously praying to save my kid...

Sad story, this is.

seriously



if god did create everything did he/she create medicine/doctors?

Good point.....G-d may have created doctors to carry-out his/her healing powers, just like G-d may have created prophets & clergymen to help "spread the word".

_

dunkman wrote:

scb wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Touched a nerve have I? You keep your inane superstitions. This guy thought prayer did something, so he kept praying. Nobody listened. Because nobody's listening. It doesn't matter if you're prayer for a miracle healing, for your team to make the playoffs, for world peace, or for some sort of personal enlightenment. You're just talking to an imaginary friend and any "insight" or "value" you get from it comes from within and only seems to come from above due to self-delusion and wishful thinking.

I do have to say, though: Any time I can't find something - like my keys - I stop and say a prayer and they're always in the next place I look. Call me superstitious if you want, but it seems like more than just a coincidence to me.

so its your fault that genuine victims die... if god wasnt so busy helping people find their lost stuff then he could help AIDS victims, diabetic children of the metally ill and lepers and suchlike... but all day long he hears prayers about lost keys, about PJ tickets being available for their hometown, for cheese to be in the fridge and lotto numbers....

you should be ashamed of yourself.

Hey man, I'm a victim too! And Pearl Jam never comes to my town. :(

WaveCameCrashin

soulsinging wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.

Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?

Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.

Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?

Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:

whoa, who is the one who needs a doctor now? easy there trigger....breathe in and out, breathe in and out...lol

soulsinging

prfctlefts wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.

Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?

Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:

Wow. I'M the douchebag? Would that I could attain your level of class :roll:

g under p

prfctlefts wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.

Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?

Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:

Wow I missed this, there's a need here for prfctlefts to be graceful under pressure.

Peace

keeponrockin

prfctlefts wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.

Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?

Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:

PC thats going too far.

Agree with him or not, SS is simply posting his opinion. What this father did is complety disgusting, so howabout we argue about the issue instead of insulting ss choice of education. Personally I think he made an interesting point bringing up Schaivo.

Who Princess

norm wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I personally would be doing everything in my power, seeking medical attention, while simultaneously praying to save my kid...

Sad story, this is.

seriously



if god did create everything did he/she create medicine/doctors?

But when Jesus heard this, he said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick." (Matthew 9:12)

This thread seems to have become a discussion strictly about religion and most of the posters seem to be on the side of agnosticism. Going back to the OP, I will say that this story especially disturbs me because it involves forcing a child to suffer needlessly. An adult can make the choice not to seek medical care and pray for a "miracle cure" but a child is powerless in this situation. This is absolutely child abuse as far as I'm concerned.

I'm one of those persons of faith that many of you have expressed tolerance for and while I am not a religious scholar, I can't see any justification for a belief that would consider withholding medical care from a critically ill child as an expression of faith in God. This isn't religious expression on the part of the parents. I don't know if it's arrogance or if they felt their daughter could just be thrown away but I'd be concerned for any other kids they may have.

dunkman

_outlaw wrote:

And dunkman, your whole "God sucks cause he's letting people die" routine is weak. What about men? War is created by us and it's claimed millions of lives, and it's still continuing. What the fuck are we doing about it?

war is created by us and god created us... ergo its his fault also... his creation of us is flawed.

also think of all the millions who have died as a result of their religion... jews in WW2.. the crusades... spanish colonisation... etc... all in the name of god.

if someone was going around killing people in my name i'd like to think i'd stop it... but god doesnt... to busy finding lost keys.

cincybearcat

keeponrockin wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_prayer_death

Daughter's dying of diabetes? Fuck medicine, let's just pray for her. Yet these people throw a shit fit over their perception that people that accept abortion have no respect for human life.

Clearly, faith and religion are eminently reasonable, rational things to buy into. Pull the plug on Terri Schaivo and you're a sick murdering monster playing God. Refuse to treat her in the first place so you can all hold hands and sing fucking kum-bay-a and you're just devoutly expressing your faith. When we will get over this primitive bullshit and let these inbred superstitions die the death they deserve?

Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:

PC thats going too far.

Agree with him or not, SS is simply posting his opinion. What this father did is complety disgusting, so howabout we argue about the issue instead of insulting ss choice of education. Personally I think he made an interesting point bringing up Schaivo.

While not a cool reply, ss is certainly doing more than stating his opinion. He wanted a rise and he got it.

soulsinging

cincybearcat wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Don't you have some scumbag pedophile to defend somewhere . Im so sick of your Im better than anyone because Im a douche bag law student post. Piss off... :evil:

PC thats going too far.

Agree with him or not, SS is simply posting his opinion. What this father did is complety disgusting, so howabout we argue about the issue instead of insulting ss choice of education. Personally I think he made an interesting point bringing up Schaivo.

While not a cool reply, ss is certainly doing more than stating his opinion. He wanted a rise and he got it.

I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.

cincybearcat

soulsinging wrote:

I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.

Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.

keeponrockin

cincybearcat wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.

Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.

Praying is fine, but IMO, let the experts take care of the sick kid...

cincybearcat

keeponrockin wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I actually just wanted to rant and vent a bit, and I feel better for it already. I couldn't care less what kind of reaction it gets, though I'll admit I'm not surprised and figured it'd piss people off.

Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.

Praying is fine, but IMO, let the experts take care of the sick kid...

Expert guessers. So I can certainly see praying as well.

Who Princess

cincybearcat wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah, I can understand the frustration with that situation. It is crazy that there are people out there that are willing to let their loved ones die. I'm not sure what wrong with using modern medicine AND praying that IT WORKS! That seems to be a good compromise, and in reality I think that is where most people that believe in God fall.

Praying is fine, but IMO, let the experts take care of the sick kid...

Expert guessers. So I can certainly see praying as well.

Which was the point I was trying to make as well in my post above. If there is even biblical reference to consulting a doctor when sick, then what's wrong with it? This situation makes me angry too, these people playing with their child's life.

The more I think about it the more I feel like it was arrogance on the part of the parents rather than anything approaching faith. Their smug pride in their religious beliefs cost them their child and they wear that like a thorny crown! I don't know how they reconcile it. The idea that their daughter should have been saved by prayer alone and that outside medical care is wrong is just as bizarre to me as the whole notion of the prosperity gospel.

keeponrockin

The bible also has references saying a lot of whacky shit. While I agree with that one, it's not unheard of for people to pick and choose what bible verses they listen to.

SundaySilence

People undergoing surgery did no different if they were prayed for. Unless they were told they were being prayed for. Then they did worse.

http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS00 ... 6/abstract

Conclusions
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

decides2dream

so prayer works....just the opposite of what you wish for? :? yikes.
i may have to rework my prayers for a lotto win.

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

so prayer works....just the opposite of what you wish for? :? yikes.
i may have to rework my prayers for a lotto win.

why bother even waiting that long

dear god,
please do not instantly bestow me with 89.3 million pounds and definitely do not give me the gift of immortality. sorry about all the geology problems i gave thee.
amen


*opens eyes*


ah fuck