So, a patient just called me...

jlew24asu · July 2009

scb wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

It's simple... I am more qualified than anyone as a source for my experiences.

are you a Doctor?

Do I have to be a doctor to know how long it took to get an appointment?

no, but you should be before you claim to have more experience that a long list of MDs who wrote that report

ajedigecko · July 2009

what i think would be interesting to find out............how many people run up their credit card(s) on pj tour and merchandise..........but do not take care of their health priorities.

jlew24asu · July 2009

soulsinging wrote:

It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.

yikes.

I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.

even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.

edit: I will add that a few thousand dollars is alot for me too. but if it meant the health of my child, you bet your ass I would go into debt to pay for it.

soulsinging · July 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.

yikes.

I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.

even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.

Exactly the kind of thinking that tanked our economy. "Eh, who cares how little they make, let's just give them money. They can pay it back eventually."

Doable and no big deal are as similar to me as offended and annoyed were to you elsewhere. Bottom line is you dismissed the argument like it was meaningless. I don't care what rates you get (it's gone from low interest to no interest I see, and I've never heard of a loan that gives you as long as you want to repay), several thousand dollars is a huge burden to most people in this country. Just ask my brother, who also has a JD and is an excellent worker but can't find a job to save his life, how he would feel about saddling himself with a few thousand dollars right now with the prospect of the expenses of a child a few months away.

I see your edit... wouldn't it be nice, though, if you didn't have to choose between the prospect of long-term debt and the health of your child? Boy, gotta love the choices this system gives us.

_ · July 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

"Several thousand dollars is doable"?? Again, what an elitist statement! It seems that you don't have a great understanding of the plight of some people in this country/world.

:roll: yes, even for low income people, several thousand dollars is doable. especially when it comes to the health of a their child and low interest free payment plans are the norm.

scb wrote:

And with regard to your suggestion that they should have put more thought into having a baby, they are right now in clinic deciding whethre or not to have an abortion because they can't afford a baby right now. (She was on the pill, by the way.)

I have a feeling you make up all this shit just for debating purposes. funny how this story seems to progress right along with your arguments.

For one thing, I said just the delivery is several thousand dollars - that doesn't include the prenatal care and doesn't account for any complications.

Secondly, didn't you just a minute ago say "payment plans rarely exist"? I don't know what now makes you think that "low interest free payment plans are the norm". :? :?

Third, it doesn't matter whether or not you think this cost is doable. If it's not doable for them, it's not doable. And then your tax dollars will eat the higher cost when they either receive care they can't pay for or deliver a baby with higher complications.

Fourth, I wish I made this shit up for debating purposes! But instead, I debate because I'm passionate about this stuff because it's not made up and I deal with it every day.

As for this patient, it just so happens that our Wednesday AM clinic is set aside specifically for women who need pregnancy ultrasounds and/or who need pregancy options counseling, and I coordinate the clinic and give Medicaid to those who need it. The Medicaid part comes first (since so many healthcare decisions are made based on financial concerns). I tried to give her Medicaid and came & posted. Then the pregnancy counseling part happens, after which I found out that she's considering abortion.

You're just in luck that this patient came in today.... although it's not unlikely since we have patients like this most days, unfortunately.

_ · July 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

are you a Doctor?

Do I have to be a doctor to know how long it took to get an appointment?

no, but you should be before you claim to have more experience that a long list of MDs who wrote that report

Are you actually denying that I have more experience than they do when it comes to MY OWN EXPERIENCES???

_ · July 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.

yikes.

I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.

even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.

edit: I will add that a few thousand dollars is alot for me too. but if it meant the health of my child, you bet your ass I would go into debt to pay for it.

I still don't get why you think everyone has this option to pay back their medical bills interest free for as long as it takes.

Also, when you're truly broke and truly concerned about the health of your child, you get the care, and then when the bill comes you spend your money feeding your child instead of paying the bill. People generally have less money after they have kids, not more.

jlew24asu · July 2009

scb wrote:

For one thing, I said just the delivery is several thousand dollars - that doesn't include the prenatal care and doesn't account for any complications.

Secondly, didn't you just a minute ago say "payment plans rarely exist"? I don't know what now makes you think that "low interest free payment plans are the norm". :? :?

my mistake. I meant to say always exist. sorry about that.

scb wrote:

Third, it doesn't matter whether or not you think this cost is doable. If it's not doable for them, it's not doable. And then your tax dollars will eat the higher cost when they either receive care they can't pay for or deliver a baby with higher complications.

I've always said I support health care for children. this counts. I support my tax dollars going to help this woman.

BUT, you make it sound like she has no options. she does.

scb wrote:

Fourth, I wish I made this shit up for debating purposes! But instead, I debate because I'm passionate about this stuff because it's not made up and I deal with it every day.

As for this patient, it just so happens that our Wednesday AM clinic is set aside specifically for women who need pregnancy ultrasounds and/or who need pregancy options counseling, and I coordinate the clinic and give Medicaid to those who need it. The Medicaid part comes first (since so many healthcare decisions are made based on financial concerns). I tried to give her Medicaid and came & posted. Then the pregnancy counseling part happens, after which I found out that she's considering abortion.

You're just in luck that this patient came in today.... although it's not unlikely since we have patients like this most days, unfortunately.

it certainly is a perfect example to discuss

soulsinging · July 2009

scb wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.

yikes.

I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.

even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.

edit: I will add that a few thousand dollars is alot for me too. but if it meant the health of my child, you bet your ass I would go into debt to pay for it.

I still don't get why you think everyone has this option to pay back their medical bills interest free for as long as it takes.

Also, when you're truly broke and truly concerned about the health of your child, you get the care, and then when the bill comes you spend your money feeding your child instead of paying the bill. People generally have less money after they have kids, not more.

Well, they can always just work harder and make more money :roll: Just so long as they know we will blame them for being a terrible parent if their kid struggles in school because they don't spend enough time with them after taking on the second job.

jlew24asu · July 2009

scb wrote:

I still don't get why you think everyone has this option to pay back their medical bills interest free for as long as it takes.

I'm just going off personal experience. and a quick google search confirmed what I'm talking about

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card- ... s-1266.php

here are just 4 of 15 tips to high medical bills.

1. Everything's negotiable. You may be able to get a portion of the bill reduced. A hospital bill typically includes items for surgery, anesthesiology, medications, X-rays and other expenses. Contact information for each should be included on the bill. Try talking to the service providers to see if they will reduce their fees in any way.

2. Payment plans. If you can't pay the entire balance at once (and many people can't), work out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital. Some charge no interest; others do. Make sure the plan is realistic and based on your ability to pay. Stick to the plan. If your circumstances change, contact the medical provider and try to negotiate a different arrangement. Get all payment terms in writing by asking the medical provider to send you written confirmation so there is proof.

3. Credit reports. According to Experian and TransUnion -- two of the three major credit reporting agencies -- hospitals, doctors and medical providers rarely report payment information to the bureaus. "Accounts reported by medical businesses account for only .07 percent of our data," according to Maxine Sweet, Experian's vice president of public education. Adds TransUnion spokesman Steven Katz: "These types of debts are not typically reported unless they become delinquent and are assigned to collections." On the other hand, payments on credit cards, installment loans and lines of credit are all reported to the credit bureaus. So working out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital may be a better option for you if you're concerned about medical debt lowering your credit score.

4. Charity begins at the hospital. The majority of hospitals across the country, especially nonprofit hospitals, have charity care programs that pick up all or part of the cost of care for indigent or special needs families. Some restrict such aid to the uninsured or offer discounted services to the insured with limited incomes. Medical bill negotiators complain, however, that the availability of these programs is often poorly publicized in hospitals. Patients must often ask about them and actively seek them out. Don't be embarrassed to ask! Hospitals have financial counselors and patient advocates who may be able to offer advice.

_ · July 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

Third, it doesn't matter whether or not you think this cost is doable. If it's not doable for them, it's not doable. And then your tax dollars will eat the higher cost when they either receive care they can't pay for or deliver a baby with higher complications.

I've always said I support health care for children. this counts. I support my tax dollars going to help this woman.

Wait - are you saying we should pay for healthcare for all patient who are "with child" then?

jlew24asu wrote:

BUT, you make it sound like she has no options. she does.

I'm sorry, what were those options again? Bear in mind, please, that she needs options she can count on - not "your loan will probably be low-interest" or "you can afford it as long as you don't have any complications".

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

Fourth, I wish I made this shit up for debating purposes! But instead, I debate because I'm passionate about this stuff because it's not made up and I deal with it every day.

As for this patient, it just so happens that our Wednesday AM clinic is set aside specifically for women who need pregnancy ultrasounds and/or who need pregancy options counseling, and I coordinate the clinic and give Medicaid to those who need it. The Medicaid part comes first (since so many healthcare decisions are made based on financial concerns). I tried to give her Medicaid and came & posted. Then the pregnancy counseling part happens, after which I found out that she's considering abortion.

You're just in luck that this patient came in today.... although it's not unlikely since we have patients like this most days, unfortunately.

it certainly is a perfect example to discuss

Like I said, I have many, many of these perfect examples. They shape my opinion, not the other way around. I can post a new one every day if you'd like.

jlew24asu · July 2009

scb wrote:

Wait - are you saying we should pay for healthcare for all patient who are "with child" then?

I would support a plan that helped or completely subsidized pregnant women. but I would need to see specifics. I would prefer it be based on need and not an open checkbook.

scb wrote:

I'm sorry, what were those options again? Bear in mind, please, that she needs options she can count on - not "your loan will probably be low-interest" or "you can afford it as long as you don't have any complications".

just because you dont like the options, doesn't mean they dont exist.

they could be more careful while having sex if they didnt want children. you said she was on the pill, great. im sure more precautions could have been taken. like a condom or withdrawal method in additional to the pill.. no, we dont know if that was used, but its safe to assume it wasn't.

she could buy her own insurance plan.

she could pay for the care herself and use some of tips
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card- ... s-1266.php

she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.

_ · July 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

I still don't get why you think everyone has this option to pay back their medical bills interest free for as long as it takes.

I'm just going off personal experience. and a quick google search confirmed what I'm talking about

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card- ... s-1266.php

here are just 4 of 15 tips to high medical bills.

1. Everything's negotiable. You may be able to get a portion of the bill reduced. A hospital bill typically includes items for surgery, anesthesiology, medications, X-rays and other expenses. Contact information for each should be included on the bill. Try talking to the service providers to see if they will reduce their fees in any way.

2. Payment plans. If you can't pay the entire balance at once (and many people can't), work out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital. Some charge no interest; others do. Make sure the plan is realistic and based on your ability to pay. Stick to the plan. If your circumstances change, contact the medical provider and try to negotiate a different arrangement. Get all payment terms in writing by asking the medical provider to send you written confirmation so there is proof.

3. Credit reports. According to Experian and TransUnion -- two of the three major credit reporting agencies -- hospitals, doctors and medical providers rarely report payment information to the bureaus. "Accounts reported by medical businesses account for only .07 percent of our data," according to Maxine Sweet, Experian's vice president of public education. Adds TransUnion spokesman Steven Katz: "These types of debts are not typically reported unless they become delinquent and are assigned to collections." On the other hand, payments on credit cards, installment loans and lines of credit are all reported to the credit bureaus. So working out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital may be a better option for you if you're concerned about medical debt lowering your credit score.

4. Charity begins at the hospital. The majority of hospitals across the country, especially nonprofit hospitals, have charity care programs that pick up all or part of the cost of care for indigent or special needs families. Some restrict such aid to the uninsured or offer discounted services to the insured with limited incomes. Medical bill negotiators complain, however, that the availability of these programs is often poorly publicized in hospitals. Patients must often ask about them and actively seek them out. Don't be embarrassed to ask! Hospitals have financial counselors and patient advocates who may be able to offer advice.

These are all great tips, but they are only possibilities. My point was that there are many cracks that people can slip through.

FYI... I just called the billing office for our hospital. The woman I spoke with said we don't charge interest for payment plans and there are some patients who take a long time to pay off their bills (although she stopped short of saying you can take as long as you'd like). She also said that if you miss two payments you're sent to collections, at which point you're subject to the policies and interest rates of the collection agencies.

polaris_x · July 2009

polaris_x wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

:roll: the system can be improved for the entire population without going to UHC.

can you point to any other country's health care system that is better that is not socialized?

soo ... any examples?

Gern Blansten · July 2009

{crickets}

_ · July 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

scb wrote:

Wait - are you saying we should pay for healthcare for all patient who are "with child" then?

I would support a plan that helped or completely subsidized pregnant women. but I would need to see specifics. I would prefer it be based on need and not an open checkbook.

scb wrote:

I'm sorry, what were those options again? Bear in mind, please, that she needs options she can count on - not "your loan will probably be low-interest" or "you can afford it as long as you don't have any complications".

just because you dont like the options, doesn't mean they dont exist.

they could be more careful while having sex if they didnt want children. you said she was on the pill, great. im sure more precautions could have been taken. like a condom or withdrawal method in additional to the pill.. no, we dont know if that was used, but its safe to assume it wasn't.

she could buy her own insurance plan.

she could pay for the care herself and use some of tips
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card- ... s-1266.php

she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.

Would you support care for undocumented immigrants who are pregant?

I never said I don't like the options. I love all the options that help patients! I'm just saying there are cracks between all these options.

soulsinging · July 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.

You don't think there's something wrong with the idea that a given citizen's choice of career might be dictated by a private insurance company? We prosecute the mafia for saying things like "no sir, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that accidents happen and we are offering you protection should you choose to play ball with us."

_ · July 2009

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.

You don't think there's something wrong with the idea that a given citizen's choice of career might be dictated by a private insurance company? We prosecute the mafia for saying things like "no sir, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that accidents happen and we are offering you protection should you choose to play ball with us."

You know SS, sometimes I think you're kind of an ass.... but sometimes you crack me up!

jlew24asu · July 2009

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.

You don't think there's something wrong with the idea that a given citizen's choice of career might be dictated by a private insurance company? We prosecute the mafia for saying things like "no sir, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that accidents happen and we are offering you protection should you choose to play ball with us."

you make it sound like employer provider healthcare is rare. and I'm not saying I like it, I'm just saying that its an option.

I worked for a company out of college that didnt offer health insurance. I bought my own with a lower payment and high deducible. I worked hard and bettered myself and was able to get a job with a better company that paid 100% of my premium. I didnt sit around and hope someone would pay for my care. I put that responsibility on myself.

know1 · July 2009

scb wrote:

asking if she could be seen by one of our docs. She has the list of the docs her health insurance will allow her to see and she's just going down the list calling every one. She's was on the L's by the time she got to me. I had to turn her away too.

Gotta love that "choice" provided to us by the private insurance companies!

I don't see what that has to do with the insurance companies. All it really says is it's hard to find a doctor.

So, a patient just called me...

Comments

Categories