So, I just denied Medicaid to a pregnant patient. I just looked a human being in the eye and said, "Of course we'll care for you and your unborn child... but we're going to charge you up the ass for it!" (Self-pay patients pay more than insurance companies do, ya know.) She doesn't qualify for Medicaid because you have to have had a green card for 5 years. She's only had hers for 4 and 1/2 years.
So now she'll likely not get the prenatal care she needs because she'll have to pay for it out-of-pocket. Of course, by the time she delivers she'll qualify for Medicaid. (Even if she still didn't meet the 5-year bar, her delivery would still be covered by EMSA - Emergency Medical Services for Aliens.) Ultimately we'll pay for her childbirth and pay for the healthcare of her child, but it may be more costly to us since she won't get good prenatal care.
Her boyfriend is with her and he's from Massachusetts. He pointed out that she'd be covered under their healthcare system.
Jlew... no need to take this as a value statement. I'm just pointing out yet another crack in the current system through which human beings fall.
this is an interesting report, thanks for posting.
in regards to access, its only bad for those who have no insurance. which should go as no surprise right? but....
"insured patients in the U.S. have rapid access to specialized health care services. In other countries, like the U.K and Canada, patients have little to no financial burden, but experience long wait times for such specialized services"
so you tell me, who has better access ?
I'm all for the current system being improved. I've never said otherwise.
again - that's for specialized care again ... for the majority of illnesses the wait times are manageable ... i would much prefer to have my system than yours easily as a person who could probably afford to pay for insurance ...
really tho - i don't think there is much of an argument as to which health care system is better especially if you believe that everyone should have at least some basic coverage ... the only real argument here is whether - given the funds and mandate: can the us gov't manage a program like this without fucking it up like they do a lot of programs ... that to me is the main debate ...
in regards to access, its only bad for those who have no insurance.
Wow. Do you really not see the inhumanity of this statement? Here's how it reads: "As long as I and those like me have access to healthcare, other people don't matter." It's kinda like saying, "Of course we're a free nation; it's only the slaves who aren't free," or "Of course we're a representative government; it's only the women, people of color, and those who don't own land who can't vote."
"insured patients in the U.S. have rapid access to specialized health care services. In other countries, like the U.K and Canada, patients have little to no financial burden, but experience long wait times for such specialized services"
so you tell me, who has better access ?
I'm all for the current system being improved. I've never said otherwise but if you want to talk about access, you should tell the whole story.
YOU are the one who should be telling the whole story about access. If the statement I bolded is true, how come it just took me - an insured person - over 3 months to be seen by a specialist? How come I have to wait 2 months just for a regular check-up with my primary care physician? How come my friend with cancer is having to wait over a month for surgery? Where are these stories in your account of our healthcare system; why are they not represented?
again - that's for specialized care again ... for the majority of illnesses the wait times are manageable ... i would much prefer to have my system than yours easily as a person who could probably afford to pay for insurance ...
really tho - i don't think there is much of an argument as to which health care system is better especially if you believe that everyone should have at least some basic coverage ... the only real argument here is whether - given the funds and mandate: can the us gov't manage a program like this without fucking it up like they do a lot of programs ... that to me is the main debate ...
you are just brushing off specialized care as if its not important. it is.
and there is a very big argument which better. UHC is not better by any means. its only better in the sense that eliminates uninsured people. thats something that needs fixing.....and it can be fixed without going to UHC.
Wow. Do you really not see the inhumanity of this statement? Here's how it reads: "As long as I and those like me have access to healthcare, other people don't matter." It's kinda like saying, "Of course we're a free nation; it's only the slaves who aren't free," or "Of course we're a representative government; it's only the women, people of color, and those who don't own land who can't vote."
I didn't say this shouldn't be fixed. calm down. those without any access should get it. its the how is the debate.
YOU are the one who should be telling the whole story about access. If the statement I bolded is true, how come it just took me - an insured person - over 3 months to be seen by a specialist?
I don't know. you tell me. what specialist did you need to see? how many doctors specialize in this in the country?
you are just brushing off specialized care as if its not important. it is.
and there is a very big argument which better. UHC is not better by any means. its only better in the sense that eliminates uninsured people. thats something that needs fixing.....and it can be fixed without going to UHC.
how is that? if you feel like the priorities in a health care system is micro-brain surgery ... fine ... but to me most people die from heart disease and trauma and cancer, etc ... for the most part everyone in canada can get treated for the major illnesses ..
UHC is better for the entire population as a whole - it has been shown in numerous health care analysis ... the sad part is that in the US - you guys pay more than countries with UHC and the overall care is worse ...
sure, if you are loaded - everything is top notch ... but if you're going to evaluate a system - makes more sense to evaluate over the whole population than a segment no?
YOU are the one who should be telling the whole story about access. If the statement I bolded is true, how come it just took me - an insured person - over 3 months to be seen by a specialist? How come I have to wait 2 months just for a regular check-up with my primary care physician? How come my friend with cancer is having to wait over a month for surgery? Where are these stories in your account of our healthcare system; why are they not represented?
furthermore, I didnt post the source but these authors seemed much more qualified then you.
Authors: Karen Davis, Ph.D., Cathy Schoen, M.S., Stephen C. Schoenbaum, M.D., M.P.H., Michelle M. Doty, Ph.D., M.P.H., Alyssa L. Holmgren, M.P.A., Jennifer L. Kriss, and Katherine K. Shea
Editor(s): Deborah Lorber
and I'd love to know your theory on how UHC will bring down your wait times for the specialized care you claim to need. and thats IF that type of specialized care even exists anymore under a government plan.
why can't she pay for the prenatal care she wants? does she work? is her BF (the father?) willing to help pay? why doesnt she have insurance?
she doesnt have to pay for it all upfront. and it wouldnt be millions of dollars. she can even set up a payment plan.
how much would the services you denied her for cost?
Yes, she works, but she barely gets paid enough to live on and her employer doesn't provide health insurance. Same with her boyfriend. They need to save any extra money they can to provide for the baby.
She still has to pay at least $50 up front per visit (that's a lot for some people, ya know), and even payment plans have minimum payments that are often too much for people to afford.
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me and can't know every test or whatever she might need, but the visit today will cost about $1000. There should be a minimum of 15 prenatal visits, if everything goes well and no extra testing is needed. I'm not entirely sure about the cost of delivery off hand, but I'm pretty sure it's several thousand dollars.
how is that? if you feel like the priorities in a health care system is micro-brain surgery ... fine ... but to me most people die from heart disease and trauma and cancer, etc ... for the most part everyone in canada can get treated for the major illnesses ..
I guess we have different definitions of specialized care then. but for me certain cancer and trauma treatments qualify.
UHC is better for the entire population as a whole - it has been shown in numerous health care analysis ... the sad part is that in the US - you guys pay more than countries with UHC and the overall care is worse ...
:roll: the system can be improved for the entire population without going to UHC.
sure, if you are loaded - everything is top notch ... but if you're going to evaluate a system - makes more sense to evaluate over the whole population than a segment no?
again - that's for specialized care again ... for the majority of illnesses the wait times are manageable ... i would much prefer to have my system than yours easily as a person who could probably afford to pay for insurance ...
really tho - i don't think there is much of an argument as to which health care system is better especially if you believe that everyone should have at least some basic coverage ... the only real argument here is whether - given the funds and mandate: can the us gov't manage a program like this without fucking it up like they do a lot of programs ... that to me is the main debate ...
you are just brushing off specialized care as if its not important. it is.
If everyone had good primary care though, there would be much less need for specialists.
Wow. Do you really not see the inhumanity of this statement? Here's how it reads: "As long as I and those like me have access to healthcare, other people don't matter." It's kinda like saying, "Of course we're a free nation; it's only the slaves who aren't free," or "Of course we're a representative government; it's only the women, people of color, and those who don't own land who can't vote."
I didn't say this shouldn't be fixed. calm down. those without any access should get it. its the how is the debate.
YOU are the one who should be telling the whole story about access. If the statement I bolded is true, how come it just took me - an insured person - over 3 months to be seen by a specialist?
I don't know. you tell me. what specialist did you need to see? how many doctors specialize in this in the country?
How come my friend with cancer is having to wait over a month for surgery?
again, you think this wait time would be LESS under UHC? thats impossible.
I never said my wait time would be LESS under UHC. It may or may not. (I think it's possible that it would, because then patients could be more spread around amongst the docs and not have to be limited in who they see.) But if I'm going to wait this long anyway, I would definitely prefer that it's because everyone is receiving care.
YOU are the one who should be telling the whole story about access. If the statement I bolded is true, how come it just took me - an insured person - over 3 months to be seen by a specialist? How come I have to wait 2 months just for a regular check-up with my primary care physician? How come my friend with cancer is having to wait over a month for surgery? Where are these stories in your account of our healthcare system; why are they not represented?
furthermore, I didnt post the source but these authors seemed much more qualified then you.
Authors: Karen Davis, Ph.D., Cathy Schoen, M.S., Stephen C. Schoenbaum, M.D., M.P.H., Michelle M. Doty, Ph.D., M.P.H., Alyssa L. Holmgren, M.P.A., Jennifer L. Kriss, and Katherine K. Shea
Editor(s): Deborah Lorber
and I'd love to know your theory on how UHC will bring down your wait times for the specialized care you claim to need. and thats IF that type of specialized care even exists anymore under a government plan.
It's simple... I am more qualified than anyone as a source for my experiences.
Again, I never said UHC would necessarily decrease wait times.
Yes, she works, but she barely gets paid enough to live on and her employer doesn't provide health insurance. Same with her boyfriend. They need to save any extra money they can to provide for the baby.
maybe they should have put more thought into having a baby then no? I make plenty of money to live and having a baby is still a few years away because I don't have enough money saved to comfortable provide for a child.
and just because neither employers provide insurance, doesnt mean that cant have any. why can't she buy her own insurance plan?
She still has to pay at least $50 up front per visit (that's a lot for some people, ya know), and even payment plans have minimum payments that are often too much for people to afford.
from what I've seen, payment plans always exist. and even if they do, providers are always willing to set one up that is doable.
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me and can't know every test or whatever she might need, but the visit today will cost about $1000. There should be a minimum of 15 prenatal visits, if everything goes well and no extra testing is needed. I'm not entirely sure about the cost of delivery off hand, but I'm pretty sure it's several thousand dollars.
if prenatal care was important to her and her bf, they should do. several thousand dollars is doable
Yes, she works, but she barely gets paid enough to live on and her employer doesn't provide health insurance. Same with her boyfriend. They need to save any extra money they can to provide for the baby.
maybe they should have put more thought into having a baby then no? I make plenty of money to live and having a baby is still a few years away because I don't have enough money saved to comfortable provide for a child.
and just because neither employers provide insurance, doesnt mean that cant have any. why can't she buy her own insurance plan?
She still has to pay at least $50 up front per visit (that's a lot for some people, ya know), and even payment plans have minimum payments that are often too much for people to afford.
from what I've seen, payment plans rarely exist. and even if they do, providers are always willing to set one up that is doable.
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me and can't know every test or whatever she might need, but the visit today will cost about $1000. There should be a minimum of 15 prenatal visits, if everything goes well and no extra testing is needed. I'm not entirely sure about the cost of delivery off hand, but I'm pretty sure it's several thousand dollars.
if prenatal care was important to her and her bf, they should do. several thousand dollars is doable
"Several thousand dollars is doable"?? Again, what an elitist statement! It seems that you don't have a great understanding of the plight of some people in this country/world.
And with regard to your suggestion that they should have put more thought into having a baby, they are right now in clinic deciding whethre or not to have an abortion because they can't afford a baby right now. (She was on the pill, by the way.)
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me and can't know every test or whatever she might need, but the visit today will cost about $1000. There should be a minimum of 15 prenatal visits, if everything goes well and no extra testing is needed. I'm not entirely sure about the cost of delivery off hand, but I'm pretty sure it's several thousand dollars.
if prenatal care was important to her and her bf, they should do. several thousand dollars is doable
It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.
"Several thousand dollars is doable"?? Again, what an elitist statement! It seems that you don't have a great understanding of the plight of some people in this country/world.
:roll: yes, even for low income people, several thousand dollars is doable. especially when it comes to the health of a their child and low interest free payment plans are the norm.
And with regard to your suggestion that they should have put more thought into having a baby, they are right now in clinic deciding whethre or not to have an abortion because they can't afford a baby right now. (She was on the pill, by the way.)
I have a feeling you make up all this shit just for debating purposes. funny how this story seems to progress right along with your arguments.
what i think would be interesting to find out............how many people run up their credit card(s) on pj tour and merchandise..........but do not take care of their health priorities.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.
yikes.
I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.
even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.
edit: I will add that a few thousand dollars is alot for me too. but if it meant the health of my child, you bet your ass I would go into debt to pay for it.
It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.
yikes.
I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.
even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.
Exactly the kind of thinking that tanked our economy. "Eh, who cares how little they make, let's just give them money. They can pay it back eventually."
Doable and no big deal are as similar to me as offended and annoyed were to you elsewhere. Bottom line is you dismissed the argument like it was meaningless. I don't care what rates you get (it's gone from low interest to no interest I see, and I've never heard of a loan that gives you as long as you want to repay), several thousand dollars is a huge burden to most people in this country. Just ask my brother, who also has a JD and is an excellent worker but can't find a job to save his life, how he would feel about saddling himself with a few thousand dollars right now with the prospect of the expenses of a child a few months away.
I see your edit... wouldn't it be nice, though, if you didn't have to choose between the prospect of long-term debt and the health of your child? Boy, gotta love the choices this system gives us.
"Several thousand dollars is doable"?? Again, what an elitist statement! It seems that you don't have a great understanding of the plight of some people in this country/world.
:roll: yes, even for low income people, several thousand dollars is doable. especially when it comes to the health of a their child and low interest free payment plans are the norm.
And with regard to your suggestion that they should have put more thought into having a baby, they are right now in clinic deciding whethre or not to have an abortion because they can't afford a baby right now. (She was on the pill, by the way.)
I have a feeling you make up all this shit just for debating purposes. funny how this story seems to progress right along with your arguments.
For one thing, I said just the delivery is several thousand dollars - that doesn't include the prenatal care and doesn't account for any complications.
Secondly, didn't you just a minute ago say "payment plans rarely exist"? I don't know what now makes you think that "low interest free payment plans are the norm". :? :?
Third, it doesn't matter whether or not you think this cost is doable. If it's not doable for them, it's not doable. And then your tax dollars will eat the higher cost when they either receive care they can't pay for or deliver a baby with higher complications.
Fourth, I wish I made this shit up for debating purposes! But instead, I debate because I'm passionate about this stuff because it's not made up and I deal with it every day.
As for this patient, it just so happens that our Wednesday AM clinic is set aside specifically for women who need pregnancy ultrasounds and/or who need pregancy options counseling, and I coordinate the clinic and give Medicaid to those who need it. The Medicaid part comes first (since so many healthcare decisions are made based on financial concerns). I tried to give her Medicaid and came & posted. Then the pregnancy counseling part happens, after which I found out that she's considering abortion.
You're just in luck that this patient came in today.... although it's not unlikely since we have patients like this most days, unfortunately.
It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.
yikes.
I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.
even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.
edit: I will add that a few thousand dollars is alot for me too. but if it meant the health of my child, you bet your ass I would go into debt to pay for it.
I still don't get why you think everyone has this option to pay back their medical bills interest free for as long as it takes.
Also, when you're truly broke and truly concerned about the health of your child, you get the care, and then when the bill comes you spend your money feeding your child instead of paying the bill. People generally have less money after they have kids, not more.
For one thing, I said just the delivery is several thousand dollars - that doesn't include the prenatal care and doesn't account for any complications.
Secondly, didn't you just a minute ago say "payment plans rarely exist"? I don't know what now makes you think that "low interest free payment plans are the norm". :? :?
my mistake. I meant to say always exist. sorry about that.
Third, it doesn't matter whether or not you think this cost is doable. If it's not doable for them, it's not doable. And then your tax dollars will eat the higher cost when they either receive care they can't pay for or deliver a baby with higher complications.
I've always said I support health care for children. this counts. I support my tax dollars going to help this woman.
BUT, you make it sound like she has no options. she does.
Fourth, I wish I made this shit up for debating purposes! But instead, I debate because I'm passionate about this stuff because it's not made up and I deal with it every day.
As for this patient, it just so happens that our Wednesday AM clinic is set aside specifically for women who need pregnancy ultrasounds and/or who need pregancy options counseling, and I coordinate the clinic and give Medicaid to those who need it. The Medicaid part comes first (since so many healthcare decisions are made based on financial concerns). I tried to give her Medicaid and came & posted. Then the pregnancy counseling part happens, after which I found out that she's considering abortion.
You're just in luck that this patient came in today.... although it's not unlikely since we have patients like this most days, unfortunately.
It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.
yikes.
I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.
even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.
edit: I will add that a few thousand dollars is alot for me too. but if it meant the health of my child, you bet your ass I would go into debt to pay for it.
I still don't get why you think everyone has this option to pay back their medical bills interest free for as long as it takes.
Also, when you're truly broke and truly concerned about the health of your child, you get the care, and then when the bill comes you spend your money feeding your child instead of paying the bill. People generally have less money after they have kids, not more.
Well, they can always just work harder and make more money :roll: Just so long as they know we will blame them for being a terrible parent if their kid struggles in school because they don't spend enough time with them after taking on the second job.
1. Everything's negotiable. You may be able to get a portion of the bill reduced. A hospital bill typically includes items for surgery, anesthesiology, medications, X-rays and other expenses. Contact information for each should be included on the bill. Try talking to the service providers to see if they will reduce their fees in any way.
2. Payment plans. If you can't pay the entire balance at once (and many people can't), work out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital. Some charge no interest; others do. Make sure the plan is realistic and based on your ability to pay. Stick to the plan. If your circumstances change, contact the medical provider and try to negotiate a different arrangement. Get all payment terms in writing by asking the medical provider to send you written confirmation so there is proof.
3. Credit reports. According to Experian and TransUnion -- two of the three major credit reporting agencies -- hospitals, doctors and medical providers rarely report payment information to the bureaus. "Accounts reported by medical businesses account for only .07 percent of our data," according to Maxine Sweet, Experian's vice president of public education. Adds TransUnion spokesman Steven Katz: "These types of debts are not typically reported unless they become delinquent and are assigned to collections." On the other hand, payments on credit cards, installment loans and lines of credit are all reported to the credit bureaus. So working out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital may be a better option for you if you're concerned about medical debt lowering your credit score.
4. Charity begins at the hospital. The majority of hospitals across the country, especially nonprofit hospitals, have charity care programs that pick up all or part of the cost of care for indigent or special needs families. Some restrict such aid to the uninsured or offer discounted services to the insured with limited incomes. Medical bill negotiators complain, however, that the availability of these programs is often poorly publicized in hospitals. Patients must often ask about them and actively seek them out. Don't be embarrassed to ask! Hospitals have financial counselors and patient advocates who may be able to offer advice.
Comments
So now she'll likely not get the prenatal care she needs because she'll have to pay for it out-of-pocket. Of course, by the time she delivers she'll qualify for Medicaid. (Even if she still didn't meet the 5-year bar, her delivery would still be covered by EMSA - Emergency Medical Services for Aliens.) Ultimately we'll pay for her childbirth and pay for the healthcare of her child, but it may be more costly to us since she won't get good prenatal care.
Her boyfriend is with her and he's from Massachusetts. He pointed out that she'd be covered under their healthcare system.
Jlew... no need to take this as a value statement. I'm just pointing out yet another crack in the current system through which human beings fall.
she doesnt have to pay for it all upfront. and it wouldnt be millions of dollars. she can even set up a payment plan.
how much would the services you denied her for cost?
if you require it - absolutely however, if you're a garage - it's better to be able to service most makes of cars as opposed to a few specialty cars.
again - that's for specialized care again ... for the majority of illnesses the wait times are manageable ... i would much prefer to have my system than yours easily as a person who could probably afford to pay for insurance ...
really tho - i don't think there is much of an argument as to which health care system is better especially if you believe that everyone should have at least some basic coverage ... the only real argument here is whether - given the funds and mandate: can the us gov't manage a program like this without fucking it up like they do a lot of programs ... that to me is the main debate ...
Wow. Do you really not see the inhumanity of this statement? Here's how it reads: "As long as I and those like me have access to healthcare, other people don't matter." It's kinda like saying, "Of course we're a free nation; it's only the slaves who aren't free," or "Of course we're a representative government; it's only the women, people of color, and those who don't own land who can't vote."
YOU are the one who should be telling the whole story about access. If the statement I bolded is true, how come it just took me - an insured person - over 3 months to be seen by a specialist? How come I have to wait 2 months just for a regular check-up with my primary care physician? How come my friend with cancer is having to wait over a month for surgery? Where are these stories in your account of our healthcare system; why are they not represented?
you are just brushing off specialized care as if its not important. it is.
and there is a very big argument which better. UHC is not better by any means. its only better in the sense that eliminates uninsured people. thats something that needs fixing.....and it can be fixed without going to UHC.
I didn't say this shouldn't be fixed. calm down. those without any access should get it. its the how is the debate.
I don't know. you tell me. what specialist did you need to see? how many doctors specialize in this in the country?
because he is good? find a new one if you don't want to wait. or maybe you think your wait time to see him would drop under UHC?
again, you think this wait time would be LESS under UHC? thats impossible.
how is that? if you feel like the priorities in a health care system is micro-brain surgery ... fine ... but to me most people die from heart disease and trauma and cancer, etc ... for the most part everyone in canada can get treated for the major illnesses ..
UHC is better for the entire population as a whole - it has been shown in numerous health care analysis ... the sad part is that in the US - you guys pay more than countries with UHC and the overall care is worse ...
sure, if you are loaded - everything is top notch ... but if you're going to evaluate a system - makes more sense to evaluate over the whole population than a segment no?
furthermore, I didnt post the source but these authors seemed much more qualified then you.
Authors: Karen Davis, Ph.D., Cathy Schoen, M.S., Stephen C. Schoenbaum, M.D., M.P.H., Michelle M. Doty, Ph.D., M.P.H., Alyssa L. Holmgren, M.P.A., Jennifer L. Kriss, and Katherine K. Shea
Editor(s): Deborah Lorber
and I'd love to know your theory on how UHC will bring down your wait times for the specialized care you claim to need. and thats IF that type of specialized care even exists anymore under a government plan.
Yes, she works, but she barely gets paid enough to live on and her employer doesn't provide health insurance. Same with her boyfriend. They need to save any extra money they can to provide for the baby.
She still has to pay at least $50 up front per visit (that's a lot for some people, ya know), and even payment plans have minimum payments that are often too much for people to afford.
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me and can't know every test or whatever she might need, but the visit today will cost about $1000. There should be a minimum of 15 prenatal visits, if everything goes well and no extra testing is needed. I'm not entirely sure about the cost of delivery off hand, but I'm pretty sure it's several thousand dollars.
I guess we have different definitions of specialized care then. but for me certain cancer and trauma treatments qualify.
:roll: the system can be improved for the entire population without going to UHC.
I agree.
If everyone had good primary care though, there would be much less need for specialists.
can you point to any other country's health care system that is better that is not socialized?
I never said my wait time would be LESS under UHC. It may or may not. (I think it's possible that it would, because then patients could be more spread around amongst the docs and not have to be limited in who they see.) But if I'm going to wait this long anyway, I would definitely prefer that it's because everyone is receiving care.
It's simple... I am more qualified than anyone as a source for my experiences.
Again, I never said UHC would necessarily decrease wait times.
maybe they should have put more thought into having a baby then no? I make plenty of money to live and having a baby is still a few years away because I don't have enough money saved to comfortable provide for a child.
and just because neither employers provide insurance, doesnt mean that cant have any. why can't she buy her own insurance plan?
from what I've seen, payment plans always exist. and even if they do, providers are always willing to set one up that is doable.
if prenatal care was important to her and her bf, they should do. several thousand dollars is doable
are you a Doctor?
"Several thousand dollars is doable"?? Again, what an elitist statement! It seems that you don't have a great understanding of the plight of some people in this country/world.
And with regard to your suggestion that they should have put more thought into having a baby, they are right now in clinic deciding whethre or not to have an abortion because they can't afford a baby right now. (She was on the pill, by the way.)
Do I have to be a doctor to know how long it took to get an appointment?
It's very clear here that you work for the big guns in the financial industry, if you think several thousand dollars is no big deal. Not everyone is as lucky as you and I in their income. You sound like McCain when he said a million dollars is middle class or whatever nonsense it was. Holy out of touch batman.
:roll: yes, even for low income people, several thousand dollars is doable. especially when it comes to the health of a their child and low interest free payment plans are the norm.
I have a feeling you make up all this shit just for debating purposes. funny how this story seems to progress right along with your arguments.
no, but you should be before you claim to have more experience that a long list of MDs who wrote that report
yikes.
I didnt say it was no big deal. nice job twisting my words though.
even for the poorest people in this country. a few thousand dollars is doable considering if can be paid back interest free for as long as it takes.
edit: I will add that a few thousand dollars is alot for me too. but if it meant the health of my child, you bet your ass I would go into debt to pay for it.
Exactly the kind of thinking that tanked our economy. "Eh, who cares how little they make, let's just give them money. They can pay it back eventually."
Doable and no big deal are as similar to me as offended and annoyed were to you elsewhere. Bottom line is you dismissed the argument like it was meaningless. I don't care what rates you get (it's gone from low interest to no interest I see, and I've never heard of a loan that gives you as long as you want to repay), several thousand dollars is a huge burden to most people in this country. Just ask my brother, who also has a JD and is an excellent worker but can't find a job to save his life, how he would feel about saddling himself with a few thousand dollars right now with the prospect of the expenses of a child a few months away.
I see your edit... wouldn't it be nice, though, if you didn't have to choose between the prospect of long-term debt and the health of your child? Boy, gotta love the choices this system gives us.
For one thing, I said just the delivery is several thousand dollars - that doesn't include the prenatal care and doesn't account for any complications.
Secondly, didn't you just a minute ago say "payment plans rarely exist"? I don't know what now makes you think that "low interest free payment plans are the norm". :? :?
Third, it doesn't matter whether or not you think this cost is doable. If it's not doable for them, it's not doable. And then your tax dollars will eat the higher cost when they either receive care they can't pay for or deliver a baby with higher complications.
Fourth, I wish I made this shit up for debating purposes! But instead, I debate because I'm passionate about this stuff because it's not made up and I deal with it every day.
As for this patient, it just so happens that our Wednesday AM clinic is set aside specifically for women who need pregnancy ultrasounds and/or who need pregancy options counseling, and I coordinate the clinic and give Medicaid to those who need it. The Medicaid part comes first (since so many healthcare decisions are made based on financial concerns). I tried to give her Medicaid and came & posted. Then the pregnancy counseling part happens, after which I found out that she's considering abortion.
You're just in luck that this patient came in today.... although it's not unlikely since we have patients like this most days, unfortunately.
Are you actually denying that I have more experience than they do when it comes to MY OWN EXPERIENCES???
I still don't get why you think everyone has this option to pay back their medical bills interest free for as long as it takes.
Also, when you're truly broke and truly concerned about the health of your child, you get the care, and then when the bill comes you spend your money feeding your child instead of paying the bill. People generally have less money after they have kids, not more.
my mistake. I meant to say always exist. sorry about that.
I've always said I support health care for children. this counts. I support my tax dollars going to help this woman.
BUT, you make it sound like she has no options. she does.
it certainly is a perfect example to discuss
Well, they can always just work harder and make more money :roll: Just so long as they know we will blame them for being a terrible parent if their kid struggles in school because they don't spend enough time with them after taking on the second job.
I'm just going off personal experience. and a quick google search confirmed what I'm talking about
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card- ... s-1266.php
here are just 4 of 15 tips to high medical bills.
1. Everything's negotiable. You may be able to get a portion of the bill reduced. A hospital bill typically includes items for surgery, anesthesiology, medications, X-rays and other expenses. Contact information for each should be included on the bill. Try talking to the service providers to see if they will reduce their fees in any way.
2. Payment plans. If you can't pay the entire balance at once (and many people can't), work out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital. Some charge no interest; others do. Make sure the plan is realistic and based on your ability to pay. Stick to the plan. If your circumstances change, contact the medical provider and try to negotiate a different arrangement. Get all payment terms in writing by asking the medical provider to send you written confirmation so there is proof.
3. Credit reports. According to Experian and TransUnion -- two of the three major credit reporting agencies -- hospitals, doctors and medical providers rarely report payment information to the bureaus. "Accounts reported by medical businesses account for only .07 percent of our data," according to Maxine Sweet, Experian's vice president of public education. Adds TransUnion spokesman Steven Katz: "These types of debts are not typically reported unless they become delinquent and are assigned to collections." On the other hand, payments on credit cards, installment loans and lines of credit are all reported to the credit bureaus. So working out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital may be a better option for you if you're concerned about medical debt lowering your credit score.
4. Charity begins at the hospital. The majority of hospitals across the country, especially nonprofit hospitals, have charity care programs that pick up all or part of the cost of care for indigent or special needs families. Some restrict such aid to the uninsured or offer discounted services to the insured with limited incomes. Medical bill negotiators complain, however, that the availability of these programs is often poorly publicized in hospitals. Patients must often ask about them and actively seek them out. Don't be embarrassed to ask! Hospitals have financial counselors and patient advocates who may be able to offer advice.