do you really need to keep arguing about the "free" comments? We all know there is a cost and by "free" it means you don't get harassed for an insurance card and denied treatment because you don't have your card and/or you aren't refused treatment because you aren't insured or have $10,000 in your pocket to fix your broken finger
no, absolutely not. people like dunk probably actually believe its free.
i've never received a bill...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
if i got stabbed by a mentalist i'd have to pay for my medical care? thats fucked up.
Who do you think should pay for it? I'd agree with the "mentalist".
There is no such thing as free health care...someone's always paying for it.
of course its paid for... but it means everyone gets a chance to receive the same level of care throughtout the country regardless of their background... if someone is wealthy and wish to take private medical care then that is their right... but for the vast majority of Europeans the ability to use a nationalised health system is extremely welcome.
if the US didnt start a new war in the next 6-10 years then they could give everyone in the US free healthcare... and a car... and some nice new flags to wave
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
of course its paid for... but it means everyone gets a chance to receive the same level of care throughtout the country regardless of their background... if someone is wealthy and wish to take private medical care then that is their right... but for the vast majority of Europeans the ability to use a nationalised health system is extremely welcome.
ok, so you acknowledge calling it FREE is completely ignorant and false?
if the US didnt start a new war in the next 6-10 years then they could give everyone in the US free healthcare... and a car... and some nice new flags to wave
the US didn't start a war in 2001. and healthcare is much more expensive then all the wars we've ever fought in combined.
and people dont think we need to discuss this? wow. you were billed on every paycheck you get. dunk, you seem like a smart guy, are you being serious?
my tax levels on my income are the same like for like if i earned the same money in the US.
except in the US i'd need to purchase medical care.
the NHS system in the UK is regarded as 'free' - a term which is used maybe rightly or wrongly - and we all know that we are indirectly supporting that 'free' medical care... but take an 8 year old kid... never paid a cent in her life towards taxes and yet she'll be seen for free... a 71 year old widow who has no savings because her money was invested in some US bank which screwed up... she would get her cataracts done for 'free'... she has no money and has probably paid tax all her life... but all of our taxes arent used for this NHS... in a like for like situation i'd be worse off in America as i'd need medical insurance for my family.. my taxes would still be roughly the same give or take a 1% here or there.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
and people dont think we need to discuss this? wow. you were billed on every paycheck you get. dunk, you seem like a smart guy, are you being serious?
my tax levels on my income are the same like for like if i earned the same money in the US.
except in the US i'd need to purchase medical care.
the NHS system in the UK is regarded as 'free' - a term which is used maybe rightly or wrongly - and we all know that we are indirectly supporting that 'free' medical care... but take an 8 year old kid... never paid a cent in her life towards taxes and yet she'll be seen for free... a 71 year old widow who has no savings because her money was invested in some US bank which screwed up... she would get her cataracts done for 'free'... she has no money and has probably paid tax all her life... but all of our taxes arent used for this NHS... in a like for like situation i'd be worse off in America as i'd need medical insurance for my family.. my taxes would still be roughly the same give or take a 1% here or there.
unless you show some actual numbers of comparative tax rates, you can make up anything you'd like to fit your argument.
of course its paid for... but it means everyone gets a chance to receive the same level of care throughtout the country regardless of their background... if someone is wealthy and wish to take private medical care then that is their right... but for the vast majority of Europeans the ability to use a nationalised health system is extremely welcome.
ok, so you acknowledge calling it FREE is completely ignorant and false?
if the US didnt start a new war in the next 6-10 years then they could give everyone in the US free healthcare... and a car... and some nice new flags to wave
the US didn't start a war in 2001. and healthcare is much more expensive then all the wars we've ever fought in combined.
no.. its regarded as FREE here.. its not ignorance... its merely a colloquialism.. just like people saying "i can cycle around on these designated cycle paths for free, its great!" - its not actually free as the Local Authority (using our taxes) maintains and keeps those cycle paths available for use... but to the user at the time its free. we get FREE education here in Scotland... its not really free... but its called that... just as we can get free condoms at the Sex Clinics... but someone paid for them.. but to the horny 16 year old not wanting either a disease or a baby... they are free.
i never said it started a war in 2001.. i also cant debate against someone who uses then and than wrongly... but out of interest quote me the figures that prove that above statement... you won't be able to... your wars have cost that much that my screen cannot hold that many 0000000's
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
my tax levels on my income are the same like for like if i earned the same money in the US.
except in the US i'd need to purchase medical care.
the NHS system in the UK is regarded as 'free' - a term which is used maybe rightly or wrongly - and we all know that we are indirectly supporting that 'free' medical care... but take an 8 year old kid... never paid a cent in her life towards taxes and yet she'll be seen for free... a 71 year old widow who has no savings because her money was invested in some US bank which screwed up... she would get her cataracts done for 'free'... she has no money and has probably paid tax all her life... but all of our taxes arent used for this NHS... in a like for like situation i'd be worse off in America as i'd need medical insurance for my family.. my taxes would still be roughly the same give or take a 1% here or there.
unless you show some actual numbers of comparative tax rates, you can make up anything you'd like to fit your argument.
The way you keep making up numbers like health care would be more expensive than every war the US has ever fought combined? I mean, I know we've got a big population, but we spend more on defense than every other country in the world combined... that's a little histrionic.
no.. its regarded as FREE here.. its not ignorance... its merely a colloquialism.. just like people saying "i can cycle around on these designated cycle paths for free, its great!" - its not actually free as the Local Authority (using our taxes) maintains and keeps those cycle paths available for use... but to the user at the time its free. we get FREE education here in Scotland... its not really free... but its called that... just as we can get free condoms at the Sex Clinics... but someone paid for them.. but to the horny 16 year old not wanting either a disease or a baby... they are free.
but its not FREE. its misleading and ignorant. doctors, nurses, equipment, hospitals, are get paid. its comes directly out of your pocket.
but out of interest quote me the figures that prove that above statement... you won't be able to...your wars have cost that much that my screen cannot hold that many 0000000's
The way you keep making up numbers like health care would be more expensive than every war the US has ever fought combined? I mean, I know we've got a big population, but we spend more on defense than every other country in the world combined... that's a little histrionic.
I'm all for a huge cut in military spending. I'd like a 25% cut. healthcare is still more expensive then our military spending.
thanks for proving my point. because I dont care how much you make, I'll assume about $50k. which means you get "billed" 40%. here you'd get billed 25%
no.. its regarded as FREE here.. its not ignorance... its merely a colloquialism.. just like people saying "i can cycle around on these designated cycle paths for free, its great!" - its not actually free as the Local Authority (using our taxes) maintains and keeps those cycle paths available for use... but to the user at the time its free. we get FREE education here in Scotland... its not really free... but its called that... just as we can get free condoms at the Sex Clinics... but someone paid for them.. but to the horny 16 year old not wanting either a disease or a baby... they are free.
but its not FREE. its misleading and ignorant. doctors, nurses, equipment, hospitals, are get paid. its comes directly out of your pocket.
it's misleading if you are ignorant...
we all know its paid for INdirectly from our pockets... not directly.. but the colloquial term of 'free' still stands... just as FREE education until the age of 16 is still a valid statement... its FREE... clearly this must be a cultural thing as all UK'ers and euros will say as such..
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
we all know its paid for INdirectly from our pockets... not directly.. but the colloquial term of 'free' still stands... just as FREE education until the age of 16 is still a valid statement... its FREE... clearly this must be a cultural thing as all UK'ers and euros will say as such..
maybe it is a cultural thing. you've been brainwashed into believing its free. when it fact its not.
thanks for proving my point. because I dont care how much you make, I'll assume about $50k. which means you get "billed" 40%. here you'd get billed 25%
remember the currency exchange rate.
$50k is about £30k in our money.
so 22% tax just... against your 25%
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
we all know its paid for INdirectly from our pockets... not directly.. but the colloquial term of 'free' still stands... just as FREE education until the age of 16 is still a valid statement... its FREE... clearly this must be a cultural thing as all UK'ers and euros will say as such..
maybe it is a cultural thing. you've been brainwashed into believing its free. when it fact its not.
just as you've been brainwashed to think the US of A is the greatest country in the world. when in fact its not.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
remember the currency exchange rate.
$50k is about £30k in our money.
so 22% tax just... against your 25%
uh huh. still a bit more they the "percent or two"
eh?
if i earn $50k in America my tax is 25%
if earn that same $50k .. which is £30k in the Uk... my tax is 22%
point out to me where i would pay higher taxes? i save 3%...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
The way you keep making up numbers like health care would be more expensive than every war the US has ever fought combined? I mean, I know we've got a big population, but we spend more on defense than every other country in the world combined... that's a little histrionic.
I'm all for a huge cut in military spending. I'd like a 25% cut. healthcare is still more expensive then our military spending.
Is there any source for that? Because in all the debating about the health care system, both here, on tv, in the newspaper, anywhere I've looked or seen or read anything, you are the ONLY person I've heard make this claim that it would be more expensive than our military spending and all our wars combined. I've heard a lot of inflated talk about astronomical costs, but nobody seems to think it'd be as expensive as you do, including Hannity and Limbaugh.
*edit* saw the link you posted... I assume you're operating under the assumption that UHC would cost more than social security and medicare combined? Since I've been arguing that you could do away with both programs and combine it all under a health care moniker, I stand partially corrected. It would be more than our military budget, which is a good thing. But I still don't see how it is more expensive than every war we've ever fought combined? I also am curious where the $30 trillion underfunded comes from... as it looks like it gets $600 billion right now... you're talking about it's annual budget being 2% of what we spend on it annually? Our national debt isn't even $30 trillion.
just as you've been brainwashed to think the US of A is the greatest country in the world. when in fact its not.
:roll: great comeback. I hope you learned today that your healthcare is far from free.
i hope you learned that it's impossible for me to learn any more stuff about stuff i already know about.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
no.. its regarded as FREE here.. its not ignorance... its merely a colloquialism.. just like people saying "i can cycle around on these designated cycle paths for free, its great!" - its not actually free as the Local Authority (using our taxes) maintains and keeps those cycle paths available for use... but to the user at the time its free. we get FREE education here in Scotland... its not really free... but its called that... just as we can get free condoms at the Sex Clinics... but someone paid for them.. but to the horny 16 year old not wanting either a disease or a baby... they are free.
but its not FREE. its misleading and ignorant. doctors, nurses, equipment, hospitals, are get paid. its comes directly out of your pocket.
it's misleading if you are ignorant...
we all know its paid for INdirectly from our pockets... not directly.. but the colloquial term of 'free' still stands... just as FREE education until the age of 16 is still a valid statement... its FREE... clearly this must be a cultural thing as all UK'ers and euros will say as such..
It's not a cultural thing. We in the U.S. all refer to our libraries, school, roads, etc. as free (except for the ones where you have to pay to use them). Excellent comparison, by the way.
The way you keep making up numbers like health care would be more expensive than every war the US has ever fought combined? I mean, I know we've got a big population, but we spend more on defense than every other country in the world combined... that's a little histrionic.
I'm all for a huge cut in military spending. I'd like a 25% cut. healthcare is still more expensive then our military spending.
Is there any source for that? Because in all the debating about the health care system, both here, on tv, in the newspaper, anywhere I've looked or seen or read anything, you are the ONLY person I've heard make this claim that it would be more expensive than our military spending and all our wars combined. I've heard a lot of inflated talk about astronomical costs, but nobody seems to think it'd be as expensive as you do, including Hannity and Limbaugh.
*edit* saw the link you posted... I assume you're operating under the assumption that UHC would cost more than social security and medicare combined? Since I've been arguing that you could do away with both programs and combine it all under a health care moniker, I stand partially corrected. It would be more than our military budget, which is a good thing. But I still don't see how it is more expensive than every war we've ever fought combined? I also am curious where the $30 trillion underfunded comes from... as it looks like it gets $600 billion right now... you're talking about it's annual budget being 2% of what we spend on it annually? Our national debt isn't even $30 trillion.
I don't think looking at the cost of healthcare under the current, flawed system is valid anyway. We spend WAY more per capita than other countries do (without receiving the same benefits), and part of the point is that we don't need to.
It's not a cultural thing. We in the U.S. all refer to our libraries, school, roads, etc. as free (except for the ones where you have to pay to use them). Excellent comparison, by the way.
i really can't believe someone would argue this ... :?
It's not a cultural thing. We in the U.S. all refer to our libraries, school, roads, etc. as free (except for the ones where you have to pay to use them). Excellent comparison, by the way.
i really can't believe someone would argue this ... :?
You don't believe someone would argue against which side of this? :?
Is there any source for that? Because in all the debating about the health care system, both here, on tv, in the newspaper, anywhere I've looked or seen or read anything, you are the ONLY person I've heard make this claim that it would be more expensive than our military spending and all our wars combined. I've heard a lot of inflated talk about astronomical costs, but nobody seems to think it'd be as expensive as you do, including Hannity and Limbaugh.
you listen to Hannity and Limbaugh?
my "all wars combined" comment was an exaggeration. WWII cost like a quadrillion dollar didnt it? all I'm saying is UHC would cost more then our military budget and the Iraq/Afgan wars. and of course any source I give you is going to be an estimate because we've never had UHC
*edit* saw the link you posted... I assume you're operating under the assumption that UHC would cost more than social security and medicare combined? Since I've been arguing that you could do away with both programs and combine it all under a health care moniker, I stand partially corrected. It would be more than our military budget, which is a good thing. But I still don't see how it is more expensive than every war we've ever fought combined? I also am curious where the $30 trillion underfunded comes from... as it looks like it gets $600 billion right now... you're talking about it's annual budget being 2% of what we spend on it annually? Our national debt isn't even $30 trillion.
Those estimates, reported in the latest Financial Report of the U.S. Government, assume that Medicare payments to doctors will be slashed drastically, by some 41% over the next nine years, as required by current law. It won't happen. Every year for the past five years, Congress has overridden the mandatory cuts. As for future cuts, the Financial Report says drily, "Reductions of this magnitude are not feasible and are very unlikely to occur fully in practice." So in reality, Medicare will go into the hole even faster than official projections reflect. And they show that if Medicare had to be accounted for like a company pension fund, it would be underfunded by $34 trillion.
It's not a cultural thing. We in the U.S. all refer to our libraries, school, roads, etc. as free (except for the ones where you have to pay to use them). Excellent comparison, by the way.
i really can't believe someone would argue this ... :?
yea, what an asshole I am right? how can I possibly argue against calling something free that in reality, isnt free at all.
It's not a cultural thing. We in the U.S. all refer to our libraries, school, roads, etc. as free (except for the ones where you have to pay to use them). Excellent comparison, by the way.
i really can't believe someone would argue this ... :?
yea, what an asshole I am right? how can I possibly argue against calling something free that in reality, isnt free at all.
No. How can you not understand that Dunk understands the indirect costs? And how can you not understand the use of the word free to mean that you don't have to pay for each use of a service, especially since we use it that way for most everything else paid for by our taxes? You're just being argumentative. Actually, come to think of it, you are kind of being an asshole.
No. How can you not understand that Dunk understands the indirect costs? And how can you not understand the use of the word free to mean that you don't have to pay for each use of a service, especially since we use it that way for most everything else paid for by our taxes? You're just being argumentative. Actually, come to think of it, you are kind of being an asshole.
heres a solution. stop calling it free. you know why? because its not.
Comments
i've never received a bill...
:roll:
and people dont think we need to discuss this? wow. you were billed on every paycheck you get. dunk, you seem like a smart guy, are you being serious?
of course its paid for... but it means everyone gets a chance to receive the same level of care throughtout the country regardless of their background... if someone is wealthy and wish to take private medical care then that is their right... but for the vast majority of Europeans the ability to use a nationalised health system is extremely welcome.
if the US didnt start a new war in the next 6-10 years then they could give everyone in the US free healthcare... and a car... and some nice new flags to wave
ok, so you acknowledge calling it FREE is completely ignorant and false?
the US didn't start a war in 2001. and healthcare is much more expensive then all the wars we've ever fought in combined.
my tax levels on my income are the same like for like if i earned the same money in the US.
except in the US i'd need to purchase medical care.
the NHS system in the UK is regarded as 'free' - a term which is used maybe rightly or wrongly - and we all know that we are indirectly supporting that 'free' medical care... but take an 8 year old kid... never paid a cent in her life towards taxes and yet she'll be seen for free... a 71 year old widow who has no savings because her money was invested in some US bank which screwed up... she would get her cataracts done for 'free'... she has no money and has probably paid tax all her life... but all of our taxes arent used for this NHS... in a like for like situation i'd be worse off in America as i'd need medical insurance for my family.. my taxes would still be roughly the same give or take a 1% here or there.
unless you show some actual numbers of comparative tax rates, you can make up anything you'd like to fit your argument.
no.. its regarded as FREE here.. its not ignorance... its merely a colloquialism.. just like people saying "i can cycle around on these designated cycle paths for free, its great!" - its not actually free as the Local Authority (using our taxes) maintains and keeps those cycle paths available for use... but to the user at the time its free. we get FREE education here in Scotland... its not really free... but its called that... just as we can get free condoms at the Sex Clinics... but someone paid for them.. but to the horny 16 year old not wanting either a disease or a baby... they are free.
i never said it started a war in 2001.. i also cant debate against someone who uses then and than wrongly...
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/us/us_taxes.asp
http://www.worldwide-tax.com/uk/uk_taxes_rates.asp
The way you keep making up numbers like health care would be more expensive than every war the US has ever fought combined? I mean, I know we've got a big population, but we spend more on defense than every other country in the world combined... that's a little histrionic.
but its not FREE. its misleading and ignorant. doctors, nurses, equipment, hospitals, are get paid. its comes directly out of your pocket.
piece of cake chief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ral_budget
and keep in mind this is ONLY medicare/medicaid. UHC would cost much more then these programs.
also, medicare is 30 Trillon underfunded and the program will run out of money in 11 years.
http://www.healthcaremaryland.org/node/17
I'm all for a huge cut in military spending. I'd like a 25% cut. healthcare is still more expensive then our military spending.
thanks for proving my point. because I dont care how much you make, I'll assume about $50k. which means you get "billed" 40%. here you'd get billed 25%
it's misleading if you are ignorant...
we all know its paid for INdirectly from our pockets... not directly.. but the colloquial term of 'free' still stands... just as FREE education until the age of 16 is still a valid statement... its FREE... clearly this must be a cultural thing as all UK'ers and euros will say as such..
maybe it is a cultural thing. you've been brainwashed into believing its free. when it fact its not.
remember the currency exchange rate.
$50k is about £30k in our money.
so 22% tax just... against your 25%
just as you've been brainwashed to think the US of A is the greatest country in the world. when in fact its not.
uh huh. still a bit more they the "percent or two"
:roll: great comeback. I hope you learned today that your healthcare is far from free.
Source, please?
Edit: Spoke too soon. I see now that you posted a Wikipedia article, which I'll have to read later.
eh?
if i earn $50k in America my tax is 25%
if earn that same $50k .. which is £30k in the Uk... my tax is 22%
point out to me where i would pay higher taxes? i save 3%...
Is there any source for that? Because in all the debating about the health care system, both here, on tv, in the newspaper, anywhere I've looked or seen or read anything, you are the ONLY person I've heard make this claim that it would be more expensive than our military spending and all our wars combined. I've heard a lot of inflated talk about astronomical costs, but nobody seems to think it'd be as expensive as you do, including Hannity and Limbaugh.
*edit* saw the link you posted... I assume you're operating under the assumption that UHC would cost more than social security and medicare combined? Since I've been arguing that you could do away with both programs and combine it all under a health care moniker, I stand partially corrected. It would be more than our military budget, which is a good thing. But I still don't see how it is more expensive than every war we've ever fought combined? I also am curious where the $30 trillion underfunded comes from... as it looks like it gets $600 billion right now... you're talking about it's annual budget being 2% of what we spend on it annually? Our national debt isn't even $30 trillion.
i hope you learned that it's impossible for me to learn any more stuff about stuff i already know about.
It's not a cultural thing. We in the U.S. all refer to our libraries, school, roads, etc. as free (except for the ones where you have to pay to use them). Excellent comparison, by the way.
I don't think looking at the cost of healthcare under the current, flawed system is valid anyway. We spend WAY more per capita than other countries do (without receiving the same benefits), and part of the point is that we don't need to.
i really can't believe someone would argue this ... :?
You don't believe someone would argue against which side of this? :?
you listen to Hannity and Limbaugh?
my "all wars combined" comment was an exaggeration. WWII cost like a quadrillion dollar didnt it? all I'm saying is UHC would cost more then our military budget and the Iraq/Afgan wars. and of course any source I give you is going to be an estimate because we've never had UHC
the $30 trillion is an estimate looking forward.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/03/news/ec ... /index.htm
Those estimates, reported in the latest Financial Report of the U.S. Government, assume that Medicare payments to doctors will be slashed drastically, by some 41% over the next nine years, as required by current law. It won't happen. Every year for the past five years, Congress has overridden the mandatory cuts. As for future cuts, the Financial Report says drily, "Reductions of this magnitude are not feasible and are very unlikely to occur fully in practice." So in reality, Medicare will go into the hole even faster than official projections reflect. And they show that if Medicare had to be accounted for like a company pension fund, it would be underfunded by $34 trillion.
yea, what an asshole I am right? how can I possibly argue against calling something free that in reality, isnt free at all.
No. How can you not understand that Dunk understands the indirect costs? And how can you not understand the use of the word free to mean that you don't have to pay for each use of a service, especially since we use it that way for most everything else paid for by our taxes? You're just being argumentative. Actually, come to think of it, you are kind of being an asshole.
heres a solution. stop calling it free. you know why? because its not.