Third, it doesn't matter whether or not you think this cost is doable. If it's not doable for them, it's not doable. And then your tax dollars will eat the higher cost when they either receive care they can't pay for or deliver a baby with higher complications.
I've always said I support health care for children. this counts. I support my tax dollars going to help this woman.
Wait - are you saying we should pay for healthcare for all patient who are "with child" then?
BUT, you make it sound like she has no options. she does.
I'm sorry, what were those options again? Bear in mind, please, that she needs options she can count on - not "your loan will probably be low-interest" or "you can afford it as long as you don't have any complications".
Fourth, I wish I made this shit up for debating purposes! But instead, I debate because I'm passionate about this stuff because it's not made up and I deal with it every day.
As for this patient, it just so happens that our Wednesday AM clinic is set aside specifically for women who need pregnancy ultrasounds and/or who need pregancy options counseling, and I coordinate the clinic and give Medicaid to those who need it. The Medicaid part comes first (since so many healthcare decisions are made based on financial concerns). I tried to give her Medicaid and came & posted. Then the pregnancy counseling part happens, after which I found out that she's considering abortion.
You're just in luck that this patient came in today.... although it's not unlikely since we have patients like this most days, unfortunately.
it certainly is a perfect example to discuss
Like I said, I have many, many of these perfect examples. They shape my opinion, not the other way around. I can post a new one every day if you'd like.
Wait - are you saying we should pay for healthcare for all patient who are "with child" then?
I would support a plan that helped or completely subsidized pregnant women. but I would need to see specifics. I would prefer it be based on need and not an open checkbook.
I'm sorry, what were those options again? Bear in mind, please, that she needs options she can count on - not "your loan will probably be low-interest" or "you can afford it as long as you don't have any complications".
just because you dont like the options, doesn't mean they dont exist.
they could be more careful while having sex if they didnt want children. you said she was on the pill, great. im sure more precautions could have been taken. like a condom or withdrawal method in additional to the pill.. no, we dont know if that was used, but its safe to assume it wasn't.
1. Everything's negotiable. You may be able to get a portion of the bill reduced. A hospital bill typically includes items for surgery, anesthesiology, medications, X-rays and other expenses. Contact information for each should be included on the bill. Try talking to the service providers to see if they will reduce their fees in any way.
2. Payment plans. If you can't pay the entire balance at once (and many people can't), work out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital. Some charge no interest; others do. Make sure the plan is realistic and based on your ability to pay. Stick to the plan. If your circumstances change, contact the medical provider and try to negotiate a different arrangement. Get all payment terms in writing by asking the medical provider to send you written confirmation so there is proof.
3. Credit reports. According to Experian and TransUnion -- two of the three major credit reporting agencies -- hospitals, doctors and medical providers rarely report payment information to the bureaus. "Accounts reported by medical businesses account for only .07 percent of our data," according to Maxine Sweet, Experian's vice president of public education. Adds TransUnion spokesman Steven Katz: "These types of debts are not typically reported unless they become delinquent and are assigned to collections." On the other hand, payments on credit cards, installment loans and lines of credit are all reported to the credit bureaus. So working out a payment plan with the doctor or hospital may be a better option for you if you're concerned about medical debt lowering your credit score.
4. Charity begins at the hospital. The majority of hospitals across the country, especially nonprofit hospitals, have charity care programs that pick up all or part of the cost of care for indigent or special needs families. Some restrict such aid to the uninsured or offer discounted services to the insured with limited incomes. Medical bill negotiators complain, however, that the availability of these programs is often poorly publicized in hospitals. Patients must often ask about them and actively seek them out. Don't be embarrassed to ask! Hospitals have financial counselors and patient advocates who may be able to offer advice.
These are all great tips, but they are only possibilities. My point was that there are many cracks that people can slip through.
FYI... I just called the billing office for our hospital. The woman I spoke with said we don't charge interest for payment plans and there are some patients who take a long time to pay off their bills (although she stopped short of saying you can take as long as you'd like). She also said that if you miss two payments you're sent to collections, at which point you're subject to the policies and interest rates of the collection agencies.
Wait - are you saying we should pay for healthcare for all patient who are "with child" then?
I would support a plan that helped or completely subsidized pregnant women. but I would need to see specifics. I would prefer it be based on need and not an open checkbook.
I'm sorry, what were those options again? Bear in mind, please, that she needs options she can count on - not "your loan will probably be low-interest" or "you can afford it as long as you don't have any complications".
just because you dont like the options, doesn't mean they dont exist.
they could be more careful while having sex if they didnt want children. you said she was on the pill, great. im sure more precautions could have been taken. like a condom or withdrawal method in additional to the pill.. no, we dont know if that was used, but its safe to assume it wasn't.
she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.
You don't think there's something wrong with the idea that a given citizen's choice of career might be dictated by a private insurance company? We prosecute the mafia for saying things like "no sir, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that accidents happen and we are offering you protection should you choose to play ball with us."
she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.
You don't think there's something wrong with the idea that a given citizen's choice of career might be dictated by a private insurance company? We prosecute the mafia for saying things like "no sir, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that accidents happen and we are offering you protection should you choose to play ball with us."
You know SS, sometimes I think you're kind of an ass.... but sometimes you crack me up!
she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.
You don't think there's something wrong with the idea that a given citizen's choice of career might be dictated by a private insurance company? We prosecute the mafia for saying things like "no sir, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that accidents happen and we are offering you protection should you choose to play ball with us."
you make it sound like employer provider healthcare is rare. and I'm not saying I like it, I'm just saying that its an option.
I worked for a company out of college that didnt offer health insurance. I bought my own with a lower payment and high deducible. I worked hard and bettered myself and was able to get a job with a better company that paid 100% of my premium. I didnt sit around and hope someone would pay for my care. I put that responsibility on myself.
asking if she could be seen by one of our docs. She has the list of the docs her health insurance will allow her to see and she's just going down the list calling every one. She's was on the L's by the time she got to me. I had to turn her away too.
Gotta love that "choice" provided to us by the private insurance companies!
I don't see what that has to do with the insurance companies. All it really says is it's hard to find a doctor.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.
You don't think there's something wrong with the idea that a given citizen's choice of career might be dictated by a private insurance company? We prosecute the mafia for saying things like "no sir, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that accidents happen and we are offering you protection should you choose to play ball with us."
you make it sound like employer provider healthcare is rare. and I'm not saying I like it, I'm just saying that its an option.
I worked for a company out of college that didnt offer health insurance. I bought my own with a lower payment and high deducible. I worked hard and bettered myself and was able to get a job with a better company that paid 100% of my premium. I didnt sit around and hope someone would pay for my care. I put that responsibility on myself.
It's not just enough to find an employer that offers health care, you have to get the right KIND of health care. There's no telling if your employer will offer a plan that meets your needs, or if buying a private plan that does meet your needs is affordable. Add children into the mix... and it's a real crapshoot.
But there's the argument I've been waiting for that you've managed to keep hidden so long, which I must admit is impressive. But all comes down to "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps!" Of course, it is always that simple.
asking if she could be seen by one of our docs. She has the list of the docs her health insurance will allow her to see and she's just going down the list calling every one. She's was on the L's by the time she got to me. I had to turn her away too.
Gotta love that "choice" provided to us by the private insurance companies!
I don't see what that has to do with the insurance companies. All it really says is it's hard to find a doctor.
The insurance companies limit your choice of doctor. You cannot see a doctor not on their list.
But there's the argument I've been waiting for that you've managed to keep hidden so long, which I must admit is impressive. But all comes down to "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps!" Of course, it is always that simple.
of course its not simple, life isn't.... you of all people should know that.
Jlew... I get your point that the WHO hasn't produced a world health ranking report in nearly 10 years (although that's not THAT long), so I tried to think of something else that might be a reasonable indicator of health. I looked up the WHO/UNICEF/UNFPA/The World Bank estimates of maternal mortality for 2005 and here's what I found out:
There are 33 countries with a lower maternal mortality ratio (maternal deaths per 100,000 live births) AND a higher lifetime risk of maternal death (1 in x):
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Bosnia & Herzegovina
Canada
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Malta
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Poland
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
United Kingdom
Average of industrialized countries
Our lifetime risk of maternal death (1:4,800) is more than twice as high as:
Australia (1:13,300)
Austria (1:21,500)
Bosnia & Herzegovina (1:29,000)
Canada (1:11,000)
Croatia (1:10,500)
Czech Republic (1:18,100)
Denmark (1:17,800)
Germany (1:19,200)
Greece (1:25,900)
Hungary (1:13,300)
Iceland (1:12,700)
Ireland (1:47,600 - wow!)
Italy (1:26,600)
Japan (1:11,600)
Netherlands (1:10,200)
Poland (1:10,600)
Slovakia (1:13,800)
Slovenia (1:14,200)
Spain (1:16,400)
Sweden (1:17,400)
Switzerland (1:13,800)
Average for industrialized countried (1:8,000)
asking if she could be seen by one of our docs. She has the list of the docs her health insurance will allow her to see and she's just going down the list calling every one. She's was on the L's by the time she got to me. I had to turn her away too.
Gotta love that "choice" provided to us by the private insurance companies!
I don't see what that has to do with the insurance companies. All it really says is it's hard to find a doctor.
The point is that insurance companies limit - not expand - your choice of doctors.
can you point to any other country's health care system that is better that is not socialized?
your assertation is the UHC is not the solution to deliver health care ... is there a country out there that is delivering a better health care system that isn't socialized?
can you point to any other country's health care system that is better that is not socialized?
your assertation is the UHC is not the solution to deliver health care ... is there a country out there that is delivering a better health care system that isn't socialized?
thats a loaded question if I ever saw one.
the government will need to be involved in some way to provide the care for everyone. but we dont need UHC to accomplish that.
the government will need to be involved in some way to provide the care for everyone. but we dont need UHC to accomplish that.
i don't see how it's loaded ... it seems you are arguing against UHC but cannot point to an alternative system that ultimately will deliver the type of health care everyone would want ...
the government will need to be involved in some way to provide the care for everyone. but we dont need UHC to accomplish that.
i don't see how it's loaded ... it seems you are arguing against UHC but cannot point to an alternative system that ultimately will deliver the type of health care everyone would want ...
because that alternative system doesnt exist yet. thats what you people can't seem to grasp. we need a new line of thinking in order to make the system better for everyone. I've given my thoughts many times as to how that would look. but I'm no expert, I'm just one guy with an opinion and a voice.
I'm not willing to accept UHC just because other countries do it. I see too many potential problems and I'm also not willing to just hand over control to the government. their track record proves less then stellar on many programs.
the government will need to be involved in some way to provide the care for everyone. but we dont need UHC to accomplish that.
i don't see how it's loaded ... it seems you are arguing against UHC but cannot point to an alternative system that ultimately will deliver the type of health care everyone would want ...
because that alternative system doesnt exist yet. thats what you people can't seem to grasp. we need a new line of thinking in order to make the system better for everyone. I've given my thoughts many times as to how that would look. but I'm no expert, I'm just one guy with an opinion and a voice.
I'm not willing to accept UHC just because other countries do it. I see too many potential problems and I'm also not willing to just hand over control to the government. their track record proves less then stellar on many programs.
we grasp it.
we DO need a new line of thinking, and even UHC, it would be uniquely our own version, not a cookie-cutter solution. i think many have suggested, myself included, that other countries UHC serve merely as a model, at most...but that we need to create our own, new model...that will work for us. now i understand you just don't want UHC, fair enough (and i know you've thrown out ideas, but none thus far that personally appeal to me...so i am still looking for this 'better alternative' that will appeal/serve us all).....but the flip side of that is simply b/c many of us do want UHC, doesn't mean we don't want our own, unique system. however, i am absolutely open to the idea of an entirely alternate, unique system that does not exist anywhere yet.....as long as it is better than what we have now and UHC. tho in my mind, even this alternate...would look and behave a lot more closely to UHC than private insurance, but all labels in any case. i don't give a shit what it's called, i care about it's application, usage and benefit to ALL.
we grasp it.
we DO need a new line of thinking, and even UHC, it would be uniquely our own version, not a cookie-cutter solution. i think many have suggested, myself included, that other countries UHC serve merely as a model, at most...but that we need to create our own, new model...that will work for us. now i understand you just don't want UHC, fair enough (and i know you've thrown out ideas, but none thus far that personally appeal to me...so i am still looking for this 'better alternative' that will appeal/serve us all).....but the flip side of that is simply b/c many of us do want UHC, doesn't mean we don't want our own, unique system. however, i am absolutely open to the idea of an entirely alternate, unique system that does not exist anywhere yet.....as long as it is better than what we have now and UHC. tho in my mind, even this alternate...would look and behave a lot more closely to UHC than private insurance, but all labels in any case. i don't give a shit what it's called, i care about it's application, usage and benefit to ALL.
a new line of thinking? really? sounds like you want UHC. yea, what a groundbreaking idea :roll:
I'm outta here. hope everyone tunes in to Obama's speech tonight. I'll be watching.
did anyone watch? I did. I really liked some of his ideas.....some of which I've been arguing for such as government policing of the insurance industry. what I don't like is the funding for it. still vague. actually much of the bill is so its hard to make s decision yet. like insurance exchange? what the hell is that.. anywho, I did like many things he said last night. if anyone has a link to his talking points that would be great.
Andrew D. - Seattle, WA
Submitted by mdemkovich on Tue, 07/21/2009 - 18:16
Trust me you do not want this to happen to America. Read on... My family lived in England for 2 years in 2007-2009 and experienced Socialized Medicine first hand. Meghan (my daughter) was born in England and also got very sick in England. We saw firsthand how a government run system breeds mediocre coverage, doing the bare minimum to help patients in need and not performing vital services because they are too expensive on the system.
A prime example: My daughter was 3 weeks old when she had a seizure. We got her to the hospital where the doctors immediately did a spinal tap to diagnose the problem with VERY limited testing (cost controls). They could only perform limited testing on the spinal fluid due to the lack of proper equipment at the hospital (lack of funding and cost controls). In order to accurately diagnose why my daughter had a seizure they had to send the samples away for testing (again cost controls, the government run systems can only support so much equipment and services at different hospitals) Little did we know the testing is only done once a week, on Fridays, because the system cannot support the expenses to have daily or even hourly testing service and the equipment at every hospital. We entered the hospital on Sunday evening and had to wait until that Friday for results!!
Meghan then had another seizure!! The doctors tried numerous individual things on my little Meghan to try and discover the problem, when if they would have tested the fluid they would have known she had viral meningitis. After a weeks worth of horrible services, demoralizing treatment and arguments with a staff that could only provide basic services we learned what she had and then could properly treat my 3 week old daughter. We felt helpless to do anything but watch my daughter cry endlessly, scared, unfed (another thing they were “trying”) and wait.
The doctors could only do so much with the resources available. It was horrible, and I wouldn’t wish this type of system on anyone. People out there think a system like Canada or England is a good thing for the population, but I have to tell you it is the worst idea, the worst services possible and sure fire way to get the worst treatment available for any of our families and loved ones.
I have more stories like this for the birth of our daughter that outline why this system breeds mediocrity and low levels of services for our people. Don’t Do it America. Don’t Do it...
I have another example of a friend in England who broke her arm in 3 places, and it was “set” using equipment too large for her arm because the system only carries “1 size fits all” for broken bones. She now has limited mobility and loss of senses in her hand because they could not support her smaller arm/body with the properly sized equipment.
fuck sake.... for every one horror story like this there are millions of others... yes millions.. who are seen by our National Health System and are treated well, efficiently and FREE.
people get charged for rape kits in the States? thats fuckied up... if i got stabbed by a mentalist i'd have to pay for my medical care? thats fucked up.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
fuck sake.... for every one horror story like this there are millions of others... yes millions.. who are seen by our National Health System and are treated well, efficiently and FREE.
people get charged for rape kits in the States? thats fuckied up... if i got stabbed by a mentalist i'd have to pay for my medical care? thats fucked up.
paying for something you need. what a shocking reality. or sue the mentalist, he would be the one liable.
do you really need to keep arguing about the "free" comments? We all know there is a cost and by "free" it means you don't get harassed for an insurance card and denied treatment because you don't have your card and/or you aren't refused treatment because you aren't insured or have $10,000 in your pocket to fix your broken finger
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
do you really need to keep arguing about the "free" comments? We all know there is a cost and by "free" it means you don't get harassed for an insurance card and denied treatment because you don't have your card and/or you aren't refused treatment because you aren't insured or have $10,000 in your pocket to fix your broken finger
no, absolutely not. people like dunk probably actually believe its free.
do you really need to keep arguing about the "free" comments? We all know there is a cost and by "free" it means you don't get harassed for an insurance card and denied treatment because you don't have your card and/or you aren't refused treatment because you aren't insured or have $10,000 in your pocket to fix your broken finger
How can you stop arguing about the $? It's the whole discussion. Everyone wants everyone to have the best health care when they need it....the who's going to pay for it (and how) is the only thing left to discuss.
Comments
Wait - are you saying we should pay for healthcare for all patient who are "with child" then?
I'm sorry, what were those options again? Bear in mind, please, that she needs options she can count on - not "your loan will probably be low-interest" or "you can afford it as long as you don't have any complications".
Like I said, I have many, many of these perfect examples. They shape my opinion, not the other way around. I can post a new one every day if you'd like.
I would support a plan that helped or completely subsidized pregnant women. but I would need to see specifics. I would prefer it be based on need and not an open checkbook.
just because you dont like the options, doesn't mean they dont exist.
they could be more careful while having sex if they didnt want children. you said she was on the pill, great. im sure more precautions could have been taken. like a condom or withdrawal method in additional to the pill.. no, we dont know if that was used, but its safe to assume it wasn't.
she could buy her own insurance plan.
she could pay for the care herself and use some of tips
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card- ... s-1266.php
she AND the BF can look for different jobs that do offer insurance.
These are all great tips, but they are only possibilities. My point was that there are many cracks that people can slip through.
FYI... I just called the billing office for our hospital. The woman I spoke with said we don't charge interest for payment plans and there are some patients who take a long time to pay off their bills (although she stopped short of saying you can take as long as you'd like). She also said that if you miss two payments you're sent to collections, at which point you're subject to the policies and interest rates of the collection agencies.
soo ... any examples?
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Would you support care for undocumented immigrants who are pregant?
I never said I don't like the options. I love all the options that help patients! I'm just saying there are cracks between all these options.
You don't think there's something wrong with the idea that a given citizen's choice of career might be dictated by a private insurance company? We prosecute the mafia for saying things like "no sir, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that accidents happen and we are offering you protection should you choose to play ball with us."
You know SS, sometimes I think you're kind of an ass.... but sometimes you crack me up!
you make it sound like employer provider healthcare is rare. and I'm not saying I like it, I'm just saying that its an option.
I worked for a company out of college that didnt offer health insurance. I bought my own with a lower payment and high deducible. I worked hard and bettered myself and was able to get a job with a better company that paid 100% of my premium. I didnt sit around and hope someone would pay for my care. I put that responsibility on myself.
I don't see what that has to do with the insurance companies. All it really says is it's hard to find a doctor.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
in terms of what?
It's not just enough to find an employer that offers health care, you have to get the right KIND of health care. There's no telling if your employer will offer a plan that meets your needs, or if buying a private plan that does meet your needs is affordable. Add children into the mix... and it's a real crapshoot.
But there's the argument I've been waiting for that you've managed to keep hidden so long, which I must admit is impressive. But all comes down to "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps!" Of course, it is always that simple.
The insurance companies limit your choice of doctor. You cannot see a doctor not on their list.
of course its not simple, life isn't.... you of all people should know that.
There are 33 countries with a lower maternal mortality ratio (maternal deaths per 100,000 live births) AND a higher lifetime risk of maternal death (1 in x):
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Bosnia & Herzegovina
Canada
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Malta
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Poland
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
United Kingdom
Average of industrialized countries
Our lifetime risk of maternal death (1:4,800) is more than twice as high as:
Australia (1:13,300)
Austria (1:21,500)
Bosnia & Herzegovina (1:29,000)
Canada (1:11,000)
Croatia (1:10,500)
Czech Republic (1:18,100)
Denmark (1:17,800)
Germany (1:19,200)
Greece (1:25,900)
Hungary (1:13,300)
Iceland (1:12,700)
Ireland (1:47,600 - wow!)
Italy (1:26,600)
Japan (1:11,600)
Netherlands (1:10,200)
Poland (1:10,600)
Slovakia (1:13,800)
Slovenia (1:14,200)
Spain (1:16,400)
Sweden (1:17,400)
Switzerland (1:13,800)
Average for industrialized countried (1:8,000)
The point is that insurance companies limit - not expand - your choice of doctors.
your assertation is the UHC is not the solution to deliver health care ... is there a country out there that is delivering a better health care system that isn't socialized?
thats a loaded question if I ever saw one.
the government will need to be involved in some way to provide the care for everyone. but we dont need UHC to accomplish that.
i don't see how it's loaded ... it seems you are arguing against UHC but cannot point to an alternative system that ultimately will deliver the type of health care everyone would want ...
because that alternative system doesnt exist yet. thats what you people can't seem to grasp. we need a new line of thinking in order to make the system better for everyone. I've given my thoughts many times as to how that would look. but I'm no expert, I'm just one guy with an opinion and a voice.
I'm not willing to accept UHC just because other countries do it. I see too many potential problems and I'm also not willing to just hand over control to the government. their track record proves less then stellar on many programs.
we grasp it.
we DO need a new line of thinking, and even UHC, it would be uniquely our own version, not a cookie-cutter solution. i think many have suggested, myself included, that other countries UHC serve merely as a model, at most...but that we need to create our own, new model...that will work for us. now i understand you just don't want UHC, fair enough (and i know you've thrown out ideas, but none thus far that personally appeal to me...so i am still looking for this 'better alternative' that will appeal/serve us all).....but the flip side of that is simply b/c many of us do want UHC, doesn't mean we don't want our own, unique system. however, i am absolutely open to the idea of an entirely alternate, unique system that does not exist anywhere yet.....as long as it is better than what we have now and UHC. tho in my mind, even this alternate...would look and behave a lot more closely to UHC than private insurance, but all labels in any case. i don't give a shit what it's called, i care about it's application, usage and benefit to ALL.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
a new line of thinking? really? sounds like you want UHC. yea, what a groundbreaking idea :roll:
did anyone watch? I did. I really liked some of his ideas.....some of which I've been arguing for such as government policing of the insurance industry. what I don't like is the funding for it. still vague. actually much of the bill is so its hard to make s decision yet. like insurance exchange? what the hell is that.. anywho, I did like many things he said last night. if anyone has a link to his talking points that would be great.
fuck sake.... for every one horror story like this there are millions of others... yes millions.. who are seen by our National Health System and are treated well, efficiently and FREE.
here's a horror story...
http://www.click2houston.com/news/19400 ... ail.html#-
people get charged for rape kits in the States? thats fuckied up... if i got stabbed by a mentalist i'd have to pay for my medical care? thats fucked up.
Who do you think should pay for it? I'd agree with the "mentalist".
There is no such thing as free health care...someone's always paying for it.
your healthcare is anything but FREE :roll:
paying for something you need. what a shocking reality. or sue the mentalist, he would be the one liable.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
no, absolutely not. people like dunk probably actually believe its free.
How can you stop arguing about the $? It's the whole discussion. Everyone wants everyone to have the best health care when they need it....the who's going to pay for it (and how) is the only thing left to discuss.