Hey Obama voters, I have a few questions for you...

2

Comments

  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    ledvedderman wrote:

    holy shit! jlew

    what up Led. dont get too excited. probably just a glitch in the system ha. hey I'm headed to Memphis for EV. you goin to any shows?
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ledvedderman wrote:

    holy shit! jlew

    what up Led. dont get too excited. probably just a glitch in the system ha. hey I'm headed to Memphis for EV. you goin to any shows?

    I put in for Memphis. We'll see if I score a ticket. If not, there's always the public sale. I have a feeling I will end up down there.
    E8toX.gif

    http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    acoustic guy wrote:
    South of Seattle wrote:
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Are you still in love with him now that you get an idea of what kind of what kind of Socialist he is?
    How about the way he is leaving a HUGE debt for our great great grand kids?
    How about the way he is elected to be the president of the strongest country in the world, yet he kisses the ass and bows down to every european leader to ask for forgiveness, EVEN THOUGH....if it was not for us, almost all of europe would probably still be under the control of the Third Reich.
    I really could go on and on...
    I am curious to see if anyone who voted for him will admit that that made a mistake choosing such an under qualified person because he is young and a great speaker?

    Socialism, not care too much about it. The "Free Market Capitalism" has done us a lot of good :roll:

    Debt: Doesn't matter who the president is. The debt was there before he came into office, it will still be there when he leaves.

    I didn't vote Obama because he was the "Savior" I voted for him to keep Psycho Palin out of office. You think this place is fucked now? It would be a total shitstorm IMO McCain/Palin were in office.

    It was a "Lose-Lose" situation to begin with.
    You dont care about Solialism?
    Think about this....lets say you live in a total Socialist country ok, and you come up with a great innovative idea like..oh I dont know, a Chia Pet! LOL, and you design it and spend years and years making the prefect object with long hours and hard work and people go crazy over it and you make millions. Guess what???
    YOU DONT MAKE MILLIONS. All that hard work is wasted, you dont get to reap the benefits of honest hard work b/c the SOCIALIST GOVERMENT takes it away from you. SUCKS huh?
    How about private property. Do you own or want to own a house? Well try it in Cuba....not a chance.
    Just because the economy was going down and Bush made some stupid moves does not mean Capitalism is bad. Capitalism is waht made America the greatest country in the world! Sure right now we are down, but not out. Its just the cycle that it goes through.
    McCain is one of the FEW real honest guys in Washington, but you saw a old man and went with the handsome guy who gives everyone false hope.


    Just think, even your next door neighbor could take away your Chia Pet invention if you don't get a patent, duh!

    In reality, no one truly owns private property, they simply pay taxes on property. Both the State and federal government has the right to take your land under many circumstances.

    Hopefully, people will get a chance to buy in Cuba, damn if I wouldn't be trying for a condo on the beach.

    McCain's a politician and as with all politicians honesty is subjective to the level of comparison. McCain's overwhelming problem was that he lost control of his own campaign. Having Palin forced upon him as running mate is nothing new, because within the Party elite compromises are made in campaigns. However, when you have a seasoned, respected politician forced to play second fiddle to the running mate that's a leadership issue. When your campaign is operating as two separate and distinct arenas, that's a leadership issue. When you have a seasoned, respected politician bowing to the likes of a Joe the Plumber as a spokesman for your campaign - and, in the same context -when you have that same seasoned, respected politician being dissed by Joe the Plumber - and Joe the Plumber is making the decision to answer to Palin rather than McCain, then the respect is gone and there's nothing left for the voter.

    Lastly, your children, your grandchildren and your great grandchildren will be still paying off Bush's deficit before they even get to whatever President Obama tacks on. That's if they have jobs at higher than minimum wage, if not add on your great, great grandchildren before President Obama.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    Drowned Out wrote:
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Are you still in love with him now that you get an idea of what kind of what kind of Socialist he is?

    Capitalism: an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods, characterized by a free competitive market and motivation by profit.

    Private ownership in decline...Free competitive market? Nope.

    Socialism: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles.

    Controlled by the people? Equity and fairness? Nope.

    Fascism: any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism.

    Hmmmmm….
    acoustic guy wrote:
    ....if it was not for us, almost all of europe would probably still be under the control of the Third Reich.
    :roll:

    AMEN!
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    ledvedderman wrote:
    acoustic guy wrote:
    McCain is one of the FEW real honest guys in Washington, but you saw a old man and went with the handsome guy who gives everyone false hope.

    Correction. McCain WAS one of the few honest guys in Washington until he sold his soul to the very thing that ended his chance in 2000.

    True this.
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    KDH12 wrote:

    When capitalism put profit over the well being of all people, the dollar before human lives and pushed those in poverty closer to the bottom treating them as a lower grade of people.....

    I became a socialist ;)

    Capitalism didn't do that. CORPORATISM did.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    KDH12 wrote:

    When capitalism put profit over the well being of all people, the dollar before human lives and pushed those in poverty closer to the bottom treating them as a lower grade of people.....

    I became a socialist ;)

    Capitalism didn't do that. CORPORATISM did.

    Corporatism is the inevitable outcome of capitalism. When some people get an edge on wealth and power, which is exactly what capitalism protects and encourages, they're going to use it to eliminate competition and increase their share and their profit. Voila. Corporatism. You cannot have capitalism without juggernaut conglomerates emerging on top and then oppressing everyone else to keep them in the backseat. Walmart is a beautiful example of this.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited April 2009
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Are you still in love with him now that you get an idea of what kind of what kind of Socialist he is?
    How about the way he is leaving a HUGE debt for our great great grand kids?
    How about the way he is elected to be the president of the strongest country in the world, yet he kisses the ass and bows down to every european leader to ask for forgiveness, EVEN THOUGH....if it was not for us, almost all of europe would probably still be under the control of the Third Reich.
    I really could go on and on...
    I am curious to see if anyone who voted for him will admit that that made a mistake choosing such an under qualified person because he is young and a great speaker?
    ...
    I'll take the bait... i'll answer your obviously biased and politically partisan survey...
    Q: Are you still in love with him now that you get an idea of what kind of what kind of Socialist he is?
    A: I was never in love with Obama... you may love the politicians you vote for, but I don't.
    As for 'Socialist'... you need to be more specific, otherwise I am only left with conjecture. If you are talking about the Bank/AIG Bail-outs... then, I must ask... Wasn't George W. Bush the President when the initial 780 Billion dolllar bail-out was done in October of 2008? And didn't that plan contain the following:
    "Sec. 8. Review.
    Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

    look it up... but, if memory serves me right... Obama wasn't President until January 20, 2009.
    Finally... what do you propose happen? Do nothing and let the banks fail and plunge this nation into a Depression? How about doing nothing about AIG and leaving the Global Banks and their depositors with no insurance? What?

    Q: How about the way he is leaving a HUGE debt for our great great grand kids?
    A: We, you and me, have already strapped nearly 1 Trillions dollars to pay for the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars to the backs of our kinds and grandkids. We added the 780 Billion from the initial bail-out to their burden. To try to lay all of this at the feet of Obama is... well, with all due respect... assinine at best. And, sure... Obama will increase it. But, I am hoping that our grandkids are left with rebuilt bridges and highways, levees and waterways... and cleaner electricity grids... left by their GrandFathers on projects begun and completed in our time.

    Q: How about the way he is elected to be the president of the strongest country in the world, yet he kisses the ass and bows down to every european leader to ask for forgiveness, EVEN THOUGH....if it was not for us, almost all of europe would probably still be under the control of the Third Reich.
    A: This one is GOLDEN. Taken straight from the mouth of Sean Hannity (yes, i watch Hannity from time to time). Since this is obviously not your question... please, relay my response to the person who tells you what your opinions should be... Mr. Hannity.
    American needs to mend fences with our European Allies and NATO Partners. The first step in mending fences is admitting YOUR responsibility for your actions in the relationship.
    Maybe, all you heard was this, "there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive."
    But read the Full Transcript,
    "In recent years we've allowed our Alliance to drift. I know that there have been honest disagreements over policy, but we also know that there's something more that has crept into our relationship. In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.
    But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad. "
    (Ref.http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/ ... cs_4918137 )

    The apologies are for our action in the past 8 years. We have acted like arrogant dicks for the past 8 years. And last time i checked... my history book say that World War II was not fought and won in the past 8 years. Trying to link the past 8 years and our taking our resonsibiliity for those past 8 years with World War II is... well, again... assinine at best and disgraceful to the men and women who fought, survived and died in that war, at worst. Trying to play a Patriot Card to support you side of a political arguement is a cheap ploy.

    As for your closing comments... Yes, I voted for Obama. Not because I love him... or because he is my savior... but, because he was a better choice than the alternative option. I remember MCCain suspending his campaign until "This economic crisis is over". How'd that pan out? And he assured me, that the fundamentals of the economy were sound... as Bear-Sterns and Lehmann Brothers came crashing down. What would a president McCain be doing, regarding the economy, if he had won? My guess... the same thing Obama is doing... following the advice of his financial advisors.

    And let me close by saying... unlike the Bush supporters, I will hold Obama responsible for his decisions and actions if i deem them bad for this nation. I will not make up lame excuses or tow the party line like some spineless, boot licking lacky. I will hold him accountable... just as I have always done in the past. When he fucks up... i'm letting him know.
    Post edited by Cosmo on
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  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    soulsinging wrote:
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    KDH12 wrote:

    When capitalism put profit over the well being of all people, the dollar before human lives and pushed those in poverty closer to the bottom treating them as a lower grade of people.....

    I became a socialist ;)

    Capitalism didn't do that. CORPORATISM did.

    Corporatism is the inevitable outcome of capitalism. When some people get an edge on wealth and power, which is exactly what capitalism protects and encourages, they're going to use it to eliminate competition and increase their share and their profit. Voila. Corporatism. You cannot have capitalism without juggernaut conglomerates emerging on top and then oppressing everyone else to keep them in the backseat. Walmart is a beautiful example of this.

    I don't think corporatism is inevitable in a free market society-- I do think it creates a lot of "big business," but without the government handouts and regulations that give birth to corporatism, there still exists a lot of healthy competition from smaller businesses against the big guys. For instance, picture a USA without oil subsidies, how much higher would the prices be? How much more sense would it make to switch to a hybrid, or an alternative fuel? Now, it's happening anyway with the government forcing the auto industries to go green, BUT AT OUR EXPENSE!
    I sincerely believe that no true monopoly exists without the helping hand of the government. Constitutional government does not allow for businesses to get in bed with the government, (the only real way to eliminate competition) the way we see it happening now. Currently, the worst monopoly ever exists in the form of the Federal Reserve, with the monopoly on money creation Anyway, I'll meet you halfway: elminate all laws banning hemp, and all laws that require insurance, and disallow THE BANK to issue our own money to us at interest and let's see how that "mixed' system works first, before we dive headfirst back into a free market. Not that this is going to happen, but I wish it would!
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    Corporatism is the inevitable outcome of capitalism. When some people get an edge on wealth and power, which is exactly what capitalism protects and encourages, they're going to use it to eliminate competition and increase their share and their profit. Voila. Corporatism. You cannot have capitalism without juggernaut conglomerates emerging on top and then oppressing everyone else to keep them in the backseat. Walmart is a beautiful example of this.

    I don't think corporatism is inevitable in a free market society-- I do think it creates a lot of "big business," but without the government handouts and regulations that give birth to corporatism, there still exists a lot of healthy competition from smaller businesses against the big guys. For instance, picture a USA without oil subsidies, how much higher would the prices be? How much more sense would it make to switch to a hybrid, or an alternative fuel? Now, it's happening anyway with the government forcing the auto industries to go green, BUT AT OUR EXPENSE!
    I sincerely believe that no true monopoly exists without the helping hand of the government. Constitutional government does not allow for businesses to get in bed with the government, (the only real way to eliminate competition) the way we see it happening now. Currently, the worst monopoly ever exists in the form of the Federal Reserve, with the monopoly on money creation Anyway, I'll meet you halfway: elminate all laws banning hemp, and all laws that require insurance, and disallow THE BANK to issue our own money to us at interest and let's see how that "mixed' system works first, before we dive headfirst back into a free market. Not that this is going to happen, but I wish it would!

    I'm on board with those. I'm not for communism or state ownership of all industry or anything. But I tend to notice that the people talking loudest about "free market capitalism" are the ones quietly approving bank bailouts while they scream bloody murder about the idea of paying off debtors' mortgages because it's their responsibility. They're also the ones that scream about ANY regulation or restraint on business, because they want the freedom to do the shit that got us into this mess: fuck with their books and sell and re-sell debt endlessly in order to inflate profits and stock payouts so they can bail with a billion dollar parachute once the balloon bursts.

    I definitely agree about insurance, that's the most disgusting industry on the planet. And hemp could be a huge boon to our struggling farmers as well as a big environmental winner. But the bottom line is, businesses need to be regulated because greed cannot check itself and abuse will be ever present. You can't just let it run free. I also think we badly need to re-write our lobbying and campaign finance laws. I'm tired of this bullshit argument that campaign donations are "speech." Handing someone a check is not speech.
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    soulsinging wrote:
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    Corporatism is the inevitable outcome of capitalism. When some people get an edge on wealth and power, which is exactly what capitalism protects and encourages, they're going to use it to eliminate competition and increase their share and their profit. Voila. Corporatism. You cannot have capitalism without juggernaut conglomerates emerging on top and then oppressing everyone else to keep them in the backseat. Walmart is a beautiful example of this.

    I don't think corporatism is inevitable in a free market society-- I do think it creates a lot of "big business," but without the government handouts and regulations that give birth to corporatism, there still exists a lot of healthy competition from smaller businesses against the big guys. For instance, picture a USA without oil subsidies, how much higher would the prices be? How much more sense would it make to switch to a hybrid, or an alternative fuel? Now, it's happening anyway with the government forcing the auto industries to go green, BUT AT OUR EXPENSE!
    I sincerely believe that no true monopoly exists without the helping hand of the government. Constitutional government does not allow for businesses to get in bed with the government, (the only real way to eliminate competition) the way we see it happening now. Currently, the worst monopoly ever exists in the form of the Federal Reserve, with the monopoly on money creation Anyway, I'll meet you halfway: elminate all laws banning hemp, and all laws that require insurance, and disallow THE BANK to issue our own money to us at interest and let's see how that "mixed' system works first, before we dive headfirst back into a free market. Not that this is going to happen, but I wish it would!

    I'm on board with those. I'm not for communism or state ownership of all industry or anything. But I tend to notice that the people talking loudest about "free market capitalism" are the ones quietly approving bank bailouts while they scream bloody murder about the idea of paying off debtors' mortgages because it's their responsibility. They're also the ones that scream about ANY regulation or restraint on business, because they want the freedom to do the shit that got us into this mess: fuck with their books and sell and re-sell debt endlessly in order to inflate profits and stock payouts so they can bail with a billion dollar parachute once the balloon bursts.

    I definitely agree about insurance, that's the most disgusting industry on the planet. And hemp could be a huge boon to our struggling farmers as well as a big environmental winner. But the bottom line is, businesses need to be regulated because greed cannot check itself and abuse will be ever present. You can't just let it run free. I also think we badly need to re-write our lobbying and campaign finance laws. I'm tired of this bullshit argument that campaign donations are "speech." Handing someone a check is not speech.

    Sounds like we argue more over syntax than semantics. I think 95% of the "regulation" that is needed already exists in state laws against fraud, larceny, etc... That is how businesses should be kept honest above all else.

    Your beef with the "free market people" is exactly mine. I don't see them as free market at all. Any time the government gives a bailout, or allows for laws to be written that banks, credit agencies, etc... can work with money that they really don't have, that IS a problem in regulation to me, and I speak of whatever regulations that allowed them to do this in the first place. I'm all for the 'regulations' that rid us of whatever regulations that allowed banks and credit agencies to be gods over any other business, or people in general. If you and I can't do it, why should they be allowed to do it?

    It sounds like we're on the same page.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Are you still in love with him now that you get an idea of what kind of what kind of Socialist he is?

    Capitalism: an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods, characterized by a free competitive market and motivation by profit.

    Private ownership in decline...Free competitive market? Nope.

    Socialism: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles.

    Controlled by the people? Equity and fairness? Nope.

    Fascism: any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism.

    Hmmmmm….
    acoustic guy wrote:
    ....if it was not for us, almost all of europe would probably still be under the control of the Third Reich.
    :roll:

    AMEN!

    +2
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • HermanBloom
    HermanBloom Posts: 1,764
    Obama has been a nightmare.

    He claimed to get rid of partisanship and he has done nothing but push forward EXTREME left-wing, socialist ideas.
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  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    nathanastin wrote:
    Obama has been a nightmare.

    He claimed to get rid of partisanship and he has done nothing but push forward EXTREME left-wing, socialist ideas.

    Maybe you'll step up to the plate and answer what I asked about the previous administration and their socialist tendencies? If you can't, then you (like the original poster) are just playing the partisan card.
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  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    partisanship... non-partisanship... Which is really worse? Sometimes it seems like we get fucked the hardest when all the morons on Capitol Hill actually agree on something.
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Capitalism is waht made America the greatest country in the world!

    I like America and most of the Americans I've met, but statements like this always make me squirm. Why do so many Americans assume theirs is "the greatest country"? Why is it always said as if it were a self-evident truth, in need of no justification or explanation? What does it even mean??

    Sure, America has many great elements but it has many, many deep flaws. When I hear this phrase thrown out there - and I hear it a lot - it just sounds like nothing more than blind, unquestioning acceptance of empty propaganda. Basically, something not too different from the likes of this...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecW_oyalGfU&feature=channel
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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    nathanastin wrote:
    Obama has been a nightmare.

    He claimed to get rid of partisanship and he has done nothing but push forward EXTREME left-wing, socialist ideas.
    ...
    Please... give us some examples. This statement is so open and vague, that is really means nothing.
    What are the EXTREME Left-Wing Socialist Ideas that Obama has pushed through?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    wolfamongwolves wrote:
    acoustic guy wrote:
    Capitalism is waht made America the greatest country in the world!

    I like America and most of the Americans I've met, but statements like this always make me squirm. Why do so many Americans assume theirs is "the greatest country"? Why is it always said as if it were a self-evident truth, in need of no justification or explanation? What does it even mean??

    Sure, America has many great elements but it has many, many deep flaws. When I hear this phrase thrown out there - and I hear it a lot - it just sounds like nothing more than blind, unquestioning acceptance of empty propaganda. Basically, something not too different from the likes of this...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecW_oyalGfU&feature=channel

    Simple..conditioning......we're fed how great America is on a daily basis...we sing the anthem before most public events..we sing before each school day how wonderful our country is...plus its comforting to think how great we are versus the reality of how we built this country on slavery and carried out genocide to the native Americans that inhabited this land prior to all us wonderful white folk arriving. AND COME ON NOW....YOU Do Realize this is GODS country and we were founded on Christian principles :lol::lol::lol:

    In our defense we're no different than the sheeple of other countries....all governments feed this crap to their citizens....just elemetary conditioning...fortunately there are some humans that see through the BS and don't follow the sheeple.
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  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    callen wrote:

    Obama will do a better job in current curcumstances than most of the presidents in our history.

    Yes, and his decision to pursue giving 12 million illegal alien criminals citizenship when there are millions of Americans out of work is a great answer. And please save the excuse that these are jobs that Americans won't do because every time criminal aliens are arrested there are hundreds of Americans applying for those jobs.
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    JB811 wrote:
    callen wrote:

    Obama will do a better job in current curcumstances than most of the presidents in our history.

    Yes, and his decision to pursue giving 12 million illegal alien criminals citizenship when there are millions of Americans out of work is a great answer. And please save the excuse that these are jobs that Americans won't do because every time criminal aliens are arrested there are hundreds of Americans applying for those jobs.

    I assume you would put part of the blame on former President Bush for his lack of action on this issue so near and dear to your heart? Wouldn't you?
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