so you want universal heath care- heres what to expect

2

Comments

  • rearviewmiror
    rearviewmiror Posts: 894
    I love this debate.

    I mean people say we cant pay for it. We are already! The money is there. If you added in the benefit of the government negoatiating deals based on bulk for Rx's then we would be way ahead.

    Imagine being free to work whatever job you wanted to b/c healthcare wasnt an issue.

    Oh, did I just say freedom? Bad word in today's America.
    9/7/98, 8/3/00, 9/4/00, 4/15/03, 7/1/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 5/24/06, 5/25/06, 6/17/08, 6/22/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 5/17/10, 10/15/13, 10/16/13.
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    What a tool. The guy makes good money I would assume in his profession why didn't he just go to the "pros" and get it fixed like the hockey players do.

    Funny I tore my knee up playing hockey and was in to a "pros" place getting it rehabbed within two days waiting for the swelling to go down. Once that happened I let my healthcare take over and had my knee operated on within two months. Day surgery like this guy had and what kind of instrutions does a grown up need that just had his knee worked on. It is pretty fucking obvious what comes next.

    Poor him and not paying for it when he had the chance.

    Maybe the original poster should compare the amount of stories from the States and Canada on who still owes for operations or has lost their house due the health care system of each country. A story like this wouldn't be a story at all!!
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  • meme
    meme Posts: 4,695
    _Crazy_Mary_ wrote:
    Canada's healthcare is subsidized by Americans. How? They set limits of how much they will pay for prescription meds and demand we sell it to them at that rate or they will copy the drugs themselves. If you don't see how wrong that is, then you are suffering from a mental disorder. Does Canada have any centers that create new drugs? No.
    Americans have to pay more for the drugs to make up for the Canadians ripping us off.
    Will we have that benefit if we have universal healthcare?

    No, it's called a government standing up for its people instead of for drug companies. If you don't see that... oh wait, I don't call people crazy just because they disagree with me.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • Lesbelges
    Lesbelges Posts: 434
    meme wrote:
    Meet consequence number one of private health care: ridiculously high costs for EVERYTHING. Most countries with universal health care have private clinics where you can get the fancy shiny rooms. Often the care is no better than in public hospitals.

    Lesbelges ... hey now :p

    I will grant you that the quality of healthcare in Italy is uneven. I can speak to my hometown, Milan, and other cities whose hospitals I have used: Florence, Ferrara, Aosta. All excellent experiences. Much better, I should say, than the one I had taking my son to a pediatrician in NYC.


    Well I was not singling out the health care in Italy because I don't know it well at all.
    However, I do know that most things run less smoothly in our country (Italy) than the rest of Europe.
    I can't speak for Milan though, I speak for La Spezia and the Liguria region . Which is where both sides of my family are from (and therefore where I go every year).
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  • meme
    meme Posts: 4,695
    Lesbelges wrote:
    Well I was not singling out the health care in Italy because I don't know it well at all.
    However, I do know that most things run less smoothly in our country (Italy) than the rest of Europe.
    I can't speak for Milan though, I speak for La Spezia and the Liguria region . Which is where both sides of my family are from (and therefore where I go every year).

    Ok, give me an example of less smoothly :)

    I understand loosely what you are talking about, but having lived in the US for a while now, I can guarantee you that there is nothing smooth about being always asked for your insurance card first thing whenever you have a medical issue, nothing smooth about trying to fix up their screwups, nothing smooth about having to fight for the things you need etc :)
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • _Crazy_Mary_
    _Crazy_Mary_ Posts: 1,299
    meme wrote:
    No, it's called a government standing up for its people instead of for drug companies. If you don't see that... oh wait, I don't call people crazy just because they disagree with me.

    Drug companies develop medications that save lives. If they don't have a profit motive, they won't develop new drugs that fight cancer and HIV, et al. The drug companies are not the bad guys, here. That's like saying your government is standing up to sick people/patients.
    The average cost of developing a new drug costs $1 billion and twelve years of research.
    I really screwed that up. I really Schruted it.
  • rearviewmiror
    rearviewmiror Posts: 894
    _Crazy_Mary_ wrote:
    Drug companies develop medications that save lives. If they don't have a profit motive, they won't develop new drugs that fight cancer and HIV, et al. The drug companies are not the bad guys, here. That's like saying your government is standing up to sick people/patients.
    The average cost of developing a new drug costs $1 billion and twelve years of research.
    Fine. Then the government can fund research again.
    9/7/98, 8/3/00, 9/4/00, 4/15/03, 7/1/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 5/24/06, 5/25/06, 6/17/08, 6/22/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 5/17/10, 10/15/13, 10/16/13.
  • _Crazy_Mary_
    _Crazy_Mary_ Posts: 1,299
    rearviewmiror wrote:
    Fine. Then the government can fund research again.

    ;) awesome. There won't be any corruption or waste of tax dollars in that!
    I really screwed that up. I really Schruted it.
  • Lesbelges
    Lesbelges Posts: 434
    meme wrote:
    Ok, give me an example of less smoothly :)

    I understand loosely what you are talking about, but having lived in the US for a while now, I can guarantee you that there is nothing smooth about being always asked for your insurance card first thing whenever you have a medical issue, nothing smooth about trying to fix up their screwups, nothing smooth about having to fight for the things you need etc :)

    I guess I don't have a many specific examples...In general I can mention:
    Politics
    Transportation
    Education

    What I really like is the US is that in general they have this attitude of "the customer is always right". While in Italy, rather than try to solve your problem, they would rather give you the run-around till you give up.

    Magari le mie poche esperienze sono state tutte spicievoli e mi sono fatto una brutta idea di come funzionano le cose in Italia....Chi sa'? :)
    Cincinnati '03 Flooded venue!
    Bridge School '06 Night 1 & 2
    Venice '07 pummeled by the sleet! 
    Nijmegen '07
    Werchter '07
    April Fools ~ LA1
  • rearviewmiror
    rearviewmiror Posts: 894
    _Crazy_Mary_ wrote:
    ;) awesome. There won't be any corruption or waste of tax dollars in that!
    :) Well, it's how we used to do it.

    More seriously, the Europeans develop drugs and they mostly have a socialist style health care sytem in every state. Also, maybe we'd spend less time watching Dick drug commercials and more time watching how a gov't funded scientist cured cancer.
    9/7/98, 8/3/00, 9/4/00, 4/15/03, 7/1/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 5/24/06, 5/25/06, 6/17/08, 6/22/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 5/17/10, 10/15/13, 10/16/13.
  • Thecure
    Thecure Posts: 814
    _Crazy_Mary_ wrote:
    Drug companies develop medications that save lives. If they don't have a profit motive, they won't develop new drugs that fight cancer and HIV, et al. The drug companies are not the bad guys, here. That's like saying your government is standing up to sick people/patients.
    The average cost of developing a new drug costs $1 billion and twelve years of research.

    how important is it to have medication if the people can't afford it. i am not saying that all drug companies are bad but i won't say that they are all great people. companies will still get a profit because the government pays for the medication through your tax dollars. also, new drugs do not cost 1 billion dollars to create.
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  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    When everyone in the community feels cared for on such a fundamental level, it changes a lot. Ripples in a pond. Many countries around the world have set aside greed, and figured this out already.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
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  • hrd2imgn
    hrd2imgn Southwest Burbs of Chicago Posts: 4,941
    I just open the cans here, I like letting the threads sort theirselves out like this one.

    I don't think free healthcare is the answer I think affordable health care is. Make plans people can afford and let them pay their share.
  • dmitry
    dmitry Posts: 136
    Thecure wrote:
    also, new drugs do not cost 1 billion dollars to create.

    how much do they cost?
  • beachdweller
    beachdweller Posts: 1,532
    hrd2imgn wrote:
    this is from a former pro-wrestler who lives in Canada and deals with their universal heath care sysytem

    http://www.stormwrestling.com/022508.html

    this seems to be what we can all expect if we get universal health care

    we're not getting Canada's universal health care, and it's actually not bad, there are always horror stories, when millions of people are involved in something.

    one benefit of universal healthcare in my opinion would be that the hmo's would get some relief from having to make choices between providing care and saving/making money. By law they have to maximize profits, and that is a very proud pronouncement. With the government involved, some of that will not be an issue.

    I'm not saying it'll be perfect, but the hate and fear mongering isn't helping people. The right hasn't offered any counter solutions, if they have and I missed them, they had 2002 - 2006 to implement and have done crap.

    It's worth a try to actually strive to be a better nation for all citizens.
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  • dmitry
    dmitry Posts: 136
    rearviewmiror wrote:

    More seriously, the Europeans develop drugs and they mostly have a socialist style health care sytem in every state.

    how does european price-controlled drug development compare to america's drug development?
  • meme
    meme Posts: 4,695
    Lesbelges wrote:
    Magari le mie poche esperienze sono state tutte spicievoli e mi sono fatto una brutta idea di come funzionano le cose in Italia....Chi sa'? :)

    No, no, of course. Much of what you say is true. I just think that some things should not be left for the for-profit people, and health care is one of them :)
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    cornnifer wrote:
    You two are funny as hell. i just read this same exact post in another thread! (it was ridiculous in that thread as well). At least be original. Elaborate me, if you will, about the specifics of the Nadster's healthcare plan. That is if you can post it before i exercise this forum's cool little "ignore user" feature.


    i throw myself at the mercy of the message pit! for you see, i was unaware of this sacred rule that you can not post relavent information twice! i might take this 'one time ONLY!!!' rule into consideration at a later time or i might not, we'll see....

    and before you say it, yes, it is relavent b/c it shows an aspect of his plan that you don't really get. i've seen his plan described as universal, it is FAAAAAR from that

    http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-healthy-nation/

    A Healthy Nation

    Health care in the US is too expensive and leaves 46 million Americans without insurance and millions more underinsured. Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate for President with a plan for a Universal, Single-Payer, Not-for-Profit health care system.

    America's patchwork of for-profit, private insurers waste billions of dollars on spending that has nothing to do with paying for care. Elaborate underwriting, billing, sales and marketing divert huge amounts of money away from delivering health care. Huge profits and staggering compensation for the insurance companies' top executives and CEO's.

    To cope with the endless bureaucracy of private insurers, health care providers maintain huge administrative staffs. The administration of the health care system today consumes approximately 31% of the money spent for health care. The potential savings, as much as $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to every American without paying any more than we already do.

    In Congress, Representative Dennis Kucinich has co-authored HR 676, legislation which would establish Medicare for All - a universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care system that leaves no American behind.

    Resources:

    Myths as Barriers to Health Care Reform A paper refuting many of the myths associated with single-payer health care.
    No Health Insurance? It's Enough to Make You Sick American College of Physicians paper - Uninsured Americans live sicker and die younger.
    Uninsured Americans with Chronic Health Conditions Key Findings from the National Health Interview Survey - the Urban Institute and the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
    H.R. 676 - the United States National Health Insurance Act Read Rep. Kucinich's legislation on THOMAS (The Library of Congress


    i also dig his plan 'A Sustainable Future' here
    http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-sustainable-future/

    what is obamas plan for this, can you plz post it? what? golly, he's in the pocket of the nuclear power industry and pushes that as 'green'???????

    and if you think he is some pinko, socialist you should read his plan on 'Saving Capitalism' among others found here

    http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/

    i would love to compare plans
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    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • pjalive21
    pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    someone want to volunteer to pay for mine?

    didnt think so, so im not paying more taxes so someone without a job, or a legal resident can have healthcare
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    pjalive21 wrote:
    someone want to volunteer to pay for mine?

    didnt think so, so im not paying more taxes so someone without a job, or a legal resident can have healthcare

    Well, here's to your health. Cheers! :D

    Hope nothing ever comes along and incompacitates you, otherwise you might end up relying on taxpayers for your health and living needs. Surely you wouldn't want to come across as a hypocrite.

    Really, of those who would benefit, how many would take undue advantage of the system? So they have health care. That doesn't cover their rent or food.

    Besides, many of the plans presented really push for preventative care, which keeps people healthy, working and contributing to the system.
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