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so you want universal heath care- heres what to expect

hrd2imgnhrd2imgn Southwest Burbs of Chicago Posts: 4,899
edited February 2008 in A Moving Train
this is from a former pro-wrestler who lives in Canada and deals with their universal heath care sysytem

http://www.stormwrestling.com/022508.html

this seems to be what we can all expect if we get universal health care
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  • _Crazy_Mary__Crazy_Mary_ Posts: 1,299
    Free health care! :eek: LOL
    I really screwed that up. I really Schruted it.
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    I'm sure you're aware that many seem to share good experiences with us about UHC, quite pleased even. And that plenty living here have horror stories to tell about our system. It really comes down to ideology not my bad experience vs yours.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Urban HikerUrban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    I recently had an Isreali tell me the world is laughing at our (the US's) lack of universal health care.

    Canada is ONE example of a country with a universal health care plan. I'd like to know the experiences of folks in other countries.

    I want universal health care so I don't have to continually sell my soul for a good benefits package. I'm fine with working for a living, but the kinds of jobs with good health care plans have a way of putting on the Clampdown.
    Walking can be a real trip
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  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    Abook as always you put it the way I think. No system is going to work completely well for every individual...particularly in countries with millions of people. I really believe that UHC would benefit more people in the long run, the problem is that it isn't as profitable for corporations to run it that way. Corporations get presidents elected, not the many, and that will probably prevent the United States from ever implementing it...sadly.
  • buttersbutters Posts: 63
    This story isn't really that bad of a story... you can find worse ones than this.
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    ryan198 wrote:
    Abook as always you put it the way I think. No system is going to work completely well for every individual...particularly in countries with millions of people. I really believe that UHC would benefit more people in the long run, the problem is that it isn't as profitable for corporations to run it that way. Corporations get presidents elected, not the many, and that will probably prevent the United States from ever implementing it...sadly.

    And there it is. UHC could be implemented here just as easily as it was anywhere else. But that's not going to be the story on the nightly news. Keep letting corporate interests tell ya what is or isn't possible america. It's working out just splendidly so far!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    ryan198 wrote:
    Abook as always you put it the way I think. No system is going to work completely well for every individual...particularly in countries with millions of people. I really believe that UHC would benefit more people in the long run, the problem is that it isn't as profitable for corporations to run it that way. Corporations get presidents elected, not the many, and that will probably prevent the United States from ever implementing it...sadly.

    and obama's plan is still dominated and controlled by corporate insterests...the same health care companies we bitch about now will still over it!! what obama is offering is 'affordable' health insurance thru these same companies...so he's gonna set what he thinks we can afford to pay...how much is that you ask? well, i'm just as eager as you to know but, i guess we'll have to wait

    and under obamas plan if you don't have insurance and you show up at the hospital you will be fined!!

    read this part of the cnn debate in texas and note the bolded part about kids, far from universal as they all claim his plan is

    it's maybe 2/3 of the way down the page:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/21/debate.transcript/


    CLINTON: He's also said that if people show up at a hospital sick, without health insurance, well, maybe at that point you can fine them.

    We would not have a social compact with Social Security and Medicare if everyone did not have to participate. I want a universal health care plan.

    (APPLAUSE)

    OBAMA: Now, that's -- that mother -- that mother who is desperate to get health care for her child, will be able to get that health care under my plan. Point number one.

    Point number two, the reason a mandate for children can be effective is we've got an ability to make affordable health care available to that child, right now.

    OBAMA: There are no excuses. If a parent is not providing health care for that child, it's because the parent's not being responsible, under my plan. And those children don't have a choice. But I think that adults are going to be able to see that they can afford it, under my plan; they will get it, under my plan.

    And it is true that, if it turns out that some are gaming the system, then we can impose, potentially, some penalties on them for gaming the system.

    But the notion that, somehow, I am interested in leaving out 15 million people, without health insurance, is simply not true.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • HollyweirdHollyweird Posts: 197
    Government sponsored Health Care in this country is another fantasy. Simple economics. Where is the money coming from without a major tax hike? Unlike countries like Canada this country is funding two wars, has a major debt to service, and a massive military budget to fund. This has always been the case. This is why I find it so disingenuous of the Democrats to suggest they can do this. They can't and it's a lie. No one will accept the tax hikes necessary to get this done.
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    I recently had an Isreali tell me the world is laughing at our (the US's) lack of universal health care.
    Well, we kinda do. Around here anyway (Norway).
    Which means we're all sort of freaking out that we'll need to be hospitalized or treatment while visiting the US, since we know that would be very expensive.

    Peace
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  • DerrickDerrick Posts: 475
    That wrestler's experience was _FAR_ from what I experienced when I had my left ACL repaired in Nov 2005.

    In summary, I received first class treatment all the way in London, Ontario's Fowler-Kennedy clinic. I had to wait 4 months for an MRI and 9 months for surgery. I don't consider this long, as it gave me a chance to build strength in the muscles around my knee. The doctor was very informative and assuring. The nursing staff at London's Western University Hospital was great before and after the surgery.

    I don't know where Lance Storm got his surgery done, but we have excellent care in Southwestern Ontario.
  • darkcrowdarkcrow Posts: 1,102
    there will always be "horror" stories no matter what the plan. There are always cases that fall through the cracks. Doesn't mean the system is pointless. But at least you guys can look at the best and worst plans around the world and build something that really works for you.
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  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    El_Kabong wrote:
    and obama's plan is still dominated and controlled by corporate insterests...the same health care companies we bitch about now will still over it!! what obama is offering is 'affordable' health insurance thru these same companies...so he's gonna set what he thinks we can afford to pay...how much is that you ask? well, i'm just as eager as you to know but, i guess we'll have to wait

    and under obamas plan if you don't have insurance and you show up at the hospital you will be fined!!

    read this part of the cnn debate in texas and note the bolded part about kids, far from universal as they all claim his plan is

    it's maybe 2/3 of the way down the page:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/21/debate.transcript/


    CLINTON: He's also said that if people show up at a hospital sick, without health insurance, well, maybe at that point you can fine them.

    We would not have a social compact with Social Security and Medicare if everyone did not have to participate. I want a universal health care plan.

    (APPLAUSE)

    OBAMA: Now, that's -- that mother -- that mother who is desperate to get health care for her child, will be able to get that health care under my plan. Point number one.

    Point number two, the reason a mandate for children can be effective is we've got an ability to make affordable health care available to that child, right now.

    OBAMA: There are no excuses. If a parent is not providing health care for that child, it's because the parent's not being responsible, under my plan. And those children don't have a choice. But I think that adults are going to be able to see that they can afford it, under my plan; they will get it, under my plan.

    And it is true that, if it turns out that some are gaming the system, then we can impose, potentially, some penalties on them for gaming the system.

    But the notion that, somehow, I am interested in leaving out 15 million people, without health insurance, is simply not true.

    You two are funny as hell. i just read this same exact post in another thread! (it was ridiculous in that thread as well). At least be original. Elaborate me, if you will, about the specifics of the Nadster's healthcare plan. That is if you can post it before i exercise this forum's cool little "ignore user" feature.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    so if both systems have both very positive aspects and stories to tell alongside horror stories of how horribly it works, why switch? Both systems seem to leave someone out at some point. But only one seems to equate how hard/smart you educate yourself and employ yoursellf with how your healthcare is determined.
    Why go home

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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Is there a law against setting up private surgery clinics and or non government health care people could pay for not covered by the UHC system?

    Seems like there would be a market for it if you didn't want to or have time to wait and had the money to pay for it.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    hrd2imgn wrote:
    this is from a former pro-wrestler who lives in Canada and deals with their universal heath care sysytem

    http://www.stormwrestling.com/022508.html

    this seems to be what we can all expect if we get universal health care


    Listen, this is a dumb thread.

    I grew up in Italy with universal health care, and have lived in the US for 15 years now. I still think the Italian system is better.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • stupidcorporatewhorestupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    hrd2imgn wrote:
    this is from a former pro-wrestler who lives in Canada and deals with their universal heath care sysytem

    http://www.stormwrestling.com/022508.html

    this seems to be what we can all expect if we get universal health care

    You've completely tuned me around!

    One person out of 32 million have a bad experience? What the fuck was I thinking? Ok, you got me. Let's do nothing!

    you want to hear a tragic story?

    you live in America. If you get sick your life could be over.

    now, that's a trgedy.
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    Is there a law against setting up private surgery clinics and or non government health care people could pay for not covered by the UHC system?

    Seems like there would be a market for it if you didn't want to or have time to wait and had the money to pay for it.

    Nobody would have money to pay for it, because I would imagine nobody would have health insurance anymore. You just know businesses wouldn't have a health plan if you're "getting it for free" from the government. It would be a "great way to cut costs."

    And I don't know anybody who can afford medical care without insurance, except for the uber-rich.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • LesbelgesLesbelges Posts: 434
    meme wrote:
    Listen, this is a dumb thread.

    I grew up in Italy with universal health care, and have lived in the US for 15 years now. I still think the Italian system is better.


    And you know that's saying a lot cause Italian systems are always a mess!!!


    I lived in Belgium and the UHC system was great! Doctors were great.

    Only difference is that being a doctor is not a lucrative business in Belgium (unlike the US).
    Cincinnati '03 Flooded venue!
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    Venice '07 pummeled by the sleet! 
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  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    slightofjeff wrote:
    Nobody would have money to pay for it, because I would imagine nobody would have health insurance anymore. You just know businesses wouldn't have a health plan if you're "getting it for free" from the government. It would be a "great way to cut costs."

    And I don't know anybody who can afford medical care without insurance, except for the uber-rich.

    Meet consequence number one of private health care: ridiculously high costs for EVERYTHING. Most countries with universal health care have private clinics where you can get the fancy shiny rooms. Often the care is no better than in public hospitals.

    Lesbelges ... hey now :p

    I will grant you that the quality of healthcare in Italy is uneven. I can speak to my hometown, Milan, and other cities whose hospitals I have used: Florence, Ferrara, Aosta. All excellent experiences. Much better, I should say, than the one I had taking my son to a pediatrician in NYC.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • _Crazy_Mary__Crazy_Mary_ Posts: 1,299
    Canada's healthcare is subsidized by Americans. How? They set limits of how much they will pay for prescription meds and demand we sell it to them at that rate or they will copy the drugs themselves. If you don't see how wrong that is, then you are suffering from a mental disorder. Does Canada have any centers that create new drugs? No.
    Americans have to pay more for the drugs to make up for the Canadians ripping us off.
    Will we have that benefit if we have universal healthcare?
    I really screwed that up. I really Schruted it.
  • rearviewmirorrearviewmiror Posts: 894
    I love this debate.

    I mean people say we cant pay for it. We are already! The money is there. If you added in the benefit of the government negoatiating deals based on bulk for Rx's then we would be way ahead.

    Imagine being free to work whatever job you wanted to b/c healthcare wasnt an issue.

    Oh, did I just say freedom? Bad word in today's America.
    9/7/98, 8/3/00, 9/4/00, 4/15/03, 7/1/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 5/24/06, 5/25/06, 6/17/08, 6/22/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 5/17/10, 10/15/13, 10/16/13.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    What a tool. The guy makes good money I would assume in his profession why didn't he just go to the "pros" and get it fixed like the hockey players do.

    Funny I tore my knee up playing hockey and was in to a "pros" place getting it rehabbed within two days waiting for the swelling to go down. Once that happened I let my healthcare take over and had my knee operated on within two months. Day surgery like this guy had and what kind of instrutions does a grown up need that just had his knee worked on. It is pretty fucking obvious what comes next.

    Poor him and not paying for it when he had the chance.

    Maybe the original poster should compare the amount of stories from the States and Canada on who still owes for operations or has lost their house due the health care system of each country. A story like this wouldn't be a story at all!!
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  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    _Crazy_Mary_ wrote:
    Canada's healthcare is subsidized by Americans. How? They set limits of how much they will pay for prescription meds and demand we sell it to them at that rate or they will copy the drugs themselves. If you don't see how wrong that is, then you are suffering from a mental disorder. Does Canada have any centers that create new drugs? No.
    Americans have to pay more for the drugs to make up for the Canadians ripping us off.
    Will we have that benefit if we have universal healthcare?

    No, it's called a government standing up for its people instead of for drug companies. If you don't see that... oh wait, I don't call people crazy just because they disagree with me.
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • LesbelgesLesbelges Posts: 434
    meme wrote:
    Meet consequence number one of private health care: ridiculously high costs for EVERYTHING. Most countries with universal health care have private clinics where you can get the fancy shiny rooms. Often the care is no better than in public hospitals.

    Lesbelges ... hey now :p

    I will grant you that the quality of healthcare in Italy is uneven. I can speak to my hometown, Milan, and other cities whose hospitals I have used: Florence, Ferrara, Aosta. All excellent experiences. Much better, I should say, than the one I had taking my son to a pediatrician in NYC.


    Well I was not singling out the health care in Italy because I don't know it well at all.
    However, I do know that most things run less smoothly in our country (Italy) than the rest of Europe.
    I can't speak for Milan though, I speak for La Spezia and the Liguria region . Which is where both sides of my family are from (and therefore where I go every year).
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    Bridge School '06 Night 1 & 2
    Venice '07 pummeled by the sleet! 
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  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    Lesbelges wrote:
    Well I was not singling out the health care in Italy because I don't know it well at all.
    However, I do know that most things run less smoothly in our country (Italy) than the rest of Europe.
    I can't speak for Milan though, I speak for La Spezia and the Liguria region . Which is where both sides of my family are from (and therefore where I go every year).

    Ok, give me an example of less smoothly :)

    I understand loosely what you are talking about, but having lived in the US for a while now, I can guarantee you that there is nothing smooth about being always asked for your insurance card first thing whenever you have a medical issue, nothing smooth about trying to fix up their screwups, nothing smooth about having to fight for the things you need etc :)
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • _Crazy_Mary__Crazy_Mary_ Posts: 1,299
    meme wrote:
    No, it's called a government standing up for its people instead of for drug companies. If you don't see that... oh wait, I don't call people crazy just because they disagree with me.

    Drug companies develop medications that save lives. If they don't have a profit motive, they won't develop new drugs that fight cancer and HIV, et al. The drug companies are not the bad guys, here. That's like saying your government is standing up to sick people/patients.
    The average cost of developing a new drug costs $1 billion and twelve years of research.
    I really screwed that up. I really Schruted it.
  • rearviewmirorrearviewmiror Posts: 894
    _Crazy_Mary_ wrote:
    Drug companies develop medications that save lives. If they don't have a profit motive, they won't develop new drugs that fight cancer and HIV, et al. The drug companies are not the bad guys, here. That's like saying your government is standing up to sick people/patients.
    The average cost of developing a new drug costs $1 billion and twelve years of research.
    Fine. Then the government can fund research again.
    9/7/98, 8/3/00, 9/4/00, 4/15/03, 7/1/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 5/24/06, 5/25/06, 6/17/08, 6/22/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 5/17/10, 10/15/13, 10/16/13.
  • _Crazy_Mary__Crazy_Mary_ Posts: 1,299
    rearviewmiror wrote:
    Fine. Then the government can fund research again.

    ;) awesome. There won't be any corruption or waste of tax dollars in that!
    I really screwed that up. I really Schruted it.
  • LesbelgesLesbelges Posts: 434
    meme wrote:
    Ok, give me an example of less smoothly :)

    I understand loosely what you are talking about, but having lived in the US for a while now, I can guarantee you that there is nothing smooth about being always asked for your insurance card first thing whenever you have a medical issue, nothing smooth about trying to fix up their screwups, nothing smooth about having to fight for the things you need etc :)

    I guess I don't have a many specific examples...In general I can mention:
    Politics
    Transportation
    Education

    What I really like is the US is that in general they have this attitude of "the customer is always right". While in Italy, rather than try to solve your problem, they would rather give you the run-around till you give up.

    Magari le mie poche esperienze sono state tutte spicievoli e mi sono fatto una brutta idea di come funzionano le cose in Italia....Chi sa'? :)
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    Bridge School '06 Night 1 & 2
    Venice '07 pummeled by the sleet! 
    Nijmegen '07
    Werchter '07
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  • rearviewmirorrearviewmiror Posts: 894
    _Crazy_Mary_ wrote:
    ;) awesome. There won't be any corruption or waste of tax dollars in that!
    :) Well, it's how we used to do it.

    More seriously, the Europeans develop drugs and they mostly have a socialist style health care sytem in every state. Also, maybe we'd spend less time watching Dick drug commercials and more time watching how a gov't funded scientist cured cancer.
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