Drug companies develop medications that save lives. If they don't have a profit motive, they won't develop new drugs that fight cancer and HIV, et al. The drug companies are not the bad guys, here. That's like saying your government is standing up to sick people/patients.
The average cost of developing a new drug costs $1 billion and twelve years of research.
how important is it to have medication if the people can't afford it. i am not saying that all drug companies are bad but i won't say that they are all great people. companies will still get a profit because the government pays for the medication through your tax dollars. also, new drugs do not cost 1 billion dollars to create.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
When everyone in the community feels cared for on such a fundamental level, it changes a lot. Ripples in a pond. Many countries around the world have set aside greed, and figured this out already.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
this seems to be what we can all expect if we get universal health care
we're not getting Canada's universal health care, and it's actually not bad, there are always horror stories, when millions of people are involved in something.
one benefit of universal healthcare in my opinion would be that the hmo's would get some relief from having to make choices between providing care and saving/making money. By law they have to maximize profits, and that is a very proud pronouncement. With the government involved, some of that will not be an issue.
I'm not saying it'll be perfect, but the hate and fear mongering isn't helping people. The right hasn't offered any counter solutions, if they have and I missed them, they had 2002 - 2006 to implement and have done crap.
It's worth a try to actually strive to be a better nation for all citizens.
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
Magari le mie poche esperienze sono state tutte spicievoli e mi sono fatto una brutta idea di come funzionano le cose in Italia....Chi sa'?
No, no, of course. Much of what you say is true. I just think that some things should not be left for the for-profit people, and health care is one of them
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
You two are funny as hell. i just read this same exact post in another thread! (it was ridiculous in that thread as well). At least be original. Elaborate me, if you will, about the specifics of the Nadster's healthcare plan. That is if you can post it before i exercise this forum's cool little "ignore user" feature.
i throw myself at the mercy of the message pit! for you see, i was unaware of this sacred rule that you can not post relavent information twice! i might take this 'one time ONLY!!!' rule into consideration at a later time or i might not, we'll see....
and before you say it, yes, it is relavent b/c it shows an aspect of his plan that you don't really get. i've seen his plan described as universal, it is FAAAAAR from that
Health care in the US is too expensive and leaves 46 million Americans without insurance and millions more underinsured. Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate for President with a plan for a Universal, Single-Payer, Not-for-Profit health care system.
America's patchwork of for-profit, private insurers waste billions of dollars on spending that has nothing to do with paying for care. Elaborate underwriting, billing, sales and marketing divert huge amounts of money away from delivering health care. Huge profits and staggering compensation for the insurance companies' top executives and CEO's.
To cope with the endless bureaucracy of private insurers, health care providers maintain huge administrative staffs. The administration of the health care system today consumes approximately 31% of the money spent for health care. The potential savings, as much as $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to every American without paying any more than we already do.
In Congress, Representative Dennis Kucinich has co-authored HR 676, legislation which would establish Medicare for All - a universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care system that leaves no American behind.
Resources:
Myths as Barriers to Health Care Reform A paper refuting many of the myths associated with single-payer health care.
No Health Insurance? It's Enough to Make You Sick American College of Physicians paper - Uninsured Americans live sicker and die younger.
Uninsured Americans with Chronic Health Conditions Key Findings from the National Health Interview Survey - the Urban Institute and the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
H.R. 676 - the United States National Health Insurance Act Read Rep. Kucinich's legislation on THOMAS (The Library of Congress
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
didnt think so, so im not paying more taxes so someone without a job, or a legal resident can have healthcare
Well, here's to your health. Cheers!
Hope nothing ever comes along and incompacitates you, otherwise you might end up relying on taxpayers for your health and living needs. Surely you wouldn't want to come across as a hypocrite.
Really, of those who would benefit, how many would take undue advantage of the system? So they have health care. That doesn't cover their rent or food.
Besides, many of the plans presented really push for preventative care, which keeps people healthy, working and contributing to the system.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
"America's patchwork of for-profit, private insurers waste billions of dollars on spending that has nothing to do with paying for care. Elaborate underwriting, billing, sales and marketing divert huge amounts of money away from delivering health care. Huge profits and staggering compensation for the insurance companies' top executives and CEO's. "
nice to have you back Kabong... the above...is spot on. I don't begrudge anyone making a profit generally... but the healthcare system currently sucks largely because of the Insurance Companies.... they are negociating every end of the deal.
Getting healthcare away from corporate paid plans which come from deals with insurance companies won't be a bad thing. I vote we get both sides of withholding out of this arena.... we could probably get better deals if they had to compete anyway.
I mean think about it, when's the last time you heard an insurance company have massive layoffs? Efficiency... I think not.
I don't have the numbers but I bet the top 3 campaigns in the country and the majority of all the influential companies and politicians...get greased quite a bit from the top insurance agencies in the country.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
You two are funny as hell. i just read this same exact post in another thread! (it was ridiculous in that thread as well). At least be original. Elaborate me, if you will, about the specifics of the Nadster's healthcare plan. That is if you can post it before i exercise this forum's cool little "ignore user" feature.
ah, man, i was seriously hoping to have a discussion w/ you over obama's vs kucinich's health care plans....here's obama's: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
NOT universal as i keep hearing ppl describe it as, in fact, does ANYONE know exactly how much 'affordable' is to barack? i think that is an important issue, otherwise his 'plan' is too vague
now,again, here's kucinich's, as you requested, so let's discuss how obama's is better, i'd like to hear that arguement!
Health care in the US is too expensive and leaves 46 million Americans without insurance and millions more underinsured. Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate for President with a plan for a Universal, Single-Payer, Not-for-Profit health care system.
America's patchwork of for-profit, private insurers waste billions of dollars on spending that has nothing to do with paying for care. Elaborate underwriting, billing, sales and marketing divert huge amounts of money away from delivering health care. Huge profits and staggering compensation for the insurance companies' top executives and CEO's.
To cope with the endless bureaucracy of private insurers, health care providers maintain huge administrative staffs. The administration of the health care system today consumes approximately 31% of the money spent for health care. The potential savings, as much as $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to every American without paying any more than we already do.
In Congress, Representative Dennis Kucinich has co-authored HR 676, legislation which would establish Medicare for All - a universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care system that leaves no American behind.
Resources:
Myths as Barriers to Health Care Reform A paper refuting many of the myths associated with single-payer health care.
No Health Insurance? It's Enough to Make You Sick American College of Physicians paper - Uninsured Americans live sicker and die younger.
Uninsured Americans with Chronic Health Conditions Key Findings from the National Health Interview Survey - the Urban Institute and the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
H.R. 676 - the United States National Health Insurance Act Read Rep. Kucinich's legislation on THOMAS (The Library of Congress
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I have lived both in the US and in countries with national/universal health care. Guess which one I find better? Yep... national health care. A while back there was a thread about this and I remember someone saying that for what started as a stupid accident (a nail through a toe?), the poor person ended up paying thousands of dollars in care. I suffered from a pulmonary embolism a few years back, in ICU for days, scans, etc. I did not pay a penny. Also, having my child was 'free' - even with the complications I had which meant I had to go into theatre and a longer hospital stay.
Sure I pay a bit more on my taxes and of course it has its faults, but it is well worth it. I NEVER have to worry if I'm ill or have an accident or anything. I also have the greatest peace of mind that my child will ALWAYS be taken care of in case she has something, even if my personal circumstances at the time are at their lowest.
Those that say they don't want to pay for others who don't work, etc. to get their healthcare and they should sort themselves out... I really hope you ALWAYS have your health and you ALWAYS have a well paid job. I hope life doesn't do one of it's 'turns' on you.
When one talks about affordable health care. There will always be a large percentage of the population for whom it will not be affordable. Not because they don't work but because every penny earned counts towards just 'living'. There are so many hard working people that are still just above the poverty line.
didnt think so, so im not paying more taxes so someone without a job, or a legal resident can have healthcare
you already do, haven't you heard about medicare/aid?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
In spite of having access to the best health insurance and fanciest hospitals, white people are passionate about the idea of socialized medicine. So much so that they have memorized statistics and examples of how for-profit medicine has destroyed the United States.
But before you can exploit this information for personal gain, it’s important that you understand why white people are so in love with free health care.
The first and most obvious reason is “they have it Europe.” White people love all things European, this especially true of things that are unavailable in the United States (Rare Beers, Absinthe, legal marijuana, prostitution, soccer). The fact that it’s available in Canada isn’t really that impressive, but it does contribute to their willingness to threaten to move there.
These desires were only heightened in 2007 when Michael Moore released “Sicko,” a documentary that contrasts the health care industry in the United States with that of Canada, France and Cuba. As a general rule of thumb, white people are always extra passionate about issues that have been the subject of a Moore documentary. As a test, ask them about 9/11, Gun Control, or Health Care and then say “where did you get that information?” You will not be surprised at the results.
But the secret reason why all white people love socialized medicine is that they all love the idea of receiving health care without having a full-time job. This would allow them to work as a freelance designer/consultant/copywriter/photographer/blogger, open their own bookstore, stay at home with their kids, or be a part of an Internet start-up without having to worry about a benefits package. Though many of them would never follow this path, they appreciate having the option.
If you need to impress a white person, merely mention how you got hurt on a recent trip Canada/England/Sweden and though you were a foreigner you received excellent and free health care. They will be very impressed and likely tell you about how powerful drug and health care lobbies are destroying everything.
Though their passion for national health care runs deep, it is important to remember that white people are most in favor of it when they are healthy. They love the idea of everyone have equal access to the resources that will keep them alive, that is until they have to wait in line for an MRI.
This is very similar to the way that white people express their support for public schools when they don’t have children.
Comments
how important is it to have medication if the people can't afford it. i am not saying that all drug companies are bad but i won't say that they are all great people. companies will still get a profit because the government pays for the medication through your tax dollars. also, new drugs do not cost 1 billion dollars to create.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I don't think free healthcare is the answer I think affordable health care is. Make plans people can afford and let them pay their share.
how much do they cost?
we're not getting Canada's universal health care, and it's actually not bad, there are always horror stories, when millions of people are involved in something.
one benefit of universal healthcare in my opinion would be that the hmo's would get some relief from having to make choices between providing care and saving/making money. By law they have to maximize profits, and that is a very proud pronouncement. With the government involved, some of that will not be an issue.
I'm not saying it'll be perfect, but the hate and fear mongering isn't helping people. The right hasn't offered any counter solutions, if they have and I missed them, they had 2002 - 2006 to implement and have done crap.
It's worth a try to actually strive to be a better nation for all citizens.
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
how does european price-controlled drug development compare to america's drug development?
No, no, of course. Much of what you say is true. I just think that some things should not be left for the for-profit people, and health care is one of them
i throw myself at the mercy of the message pit! for you see, i was unaware of this sacred rule that you can not post relavent information twice! i might take this 'one time ONLY!!!' rule into consideration at a later time or i might not, we'll see....
and before you say it, yes, it is relavent b/c it shows an aspect of his plan that you don't really get. i've seen his plan described as universal, it is FAAAAAR from that
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-healthy-nation/
A Healthy Nation
Health care in the US is too expensive and leaves 46 million Americans without insurance and millions more underinsured. Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate for President with a plan for a Universal, Single-Payer, Not-for-Profit health care system.
America's patchwork of for-profit, private insurers waste billions of dollars on spending that has nothing to do with paying for care. Elaborate underwriting, billing, sales and marketing divert huge amounts of money away from delivering health care. Huge profits and staggering compensation for the insurance companies' top executives and CEO's.
To cope with the endless bureaucracy of private insurers, health care providers maintain huge administrative staffs. The administration of the health care system today consumes approximately 31% of the money spent for health care. The potential savings, as much as $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to every American without paying any more than we already do.
In Congress, Representative Dennis Kucinich has co-authored HR 676, legislation which would establish Medicare for All - a universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care system that leaves no American behind.
Resources:
Myths as Barriers to Health Care Reform A paper refuting many of the myths associated with single-payer health care.
No Health Insurance? It's Enough to Make You Sick American College of Physicians paper - Uninsured Americans live sicker and die younger.
Uninsured Americans with Chronic Health Conditions Key Findings from the National Health Interview Survey - the Urban Institute and the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
H.R. 676 - the United States National Health Insurance Act Read Rep. Kucinich's legislation on THOMAS (The Library of Congress
i also dig his plan 'A Sustainable Future' here
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-sustainable-future/
what is obamas plan for this, can you plz post it? what? golly, he's in the pocket of the nuclear power industry and pushes that as 'green'???????
and if you think he is some pinko, socialist you should read his plan on 'Saving Capitalism' among others found here
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/
i would love to compare plans
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
didnt think so, so im not paying more taxes so someone without a job, or a legal resident can have healthcare
Well, here's to your health. Cheers!
Hope nothing ever comes along and incompacitates you, otherwise you might end up relying on taxpayers for your health and living needs. Surely you wouldn't want to come across as a hypocrite.
Really, of those who would benefit, how many would take undue advantage of the system? So they have health care. That doesn't cover their rent or food.
Besides, many of the plans presented really push for preventative care, which keeps people healthy, working and contributing to the system.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
nice to have you back Kabong... the above...is spot on. I don't begrudge anyone making a profit generally... but the healthcare system currently sucks largely because of the Insurance Companies.... they are negociating every end of the deal.
Getting healthcare away from corporate paid plans which come from deals with insurance companies won't be a bad thing. I vote we get both sides of withholding out of this arena.... we could probably get better deals if they had to compete anyway.
I mean think about it, when's the last time you heard an insurance company have massive layoffs? Efficiency... I think not.
I don't have the numbers but I bet the top 3 campaigns in the country and the majority of all the influential companies and politicians...get greased quite a bit from the top insurance agencies in the country.
sorry i was looking for more recent info but i found this article that i think will show alot.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244
it is an interesting article.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
Yeah seriously. Someone without a job? You are obviously a healthy person. Hope for you it stays that way.
ah, man, i was seriously hoping to have a discussion w/ you over obama's vs kucinich's health care plans....here's obama's:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
NOT universal as i keep hearing ppl describe it as, in fact, does ANYONE know exactly how much 'affordable' is to barack? i think that is an important issue, otherwise his 'plan' is too vague
now,again, here's kucinich's, as you requested, so let's discuss how obama's is better, i'd like to hear that arguement!
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-healthy-nation/
A Healthy Nation
Health care in the US is too expensive and leaves 46 million Americans without insurance and millions more underinsured. Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate for President with a plan for a Universal, Single-Payer, Not-for-Profit health care system.
America's patchwork of for-profit, private insurers waste billions of dollars on spending that has nothing to do with paying for care. Elaborate underwriting, billing, sales and marketing divert huge amounts of money away from delivering health care. Huge profits and staggering compensation for the insurance companies' top executives and CEO's.
To cope with the endless bureaucracy of private insurers, health care providers maintain huge administrative staffs. The administration of the health care system today consumes approximately 31% of the money spent for health care. The potential savings, as much as $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to every American without paying any more than we already do.
In Congress, Representative Dennis Kucinich has co-authored HR 676, legislation which would establish Medicare for All - a universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care system that leaves no American behind.
Resources:
Myths as Barriers to Health Care Reform A paper refuting many of the myths associated with single-payer health care.
No Health Insurance? It's Enough to Make You Sick American College of Physicians paper - Uninsured Americans live sicker and die younger.
Uninsured Americans with Chronic Health Conditions Key Findings from the National Health Interview Survey - the Urban Institute and the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
H.R. 676 - the United States National Health Insurance Act Read Rep. Kucinich's legislation on THOMAS (The Library of Congress
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Sure I pay a bit more on my taxes and of course it has its faults, but it is well worth it. I NEVER have to worry if I'm ill or have an accident or anything. I also have the greatest peace of mind that my child will ALWAYS be taken care of in case she has something, even if my personal circumstances at the time are at their lowest.
Those that say they don't want to pay for others who don't work, etc. to get their healthcare and they should sort themselves out... I really hope you ALWAYS have your health and you ALWAYS have a well paid job. I hope life doesn't do one of it's 'turns' on you.
When one talks about affordable health care. There will always be a large percentage of the population for whom it will not be affordable. Not because they don't work but because every penny earned counts towards just 'living'. There are so many hard working people that are still just above the poverty line.
you already do, haven't you heard about medicare/aid?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
You realize that everyone pays taxes right? Even illegal aliens pay sales taxes.
"Stuff White People Like"
#94 Free Healthcare
April 4, 2008 by clander
In spite of having access to the best health insurance and fanciest hospitals, white people are passionate about the idea of socialized medicine. So much so that they have memorized statistics and examples of how for-profit medicine has destroyed the United States.
But before you can exploit this information for personal gain, it’s important that you understand why white people are so in love with free health care.
The first and most obvious reason is “they have it Europe.” White people love all things European, this especially true of things that are unavailable in the United States (Rare Beers, Absinthe, legal marijuana, prostitution, soccer). The fact that it’s available in Canada isn’t really that impressive, but it does contribute to their willingness to threaten to move there.
These desires were only heightened in 2007 when Michael Moore released “Sicko,” a documentary that contrasts the health care industry in the United States with that of Canada, France and Cuba. As a general rule of thumb, white people are always extra passionate about issues that have been the subject of a Moore documentary. As a test, ask them about 9/11, Gun Control, or Health Care and then say “where did you get that information?” You will not be surprised at the results.
But the secret reason why all white people love socialized medicine is that they all love the idea of receiving health care without having a full-time job. This would allow them to work as a freelance designer/consultant/copywriter/photographer/blogger, open their own bookstore, stay at home with their kids, or be a part of an Internet start-up without having to worry about a benefits package. Though many of them would never follow this path, they appreciate having the option.
If you need to impress a white person, merely mention how you got hurt on a recent trip Canada/England/Sweden and though you were a foreigner you received excellent and free health care. They will be very impressed and likely tell you about how powerful drug and health care lobbies are destroying everything.
Though their passion for national health care runs deep, it is important to remember that white people are most in favor of it when they are healthy. They love the idea of everyone have equal access to the resources that will keep them alive, that is until they have to wait in line for an MRI.
This is very similar to the way that white people express their support for public schools when they don’t have children.