Israel may have broken US arms export laws

Last Exodus · January 2007

MrBrian wrote:

Israel dropped more cluster bombs than some lebanese villages had people in them. Over 3 million of those bombs, Over a million that are still waiting to explode on the ground.

Talk about trying to wipe people off a map.

Now how the fuck would YOU know that. If there in fact cluster bombs there, its not like someone would go into the area and fucking COUNT them genius. They're cluster fucking bombs!

Last Exodus · January 2007

Rushlimbo wrote:

Perhaps then as an American we should stop subsidizing your entire military budget and stop blocking all UN sanctions against your barbaric acts against humanity. Then I wouldnt feel it necessary to comment on your nation.

Last time I checked Hezbollah wasn't the entirety of humanity...

Last Exodus · January 2007

miller8966 wrote:

I support israel and its military. Hopefully more of my tax dollars is used for it.

Mine too. At least with Hamas in power were not paying for those fuckers anymore. Let the Arab League support them if they love em so much. But they wont. Because the Arabs are full of shit.

Last Exodus · January 2007

Rushlimbo wrote:

You know you could contribute money directly to the IDF in the form of care packages or something if you really want to give more to them. I know your full of it though. Maybe you should become an Israeli citizen. No, then you would have to do your part in the military unlike in this country and we all know you're just a keyboard warrior. Gungho !!

Yeah where are you enlisted?

goldstar · January 2007

since i know this type of ammo, a few things:
1. i know how much we shot. in total it shouldn't be more than a million, but that really doesn't matter. i'm sure other sources are more reliable than i am.
2. the "dud" percentage for these things (which were extensively used by american forces in iraq) is 5%, so that enormous 33.3% comes as a bit of a shock, and with a bit of skepticism. as someone mentioned before: "who counted them?"
3. yeah. it sucks. quite a few people from my reserve unit have already been released from duty because they couldn't mentally handle what they were doing, and i'm pretty sure that had i been there at the war, the same woud have happened to me.

if you think israel (or israelis) take pleasure in this,
you're overly twisted.

MrBrian · January 2007

Enough news stories and reports on the amount. You'll have to do a search for whatever articles on them you want.

I'm not sure how you figure your amount of 1 million is any more accurate, you count everyone you dropped?

Enough high ranking generals (?)in israel have talked about what they did as a crime.

Plus this "dud" percentage, yeah, if it makes any differene, whatever many blow up, some don't. any better?

I never said anything about pleasure, don't know where you got that from, anyway, what israel did was wrong.

So now we are left with your 1 million, like that's a low amount.

goldstar · January 2007

MrBrian wrote:

Enough news stories and reports on the amount. You'll have to do a search for whatever articles on them you want.

I'm not sure how you figure your amount of 1 million is any more accurate, you count everyone you dropped?

Enough high ranking generals (?)in israel have talked about what they did as a crime.

Plus this "dud" percentage, yeah, if it makes any differene, whatever many blow up, some don't. any better?

I never said anything about pleasure, don't know where you got that from, anyway, what israel did was wrong.

So now we are left with your 1 million, like that's a low amount.

i think i haven't made it clear enough yet...
the numbers, as you've said, are irrelevant, since there's a kid getting blown to bits every day in lebanon now because of that huge spread of bombs. it's sickening. i hate what happened here during the summer. really. it stinks to high hell. the last thing i would say is that israel was all nice and cozy.

but (actually 2 of them):
1. "what israel did was wrong" - i tend to disagree (surprisingly). israel (as a state led by certain leaders) recognized a threat and sought out to neutralize this threat. the question here is not WHAT israel did, but HOW. and when you look into THAT topic, then yes - israel did some bloody awful things
2. after saying that, the next question would be: was hezbullah wrong at WHAT they did and HOW they did it? and that question, as far as i can tell, carries some harsh answers.

fighting sucks because EVERYBODY'S wrong.
there's no such thing as a justified war.

MrBrian · January 2007

goldstar wrote:

i think i haven't made it clear enough yet...
the numbers, as you've said, are irrelevant, since there's a kid getting blown to bits every day in lebanon now because of that huge spread of bombs. it's sickening. i hate what happened here during the summer. really. it stinks to high hell. the last thing i would say is that israel was all nice and cozy.

but (actually 2 of them):
1. "what israel did was wrong" - i tend to disagree (surprisingly). israel (as a state led by certain leaders) recognized a threat and sought out to neutralize this threat. the question here is not WHAT israel did, but HOW. and when you look into THAT topic, then yes - israel did some bloody awful things
2. after saying that, the next question would be: was hezbullah wrong at WHAT they did and HOW they did it? and that question, as far as i can tell, carries some harsh answers.

fighting sucks because EVERYBODY'S wrong.
there's no such thing as a justified war.

Just a question, if someone takes your home, are you not justified in trying to get it back? Of course the way you try and get it back also matters, but that also depends on surrounding factors. nevetheless, what did hezbollah do? the over the border missles or the so called kidnapping of the israeli soldiers? Because those soldiers (as reported by a number of sources) were caught on lebanese land.

B nice · January 2007

MrBrian wrote:

Just a question, if someone takes your home, are you not justified in trying to get it back? Of course the way you try and get it back also matters, but that also depends on surrounding factors. nevetheless, what did hezbollah do? the over the border missles or the so called kidnapping of the israeli soldiers? Because those soldiers (as reported by a number of sources) were caught on lebanese land.

and israel has wanted an excuse to steal the land up to the litani river since its' illegitimate inception

goldstar · January 2007

MrBrian wrote:

Just a question, if someone takes your home, are you not justified in trying to get it back? Of course the way you try and get it back also matters, but that also depends on surrounding factors. nevetheless, what did hezbollah do? the over the border missles or the so called kidnapping of the israeli soldiers? Because those soldiers (as reported by a number of sources) were caught on lebanese land.

first of all, i feel this discussion is turning back to an onslaught, which is fine by me,
but instead of taking part in this, i'll just stand here and watch.

but anyway:
israel left lebanon nearly 7 years ago. the border with lebanon is set according to the U.N resolution in 1947 of creating a jewish state on (some of) the land of what was then known as palestine, and what i call israel (but that's a totally different discussion).
if israel isn't in lebanon, i don't see ANY justification to any act of violence.
"so called kidnapping" - uuumm. as far as i know, it's kidnapping. regarding where the soldiers were (which country's ground) - good point. i don't know about that, and i'll look into it. if they were on lebanese ground, then they are prisoners of war, and as such, deserve certain rights which no one knows if those rights are being kept (red cross visits etc.)

regardless, what you said makes me ask another ("bigger") question:
do you think israel should exist?
(not asking in order to attack you. asking because i want to know)

goldstar · January 2007

B nice wrote:

and israel has wanted an excuse to steal the land up to the litani river since its' illegitimate inception

again - that's an interpretation.
i know you're very opinionated, but please back yourself up a bit.

B nice · January 2007

lies lies lies yeah!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_425

break a stereotype, goldstar

goldstar · January 2007

MrBrian wrote:

Just a question, if someone takes your home, are you not justified in trying to get it back? Of course the way you try and get it back also matters, but that also depends on surrounding factors. nevetheless, what did hezbollah do? the over the border missles or the so called kidnapping of the israeli soldiers? Because those soldiers (as reported by a number of sources) were caught on lebanese land.

another thing that comes up:
according to what you're saying, the iraq should treat the U.S just like hezbullah treats israel

B nice · January 2007

goldstar wrote:

again - that's an interpretation.
i know you're very opinionated, but please back yourself up a bit.

describe the nation created by the un in 1948

B nice · January 2007

goldstar wrote:

another thing that comes up:
according to what you're saying, the iraq should treat the U.S just like hezbullah treats israel

how did we support the mujaheddin treatment of the soviets when they invaded afghanistan ???

did they hate the soviets for the soviets "freedom" ??

invaders ... everybody hates invaders

goldstar · January 2007

B nice wrote:

lies lies lies yeah!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_425

break a stereotype, goldstar

1. what's you're point? that this area is filled with constant tension for too long a time?
i know that already.
2. your response leads me to think that whatever i say, you've already deemed me wrong/liar/whatever. if that's the case, then whatever i say to you will mean nothing. if what i say means nothing, i might as well say nothing, right? so tell me if you are able to listen, or if you just want to constantly point a finger at me (since you've decided i represent all of israel, apparently, which i don't. i represent ME).

goldstar · January 2007

B nice wrote:

how did we support the mujaheddin treatment of the soviets when they invaded afghanistan ???

did they hate the soviets for the soviets "freedom" ??

invaders ... everybody hates invaders

o.k
just making sure you're aware of your country's current invasion.

B nice · January 2007

what?

MrBrian · January 2007

goldstar wrote:

regardless, what you said makes me ask another ("bigger") question:
do you think israel should exist?
(not asking in order to attack you. asking because i want to know)

don't we as people have some standard to live by? I mean we know that taking something that does not belong to you is bad. So to start this off, we have land stolen from others and given away. It's not fair, it's not good. Now the question, should israel exist? If jewish people want a land mainly for themselves they have every right to have that land. But you can not take it from someone else. Then fight the same people who want it back. should israel exist and does it have the right to exist are two different questions I think.

Then we can get into the religious context. Some Jews feel that Israel has no right to exist. This is what they believe based on their religion (judaism)

(Don't worry, I don't mind questions. I enjoy opens debates and discussion.)

goldstar · January 2007

B nice wrote:

describe the nation created by the un in 1948

in short:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_181

29/11/47 - un resolution 181. deviding 'palestine' into 3 zones:
1. arab state
2. jewish state
3. international area (jerusaem)

30/11/47 - arab nations (syria, egypt, jordan, lebanon, iraq) attack the jewish population in 'palestine'.

14/5/48 - israel (while still in war) declares independence.

1949 - truce. as far as i'm concerned (and i'm leaving jerusalem and the golan heights out of this discussion right now, because this is becoming an all encompassing debate... and it's 4 a.m) the lines set at that truce should be israel's borders.

that's pretty much it

Israel may have broken US arms export laws

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