Israel may have broken US arms export laws

Rushlimbo

Sanctions unlikely? Over a MILLION cluster bomblets in populated areas? Is Israel on a terrorist list somewhere?

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Israel may have broken US arms export laws
Sun Jan 28, 1:19 PM ET

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usisraellebanonbombs&printer=1;_ylt=AggiPoifm4Roq60On_XdDwqROrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

The White House will inform Congress that Israel may have violated US arms export agreements by using US-supplied cluster bombs in south Lebanon last year, a newspaper reported.

Unless Congress takes legislative action, The New York Times said, President George W. Bush has discretion under US law about whether to impose sanctions on Israel, which US officials said would be unlikely.

"We're forwarding to Congress a preliminary assessment," State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper confirmed to AFP Sunday, although he declined to reveal what the probe's findings were.

Cooper added that the investigation "was launched when this allegation first came to light," and that there is, at present "no schedule as to a final judgment."

The preliminary report is based on a probe launched in August and on information Israel gave the State Department in late 2006 acknowledging it fired thousands of cluster munitions but denying it broke any agreement, the state department told the newspaper.

Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Mark Regev told AFP in Jerusalem that Israel was fully cooperating with the investigation.

"We've worked in tight cooperation with the United States in full transparency and detail and we are also conducting our investigation into the issue on our side," Regev said.

During its July 12-August 14 air war against Lebanon, Israel dropped more than a million cluster bombs in southern Lebanon, according the United Nations, to counter Hezbollah rocket attacks that were killing Israelis.

The cluster munitions, which spread bomblets over a wide area from a single container, included artillery shells, rockets and bombs dropped from aircraft, many of which the US sold to Israel years ago, a US official told the daily.

The Arms Export Control Act bans the use of cluster munitions against populated areas. Israel says Lebanese civilians were not targeted but were warned ahead of the action by dropped leaflets.

Some State Department and Pentagon officials believe Israel used the cluster bombs in self-defense, while others contend they violated US law because they were used on populated areas, officials familiar with the debate told the newspaper.

"It is important to remember the kind of war Hezbollah waged," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told the Times.

"They used innocent civilians as a way to shield their fighters."

The sanctions could include a ban on the sale of cluster weapons to Israel similar to the six-year ban imposed 25 years ago under then US president Ronald Reagan, after Israel used cluster munitions in its 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

Since Israel manufactures its own cluster munitions, the daily added, any sanctions would have mainly symbolic significance.

Last Exodus

Rushlimbo wrote:

Sanctions unlikely? Over a MILLION cluster bomblets in populated areas? Is Israel on a terrorist list somewhere?

=========================================================
Israel may have broken US arms export laws
Sun Jan 28, 1:19 PM ET

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usisraellebanonbombs&printer=1;_ylt=AggiPoifm4Roq60On_XdDwqROrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

The White House will inform Congress that Israel may have violated US arms export agreements by using US-supplied cluster bombs in south Lebanon last year, a newspaper reported.

Unless Congress takes legislative action, The New York Times said, President George W. Bush has discretion under US law about whether to impose sanctions on Israel, which US officials said would be unlikely.

"We're forwarding to Congress a preliminary assessment," State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper confirmed to AFP Sunday, although he declined to reveal what the probe's findings were.

Cooper added that the investigation "was launched when this allegation first came to light," and that there is, at present "no schedule as to a final judgment."

The preliminary report is based on a probe launched in August and on information Israel gave the State Department in late 2006 acknowledging it fired thousands of cluster munitions but denying it broke any agreement, the state department told the newspaper.

Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Mark Regev told AFP in Jerusalem that Israel was fully cooperating with the investigation.

"We've worked in tight cooperation with the United States in full transparency and detail and we are also conducting our investigation into the issue on our side," Regev said.

During its July 12-August 14 air war against Lebanon, Israel dropped more than a million cluster bombs in southern Lebanon, according the United Nations, to counter Hezbollah rocket attacks that were killing Israelis.

The cluster munitions, which spread bomblets over a wide area from a single container, included artillery shells, rockets and bombs dropped from aircraft, many of which the US sold to Israel years ago, a US official told the daily.

The Arms Export Control Act bans the use of cluster munitions against populated areas. Israel says Lebanese civilians were not targeted but were warned ahead of the action by dropped leaflets.

Some State Department and Pentagon officials believe Israel used the cluster bombs in self-defense, while others contend they violated US law because they were used on populated areas, officials familiar with the debate told the newspaper.

"It is important to remember the kind of war Hezbollah waged," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told the Times.

"They used innocent civilians as a way to shield their fighters."

The sanctions could include a ban on the sale of cluster weapons to Israel similar to the six-year ban imposed 25 years ago under then US president Ronald Reagan, after Israel used cluster munitions in its 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

Since Israel manufactures its own cluster munitions, the daily added, any sanctions would have mainly symbolic significance.

Then add us to the list. We use them readily in Iraq....A little hypocritical isn't it? And I was at the Lebanon border 3 months ago and could see with my own eyes that hezbollah used civillian buildings to fire on civillian israeli homes. There were dozens of bullet holes in every home on the ridge opposite to the Hezbollah village. I think if it were your house, you wouldnt be complaining that the bad guys cant get back into their fucking houses within rifle range of your children again.

catefrances

yes it's absolutely important to remember that hezbollah was using civilian houses as cover. and act accordingly. not be of the opinion that it's still okay to fire upon hezbollah fighters in that situation. you find another way.
and no i am not condoning the firing upon of israeli houses by hezbollah fighters either.

Last Exodus

catefrances wrote:

yes it's absolutely important to remember that hezbollah was using civilian houses as cover. and act accordingly. not be of the opinion that it's still okay to fire upon hezbollah fighters in that situation. you find another way.
and no i am not condoning the firing upon of israeli houses by hezbollah fighters either.

So they shouldn't shoot back? It's hard to understand the dynamics of that region really by reading it and not seeing it. Let me explain. In Israel and Lebanon the areas are really divided up by village. You can be driving down the road and on the right of the road is an arab village and the left a jewish village. The same with the border area. On one side of the border are Israeli villages and the other side of the border are Lebaneese villages. Some of these villages are Shiite and therefore Hezbollah. Some are not. Some are Christian, some are Druze. But in the south, they are largely Shiite, and therefore Hezbollah. From a Hezbollah village to an Israeli village is measured in meters not miles. Easy sniper range and the villages are used purposefully as sniper nests. Entire villages in the Israeli (non - occupied) north were literally peppered with bullet holes. They all had to evacute because of the heavy fire from the village across the hill. And this is in an area of Israel not in dispute...

So while I understand that cluster bomb use is brutal, it's a brutal place to live. Both sides employ brutal means to hang onto to their very tiny little piece of earth. And if certain villages were being used by snipers to kill civillians why on earth shouldn't israel do what it can to protect its citizens from it? Every country on earth has that right...

catefrances

did you not read my post?

the they did why shouldn't we argument doesn't fly with me exodus. israeli intelligence gets up to all kinds of adventures around the world. they should be able to work out how to get snipers without putting civilians in risk and again i am not condoning hezbollah fighters using civilians as shields.

Last Exodus

catefrances wrote:

did you not read my post?

the they did why shouldn't we argument doesn't fly with me exodus. israeli intelligence gets up to all kinds of adventures around the world. they should be able to work out how to get snipers without putting civilians in risk and again i am not condoning hezbollah fighters using civilians as shields.

sorry. wasnt quite sure what you were saying;;;

enharmonic

The American solution will be to give them another billion dollars, a handshake, and a warm smile.

B nice

they will prolly have a "convenient" suicide bombing to justify their war crimes

Byrnzie

B nice wrote:

they will prolly have a "convenient" suicide bombing to justify their war crimes

It came this morning. What good timing!

B nice

Byrnzie wrote:

It came this morning. What good timing!

ironic... huh???


When you only define yourself by telling the world how bad your enemy is....you will always need a bad bad enemy
or else the attention turns to you

miller8966

lol@ it being ironic. May Israel win at all costs.

B nice

miller8966 wrote:

lol@ it being ironic. May Israel win at all costs.

"until jesus wastes their ass" ?

right, millerman?

miller8966

B nice wrote:

"until jesus wastes their ass" ?

right, millerman?

Not really. But hugging trees wont make the palestinians give up terror

B nice

miller8966 wrote:

Not really. But hugging trees wont make the palestinians give up terror

the Lebanese "election" was dubbed the "cedar revolution"

"terror" ?? One mans "terror" is another mans "struggle"



but remember... I am a "liberal" so I am against all violence( war/terror). and religion (judaism/christianity/islam....bigfoot/nessy...whatever)
so there

Byrnzie

miller8966 wrote:

Not really. But hugging trees wont make the palestinians give up terror

An what dya think would make Israel give up terror?

miller8966

B nice wrote:

the Lebanese "election" was dubbed the "cedar revolution"

"terror" ?? One mans "terror" is another mans "struggle"



but remember... I am a "liberal" so I am against all violence( war/terror). and religion (judaism/christianity/islam....bigfoot/nessy...whatever)
so there

Cool. I am a "conservative" and am against ( atheism/drugs)

B nice

miller8966 wrote:

Cool. I am a "conservative" and am against ( atheism/drugs)

you must be a muslim, i guess

miller8966

B nice wrote:

you must be a muslim, i guess

nope christian

B nice

miller8966 wrote:

nope christian

same thing

miller8966

B nice wrote:

same thing

Yea...sure it is. Put down the peace pipe.

B nice

miller8966 wrote:

Yea...sure it is. Put down the peace pipe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_of_Jesus

seriously
it's the same thing



also ... a fundamentalist is fundamentalist

miller8966

B nice wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_of_Jesus

seriously
it's the same thing



also ... a fundamentalist is fundamentalist

well what or who do you consider a christian fundamentalist?

B nice

miller8966 wrote:

well what or who do you consider a christian fundamentalist?

damn , you got me on that one
let me think on that

miller8966

B nice wrote:

damn , you got me on that one
let me think on that

take your time

Byrnzie

miller8966 wrote:

take your time

Jerry Falwell
Pat Robertson

miller8966

Byrnzie wrote:

Jerry Falwell
Pat Robertson

They kill people?

B nice

eric randolph
jim jones
george bush




didn't rat poberson call for the execution of hugo chavez?



I will put up our fundamentalist against any ones. the usa doesn't play second fiddle to anyone on anything

miller8966

B nice wrote:

eric randolph
jim jones
george bush




didn't rat poberson call for the execution of hugo chavez?



I will put up our fundamentalist against any ones. the usa doesn't play second fiddle to anyone on anything

Ill give you eric rudolph but you cant compare jim jones to a terrorist. And gwb is not a christian fundamentalist.

And PAt robertson did not call for the killing of innocent people..like most muslim fundamentalists do.

B nice

miller8966 wrote:

Ill give you eric rudolph but you cant compare jim jones to a terrorist. And gwb is not a christian fundamentalist.

And PAt robertson did not call for the killing of innocent people..like most muslim fundamentalists do.

which muslim fundamentalist?

obl is about as much a muslim fundi as GWB is a christian fundi


hey wait ... i'm a liberal
how did you get me defending the stupid religious people ?? christian muslim jewish .. whatever

you crafty sith

goldstar

during the war in lebanon, i wasn't home. i was living in NY at the time.
if i had been in israel, i would have probably been responsible for quite a bit of those "bomballetes" (or whetever you wanna call them. tiny hand-grenade-size bombs), and i wouldn't be ashamed of it, since i know i served my country the way i should have (the word i'm looking for is loyally).

i would like to make it clear that i don't like the idea that it could have been me, or that my friends at my reserve unit are in great part related to this entire issue, merely because civilians should not be harmed by war, no matter which "side" they're on. a war should be fought between armed forces (i refuse to call hezbulla an army, because, well, they're not). that goes for lebanease AND israeli civilians being killed, due to IDF AND hezbulla actions.

like someone said here, what the U.S congress is doing (in my opinion) is hypocrisy at its worst, since the U.S supplied us with this equipment, and since it has used it (quite a lot, as far as i know) in iraq.

i know fighting is the worst resolution, and i know people here will say things like: "if you're against it, don't fight!". but then, if everyone in israel had done that (since no one i know likes the thought of war), that means no one will fight. and if no one in israel would have fought back, the damage to israel (casualties, property, etc.) would have been incredible. and forgive me for being an israeli citizen, but as one, i prefer maintaining my country's security and existence over any other country in the world.

i always find it amusing when people who don't live in this area have something to say. that's like me opening the sports channel and criticize denmark's kurling team, something i clearly know nothing about.

war sucks.
this area is full of shit (politics, religion, history, etc.)
but it's home. MY home.
yes. if i had been in israel during the war, i would have "pushed the button". no question.
so if it makes you feel good, call me a terrorist.
i'm still alive.


(damn that was long)

Last Exodus

goldstar wrote:

during the war in lebanon, i wasn't home. i was living in NY at the time.
if i had been in israel, i would have probably been responsible for quite a bit of those "bomballetes" (or whetever you wanna call them. tiny hand-grenade-size bombs), and i wouldn't be ashamed of it, since i know i served my country the way i should have (the word i'm looking for is loyally).

i would like to make it clear that i don't like the idea that it could have been me, or that my friends at my reserve unit are in great part related to this entire issue, merely because civilians should not be harmed by war, no matter which "side" they're on. a war should be fought between armed forces (i refuse to call hezbulla an army, because, well, they're not). that goes for lebanease AND israeli civilians being killed, due to IDF AND hezbulla actions.

like someone said here, what the U.S congress is doing (in my opinion) is hypocrisy at its worst, since the U.S supplied us with this equipment, and since it has used it (quite a lot, as far as i know) in iraq.

i know fighting is the worst resolution, and i know people here will say things like: "if you're against it, don't fight!". but then, if everyone in israel had done that (since no one i know likes the thought of war), that means no one will fight. and if no one in israel would have fought back, the damage to israel (casualties, property, etc.) would have been incredible. and forgive me for being an israeli citizen, but as one, i prefer maintaining my country's security and existence over any other country in the world.

i always find it amusing when people who don't live in this area have something to say. that's like me opening the sports channel and criticize denmark's kurling team, something i clearly know nothing about.

war sucks.
this area is full of shit (politics, religion, history, etc.)
but it's home. MY home.
yes. if i had been in israel during the war, i would have "pushed the button". no question.
so if it makes you feel good, call me a terrorist.
i'm still alive.


(damn that was long)

ditto your response.