Israel may have broken US arms export laws

2

Comments

  • RushlimboRushlimbo Posts: 832
    goldstar wrote:
    i always find it amusing when people who don't live in this area have something to say. that's like me opening the sports channel and criticize denmark's kurling team, something i clearly know nothing about.

    Perhaps then as an American we should stop subsidizing your entire military budget and stop blocking all UN sanctions against your barbaric acts against humanity. Then I wouldnt feel it necessary to comment on your nation.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    Perhaps then as an American we should stop subsidizing your entire military budget and stop blocking all UN sanctions against your barbaric acts against humanity. Then I wouldnt feel it necessary to comment on your nation.

    I support israel and its military. Hopefully more of my tax dollars is used for it.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    Perhaps then as an American we should stop subsidizing your entire military budget and stop blocking all UN sanctions against your barbaric acts against humanity. Then I wouldnt feel it necessary to comment on your nation.

    when you achieve a position of power which enables you to change the things in this world, i encourage you to do what you believe is right.
    until then, i encourage you to put proper use to your voting rights, and choose the leaders who you believe represent a better policy (in you opinion).
    because the government (mine, yours, whatever) is the body in-charge of that kind of policy. what we as "little people" can do is vote.

    i don't think you shouldn't criticize what you see as wrong or unjust. but i hope that whatever anyone says, comes after inspecting the subject through and through, from every possible side.
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    it comes down to this:

    i'm not saying "if you don't know what's going on here - don't comment"

    i'm saying: "if you know what's going on here - you MUST comment"
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    Perhaps then as an American we should stop subsidizing your entire military budget and stop blocking all UN sanctions against your barbaric acts against humanity. Then I wouldnt feel it necessary to comment on your nation.

    I support israel and its military. Hopefully more of my tax dollars is used for it.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • RushlimboRushlimbo Posts: 832
    miller8966 wrote:
    I support israel and its military. Hopefully more of my tax dollars is used for it.

    You know you could contribute money directly to the IDF in the form of care packages or something if you really want to give more to them. I know your full of it though. Maybe you should become an Israeli citizen. No, then you would have to do your part in the military unlike in this country and we all know you're just a keyboard warrior. Gungho !!
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    goldstar wrote:
    i prefer maintaining my country's security and existence over any other country in the world.


    I know a few other countries and people who thought like this. Now they get harped on. Your post was actually quite good until I read this. All you had to add was, at any cost. But I am sure you just forgot to type those words out.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    even flow? wrote:
    I know a few other countries and people who thought like this. Now they get harped on. Your post was actually quite good until I read this. All you had to add was, at any cost. But I am sure you just forgot to type those words out.

    maybe i should have written "protect", to get the point right.
    anyway, thank you for taking the time to read it.
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Israel dropped more cluster bombs than some lebanese villages had people in them. Over 3 million of those bombs, Over a million that are still waiting to explode on the ground.

    Talk about trying to wipe people off a map.
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    It came this morning. What good timing!
    You just delight in the death of those you oppose. Sick.
  • MrBrian wrote:
    Israel dropped more cluster bombs than some lebanese villages had people in them. Over 3 million of those bombs, Over a million that are still waiting to explode on the ground.

    Talk about trying to wipe people off a map.
    Now how the fuck would YOU know that. If there in fact cluster bombs there, its not like someone would go into the area and fucking COUNT them genius. They're cluster fucking bombs!
  • Rushlimbo wrote:
    Perhaps then as an American we should stop subsidizing your entire military budget and stop blocking all UN sanctions against your barbaric acts against humanity. Then I wouldnt feel it necessary to comment on your nation.
    Last time I checked Hezbollah wasn't the entirety of humanity...
  • miller8966 wrote:
    I support israel and its military. Hopefully more of my tax dollars is used for it.
    Mine too. At least with Hamas in power were not paying for those fuckers anymore. Let the Arab League support them if they love em so much. But they wont. Because the Arabs are full of shit.
  • Rushlimbo wrote:
    You know you could contribute money directly to the IDF in the form of care packages or something if you really want to give more to them. I know your full of it though. Maybe you should become an Israeli citizen. No, then you would have to do your part in the military unlike in this country and we all know you're just a keyboard warrior. Gungho !!
    Yeah where are you enlisted?
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    since i know this type of ammo, a few things:
    1. i know how much we shot. in total it shouldn't be more than a million, but that really doesn't matter. i'm sure other sources are more reliable than i am.
    2. the "dud" percentage for these things (which were extensively used by american forces in iraq) is 5%, so that enormous 33.3% comes as a bit of a shock, and with a bit of skepticism. as someone mentioned before: "who counted them?"
    3. yeah. it sucks. quite a few people from my reserve unit have already been released from duty because they couldn't mentally handle what they were doing, and i'm pretty sure that had i been there at the war, the same woud have happened to me.

    if you think israel (or israelis) take pleasure in this,
    you're overly twisted.
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Enough news stories and reports on the amount. You'll have to do a search for whatever articles on them you want.

    I'm not sure how you figure your amount of 1 million is any more accurate, you count everyone you dropped?

    Enough high ranking generals (?)in israel have talked about what they did as a crime.

    Plus this "dud" percentage, yeah, if it makes any differene, whatever many blow up, some don't. any better?

    I never said anything about pleasure, don't know where you got that from, anyway, what israel did was wrong.

    So now we are left with your 1 million, like that's a low amount.
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    MrBrian wrote:
    Enough news stories and reports on the amount. You'll have to do a search for whatever articles on them you want.

    I'm not sure how you figure your amount of 1 million is any more accurate, you count everyone you dropped?

    Enough high ranking generals (?)in israel have talked about what they did as a crime.

    Plus this "dud" percentage, yeah, if it makes any differene, whatever many blow up, some don't. any better?

    I never said anything about pleasure, don't know where you got that from, anyway, what israel did was wrong.

    So now we are left with your 1 million, like that's a low amount.

    i think i haven't made it clear enough yet...
    the numbers, as you've said, are irrelevant, since there's a kid getting blown to bits every day in lebanon now because of that huge spread of bombs. it's sickening. i hate what happened here during the summer. really. it stinks to high hell. the last thing i would say is that israel was all nice and cozy.

    but (actually 2 of them):
    1. "what israel did was wrong" - i tend to disagree (surprisingly). israel (as a state led by certain leaders) recognized a threat and sought out to neutralize this threat. the question here is not WHAT israel did, but HOW. and when you look into THAT topic, then yes - israel did some bloody awful things
    2. after saying that, the next question would be: was hezbullah wrong at WHAT they did and HOW they did it? and that question, as far as i can tell, carries some harsh answers.

    fighting sucks because EVERYBODY'S wrong.
    there's no such thing as a justified war.
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    goldstar wrote:
    i think i haven't made it clear enough yet...
    the numbers, as you've said, are irrelevant, since there's a kid getting blown to bits every day in lebanon now because of that huge spread of bombs. it's sickening. i hate what happened here during the summer. really. it stinks to high hell. the last thing i would say is that israel was all nice and cozy.

    but (actually 2 of them):
    1. "what israel did was wrong" - i tend to disagree (surprisingly). israel (as a state led by certain leaders) recognized a threat and sought out to neutralize this threat. the question here is not WHAT israel did, but HOW. and when you look into THAT topic, then yes - israel did some bloody awful things
    2. after saying that, the next question would be: was hezbullah wrong at WHAT they did and HOW they did it? and that question, as far as i can tell, carries some harsh answers.

    fighting sucks because EVERYBODY'S wrong.
    there's no such thing as a justified war.

    Just a question, if someone takes your home, are you not justified in trying to get it back? Of course the way you try and get it back also matters, but that also depends on surrounding factors. nevetheless, what did hezbollah do? the over the border missles or the so called kidnapping of the israeli soldiers? Because those soldiers (as reported by a number of sources) were caught on lebanese land.
  • B niceB nice Posts: 182
    MrBrian wrote:
    Just a question, if someone takes your home, are you not justified in trying to get it back? Of course the way you try and get it back also matters, but that also depends on surrounding factors. nevetheless, what did hezbollah do? the over the border missles or the so called kidnapping of the israeli soldiers? Because those soldiers (as reported by a number of sources) were caught on lebanese land.


    and israel has wanted an excuse to steal the land up to the litani river since its' illegitimate inception
    life has nothing to do with killing time
    Bring it on cause I'm no victim

    b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    MrBrian wrote:
    Just a question, if someone takes your home, are you not justified in trying to get it back? Of course the way you try and get it back also matters, but that also depends on surrounding factors. nevetheless, what did hezbollah do? the over the border missles or the so called kidnapping of the israeli soldiers? Because those soldiers (as reported by a number of sources) were caught on lebanese land.

    first of all, i feel this discussion is turning back to an onslaught, which is fine by me,
    but instead of taking part in this, i'll just stand here and watch.

    but anyway:
    israel left lebanon nearly 7 years ago. the border with lebanon is set according to the U.N resolution in 1947 of creating a jewish state on (some of) the land of what was then known as palestine, and what i call israel (but that's a totally different discussion).
    if israel isn't in lebanon, i don't see ANY justification to any act of violence.
    "so called kidnapping" - uuumm. as far as i know, it's kidnapping. regarding where the soldiers were (which country's ground) - good point. i don't know about that, and i'll look into it. if they were on lebanese ground, then they are prisoners of war, and as such, deserve certain rights which no one knows if those rights are being kept (red cross visits etc.)

    regardless, what you said makes me ask another ("bigger") question:
    do you think israel should exist?
    (not asking in order to attack you. asking because i want to know)
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    B nice wrote:
    and israel has wanted an excuse to steal the land up to the litani river since its' illegitimate inception

    again - that's an interpretation.
    i know you're very opinionated, but please back yourself up a bit.
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • B niceB nice Posts: 182
    lies lies lies yeah!!!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_425


    break a stereotype, goldstar
    life has nothing to do with killing time
    Bring it on cause I'm no victim

    b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    MrBrian wrote:
    Just a question, if someone takes your home, are you not justified in trying to get it back? Of course the way you try and get it back also matters, but that also depends on surrounding factors. nevetheless, what did hezbollah do? the over the border missles or the so called kidnapping of the israeli soldiers? Because those soldiers (as reported by a number of sources) were caught on lebanese land.

    another thing that comes up:
    according to what you're saying, the iraq should treat the U.S just like hezbullah treats israel
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • B niceB nice Posts: 182
    goldstar wrote:
    again - that's an interpretation.
    i know you're very opinionated, but please back yourself up a bit.


    describe the nation created by the un in 1948
    life has nothing to do with killing time
    Bring it on cause I'm no victim

    b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
  • B niceB nice Posts: 182
    goldstar wrote:
    another thing that comes up:
    according to what you're saying, the iraq should treat the U.S just like hezbullah treats israel


    how did we support the mujaheddin treatment of the soviets when they invaded afghanistan ???

    did they hate the soviets for the soviets "freedom" ??



    invaders ... everybody hates invaders
    life has nothing to do with killing time
    Bring it on cause I'm no victim

    b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    B nice wrote:
    lies lies lies yeah!!!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_425


    break a stereotype, goldstar

    1. what's you're point? that this area is filled with constant tension for too long a time?
    i know that already.
    2. your response leads me to think that whatever i say, you've already deemed me wrong/liar/whatever. if that's the case, then whatever i say to you will mean nothing. if what i say means nothing, i might as well say nothing, right? so tell me if you are able to listen, or if you just want to constantly point a finger at me (since you've decided i represent all of israel, apparently, which i don't. i represent ME).
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    B nice wrote:
    how did we support the mujaheddin treatment of the soviets when they invaded afghanistan ???

    did they hate the soviets for the soviets "freedom" ??



    invaders ... everybody hates invaders

    o.k
    just making sure you're aware of your country's current invasion.
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
  • B niceB nice Posts: 182
    what?
    life has nothing to do with killing time
    Bring it on cause I'm no victim

    b nice loves pearl jam like ed vedder loves america
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    goldstar wrote:
    regardless, what you said makes me ask another ("bigger") question:
    do you think israel should exist?
    (not asking in order to attack you. asking because i want to know)

    don't we as people have some standard to live by? I mean we know that taking something that does not belong to you is bad. So to start this off, we have land stolen from others and given away. It's not fair, it's not good. Now the question, should israel exist? If jewish people want a land mainly for themselves they have every right to have that land. But you can not take it from someone else. Then fight the same people who want it back. should israel exist and does it have the right to exist are two different questions I think.

    Then we can get into the religious context. Some Jews feel that Israel has no right to exist. This is what they believe based on their religion (judaism)

    (Don't worry, I don't mind questions. I enjoy opens debates and discussion.)
  • goldstargoldstar Posts: 256
    B nice wrote:
    describe the nation created by the un in 1948

    in short:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_181

    29/11/47 - un resolution 181. deviding 'palestine' into 3 zones:
    1. arab state
    2. jewish state
    3. international area (jerusaem)

    30/11/47 - arab nations (syria, egypt, jordan, lebanon, iraq) attack the jewish population in 'palestine'.

    14/5/48 - israel (while still in war) declares independence.

    1949 - truce. as far as i'm concerned (and i'm leaving jerusalem and the golan heights out of this discussion right now, because this is becoming an all encompassing debate... and it's 4 a.m) the lines set at that truce should be israel's borders.

    that's pretty much it
    sign THE petition!!!
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    10/03/05 philadelphia
    05/09/06 toronto
    05/10/06 toronto
    06/01/06 e. rutherford
    06/03/06 e. rutherford
    09/30/06 athens
    06/12/07 munich
Sign In or Register to comment.