The Thoughts on Disability thread

24

Comments

  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    No offence meant - at all - but cliches like this only serve to illustrate the fear people have of talking about these things.

    How exactly will talking about someone's disability change anything? They are no different to me so whats the point of pointing out a difference.

    I have no fear in talking about these things but I don't see how talking about these things change anything. If a friend of mine wanted to talk about their disability and how its affecting their life then I will be all ears.

    For me to just start discussing the subject out of the blue is more a way of pointing out the difference than making them feel the same.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    How exactly will talking about someone's disability change anything? They are no different to me so whats the point of pointing out a difference.

    I have no fear in talking about these things but I don't see how talking about these things change anything. If a friend of mine wanted to talk about their disability and how its affecting their life then I will be all ears.

    For me to just start discussing the subject out of the blue is more a way of pointing out the difference than making them feel the same.

    Nice to know you feel that way :) Not everyone does though... and if people don't talk about it, THOSE people won't ever be any less ignorant.

    So how do you feel about those comments people made in the passage?
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    No problem... I'm not thinking of a particular one because to some extent, we all share experiences and stigmatisation. I have Spina Bifida and am in a wheelchair.. like you, I think there is a general unwillingness for people to engage critically in the subject, for fear of offending people. If disabled people can get out of being objects of pity, then debate can start.

    I am glad you don't let it affect your life but not everyone is as strong as you.

    I volunteered in the Red Cross Youth Club for a few years and during that time we had to organise benefits for orphans, elderly, poor, cancer patients, disabled kids and so on.. During my interactions with the disable kids I saw some very fragile people. We were instructed not to talk about anything that referred to their disabilities because from past experiences some people broke down crying when the subject was discussed.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    I am glad you don't let it affect your life but not everyone is as strong as you.

    I volunteered in the Red Cross Youth Club for a few years and during that time we had to organise benefits for orphans, elderly, poor, cancer patients, disabled kids and so on.. During my interactions with the disable kids I saw some very fragile people. We were instructed not to talk about anything that referred to their disabilities because from past experiences some people broke down crying when the subject was discussed.

    I have friends like that, so I understand that frame of my mind. I wish I could convince some of them to take pride in it... people will feel differently sometimes.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Nice to know you feel that way :) Not everyone does though... and if people don't talk about it, THOSE people won't ever be any less ignorant.

    So how do you feel about those comments people made in the passage?

    "He was the least disabled person I ever met,"
    "You're the least black person I ever met,"
    "I never think of you as Jewish,"
    "You don't act like a woman."

    You mean these? They are horrendous. Its really sad that you get such comments on most days. What is even more sad is that people say them as a complement.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    "He was the least disabled person I ever met,"
    "You're the least black person I ever met,"
    "I never think of you as Jewish,"
    "You don't act like a woman."

    You mean these? They are horrendous. Its really sad that you get such comments on most days. What is even more sad is that people say them as a complement.

    People just sometimes don't 'think' critically, like I said.. it's almost like when people speak EXTRA slow to non-English speakers. Sometimes it doesn't help them.

    Not sure I find it sad, but it is interesting.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • steve_inhiding
    steve_inhiding Posts: 41
    NoK wrote:
    For me to just start discussing the subject out of the blue is more a way of pointing out the difference than making them feel the same.

    Definately disagree. The more understanding you can have about something, the more you can sympathise and accept it. I can never know what harmless little f**k or my brother think or feel, but by sharing thoughts, feelings and experiences, I can both get closer to an understanding, and show them that I truly care. I definately feel that my experience with my brother has made me more sympathetic with not only him but with mankind in general. That can't be a bad thing.

    I hope this makes some sort of sense.

    Cheers,
    Steve
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    Definately disagree. The more understanding you can have about something, the more you can sympathise and accept it. I can never know what harmless little f**k or my brother think or feel, but by sharing thoughts, feelings and experiences, I can both get closer to an understanding, and show them that I truly care. I definately feel that my experience with my brother has made me more sympathetic with not only him but with mankind in general. That can't be a bad thing.

    I hope this makes some sort of sense.

    Cheers,
    Steve

    I think you're right.....

    I hear a lot of disabled people in comedy say that they never talk about their disabilities because it marks them out as different... but don't you think they should be able to express the freedom to talk about whatever they like? Sometimes, again, I think it's because audiences don't want to hear it or are afraid to laugh.... you wouldn't get a black comedian who treated his colour as a totally no go area... similarly, Scottish, Irish or Asian comedians can scarcely finish 5 minutes without talking about it.... what's wrong with that?
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    People just sometimes don't 'think' critically, like I said.. it's almost like when people speak EXTRA slow to non-English speakers. Sometimes it doesn't help them.

    Not sure I find it sad, but it is interesting.

    I'm in Paris at the moment and I would love it if the French spoke extra slow French to me! Its true it wont help me in the long run but right now when they speak I sometimes feel clueless. I think this situation applies to many other situations and the amount of acceptance one has of their inability to do something.

    There is also the factor of protectiveness in families. Many disabled kids grow up in a secluded protected environment which only seems to increase their distance from everyone else. I had a friend who is in a wheelchair and her parents were extremely overprotective. They wouldn't allow her out with us if they felt something could go wrong.
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    Definately disagree. The more understanding you can have about something, the more you can sympathise and accept it. I can never know what harmless little f**k or my brother think or feel, but by sharing thoughts, feelings and experiences, I can both get closer to an understanding, and show them that I truly care. I definately feel that my experience with my brother has made me more sympathetic with not only him but with mankind in general. That can't be a bad thing.

    I hope this makes some sort of sense.

    Cheers,
    Steve

    My point is, are you as caring to other people as you are to disabled people? It seems that you treat them with that extra sensitivity. Sometimes it takes not caring about someone to make them feel normal. Does that make sense?

    Why do you need to understand? If they are no different to you then there is nothing to understand in the first place. If they feel it is affecting their life then surely I will be there to listen to their problems.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    I'm in Paris at the moment and I would love it if the French spoke extra slow French to me! Its true it wont help me in the long run but right now when they speak I sometimes feel clueless. I think this situation applies to many other situations and the amount of acceptance one has of their inability to do something.

    There is also the factor of protectiveness in families. Many disabled kids grow up in a secluded protected environment which only seems to increase their distance from everyone else. I had a friend who is in a wheelchair and her parents were extremely overprotective. They wouldn't allow her out with us if they felt something could go wrong.

    Now THAT is a very interesting subject. My parents are exactly like that... they've got better over the years, but my mum can't wait to run to my rescue. I've had a phone call from her around three times a week for the past month WHILE I'VE BEEN AT WORK.

    'Can I get you anything?'

    'I'm at work mum. I told you I was at work.'

    'When are you at work?'

    'Every day. Full time.'

    'Do you want a lift home?'

    'No I'll do the bus, like I've been doing for the past three years, every day.

    I've recently got divorced, so I'm living life by myself right now... and I think she's terrified of that. I think she used to view my wife as my carer. As she long as she was around, my mum didn't need to be. Which is bollocks because I live my life on my own, my own way, perfectly well. I am mine.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • steve_inhiding
    steve_inhiding Posts: 41
    I think what most people struggle with is the balance between sympathy and acceptance. Do you help the wheelchair guy struggling up the ramp? Or is that condescending? It can be tough, especially as both disableds and ableds can as flippant in their views as each other.

    I've often heard (especially physically) disabled people say that they most like to take questions from children as they are stripped of fear and prejudice. Now there's something to think about!

    Cheers,
    Steve
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    My point is, are you as caring to other people as you are to disabled people? It seems that you treat them with that extra sensitivity. Sometimes it takes not caring about someone to make them feel normal. Does that make sense?

    Why do you need to understand? If they are no different to you then there is nothing to understand in the first place. If they feel it is affecting their life then surely I will be there to listen to their problems.

    The first paragraph, you're right.... but here's the rub.....

    Everyone is different from each other. No two people are the same and that makes humanity fascinating. You are creating an 'us' and 'them' scenario if you imagine that 'they are the same'.... (the same as who?) and that their only differences are 'problems'. Most people I know with a disability do not have any 'problems' at all. But we might want to talk about how we live our lives, and we might want to compare our stories with yours.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    I've often heard (especially physically) disabled people say that they most like to take questions from children as they are stripped of fear and prejudice.

    And I totally concur. Quite often a kid will say something to me and his mum will be like 'Terence! Get back here! Sorry about that, he doesn't mean it.' I just say 'Don't worry...did he wanna ask something?'
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoK
    NoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    I live my life on my own, my own way, perfectly well. I am mine.

    Amen.

    I guarantee you anyone who sees a parent treating their disabled child with extra care will assume the child requires that extra care.
  • given2fly78
    given2fly78 Posts: 404
    this is an interesting topic to me also.

    My dad suffered a massive cerebral aneurysm 7 years ago and was left with brain damage. He talks, walks, drives but is definately different. Personality wise, short term memory loss, physically less mobile, can't work, is really a different person. And some days you can tell more than others. And it's due to brain damage.

    I see him as my dad. A different dad, but my dad. But it's weird how other people treat him. My family, his friends. I can see a difference. It makes me soooo angry sometimes. He's still the same person, some days he knows he's different, some days he forgets.

    But I see what you are trying to say. He's disabled. He wasn't before - now he is. Which is weird in a way to see the change in attitudes. I feel the way he gets treated sometimes is condecending and with kid gloves. I'm just grateful that sometimes he doesn't notice and that his short term memory SUCKS so when he does, he forgets about it LOL! :-)
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. "
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

    I saw Hard To Imagine LIVE at MSG!
  • steve_inhiding
    steve_inhiding Posts: 41
    NoK wrote:
    My point is, are you as caring to other people as you are to disabled people? It seems that you treat them with that extra sensitivity. Sometimes it takes not caring about someone to make them feel normal. Does that make sense?

    It makes perfect sense and is a very good point. I hope so and I think so. I try to treat everyone equally regardless. There's a fine balance to accommodating peoples extra needs if they're disabled and not drawing undue attention to it.

    Cheers,
    Steve
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    Amen.

    I guarantee you anyone who sees a parent treating their disabled child with extra care will assume the child requires that extra care.

    And that's the most annoying thing about it all..... the slightest thing will perpetuate people's misconceptions.

    My sister tells me things like 'Mum's got good advice and dad would bend over backwards to be there for you - take it, I know that I do - and would - if I was going through what you are, I'd honestly take all the advice and help I can get my hands on.' Obviously I am appreciate of their care....

    ... but there is a difference between me accepting their care, and my non-disabled sister accepting their care. The difference? Other people's misconceptions.

    She doesn't understand that at all.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    given2fly78 wrote:
    this is an interesting topic to me also.

    My dad suffered a massive cerebral aneurysm 7 years ago and was left with brain damage. He talks, walks, drives but is definately different. Personality wise, short term memory loss, physically less mobile, can't work, is really a different person. And some days you can tell more than others. And it's due to brain damage.

    I see him as my dad. A different dad, but my dad. But it's weird how other people treat him. My family, his friends. I can see a difference. It makes me soooo angry sometimes. He's still the same person, some days he knows he's different, some days he forgets.

    But I see what you are trying to say. He's disabled. He wasn't before - now he is. Which is weird in a way to see the change in attitudes. I feel the way he gets treated sometimes is condecending and with kid gloves. I'm just grateful that sometimes he doesn't notice and that his short term memory SUCKS so when he does, he forgets about it LOL! :-)

    Cool - thanks for sharing :)

    Yes, another experience entirely.... acquired disability. I have the 'luxury' of having had my disability all my life, so have come to terms with people's different ways of acting around it.. It's great that you're so perceptive.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • steve_inhiding
    steve_inhiding Posts: 41
    given2fly78 wrote:
    this is an interesting topic to me also.

    My dad suffered a massive cerebral aneurysm 7 years ago and was left with brain damage. He talks, walks, drives but is definately different. Personality wise, short term memory loss, physically less mobile, can't work, is really a different person. And some days you can tell more than others. And it's due to brain damage.

    Excuse the ignorance but I'm presuming this was a very sudden change? If so, that is surely the most difficult thing to deal with as not only is there a before and after, but that there is no time to adjust before you're in the thick of it.

    I hope he's doing ok!

    Cheers,
    Steve

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