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The Thoughts on Disability thread

harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
edited December 2007 in A Moving Train
I've wanted to do this for quite a while; start a thread where we discuss our thoughts and ideas on the big D word. I thought I'd start us off with this, from No Pity by Joseph P. Shapiro:

Nondisabled Americans do not understand disabled ones.
That was clear at the memorial service for Timothy Cook, when longtime friends got up to pay him heartfelt tribute. "He never seemed disabled to me," said one. "He was the least disabled person I ever met," pronounced another. It was the highest praise these nondisabled friends could think to give a disabled attorney who, at thirty-eight years old, had won landmark disability rights cases, including one to force public transit systems to equip their buses with wheelchair lifts. But more than a few heads in the crowded chapel bowed with an uneasy embarrassment at the supposed compliment. It was as if someone had tried to compliment a black man by saying, "You're the least black person I ever met," as false as telling a Jew, "I never think of you as Jewish," as clumsy as seeking to flatter a woman with "You don't act like a woman."


I liked this, because I get comments such as these on most days.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • steve_inhidingsteve_inhiding Posts: 41
    It's a horrible topic, isn't it.

    Whenever I've met a disabled, I try to act as though they're a completely abled person, even though everyone knows they're not. It's the elephant in the room. I think that as long as you see and treat them as equal in as many ways as possible, then you're doing ok.

    Cheers,
    Steve
  • Indian SummerIndian Summer Posts: 2,296
    What are you talking about when you say "because I get comments such as these on most days". Just curious.


    I have a slight disability, and I don't even like to let others know about it unless it's absolutely necessary.
    "It's all happening"
  • Indian SummerIndian Summer Posts: 2,296
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    It's a horrible topic, isn't it.

    Whenever I've met a disabled, I try to act as though they're a completely abled person, even though everyone knows they're not. It's the elephant in the room. I think that as long as you see and treat them as equal in as many ways as possible, then you're doing ok.

    Cheers,
    Steve

    I think most people are the same way.
    "It's all happening"
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Indian Summer wrote:
    What are you talking about when you say "because I get comments such as these on most days". Just curious.


    I have a slight disability, and I don't even like to let others know about it unless it's absolutely necessary.

    You know the 'You don't act like a disabled person'.... 'I'd never have guessed you were disabled'... stuff like that. What should a disabled person act like?
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    There's a blind dude and another guy that drags his legs around on crutches at my gym. No matter what your situation is, it could always be worse. Work with what you got to make it better.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    It's a horrible topic, isn't it.

    Whenever I've met a disabled, I try to act as though they're a completely abled person, even though everyone knows they're not. It's the elephant in the room. I think that as long as you see and treat them as equal in as many ways as possible, then you're doing ok.

    Cheers,
    Steve

    Interesting you say it's a 'horrible topic.' I find i a very interesting topic.

    But I think the point of the passage is this: Why should you have to act like they are an able-bodied person? Why can people not admit that other people have a disability, without shame? Do you try and pretend black people are white as well?

    Not meaning to be funny, just debating...
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • steve_inhidingsteve_inhiding Posts: 41
    my brother has aspergers syndrome and he will never lead even close to a "normal" life, so all I can ask of the world is that he is treated fairly by the general public. Most people on meeting him, think he's just a weirdo (a view I held for a good 20 years or so). He's not. To him, he's completely normal. Again, this took me 20 years to realise. And in an odd way, because of this, I love him more and have more tolerance than before, for both him and others in a similar position.
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    my brother has aspergers syndrome and he will never lead even close to a "normal" life, so all I can ask of the world is that he is treated fairly by the general public. Most people on meeting him, think he's just a weirdo (a view I held for a good 20 years or so). He's not. To him, he's completely normal. Again, this took me 20 years to realise. And in an odd way, because of this, I love him more and have more tolerance than before, for both him and others in a similar position.

    :) Cool. It's interesting.... the experiences of someone like your brother are different to my own, so it's good to get this angle.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    But I think the point of the passage is this: Why should you have to act like they are an able-bodied person? Why can people not admit that other people have a disability, without shame? Do you try and pretend black people are white as well?

    Not meaning to be funny, just debating...

    try to think from the person meeting you perspective....i've meet people in wheelchairs and sometimes i'll get an attitude like "what are you looking at?" and other times the person will make a joke or a comment to put me at ease.....am i making sense? :)
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    cutback wrote:
    try to think from the person meeting you perspective....i've meet people in wheelchairs and sometimes i'll get an attitude like "what are you looking at?" and other times the person will make a joke or a comment to put me at ease.....am i making sense? :)

    I usually do try and do that on meeting people... Some people don't know how to take it though. They think you're being 'down on yourself' just because you talk about it.

    I've heard disabled comedians start with something like..

    'So, I was Disabled...

    well, I wasn't, until I came here tonight and somebody pressed the Off button.'
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • steve_inhidingsteve_inhiding Posts: 41
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Interesting you say it's a 'horrible topic.' I find i a very interesting topic.

    But I think the point of the passage is this: Why should you have to act like they are an able-bodied person? Why can people not admit that other people have a disability, without shame? Do you try and pretend black people are white as well?

    Not meaning to be funny, just debating...

    By a "horrible topic" I mean that it's a topic with a stigma that it shouldn't have and that it's hard to know how someone else will treat it. If that makes sense.

    I say I try to treat a disabled like anyone else. I don't mean I force wheel-chair bound people to wheel themselves upstairs (as fun as that may be ;)) but that I try not to patronise them.

    My brother's disablility isn't physical, but he definately needs care and help and in a strange (and ironical way) I'm glad he has it as I feel I've grown and learned important lessons from dealing with it.

    Cheers,l
    Steve
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    By a "horrible topic" I mean that it's a topic with a stigma that it shouldn't have and that it's hard to know how someone else will treat it. If that makes sense.

    I say I try to treat a disabled like anyone else. I don't mean I force wheel-chair bound people to wheel themselves upstairs (as fun as that may be ;)) but that I try not to patronise them.

    My brother's disablility isn't physical, but he definately needs care and help and in a strange (and ironical way) I'm glad he has it as I feel I've grown and learned important lessons from dealing with it.

    Cheers,l
    Steve

    That's cool man, good attitude... thanks for your contribution.

    By the way there IS a way to get yourself upstairs in a wheelchair.. I've seen it done.. Must try it one day. :D
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • steve_inhidingsteve_inhiding Posts: 41
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    By the way there IS a way to get yourself upstairs in a wheelchair.. I've seen it done.. Must try it one day. :D

    that's something for youtube, pm me with that please
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    that's something for youtube, pm me with that please

    Not a bad idea at all.....
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Not a bad idea at all.....

    SHIT

    someone's beaten me to it....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRgiz2a3Njs
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    We are all disabled in our own way.
  • steve_inhidingsteve_inhiding Posts: 41
    quite seriously though, I'd like to continue this discussion about disablility as it affects so many people. And you're right that it is an incredibly under-discussed aspect of society. I think that the fact that so many people are undiagnosed (especially the mentally ill) is creating a huge problem as everyone is affected by this.

    As I highlighted before, this is a topic dear to me and I'd love to see more general awareness.

    Cheers,
    Steve
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    We are all disabled in our own way.

    No offence meant - at all - but cliches like this only serve to illustrate the fear people have of talking about these things.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • steve_inhidingsteve_inhiding Posts: 41
    Were you thinking of a specific disability when you started this post?

    I'm sure you've noticed that my particular point of interset lies in mental disability, as that's the area I've been exposed to.

    Cheers,
    Steve
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    Were you thinking of a specific disability when you started this post?

    I'm sure you've noticed that my particular point of interset lies in mental disability, as that's the area I've been exposed to.

    Cheers,
    Steve

    No problem... I'm not thinking of a particular one because to some extent, we all share experiences and stigmatisation. I have Spina Bifida and am in a wheelchair.. like you, I think there is a general unwillingness for people to engage critically in the subject, for fear of offending people. If disabled people can get out of being objects of pity, then debate can start.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    No offence meant - at all - but cliches like this only serve to illustrate the fear people have of talking about these things.

    How exactly will talking about someone's disability change anything? They are no different to me so whats the point of pointing out a difference.

    I have no fear in talking about these things but I don't see how talking about these things change anything. If a friend of mine wanted to talk about their disability and how its affecting their life then I will be all ears.

    For me to just start discussing the subject out of the blue is more a way of pointing out the difference than making them feel the same.
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    How exactly will talking about someone's disability change anything? They are no different to me so whats the point of pointing out a difference.

    I have no fear in talking about these things but I don't see how talking about these things change anything. If a friend of mine wanted to talk about their disability and how its affecting their life then I will be all ears.

    For me to just start discussing the subject out of the blue is more a way of pointing out the difference than making them feel the same.

    Nice to know you feel that way :) Not everyone does though... and if people don't talk about it, THOSE people won't ever be any less ignorant.

    So how do you feel about those comments people made in the passage?
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    No problem... I'm not thinking of a particular one because to some extent, we all share experiences and stigmatisation. I have Spina Bifida and am in a wheelchair.. like you, I think there is a general unwillingness for people to engage critically in the subject, for fear of offending people. If disabled people can get out of being objects of pity, then debate can start.

    I am glad you don't let it affect your life but not everyone is as strong as you.

    I volunteered in the Red Cross Youth Club for a few years and during that time we had to organise benefits for orphans, elderly, poor, cancer patients, disabled kids and so on.. During my interactions with the disable kids I saw some very fragile people. We were instructed not to talk about anything that referred to their disabilities because from past experiences some people broke down crying when the subject was discussed.
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    I am glad you don't let it affect your life but not everyone is as strong as you.

    I volunteered in the Red Cross Youth Club for a few years and during that time we had to organise benefits for orphans, elderly, poor, cancer patients, disabled kids and so on.. During my interactions with the disable kids I saw some very fragile people. We were instructed not to talk about anything that referred to their disabilities because from past experiences some people broke down crying when the subject was discussed.

    I have friends like that, so I understand that frame of my mind. I wish I could convince some of them to take pride in it... people will feel differently sometimes.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Nice to know you feel that way :) Not everyone does though... and if people don't talk about it, THOSE people won't ever be any less ignorant.

    So how do you feel about those comments people made in the passage?

    "He was the least disabled person I ever met,"
    "You're the least black person I ever met,"
    "I never think of you as Jewish,"
    "You don't act like a woman."

    You mean these? They are horrendous. Its really sad that you get such comments on most days. What is even more sad is that people say them as a complement.
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    NoK wrote:
    "He was the least disabled person I ever met,"
    "You're the least black person I ever met,"
    "I never think of you as Jewish,"
    "You don't act like a woman."

    You mean these? They are horrendous. Its really sad that you get such comments on most days. What is even more sad is that people say them as a complement.

    People just sometimes don't 'think' critically, like I said.. it's almost like when people speak EXTRA slow to non-English speakers. Sometimes it doesn't help them.

    Not sure I find it sad, but it is interesting.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • steve_inhidingsteve_inhiding Posts: 41
    NoK wrote:
    For me to just start discussing the subject out of the blue is more a way of pointing out the difference than making them feel the same.

    Definately disagree. The more understanding you can have about something, the more you can sympathise and accept it. I can never know what harmless little f**k or my brother think or feel, but by sharing thoughts, feelings and experiences, I can both get closer to an understanding, and show them that I truly care. I definately feel that my experience with my brother has made me more sympathetic with not only him but with mankind in general. That can't be a bad thing.

    I hope this makes some sort of sense.

    Cheers,
    Steve
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    Definately disagree. The more understanding you can have about something, the more you can sympathise and accept it. I can never know what harmless little f**k or my brother think or feel, but by sharing thoughts, feelings and experiences, I can both get closer to an understanding, and show them that I truly care. I definately feel that my experience with my brother has made me more sympathetic with not only him but with mankind in general. That can't be a bad thing.

    I hope this makes some sort of sense.

    Cheers,
    Steve

    I think you're right.....

    I hear a lot of disabled people in comedy say that they never talk about their disabilities because it marks them out as different... but don't you think they should be able to express the freedom to talk about whatever they like? Sometimes, again, I think it's because audiences don't want to hear it or are afraid to laugh.... you wouldn't get a black comedian who treated his colour as a totally no go area... similarly, Scottish, Irish or Asian comedians can scarcely finish 5 minutes without talking about it.... what's wrong with that?
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    People just sometimes don't 'think' critically, like I said.. it's almost like when people speak EXTRA slow to non-English speakers. Sometimes it doesn't help them.

    Not sure I find it sad, but it is interesting.

    I'm in Paris at the moment and I would love it if the French spoke extra slow French to me! Its true it wont help me in the long run but right now when they speak I sometimes feel clueless. I think this situation applies to many other situations and the amount of acceptance one has of their inability to do something.

    There is also the factor of protectiveness in families. Many disabled kids grow up in a secluded protected environment which only seems to increase their distance from everyone else. I had a friend who is in a wheelchair and her parents were extremely overprotective. They wouldn't allow her out with us if they felt something could go wrong.
  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    steve_inhiding wrote:
    Definately disagree. The more understanding you can have about something, the more you can sympathise and accept it. I can never know what harmless little f**k or my brother think or feel, but by sharing thoughts, feelings and experiences, I can both get closer to an understanding, and show them that I truly care. I definately feel that my experience with my brother has made me more sympathetic with not only him but with mankind in general. That can't be a bad thing.

    I hope this makes some sort of sense.

    Cheers,
    Steve

    My point is, are you as caring to other people as you are to disabled people? It seems that you treat them with that extra sensitivity. Sometimes it takes not caring about someone to make them feel normal. Does that make sense?

    Why do you need to understand? If they are no different to you then there is nothing to understand in the first place. If they feel it is affecting their life then surely I will be there to listen to their problems.
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