If I may?....

24

Comments

  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I thought it was one of the most worthless vids I have ever seen

    Oh well I liked it. Unfortunately opinion doesn't do much in defining reality.

    .
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • crittables
    crittables Posts: 342
    i'm going with D
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    My motivation for starting the thread was:

    A. I just wanted to simplify things a bit and see what would come out.

    B. To see WHO would answer, and its 99.999(re-occuring :) )% what i expected.

    My answer is D, because what i see is that america is absolutely the worst of the more "advanced" societies at disciplining its own base human nature, probably BECAUSE of the tub-thumping, almost nazi like patriotism and sense of superiority, that seems ingrained from education thru to media, and is MANIFEST more clearly now than ever in its' actions and words.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Pearler wrote:
    ..... Its like forcefully taking over someones house and eating all their chocolate biscuts and expecting them to be glad about it.

    anyone does this to me they better be in witness protection or have mob connections, because if i find you i will terminate with extreme prejudice or at least hit you upside the head with a baseball bat. :D:p
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I thought it was one of the most worthless vids I have ever seen

    May i ask why you thought that jlew?
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Specifics wrote:
    Just a very simple question that intrigues me if I may, answer if you dare I guess.

    Anonymous answers allowed there's no requirement to supply any personal information.

    Multiple choice, whatevers closest to your genuine opinion on this.

    What do you think was americas' motivation for starting this last war in Iraq?


    A. War on terror

    B. Threat of WMD

    C. Freedom/Welfare of the Iraqi people

    D. Totally in its own selfish interest

    E. Other ( please give brief explanation)

    I'd say all of the above, but E for the oil.
    The other choices are the justification the current administration felt they needed to rally support for their cause.

    I wish someone would really wage a "war" on actual "terror".
    I'm still trying to understand what the hell that means. :confused:
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    Jeanie wrote:
    I'd say all of the above, but E for the oil.
    The other choices are the justification the current administration felt they needed to rally support for their cause.

    I wish someone would really wage a "war" on actual "terror".
    I'm still trying to understand what the hell that means. :confused:

    Right Jeanie you're getting the question because you're the latest one :)

    Do you not think the reason you gave for E actually makes it D?? ?? ?!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Specifics wrote:
    Right Jeanie you're getting the question because you're the latest one :)

    Do you not think the reason you gave for E actually makes it D?? ?? ?!

    Well possibly. Although I think oil is a fairly compelling issue given how the world operates, as Roland has mentioned, so not necessarily just self interest.

    I would probably discount D on the grounds that I don't like the way the question is posed. I don't think America went to war totally in its own selfish interest. I think certainly that there are people in the American government that were motivated purely for their own selfish interest, the President being one of the most self absorbed, but I don't think the American people where availed of all the facts or motivated by selfish self interest. Actually the war on Iraq has seen the biggest war protests in the history of the world. Something like 10 million people world wide protested to stop the war before it was declared. When you consider how statisticians view and calculate actual numbers at a protest in representative terms of the population in general, that's a lot of people!

    Ultimately war is a money spinner for the rich, perpertrated on the poor and innocent. I'm quite sure that underpinning the whole debacle there sits all kinds of big wigs, multinational corporations and let us not forget the World Bank. Yup, war is a money spinner. And Western economies are booming.

    But these are just my uneducated observations and I'm quite sure some one will pop up soon enough and tell me how wrong I am. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    Jeanie wrote:
    Well possibly. Although I think oil is a fairly compelling issue given how the world operates, as Roland has mentioned, so not necessarily just self interest.

    I would probably discount D on the grounds that I don't like the way the question is posed. I don't think America went to war totally in its own selfish interest. I think certainly that there are people in the American government that were motivated purely for their own selfish interest, the President being one of the most self absorbed, but I don't think the American people where availed of all the facts or motivated by selfish self interest. Actually the war on Iraq has seen the biggest war protests in the history of the world. Something like 10 million people world wide protested to stop the war before it was declared. When you consider how statisticians view and calculate actual numbers at a protest in representative terms of the population in general, that's a lot of people!

    Ultimately war is a money spinner for the rich, perpertrated on the poor and innocent. I'm quite sure that underpinning the whole debacle there sits all kinds of big wigs, multinational corporations and let us not forget the World Bank. Yup, war is a money spinner. And Western economies are booming.

    But these are just my uneducated observations and I'm quite sure some one will pop up soon enough and tell me how wrong I am. :)


    No thats more than cool, but im trying to get down to the nitty gritty a little. The question posed is why did the war start? i know there's ubercool (just to push the nazi thing a little :) ) people in the us, but im talking about the america that has an effect outside of its borders, and thats got to be subject to collective responsibility so whatever actions are taken, i say its taken by america, not by an american administration, by gwb, haliburton, but by the collective usa that is supposedly free, votes in its government and therefore is subject to collective responsibility.

    And i think that what Roland says is 99% intuitive all the time but the premise he is working on at the moment ignores any possibility that we are dependant on oil because there are those with a vested interest in us being so, who therefore do not acknowledge/allow new technologies to be mass perfected. (apologies for not talking to Roland directly but im on something else at the minute)

    So for this argument america is collectively responsible for its actions: E or D?
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTZp1qwWdoA
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    Cheguevara6 wrote:
    E. Other


    The people in office right now are war criminals. They are murderers and should be tried and punished to the full extent of the law.

    That said, what they are doing isnt new or odd. And it isnt a Bush Cabal that runs things.

    What is going on right now under Bush is an extention of what has gone on in America since 1619, when jamestown was founded and even before that, since 1492 and columbus orchestrated this whole thing.

    All presidents have tried to extend american power and hegemony. ALL PRESIDENTS. Democrat and Republican.

    All presidents have agreed with the current paradigm and agree that america should expand and engage in imperialist actions.

    Name a president that hasnt? Clinton agreed. Clinton was just as oil hungry, murder hungry and power hungry as Bush is.

    So to answer the original question, the rationale for Iraq was the rationale for all other interventions. For Oil, and imperial ambitions. To spread capitalism around the globe. To gain more land and money.

    To think anything else about the endeavor is to engage in fairy tale weaving.

    This will never end. Even a Democratic president will agree that this war SHOULD be fought in some capacity. And even the Democrats feel getting oil is good, and even Democrats feel that spreading capitalism around the globe is a good thing.

    The only remedy is to abolish the entire system, to bring the whole thing to a halt and tear it down. And to put in its place something more humane.

    yea, what he/she said.
    except i must say president lincoln is a bad ass.
    out of em all, lincoln was/is the best one.
    and that rosevelt outfit had some dignity.
    but yes columbus started it all.
    i think columbus is a fuckin a-hole.
    id love to see the next president be an indian chief.
    all wearin his head dress feathers thingy.
    that'd be pritty fuckin ok to my notion.
    south-american indians were destroyed by spain.
    just like they did here with columbus.
    it hasnt stoped yet.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    D.

    That's my motivation for acting. That is the motivation for the vast majority of intellectually honest people. When people act of their own volition it is usually in a self-interested way.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Specifics wrote:
    No thats more than cool, but im trying to get down to the nitty gritty a little. The question posed is why did the war start? i know there's ubercool (just to push the nazi thing a little :) ) people in the us, but im talking about the america that has an effect outside of its borders, and thats got to be subject to collective responsibility so whatever actions are taken, i say its taken by america, not by an american administration, by gwb, haliburton, but by the collective usa that is supposedly free, votes in its government and therefore is subject to collective responsibility.

    And i think that what Roland says is 99% intuitive all the time but the premise he is working on at the moment ignores any possibility that we are dependant on oil because there are those with a vested interest in us being so, who therefore do not acknowledge/allow new technologies to be mass perfected. (apologies for not talking to Roland directly but im on something else at the minute)

    So for this argument america is collectively responsible for its actions: E or D?


    I'd still say E. Other. Because I don't think all the reasons why the war was started have become apparent yet. And I'm quite sure that history will show that Europe and Saudi Arabia and a whole bunch of other countries involvements will be revealed eventually. Personally I think that we will see that the war was started by behind the scenes power brokers who used the current American administration and therefore it's people as the tool to further their own agendas.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    Cheguevara6 wrote:
    E. Other


    The people in office right now are war criminals. They are murderers and should be tried and punished to the full extent of the law.

    That said, what they are doing isnt new or odd. And it isnt a Bush Cabal that runs things.

    What is going on right now under Bush is an extention of what has gone on in America since 1619, when jamestown was founded and even before that, since 1492 and columbus orchestrated this whole thing.

    All presidents have tried to extend american power and hegemony. ALL PRESIDENTS. Democrat and Republican.

    All presidents have agreed with the current paradigm and agree that america should expand and engage in imperialist actions.

    Name a president that hasnt? Clinton agreed. Clinton was just as oil hungry, murder hungry and power hungry as Bush is.

    So to answer the original question, the rationale for Iraq was the rationale for all other interventions. For Oil, and imperial ambitions. To spread capitalism around the globe. To gain more land and money.

    To think anything else about the endeavor is to engage in fairy tale weaving.

    This will never end. Even a Democratic president will agree that this war SHOULD be fought in some capacity. And even the Democrats feel getting oil is good, and even Democrats feel that spreading capitalism around the globe is a good thing.

    The only remedy is to abolish the entire system, to bring the whole thing to a halt and tear it down. And to put in its place something more humane.


    ive said it for years.
    shut the goverment down.
    this is like rebooting a computer system.
    perhaps even globaly.
    unite the globe as one, rather than seperation.
    if ppl all quit goin to work for a week, this globe of ppl would halt.
    the human goverment axis would screach to that halt.
    this might be the only way to take what is ours back.
    famous words, we the people for the people.
    that hasnt really been the case.
    we, as in the globe of human-beings call ourselves civilized.
    we are far from this concept.
    power, greed, murder, destroy, conquer, lie, cheat, and steal.
    rape and molest the earth and each other.
    quite sick.
    its been done since we were not even an up-right walking being.
    neanderthal,cromagnon, we are still that.
    our genes sing that same old song.
    were only out of touch more so with our earth than they were.
    and thats cause of, alot of it is, the easy way out.
    and our thinking process increased on the inventing process.
    and many other reasons.
    evolution isnt always the best way.
    or it is but its an uphill battle.
    again, i use the word battle.
    what a negative word.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    Specifics wrote:

    What do you think was americas' motivation for starting this last war in Iraq?


    A. War on terror

    B. Threat of WMD

    C. Freedom/Welfare of the Iraqi people

    D. Totally in its own selfish interest

    E. Other ( please give brief explanation)


    D.
    I am reading Chomsky "understanding power" since my last holiday and still,
    so this/ D. has become my conclusion.

    ...not that Europe or even Germany is any better, but we had blown it up the last 1000 years, so the last hundred years have been and is today only the US interest ruling the world with WAR and the military machine...
    ...and all due to

    D. period.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • ForestBrain
    ForestBrain Posts: 460
    e: I ain't going there
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    Jeanie wrote:
    I'd still say E. Other. Because I don't think all the reasons why the war was started have become apparent yet. And I'm quite sure that history will show that Europe and Saudi Arabia and a whole bunch of other countries involvements will be revealed eventually. Personally I think that we will see that the war was started by behind the scenes power brokers who used the current American administration and therefore it's people as the tool to further their own agendas.

    Thats interesting, but i cant see what Europe gained out of it, apart from Britain, who have made a nice cosy nest in the bunghole. If the Euro thing thats coming out is true then i can only see a loss.
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    jeffbr wrote:
    D.

    That's my motivation for acting. That is the motivation for the vast majority of intellectually honest people. When people act of their own volition it is usually in a self-interested way.

    Your honesty would have been cool, spoilt by the lame justification.
    I'm rubber you're glue.

    Boing



    Stick
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    d


    although i would like to add the distinction of 'the american government'...and not simply 'americans' b/c a GREAT many of us were dead-set against this war from the get-go.


    a, b and c were simply handy little catch-phrases to try and hoodwink the american public into buying into it. sadly, it seemed to have worked a good long while for many, all that flag-waving seems to do that for a lot, why i do not know.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • korby
    korby Posts: 298
    D & E

    for those americans who wanted it
    its ok

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