If I may?....
Specifics
Posts: 417
Just a very simple question that intrigues me if I may, answer if you dare I guess.
Anonymous answers allowed there's no requirement to supply any personal information.
Multiple choice, whatevers closest to your genuine opinion on this.
What do you think was americas' motivation for starting this last war in Iraq?
A. War on terror
B. Threat of WMD
C. Freedom/Welfare of the Iraqi people
D. Totally in its own selfish interest
E. Other ( please give brief explanation)
Anonymous answers allowed there's no requirement to supply any personal information.
Multiple choice, whatevers closest to your genuine opinion on this.
What do you think was americas' motivation for starting this last war in Iraq?
A. War on terror
B. Threat of WMD
C. Freedom/Welfare of the Iraqi people
D. Totally in its own selfish interest
E. Other ( please give brief explanation)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
More or less idealism of the neo-cons.
I think it is a bit of all of the above, and probably much more stuff beneath the surface. When they say it's a war on terror or for the good of the Iraqi people, part of them fully believes that, even while another part is salivating over their own selfish interests. Therefore , they feel at peace and even honourable. It's the script that they tell themselves over and over, when they can't deal with their own truth. People are only aware of their conscious motivations. And people deny their ugly motivations and make them go unconscious, so that they can be at peace with themselves. Unfortunately for them, but great for us, is that those of us who are perceptive see the unconscious motivations that reflect all over the place. We can see realistically. We have a vested interest in seeing things realistically, while they have a vested interest in denying their own ugliness and flaws, even to themselves. It's par for the course of normal human denial. We all do this. The WMD part, well most humans are controlled by fear to different degrees, so it is definitely a valid variable as well. If they were honestly concerned about WMDs on one hand, while also heinously milking the fear of the populations on the other, I would not be at all surprised.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
A, B, and C were/are just selling features...
the framework and ideology for taking Iraq was in place long before 9/11 ever happened. And yes 9/11 was most likely a result of America's actions i.e. blowback...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
America was motivated by the media.
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Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
you tell me how this is possible and i'll tell you the motivation behind the invasion of iraq.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7374585792978336967
Rob Newman - The History Of Oil
Dude...nice vid. It should be a thread of it's own. The truth is right there.
thanks.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/democratic_candidates_debate.html
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
It's all about oil. Without it we'd be living in the stone age again. You absolutely can't say it isn't no matter how it looks...it's all about oil 100%.
It's the most obvious thing there is about the whole situation. It's 1+1 mentality... It's like water or oxygen...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
It's about WHO CONTROLS the oil production and WHO PROFITS from it.
It is not about the amount of oil produced.
Revealed: Why Your Sons and Daughters Died in Iraq
May 27, 2007
by Cliff Carson
Could it be that our soldiers died to enrich five or six International Oil Companies (Four of them American)? Or that possibly a million Iraqis suffered the same fate for the same reason? You might recall that President Bush claimed that one of the Benchmarks the Iraqi Government must meet is a deal to share the Oil revenues. What he didn't say is with whom they, the Iraqis, will have to share. Seems like it's not the Iraqis.
This is according to a speech by Dennis Kucinich last week, well not all of it was a speech; some of it was a reading of the Oil deal that Bush is saying Iraqi must sign. And was the reported deal ever an eye opener!
Seems that those International Oil Companies (can you say EXXON, MOBILE, and BP for starters), stand to pluck the Iraqi people for about $21 Trillion. Folks that's twenty one thousand BILLION. In perspective, that's about double the United States current cash debt, and a little over 40% of the accrued National Debt of $50 Trillion. Figured another way, it's about $70,000 for every American currently alive. And it will all go to about six Oil companies. Well not all, there's the Congress to be bought off, actually it seems they already have, but they still need to get a little more of the harvest.
These are the guys that brought you $3.25 gas and rising. Once they corner the Oil market what might gas cost? How many of your family members are you willing to send to their death so that these Oil companies might get just a little bit richer? For every Human being who has died, American Soldier and Iraqi Citizen, these companies stand to rake in about $21,000,000. And just think, their cohorts got to furnish the War materials, and they made off with upwards of a Trillion dollars already. Damn, what a profitable business this war mongering is! For the few that is. For us common folk, it's deadly.
How did I come to these figures? Well according to the Oil deal that Bush says must be signed, Kucinich reports that the deal requires that the Oil Companies get control of over 80% of the Iraqi Oil fields. The CEO's of those Companies have complete control of every aspect of the oil for 35 years into the future. Iraq gets to keep 17 oil fields, but even for these fields, operational control is in the hands of the International Oil companies.
A. To an extent, thats more the fruits of a number of other factors
B. I can understand that, considering the amount of insecure nuclear facilities, and the amounts of nuclear material unaccounted for.
Plus with all that desert and infinite funds, who says some evil shit isnt hidden somewhere ?
C. For some, yes, for others, just brutal division of loyalty.
D. Somewhat, its all very cartoon like really, I see Rocky and Bullwinkle as very prophetic in this whole smelly war scene. Only everyone involved has a bit of Boris Badenoff (sp) in them, some more than others.
E. Paranoia, and the need to attempt to be the ruling faction on planet earth born out of the fact that in the minds of many americans, theres this blind belief that they themselves are THE superiour race on earth.
Plus oil is economy. Its like forcefully taking over someones house and eating all their chocolate biscuts and expecting them to be glad about it.
The people in office right now are war criminals. They are murderers and should be tried and punished to the full extent of the law.
That said, what they are doing isnt new or odd. And it isnt a Bush Cabal that runs things.
What is going on right now under Bush is an extention of what has gone on in America since 1619, when jamestown was founded and even before that, since 1492 and columbus orchestrated this whole thing.
All presidents have tried to extend american power and hegemony. ALL PRESIDENTS. Democrat and Republican.
All presidents have agreed with the current paradigm and agree that america should expand and engage in imperialist actions.
Name a president that hasnt? Clinton agreed. Clinton was just as oil hungry, murder hungry and power hungry as Bush is.
So to answer the original question, the rationale for Iraq was the rationale for all other interventions. For Oil, and imperial ambitions. To spread capitalism around the globe. To gain more land and money.
To think anything else about the endeavor is to engage in fairy tale weaving.
This will never end. Even a Democratic president will agree that this war SHOULD be fought in some capacity. And even the Democrats feel getting oil is good, and even Democrats feel that spreading capitalism around the globe is a good thing.
The only remedy is to abolish the entire system, to bring the whole thing to a halt and tear it down. And to put in its place something more humane.
take away oil...big (big) problem. US oil reserves peaked in and around 1970.
Who's switching to Euro's? who's getting their ass reamed? Which economy will most likey fall into another great depression if oiil goes to Euro's internationally?... the Unites States of America that's who...
I wouldn't be here typing this and you wouldn't be reading it if it wasn't for lots of free flowing oil energy. Not that there wouldn't be computers...you and I most likely would not even be born. Society is at the level it is and sustainable thus far because of oil. It's our everything.
So who again doesn't think it's all about oil?
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Oh well I liked it. Unfortunately opinion doesn't do much in defining reality.
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
A. I just wanted to simplify things a bit and see what would come out.
B. To see WHO would answer, and its 99.999(re-occuring
My answer is D, because what i see is that america is absolutely the worst of the more "advanced" societies at disciplining its own base human nature, probably BECAUSE of the tub-thumping, almost nazi like patriotism and sense of superiority, that seems ingrained from education thru to media, and is MANIFEST more clearly now than ever in its' actions and words.
anyone does this to me they better be in witness protection or have mob connections, because if i find you i will terminate with extreme prejudice or at least hit you upside the head with a baseball bat.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
May i ask why you thought that jlew?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
I'd say all of the above, but E for the oil.
The other choices are the justification the current administration felt they needed to rally support for their cause.
I wish someone would really wage a "war" on actual "terror".
I'm still trying to understand what the hell that means.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Right Jeanie you're getting the question because you're the latest one
Do you not think the reason you gave for E actually makes it D?? ?? ?!
Well possibly. Although I think oil is a fairly compelling issue given how the world operates, as Roland has mentioned, so not necessarily just self interest.
I would probably discount D on the grounds that I don't like the way the question is posed. I don't think America went to war totally in its own selfish interest. I think certainly that there are people in the American government that were motivated purely for their own selfish interest, the President being one of the most self absorbed, but I don't think the American people where availed of all the facts or motivated by selfish self interest. Actually the war on Iraq has seen the biggest war protests in the history of the world. Something like 10 million people world wide protested to stop the war before it was declared. When you consider how statisticians view and calculate actual numbers at a protest in representative terms of the population in general, that's a lot of people!
Ultimately war is a money spinner for the rich, perpertrated on the poor and innocent. I'm quite sure that underpinning the whole debacle there sits all kinds of big wigs, multinational corporations and let us not forget the World Bank. Yup, war is a money spinner. And Western economies are booming.
But these are just my uneducated observations and I'm quite sure some one will pop up soon enough and tell me how wrong I am.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
No thats more than cool, but im trying to get down to the nitty gritty a little. The question posed is why did the war start? i know there's ubercool (just to push the nazi thing a little
And i think that what Roland says is 99% intuitive all the time but the premise he is working on at the moment ignores any possibility that we are dependant on oil because there are those with a vested interest in us being so, who therefore do not acknowledge/allow new technologies to be mass perfected. (apologies for not talking to Roland directly but im on something else at the minute)
So for this argument america is collectively responsible for its actions: E or D?
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