Was Housewife Too Quick To Pull Trigger?

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  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Nope. sorry. You cannot pick what YOU wish to debate. Either you take on the entire issue or let it be.
    In this specific case (the Pittaras case), she was under attack and has the complete right to use deadly force because she did not know whether or not she would be killed by her attacker. She made the right decision because there is a good probable outcome resulting in the end of her life.
    In the Horn case... he went out looking for a fight. He had the police dispatcher on the phone as it was happening. his life was NOT in danger until he made the decision to step outside and into the situation... a situation that Horn could have clearly avoided. Pittaras was not given the choice... she did not place herself in danger.
    You are trying to compare Apples and Volvos. They do not compare.
    ...
    Finally... what kind of laywer were you?

    A lawyer that has to be clueless because these two cases do not compare. Also if half of her neighbors felt she should have let her get raped then let the police handle things well I can see why she had a loaded gun on or near her nightstand.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Songburst wrote:
    Doesn't it blow anybody else's mind that she had a loaded handgun on (or in) her nightstand? Who does that? I guess it worked out for her but that's fucking crazy. I can't imagine living in so much fear that I would require sleeping with a loaded gun. Some of you Americans are a rare breed for sure.
    ...
    I'm the same way.
    I knew a gal that slept with a loaded .44... a fucking .44!!! Stuffed between her mattress and box spring!!! That was fucking scary. Granted, she was good with a gun... but, still... a loaded gun in bed.
    And I got caught up in the paranoia and had a Charter Arms .38 cop pistol... but, sold it right after they shot John Lennon. I was dating a cop at the time and she would feed me all these stories and statistics about all of this horrible shit about guys coming into my home or on the street and shooting me... and got me the gun... had a shaved hammer and a hair trigger. I just decided one day... I don't want to be scared any more.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    g under p wrote:
    A lawyer that has to be clueless because these two cases do not compare. Also if half of her neighbors felt she should have let her get raped then let the police handle things well I can see why she had a loaded gun on or near her nightstand.

    Peace
    There are similarities.
    If you see someone being personally violated, and invaded whether it be through your neighbor's house or your own, do you not intervene for the benefit of security? The guy on the phone tried to make a citizen's arrest, but the thieves (and how did the neighbor know that there wasn't more than thievery going on?) didn't heed the warning and got shot.
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  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Songburst wrote:
    Doesn't it blow anybody else's mind that she had a loaded handgun on (or in) her nightstand? Who does that? I guess it worked out for her but that's fucking crazy. I can't imagine living in so much fear that I would require sleeping with a loaded gun. Some of you Americans are a rare breed for sure.

    I'm not sure that I see what it has to do with being American. I loathe guns generally except for some circumstances and I certainly can't own one here, BUT I have lived in neighbourhoods and even with flat mates where I wish I'd had one. Not because I WANT to shoot anyone but man I'm sick and tired of being the one that gets shat on and being in fear for my life and health. And I can move, I can lock my doors, I can change my clothes and appearance, I can hide out but WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I? I'm not the one breaking in to someone elses house wishing to do them harm for whatever reason. Or trying to inflict my violent bullshit on someone else.
    Fact is not EVERYWHERE is little pink houses with picket fences and Carol Brady living next door. Some places you do need to be prepared to protect yourself. She's probably devestated it came down to that but for her sake I'm glad she had the forethought and sensed the danger and was prepared. It saved her life.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I'm the same way.
    I knew a gal that slept with a loaded .44... a fucking .44!!! Stuffed between her mattress and box spring!!! That was fucking scary. Granted, she was good with a gun... but, still... a loaded gun in bed.
    And I got caught up in the paranoia and had a Charter Arms .38 cop pistol... but, sold it right after they shot John Lennon. I was dating a cop at the time and she would feed me all these stories and statistics about all of this horrible shit about guys coming into my home or on the street and shooting me... and got me the gun... had a shaved hammer and a hair trigger. I just decided one day... I don't want to be scared any more.

    "...sold it right after they shot John Lennon..."

    That's got to be one of the most contrived pieces of political BS I've ever seen on this board.
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  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    gue_barium wrote:
    There are similarities.
    If you see someone being personally violated, and invaded whether it be through your neighbor's house or your own, do you not intervene for the benefit of security? The guy on the phone tried to make a citizen's arrest, but the thieves (and how did the neighbor know that there wasn't more than thievery going on?) didn't heed the warning and got shot.

    What, I know my neighbors well on both sides and across the street and last thing I'm going to do is intervene with a gun. There's children about and too many things could go wrong, i will call the police and get some plates. Certainly not in the case of a burglary whatever that stolen can be replaced.

    If you want to be a hero to your neighbors then go right ahead, I'm sure you'll get compensated in the future for your good deeds.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    g under p wrote:
    What, I know my neighbors well on both sides and across the street and last thing I'm going to do is intervene with a gun. There's children about and too many things could go wrong, i will call the police and get some plates. Certainly not in the case of a burglary whatever that stolen can be replaced.

    If you want to be a hero to your neighbors then go right ahead, I'm sure you'll get compensated in the future for your good deeds.

    Peace

    It isn't about compensation, it is about immediate danger. Sure, these guys may be fly-by-night burglars, but how do you know that while you are witnessing your neighbor's house being pillaged? How do you know your neighbors haven't had their throats cut?
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  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    gue_barium wrote:
    It isn't about compensation, it is about immediate danger. Sure, these guys may be fly-by-night burglars, but how do you know that while you are witnessing your neighbor's house being pillaged? How do you know your neighbors haven't had their throats cut?

    I don't, that's why I would call the police and while I don't I can't assume that they did get their throats cut and intervene. I'll leave that to the police to handle. I could go over to their and I get shot by my neighbor by mistake.

    You want to be a hero to your neighbor go right ahead.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    g under p wrote:
    I don't, that's why I would call the police and while I don't I can't assume that they did get their throats cut and intervene. I'll leave that to the police to handle. I could go over to their and I get shot by my neighbor by mistake.

    You want to be a hero to your neighbor go right ahead.

    Peace

    Why does it have to equate that if you do help you're motivated by wanting to be a hero?

    Seems to me that people help each other out, complete strangers, if they sense the danger all the time. And if you asked most of them they'll tell you that they don't consider themselves heroes at all. They just do what they're compelled to do by their fight/flight response or gut instinct. I know I'd want my neighbours or anyone to help me if I needed it and I reckon if you were in a life or death situation you'd be wanting any help you could get too. People don't always help each other simply because they want accolades.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Jeanie wrote:
    Why does it have to equate that if you do help you're motivated by wanting to be a hero?

    Seems to me that people help each other out, complete strangers, if they sense the danger all the time. And if you asked most of them they'll tell you that they don't consider themselves heroes at all. They just do what they're compelled to do by their fight/flight response or gut instinct. I know I'd want my neighbours or anyone to help me if I needed it and I reckon if you were in a life or death situation you'd be wanting any help you could get too. People don't always help each other simply because they want accolades.

    No kidding. This neighbor was aware enough to know something was awry with the people in his neighbor's house... and that says something about the way that neighborhood know each other. How can that be a bad thing?

    Sounds like G&P prefers to be strangers to his neighbors in a way that he can avoid any conflict that may occur by simply dialing 911.
    911 is everything, not my problem.
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  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    gue_barium wrote:
    No kidding. This neighbor was aware enough to know something was awry with the people in his neighbor's house... and that says something about the way that neighborhood know each other. How can that be a bad thing?

    Sounds like G&P prefers to be strangers to his neighbors in a way that he can avoid any conflict that may occur by simply dialing 911.
    911 is everything, not my problem.

    Yup, EVERYBODY becomes a stranger when the Patriots or Red Sox or Celtics Or Bruins are on. Dem peeps are on their own. :D Lighten up people.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    g under p wrote:
    Yup, EVERYBODY becomes a stranger when the Patriots or Red Sox or Celtics Or Bruins are on. Dem peeps are on their own. :D Lighten up people.

    Peace
    What?!
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    g under p wrote:
    Yup, EVERYBODY becomes a stranger when the Patriots or Red Sox or Celtics Or Bruins are on. Dem peeps are on their own. :D Lighten up people.

    Peace

    yep. im like that when supernatural or californication is on. ;):D
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    gue_barium wrote:
    I read that thread. I think that guy was within rights to do what he did. To be in a neighborhood watch group is to be vigilent to those in your neighborhood as your own.
    Now, on the other hand, could he not have videotaped or taken pictures of
    what he was witnessing? Maybe, maybe not.

    within his rights to kill burglars? what a great place to live. :(
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    gue_barium wrote:
    No kidding. This neighbor was aware enough to know something was awry with the people in his neighbor's house... and that says something about the way that neighborhood know each other. How can that be a bad thing?

    Sounds like G&P prefers to be strangers to his neighbors in a way that he can avoid any conflict that may occur by simply dialing 911.
    911 is everything, not my problem.


    I don't think it is a bad thing gue. I'm not particularly happy with the outcome of the Horn case but as he acted within the law as it pertained to him as far as I can see, sure I wish that he'd not killed the burglars BUT I wasn't there, I don't know him, I don't know what he did or didn't do, I only know the outcome. And having rung 000 (our 911 here) myself and been TOLD to GO and sort out something that was happening in my neighbourhood :eek: , or had to ring them repeatedly for help only to have them rock up HOURS later and do nothing anyway, one has to wonder at what people think 911 (or 000) is gonna do anyway? I think OLS has had a valid point that they only turn up AFTER and mop up in a lot of cases. I don't want what they're "mopping up" to be me or mine OR my neighbours. I'm not patrolling my neighbourhood LOOKING for trouble but if I see something happening to my neighbours or someone in the street and it doesn't look right, and someone may die or be seriously injured or have property stolen I'm sure as hell not going to help the perpertrator by calling emergency services and waiting for them to turn up. I don't have access to a gun though, so whatever action I take I have to be prepared that I will ALSO quite possibly suffer injury.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    g under p wrote:
    Yup, EVERYBODY becomes a stranger when the Patriots or Red Sox or Celtics Or Bruins are on. Dem peeps are on their own. :D Lighten up people.

    Peace


    hehe! :D Are you talking baseball, hockey, or football? :D I've got NO CLUE about sports analogies. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    Jeanie wrote:
    hehe! :D Are you talking baseball, hockey, or football? :D I've got NO CLUE about sports analogies. :)

    That's Football, Baseball, Basketball and Hockey and like I said Dem peeps are on their own when I'm watching.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    catefrances wrote:
    within his rights to kill burglars? what a great place to live. :(
    According to the report that leads this topic, the woman who killed to live was living in a high crime neighborhood.

    According to what I've read of the instance of the man defending his neighbor's well-being, he gave a warning to the suspects to stop before firing upon the suspects.

    I don't see either scenario as "great places to live" at those moments, however, I stand by the rights of those citizens who made a stand with the use of the available tools of defense in that moment.
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  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    g under p wrote:
    That's Football, Baseball, Basketball and Hockey and like I said Dem peeps are on their own when I'm watching.

    Peace

    So it's Patriots = footy, Red Sox = baseball (which I knew but all the other names confused me! :D ) Celtics = Basketball and Bruins = Hockey?

    Of course I'll have forgotten that again soon enough. :o

    It's funny how things happen, some we respond to and some things we don't. That's why I think it's not just about someone's actions or inaction, it's also about the circumstances and the universe itself. Energy or something?
    I'm sure there have been times when things have gone on that I would have no clue about because I was otherwise engrossed in something so I just didn't notice. But then it probably wasn't sport! ;):D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Hell, may as well order cabbage patch dolls for all of us, Jeanie, we need that warm fuzzy fake ownership of humanity feeling.
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